LaxPower Back-Up Stick

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:15 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/32 ... egislation
if the naacp still has any juice, looks like we may see segregated teams again! never woulda thunk.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:09 pm https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/32 ... egislation
if the naacp still has any juice, looks like we may see segregated teams again! never woulda thunk.

I was gonna inquire why the NAACP cares so much about abortions, but never mind, the need to combine woke grievances from the left is a 24/7 occupation.

In any event, were every professional sports team to leave Texas (would really miss the WNBA… ), I don’t think one Texan would care. Sports talent, seeing their incomes drop, on the other hand would.

It has to be so exhausting trying to know what to care about.

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:02 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:09 pm https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/32 ... egislation
if the naacp still has any juice, looks like we may see segregated teams again! never woulda thunk.

I was gonna inquire why the NAACP cares so much about abortions, but never mind, the need to combine woke grievances from the left is a 24/7 occupation.

In any event, were every professional sports team to leave Texas (would really miss the WNBA… ), I don’t think one Texan would care. Sports talent, seeing their incomes drop, on the other hand would.

It has to be so exhausting trying to know what to care about.

So, no Texan is going to care if the Cowboys aren't in Dallas anymore?
Right.......

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:02 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:09 pm https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/32 ... egislation
if the naacp still has any juice, looks like we may see segregated teams again! never woulda thunk.

I was gonna inquire why the NAACP cares so much about abortions, but never mind

Yes, play dumb, and act like you're too stupid to understand that the TX abortion law only applies to the poor.

Carroll81 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:31 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:02 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:09 pm https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/32 ... egislation
if the naacp still has any juice, looks like we may see segregated teams again! never woulda thunk.

I was gonna inquire why the NAACP cares so much about abortions, but never mind, the need to combine woke grievances from the left is a 24/7 occupation.

In any event, were every professional sports team to leave Texas (would really miss the WNBA… ), I don’t think one Texan would care. Sports talent, seeing their incomes drop, on the other hand would.

It has to be so exhausting trying to know what to care about.

So, no Texan is going to care if the Cowboys aren't in Dallas anymore?
Right.......

I mean get rid of the Baylor athletics program and that solves the rape and incest problem to their abortion laws...a double win for the Lt Gov of their state! (A talk show host and UMBC grad...)

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 pm

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:15 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Newsworthy and a milestone in court as 08DEC approaches: Biden admin barred from firing unvaccinated employees after DC judge issues injunction

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... injunction

I wonder where this all will land, with Florida and police unions also suing. Any attorneys want to take a stab at guessing?

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:50 am Newsworthy and a milestone in court as 08DEC approaches: Biden admin barred from firing unvaccinated employees after DC judge issues injunction

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... injunction

I wonder where this all will land, with Florida and police unions also suing. Any attorneys want to take a stab at guessing?

All those hardcore republicans suing and using the courts like the weak liberals eh youth?

We’re talking about principalities here!

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:07 am

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 pm

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:15 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I hadn't heard the "vaxxed, but don't want the required boosters" excuse...are boosters required or are they just projecting that eventual likelihood? and why would someone be vaccinated but refuse to boost at some future point? Seems a bit screwy.

But then refusing to get vaxxed is pretty screwy too.

So, if your company fires those who can't go on bases rather than take penalties, what would the repercussion be on the contracts that would be under filled? Lost profits on those employees? Lost bonuses for on time completed projects? Or total contract dissolution? Seems to me that the latter would be avoidable through negotiation.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:50 am Newsworthy and a milestone in court as 08DEC approaches: Biden admin barred from firing unvaccinated employees after DC judge issues injunction

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- ... injunction

I wonder where this all will land, with Florida and police unions also suing. Any attorneys want to take a stab at guessing?

Actually, if I read correctly, barred from terminating individuals while an appeal is pending on religious exemptions. If no such exemption was claimed and no such appeal is pending, then terminated. Which means merely delaying the termination to get though some procedural process. Still need to win the appeal on the religious exemption, which is going to be unlikely for those not otherwise granted such. My understanding is that if you have a legit religious claim, and file it appropriately, exemptions are granted pretty easily...but there could be some mistakes (eg the filing wasn't supported properly, but should/could have been) and this injunction protects against such.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:08 am

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:07 am

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 pm

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:15 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I hadn't heard the "vaxxed, but don't want the required boosters" excuse...are boosters required or are they just projecting that eventual likelihood? and why would someone be vaccinated but refuse to boost at some future point? Seems a bit screwy.

But then refusing to get vaxxed is pretty screwy too.

So, if your company fires those who can't go on bases rather than take penalties, what would the repercussion be on the contracts that would be under filled? Lost profits on those employees? Lost bonuses for on time completed projects? Or total contract dissolution? Seems to me that the latter would be avoidable through negotiation.

Booster complaint came from someone who is vaxxed, but thinks the gov and hr’s even asking is a personal infringement. Another got vaaxed early on and the wife had menstrual abnormalities and isn’t comfortable with more in their system, without Studies.

So we have to be 100% “compliant” as a company. That may or may not be attainable. Medical and religious exemptions may get us there. Maybe. And we are being very liberal with our interpretation of these. As I said, some are lawyering up already.

If we get holdouts and don’t certify, we will be fined daily per employee. Essentially the gov telling us to fire these employees or pay an insane per day, per person fee.

So say we are now at 100 % compliant. If we don’t have personnel who can actually get on a locked-down base and perform the jobs needed, we are in breech of contract.

You can be compliant with the .gov’s mandate. That is fine for some who don’t have to get on base. Those that need to get on base need to have vax paperwork. Not just a company certification.

If it’s a critical task contract, which many of ours are, we can lose the contract immediately. Others won’t be renewed when the PoP ends. But for both, the result is a lost contract and permanent record blemished. (CPARS). Both NOT good for future work.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:41 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:08 am

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:07 am

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 pm

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:15 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I hadn't heard the "vaxxed, but don't want the required boosters" excuse...are boosters required or are they just projecting that eventual likelihood? and why would someone be vaccinated but refuse to boost at some future point? Seems a bit screwy.

But then refusing to get vaxxed is pretty screwy too.

So, if your company fires those who can't go on bases rather than take penalties, what would the repercussion be on the contracts that would be under filled? Lost profits on those employees? Lost bonuses for on time completed projects? Or total contract dissolution? Seems to me that the latter would be avoidable through negotiation.

Booster complaint came from someone who is vaxxed, but thinks the gov and hr’s even asking is a personal infringement. Another got vaaxed early on and the wife had menstrual abnormalities and isn’t comfortable with more in their system, without Studies.

So we have to be 100% “compliant” as a company. That may or may not be attainable. Medical and religious exemptions may get us there. Maybe. And we are being very liberal with our interpretation of these. As I said, some are lawyering up already.

If we get holdouts and don’t certify, we will be fined daily per employee. Essentially the gov telling us to fire these employees or pay an insane per day, per person fee.

So say we are now at 100 % compliant. If we don’t have personnel who can actually get on a locked-down base and perform the jobs needed, we are in breech of contract.

You can be compliant with the .gov’s mandate. That is fine for some who don’t have to get on base. Those that need to get on base need to have vax paperwork. Not just a company certification.

If it’s a critical task contract, which many of ours are, we can lose the contract immediately. Others won’t be renewed when the PoP ends. But for both, the result is a lost contract and permanent record blemished. (CPARS). Both NOT good for future work.

Understood.
Seems to me that I'd be meeting with the contracts officers proactively to manage through any potential shortfalls. It's not as if the government actually wants to lose you as a contractor, right? You said they don't have a viable alternative, so they are likely to be able to give some slack on performance for a period of time. But not slack on vaccinations.

Try like heck to not have any shortfalls...meet with every darn one of those essential personnel as many times as necessary, with very qualified public health people helping them through the science, but also prepare for the possibility some will be intransigent. Hopefully only a few, but some.

My brother in law works for a contractor, on base, in the most highly secure level facility-type, and at least to my sense, vaccinations have already been required to be inside. I don't know about "on-base" but masks have long been required as well, though in private offices they can come off I think he said.

This is work that you really don't want delayed either. In the very early days, they reduced density by on a day, off a day scheduling.

As he's now 65 and Type II diabetic, a safer environment is important.

Of course, if a contract can be filled by a company that has its full complement of resources ready and able to go, and your company doesn't, that's another matter...but seems to me a lot of companies are going to be straining. The good news, so far, is that very few people actually refuse to get vaccinated, share that status, when it comes to final nut-cutting time. They may come in after the deadlines, but almost everyone ultimately gets there.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with NY and those unions. Frankly, I hope the mayor sticks to his guns and the intransigent go on unpaid leave for awhile, but most come back in due course. Caving to the disinformation would create a real mess of a ripple effect.

The joke goes something like this: A ferocious storm sweeps through a town, and in the aftermath, a man clambers onto his roof to escape the floodwaters. As he sits there, someone in a canoe comes by and offers to carry him to safety. “No, thanks,” the man replies. “God will save me.” The man paddles off, and the waters continue to rise. Shortly afterward, someone in a boat pulls up to offer help. “No, thank you,” the man says again. “God will deliver me.” The waters rise higher. Finally, a Coast Guard helicopter appears; someone with a megaphone offers to drop a ladder. “No, thank you,” the man says for a final time. “I prayed for God to save me.” The helicopter flies off, the waters engulf the roof, and the man drowns. When the man arrives in heaven, he asks in confusion, “What happened, God? Why didn’t you rescue me?” God replies, “I sent you a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?”

If you ever regularly attended a Christian church, you’ve probably heard a version of this story, sometimes called the “parable of the drowning man.” But in the last year, a new version has cropped up. In it, a man ignores advice to wear masks, avoid large gatherings, and get the COVID vaccine. When he dies after contracting the virus at a party, God tells the confused Christian that he gave public health officials the intelligence to develop the vaccine and to educate the public about social distancing, hand-washing, masks, and other measures. “I imparted wisdom to your leaders, who realized the dangers of COVID-19 and how humans could protect themselves,” this version of God says in a Florida newspaper column in July, in one of a number of similar editorials in local and regional newspapers. “Many of your leaders made sure they communicated to everyone. What more could I have done?”

..

Quite possibly, putting US safety in jeopardy.

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:17 am

The joke goes something like this: A ferocious storm sweeps through a town, and in the aftermath, a man clambers onto his roof to escape the floodwaters. As he sits there, someone in a canoe comes by and offers to carry him to safety. “No, thanks,” the man replies. “God will save me.” The man paddles off, and the waters continue to rise. Shortly afterward, someone in a boat pulls up to offer help. “No, thank you,” the man says again. “God will deliver me.” The waters rise higher. Finally, a Coast Guard helicopter appears; someone with a megaphone offers to drop a ladder. “No, thank you,” the man says for a final time. “I prayed for God to save me.” The helicopter flies off, the waters engulf the roof, and the man drowns. When the man arrives in heaven, he asks in confusion, “What happened, God? Why didn’t you rescue me?” God replies, “I sent you a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?”

If you ever regularly attended a Christian church, you’ve probably heard a version of this story, sometimes called the “parable of the drowning man.” But in the last year, a new version has cropped up. In it, a man ignores advice to wear masks, avoid large gatherings, and get the COVID vaccine. When he dies after contracting the virus at a party, God tells the confused Christian that he gave public health officials the intelligence to develop the vaccine and to educate the public about social distancing, hand-washing, masks, and other measures. “I imparted wisdom to your leaders, who realized the dangers of COVID-19 and how humans could protect themselves,” this version of God says in a Florida newspaper column in July, in one of a number of similar editorials in local and regional newspapers. “Many of your leaders made sure they communicated to everyone. What more could I have done?”

..

I can’t imagine being a man who remains absolutely incurious about authorities who tell him ‘two weeks to slow the spread’ to ‘as many boosters as necessary’. The same man will obediently obey anything he’s told to do, from wearing a mask to being jabbed dozens of times with unproven vaccines, to much worse….in spite of any and all evidence which calls in to question his beliefs and decisions.

Fortunately this country is made of stronger, smarter people.

Masks, for one tiny instance, are laughable.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:18 am Quite possibly, putting US safety in jeopardy.

Like Covid.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:41 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:08 am

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:07 am

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:01 pm

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:15 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:10 am Moog workers walk out in protest of vaccine mandate
"We're against government coercion"

Primarily a defense contractor, they are required to get vaccinated by December 8 or be fired. Showing a great sense of humor, they state that they’re not against the vaccine, but stand against the government forcing them. I doubt that in the end they’d be willing to give up a good paying job with benefits, though there are always a few willing to do so.

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/mo ... ne-mandate

Our company has the same mandate.
We have those with the company who are vaccinated and unvaccinated that are both fighting the reporting of vaccination status.
Companies will incur a large (~$15k) fine per employee, each day past, for non reporting.

What does reporting entail. Submitting vaccine paperwork? Why would anyone have an issue with reporting vaccination status, at least if vaccinated? I don’t understand that. Didn’t know about the fines. That would certainly make it a slam dunk for companies to terminate those that chose not to adhere.

The gov has given zero guidelines aside from “comply.”

So at this point Reporting up to the government only entails saying that we are _% compliant. Then we pay a fine of each employee, noncompliant, per day.

We guesstimate that At least 1/4 to 1/3 of the employees don’t want the vax. Another portion is actually vaaced but doesn’t want to report because they don’t want required boosters. “where does it end?” Is the phrase heard a few times.

We are allowing both medical and religious exemptions.

But most of our work requires access to a military base, somewhere in the world. So if an employee must be vaccinated to get on base and do their job, and they can’t, they will be fired. Regardless of exemption. And each base is different. Depending on the commander.

We must be 100% compliant by Dec.

So we will likely be firing people. At least a couple employees have already lawyered up. But when you have some of these key personnel matrixed across multiple contracts in our company, we’re screwed. We don’t have any leverage or answers.

We will try to hire replacements. But people with (super random esoteric) experience as, say, former SEALs who are underwater EOD techs …are hard to come by… And the government will not be hiring any competitors. There are none with the capability.

So the jury is still out if our company will be able to survive the mandate. But it’s not looking promising right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I hadn't heard the "vaxxed, but don't want the required boosters" excuse...are boosters required or are they just projecting that eventual likelihood? and why would someone be vaccinated but refuse to boost at some future point? Seems a bit screwy.

But then refusing to get vaxxed is pretty screwy too.

So, if your company fires those who can't go on bases rather than take penalties, what would the repercussion be on the contracts that would be under filled? Lost profits on those employees? Lost bonuses for on time completed projects? Or total contract dissolution? Seems to me that the latter would be avoidable through negotiation.

Booster complaint came from someone who is vaxxed, but thinks the gov and hr’s even asking is a personal infringement. Another got vaaxed early on and the wife had menstrual abnormalities and isn’t comfortable with more in their system, without Studies.

So we have to be 100% “compliant” as a company. That may or may not be attainable. Medical and religious exemptions may get us there. Maybe. And we are being very liberal with our interpretation of these. As I said, some are lawyering up already.

If we get holdouts and don’t certify, we will be fined daily per employee. Essentially the gov telling us to fire these employees or pay an insane per day, per person fee.

So say we are now at 100 % compliant. If we don’t have personnel who can actually get on a locked-down base and perform the jobs needed, we are in breech of contract.

You can be compliant with the .gov’s mandate. That is fine for some who don’t have to get on base. Those that need to get on base need to have vax paperwork. Not just a company certification.

If it’s a critical task contract, which many of ours are, we can lose the contract immediately. Others won’t be renewed when the PoP ends. But for both, the result is a lost contract and permanent record blemished. (CPARS). Both NOT good for future work.

I sure don’t envy what you have to face. Probably overly optimistic, but the easiest way to deal with it may be to have education/counseling sessions to separate science/safety from politics. I can’t think of a sensible reason not to be vaxxed during such a dangerous time.

I waited for my cohort to be called and it was easy and organized to get my two vaccines. Getting those vaccines gave me the security and confidence to socialize within reason. I more than welcome the opportunity to get my booster next week and I don’t care who knows about. I want people to know about it. I’m retired so I don’t have to be around others regularly. If I did then I would definitely want the vaccines.

Foe me there is no logical reason not be vaccinated and make the country a safer place. I just don’t get it, but that’s the world we live in these days.

I agree with you.
But doubt its going to work with at least a handful. Probably more. And unfortunately these are critical task people matrixed across multiple contracts.
Our "expertise" is these people's esoteric experience and background. In addition to a number of religious exemptions filled out, there will be a number who simply wont comply because they don't think it's any of HR's business.
We have a number of people who are against it. They are in the "it's not an approved/studied vaccine" and "it's my God's given right to NOT inject myself with anything" camps.
Not ones you will reason with. Heels are clearly dug in.
HR based out of huntsville AL doesnt quite realize what they are up against. Or how many there will be. They are gonna be surprised when the forms are not submitted by Nov 19th.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:18 pm I agree with you.
But doubt its going to work with at least a handful. Probably more. And unfortunately these are critical task people matrixed across multiple contracts.
Our "expertise" is these people's esoteric experience and background. In addition to a number of religious exemptions filled out, there will be a number who simply wont comply because they don't think it's any of HR's business.
We have a number of people who are against it. They are in the "it's not an approved/studied vaccine" and "it's my God's given right to NOT inject myself with anything" camps.
Not ones you will reason with. Heels are clearly dug in.
HR based out of huntsville AL doesnt quite realize what they are up against. Or how many there will be. They are gonna be surprised when the forms are not submitted by Nov 19th.

Keep sharing as this plays out; will be interesting...but, if you're right, the powers that be need to light a fire under this to come out ok. Nov 19th is short time to deadline!

These folks are gonna have to be canned if intransigent, but it's worth taking a run at getting as many as possible across the finish line. Not all who think they're so adamant with those reasons are unpersuadable.

And the 'it's none of HR's business' are gonna have a rude awakening, and may well hop then...it's not up to HR, it's simply the reality.

And I'd be talking with my contract officer counterparts at the agencies in the meantime, staying in close contact so they know there's 100% effort.