LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:55 pmIn an effort to maximize shareholder value, US companies set up Chinese manufacturing abroad. China didn’t steal US jobs. We sent them there like we did with Japan, Korea and Mexico. I recall a small parts manufacturer telling me that he could not compete in 2002 because the competition was bringing in parts from China and selling them in 2002, at his company’s 1958 price....we were happy to save $1.00 on a pack of underwear from Walmart via China. I used to argue that it was short sighted and that we need to consider the impact on the US citizens as a whole instead of a sliver of it. Like, Japan and Korea, China is moving forward. TPP was a strategic effort to combat China. Too bad Obama signed off on it. We would love to have that kind of deal right about now.

You were saying the same thing as Perot & Buchanan in the '90's, ...& Trump now.

You don't need multi-party deals like TPP to have trade agreements.
Every country takes protectionist measures.
In bi-literal deals, you can be more specific in preseving vital sectors, while balancing the overall playing field.

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:21 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:55 pmIn an effort to maximize shareholder value, US companies set up Chinese manufacturing abroad. China didn’t steal US jobs. We sent them there like we did with Japan, Korea and Mexico. I recall a small parts manufacturer telling me that he could not compete in 2002 because the competition was bringing in parts from China and selling them in 2002, at his company’s 1958 price....we were happy to save $1.00 on a pack of underwear from Walmart via China. I used to argue that it was short sighted and that we need to consider the impact on the US citizens as a whole instead of a sliver of it. Like, Japan and Korea, China is moving forward. TPP was a strategic effort to combat China. Too bad Obama signed off on it. We would love to have that kind of deal right about now.

You were saying the same thing as Perot & Buchanan in the '90's, ...& Trump now.

You don't need multi-party deals like TPP to have trade agreements.
Every country takes protectionist measures.
In bi-literal deals, you can be more specific in preseving vital sectors, while balancing the overall playing field.

Perot and Buchanan were wrong then, and Trump was never right on this.
Remember all the whining he did about Japan?

And no, bilateral trade agreements are just plain dumb policy, terribly inefficient ways to set up trading allies.
Of course, The Trump Administration has also gutted the diplomatic corps and the trade negotiation capabilities of the US.
They're grossly understaffed and flat out manned, as well the various players don't trust Trump even the slightest bit.

So, they bide their time, set up other regional trade alliances, establish other supply chains, and realize that they don't really need America as much as they thought.

Brilliant policy, Salty.
But, hey, it's Trump so of course you support him.
After all "trade wars are easy to win" and if not, "I know better than the generals"...

...& you wonder why Trump is President. Take heart -- the Mooch is gonna rescue the GOP for you.

The next round of tariffs on Chinese goods could knock American households for $1,000 per year, according to a new analysis from JP Morgan.

Don't sweat it, folks, remember "China pays these tariffs", right?


Right.

(China's gonna cave any day now, I just feel it)




https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/chi ... -jp-morgan

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:21 pm The next round of tariffs on Chinese goods could knock American households for $1,000 per year, according to a new analysis from JP Morgan.

Don't sweat it, folks, remember "China pays these tariffs", right?


Right.

(China's gonna cave any day now, I just feel it)




https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/chi ... -jp-morgan

Glad that came from Fox otherwise a colleague won’t believe it. He believes the “Republican” economists use republicans economic theory. Must be that Republican Macro Economics course I missed.....Honey there goes all the tax reform money.

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:34 pm ...& you wonder why Trump is President. Take heart -- the Mooch is gonna rescue the GOP for you.

I'm not counting on anything from that slime ball.
He was a fast talking slime when he was supporting Trump, he's a fast talking slime now that he's not.
Funny how he's fallen so far out of favor so fast with the Trumpists, though.
One after another the former Trump loyalists get the lash.

On why Trump won the election, do we really have to go over it again?
He won by a few hundred thousand votes in a few key states against an abysmally bad candidate.

Was it the Russian involvement?
Was it that she was such an easy target?
Was it because Bernie bloodied her so badly that it hurt her turn out?
Was it because Trump had the knuckleheads snowed?
Were they not ready for a woman, or at least not that one?
Was it because the racists and misogynists who usually didn't bother to vote turned out in 2016 for 'my man Trump?

We really don't know.

But none of that makes Trump or Perot or Buchanan more than totally wrong on trade.
sheesh, the Chinese are paying the tariffs...so very stupid...or worse, so very dishonest.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:40 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:34 pm ...& you wonder why Trump is President.

On why Trump won the election, do we really have to go over it again?
He won by a few hundred thousand votes in a few key states against an abysmally bad candidate.

Was it the Russian involvement?
Was it that she was such an easy target?
Was it because Bernie bloodied her so badly that it hurt her turn out?
Was it because Trump had the knuckleheads snowed?
Were they not ready for a woman, or at least not that one?
Was it because the racists and misogynists who usually didn't bother to vote turned out in 2016 for 'my man Trump?

We really don't know.

The answers to your questions can be found herein.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:52 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:40 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:34 pm ...& you wonder why Trump is President.

On why Trump won the election, do we really have to go over it again?
He won by a few hundred thousand votes in a few key states against an abysmally bad candidate.

Was it the Russian involvement?
Was it that she was such an easy target?
Was it because Bernie bloodied her so badly that it hurt her turn out?
Was it because Trump had the knuckleheads snowed?
Were they not ready for a woman, or at least not that one?
Was it because the racists and misogynists who usually didn't bother to vote turned out in 2016 for 'my man Trump?

We really don't know.

The answers to your questions can be found herein.

So typical of you, Salty.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:07 am

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:52 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:40 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:34 pm ...& you wonder why Trump is President.

On why Trump won the election, do we really have to go over it again?
He won by a few hundred thousand votes in a few key states against an abysmally bad candidate.

Was it the Russian involvement?
Was it that she was such an easy target?
Was it because Bernie bloodied her so badly that it hurt her turn out?
Was it because Trump had the knuckleheads snowed?
Were they not ready for a woman, or at least not that one?
Was it because the racists and misogynists who usually didn't bother to vote turned out in 2016 for 'my man Trump?

We really don't know.

The answers to your questions can be found herein.

So typical of you, Salty.

As I grasp this argument, Misfud talking to Papadopolous (under suspicious circumstances, and not at high levels in the Trump campaign) is really a couple of guys with no real clout trying to get a line open. And neither had the credentials to make that happen.

It failed, so THEREFORE the 'Russia was helping Trump" narrative is baseless.

As I see it, these are clever people who are out of the loop trying to advance their status by arranging a deal that was already in place.

Everyone, through Moeller through the guys on this page and down to me see that Trumkp had been a launderer of Russian cash and angling hard to get to Putin. That's just indisputable in my mind. For gosh sakes, he was trying to get a Trump Tower deal done in Moscow and knew the decider in that deal.

The Trumpista argument now seems to be that there was insufficient evidence that Trump was in bed with the Russians, so the inquiry should never have happened, so THEREFORE the damning evidence we have is off the books, technically......right?

Great theory. Where's the proof ?
Who in Trump's organization was Popadop working with to establish a channel for the Trump Tower deal ?

Why even work through an unknown outsider like Popadop.
Trump's inner circle already had Russian business contacts they could work through.
Isn't that what Cohen was doing ?

More likely, Trump Tower was a backup plan, in case they lost the election.
When they won, Cohen kept it going for the business & family, for after Trump's time in office.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:54 pm Great theory. Where's the proof ?
Who in Trump's organization was Popadop working with to establish a channel for the Trump Tower deal ?

He wasn't. That's my whole point.

old salt wrote: Why even work through an unknown outsider like Popadop.

I an speculating that this was a couple of clever outsiders trying to arrange a way to duplicate the arrangements that were already in place. I concede that Trump didn't need his contacts, so he didn't request or endorse them. But the fact that Popadop got the heisman doesn't prove that Trump wasn't in bed with Russian interests, does it?

old salt wrote: Trump's inner circle already had Russian business contacts they could work through.
Isn't that what Cohen was doing ?

Yup. We're on the same page!

old salt wrote:
More likely, Trump Tower was a backup plan, in case they lost the election.
When they won, Cohen kept it going for the business & family, for after Trump's time in office.

Trump tried to gather the people who we now call 'Trumpistas' so he's have them in pocket when he launched the news alternative he wanted.

Then he won. He never expected to win. We all agree on that.

Oops!

Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid. Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 pm Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid.

Yup. These guys were just added because they looked to the hoi polloi like serious scholars. Window dressing. Right?

Old Salt wrote: Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

Yup. So when you post an article that claims that because these guys were jokers we should admit that the whole witch hunt was ill advised, I step up and differ.

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 pm Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid.

Yup. These guys were just added because they looked to the hoi polloi like serious scholars. Window dressing. Right?

Old Salt wrote: Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

Yup. So when you post an article that claims that because these guys were jokers we should admit that the whole witch hunt was ill advised, I step up and differ.

It should not have taken that long to figure out & the investigation should not have been leaked to the media.
It was a pretext for an investigation to damage Trump. The IG's, Durham's & Huber's investigations will determine if there was adequate predicate for the investigation & if it was conducted within DoJ guidelines. You're free to prejudge the outcome. I'll wait for the results of those investigations.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:25 pm

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 pm Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid.

Yup. These guys were just added because they looked to the hoi polloi like serious scholars. Window dressing. Right?

Old Salt wrote: Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

Yup. So when you post an article that claims that because these guys were jokers we should admit that the whole witch hunt was ill advised, I step up and differ.

It should not have taken that long to figure out & the investigation should not have been leaked to the media.
It was a pretext for an investigation to damage Trump. The IG's, Durham's & Huber's investigations will determine if there was adequate predicate for the investigation & if it was conducted within DoJ guidelines. You're free to prejudge the outcome. I'll wait for the results of those investigations.

Glad we're "free to prejudge the outcome".
From your post, sounds like you've done a whole lot of prejudging, with zero basis, so ok.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:49 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:25 pm

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 pm Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid.

Yup. These guys were just added because they looked to the hoi polloi like serious scholars. Window dressing. Right?

Old Salt wrote: Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

Yup. So when you post an article that claims that because these guys were jokers we should admit that the whole witch hunt was ill advised, I step up and differ.

It should not have taken that long to figure out & the investigation should not have been leaked to the media.
It was a pretext for an investigation to damage Trump. The IG's, Durham's & Huber's investigations will determine if there was adequate predicate for the investigation & if it was conducted within DoJ guidelines. You're free to prejudge the outcome. I'll wait for the results of those investigations.

Glad we're "free to prejudge the outcome".
From your post, sounds like you've done a whole lot of prejudging, with zero basis, so ok.

Zero basis ? The Crossfire Hurricane & Mueller investigations are complete. Based on the results of those investigations, it's my judgement that there was insufficient justification to initiate them, then leak them, then undermine a new Presidency, undermine foreign policy & put the nation through this disruption, turmoil & division. I'm happy to wait for the IG & US Arry's Durham & Huber to either confirm or refute my judgement & to provide the answers which have been withheld from us about what our IC & DoJ did to impact the 2016 election & the new Presidency it yielded.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:49 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:25 pm

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 pm Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid.

Yup. These guys were just added because they looked to the hoi polloi like serious scholars. Window dressing. Right?

Old Salt wrote: Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

Yup. So when you post an article that claims that because these guys were jokers we should admit that the whole witch hunt was ill advised, I step up and differ.

It should not have taken that long to figure out & the investigation should not have been leaked to the media.
It was a pretext for an investigation to damage Trump. The IG's, Durham's & Huber's investigations will determine if there was adequate predicate for the investigation & if it was conducted within DoJ guidelines. You're free to prejudge the outcome. I'll wait for the results of those investigations.

Glad we're "free to prejudge the outcome".
From your post, sounds like you've done a whole lot of prejudging, with zero basis, so ok.

Zero basis ? The Crossfire Hurricane & Mueller investigations are complete. Based on the results of those investigations, it's my judgement that there was insufficient justification to initiate them, then leak them, then undermine a new Presidency, undermine foreign policy & put the nation through this disruption, turmoil & division. I'm happy to wait for the IG & US Arry's Durham & Huber to either confirm or refute my judgement & to provide the answers which have been withheld from us about what our IC & DoJ did to impact the 2016 election & the new Presidency it yielded.

hmmm, you castigate folks for "prejudging" but that's sure a lot of "judgement" you're spouting there, Salty.
But, yes, that's clearly your opinion. Based on a very flawed logic, IMO.

The Mueller Report makes clear that the Russian effort was large, extensive and multi-faceted. It made clear that the Trump crew knew that was the case both during the campaign and after the election (yet lied about it over and over again, before and after the election), they didn't report various approaches by the Russians to them, in fact they warmly welcomed the election interference, and even went so far as to provide targeted election messaging and specific polling data, they aligned and amplified the messaging of the Russians and vice versa.

It also makes clear that, contrary to Trump's numerous assurances to the American voters, he and his company were actively engaged in a massive business proposition with the Russians, requiring Putin's approval, deep into the campaign. Lies and more lies.

The Report makes clear that both during the campaign and the transition, the Trump crew were having secret meetings with the Russians...and lying about it.

Of course, they also uncovered other criminal activity of folks like the Campaign Chairman and Deputy Campaign Chairman, including working with Russian proxies.

So, a whole bunch of lies, a considerable amount of witness tampering, and other obstructive activity. Some of which the Mueller Report made clear was prosecutable of Trump himself once he leaves office, though not before.

But according to you and Trump, the whole thing was a hoax. The FBI should never have grown suspicious, shouldn't have investigated the Russians, shouldn't have investigated Trump and his campaign's relationship with the Russians, I suppose should have just said, "well, he won, he's the King".

It appears that Barr agrees with you, the whole 'unitary' power thing. Sure smacks of the authoritarian to me. I'd say exactly the same thing if this was Dem in office (I'm a lifelong R).

But you agree with some of his policies. Hoo boy.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am The Crossfire Hurricane & Mueller investigations are complete. Based on the results of those investigations, it's my judgement that there was insufficient justification to initiate them

So you're doubling down on this "logic" of yours? You think we have a new standard for justice in America. Investigators have to know a suspect is guilty BEFORE they lift a finger and look into things.

You seriously don't get how nuts this idea of yours is? The FBI is supposed to use information from 2018 to decide whether or not to proceed in 2017? Seriously?

I'll help clear the partisan cobwebs: does this mean the FBI should NEVER have looked into Hillary's server and emails? After all: no indictments, right?

So using your idea here: the FBI was corrupt in investigating Hillary, her servers and emails, and derailing her campaign. She was not even indicted, which means, using old salt's logic on how the FBI should operate: this means the FBI abused their power in investigating Hillary in the first place. FBI agents should have been fired, and their pensions forfeited because no charges were made.

You're not making any sense here.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:49 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:25 pm

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:07 pm Trump put Papadop & Carter Page on his advisory panel just because he needed some warm body PhD "subject matter experts" to feed to the media. He never met those 2, or sought their advice. Sam Clovis was their baby sitter & did a commendable job keeping them from acting out their schemes & doing anything even more stupid.

Yup. These guys were just added because they looked to the hoi polloi like serious scholars. Window dressing. Right?

Old Salt wrote: Once their names were in the news, they sought to exploit their presumed access. Big deal artists from all directions made runs at them. No surprise that some were spies (aka informants when they're our spies). Carter Page is so far out there, he still likes Stefan Halper because he'd listen to his disjointed ramblings. I can't believe the FBI took these clowns seriously for so long.

Yup. So when you post an article that claims that because these guys were jokers we should admit that the whole witch hunt was ill advised, I step up and differ.

It should not have taken that long to figure out & the investigation should not have been leaked to the media.
It was a pretext for an investigation to damage Trump. The IG's, Durham's & Huber's investigations will determine if there was adequate predicate for the investigation & if it was conducted within DoJ guidelines. You're free to prejudge the outcome. I'll wait for the results of those investigations.

Glad we're "free to prejudge the outcome".
From your post, sounds like you've done a whole lot of prejudging, with zero basis, so ok.

Zero basis ? The Crossfire Hurricane & Mueller investigations are complete. Based on the results of those investigations, it's my judgement that there was insufficient justification to initiate them, then leak them, then undermine a new Presidency, undermine foreign policy & put the nation through this disruption, turmoil & division. I'm happy to wait for the IG & US Arry's Durham & Huber to either confirm or refute my judgement & to provide the answers which have been withheld from us about what our IC & DoJ did to impact the 2016 election & the new Presidency it yielded.

So you have read the fully un-redacted report?

I've read all of Pt I that's been released.