Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Farfromgeneva]

I was a big fan of Dick Allen from reading his ghost written (pretty sure) book called Crash. That guy had it ROUGH. Didn't help himself along the way, but his Philly years in particular sound like a nightmare.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I was a big fan of Dick Allen from reading his ghost written (pretty sure) book called Crash. That guy had it ROUGH. Didn't help himself along the way, but his Philly years in particular sound like a nightmare.

I will look for it.... Chris Herron had it bad. Buying crack outside of the Boston Garden with his uniform on during warmups.

[ardilla secreta]

I was a big fan of Dick Allen from reading his ghost written (pretty sure) book called Crash. That guy had it ROUGH. Didn't help himself along the way, but his Philly years in particular sound like a nightmare.

A Phillies legend that for some reason didn’t want to be treated as less than a human.

[Farfromgeneva]

Big ask for Phillies fans.

Went to the last game at the Vet, in centerfield, makeup date for inter league when it was relatively fresh against the Red Sox. Was a bomb fest, final was like 15-13 and both Heathcliff Slocumb and Byung Hung Kim we’re doing they're thing, which is to say give up leads in spectacular fashion (like when I fall trying to do too much when skiing-unmitigated disaster) and between Phillies and Red Sox fans they are shouting at each other things like “hey f&$kf:(e. I’ll give you my dogsh*t reliever for your hack piece of s&$t!” They were so mad at their guys they basically found common ground and didn’t fight like I was expecting for 4-5 innings.

[njbill]

I was a big fan of Dick Allen from reading his ghost written (pretty sure) book called Crash. That guy had it ROUGH. Didn't help himself along the way, but his Philly years in particular sound like a nightmare.

I am a lifelong Philadelphia sports fan. I still bear the scars of the Phillies collapse in 1964. 6 1/2 games up with 12 to play.

I think ‘64 was Richie (as he was called at the time) Allen’s rookie year. He was a prodigious talent. He had a few racist teammates, Frank Thomas in particular, who made his life really rough, if not a living hell.

He played first base for the Phillies and went through a stretch where he would write messages in the dirt with his spikes during the game. Can’t remember what he wrote, but it was pretty odd.

He swung something like a 42 ounce bat. Hit one or more home runs onto the roof at the old Connie Mack stadium.

He isn’t in the Hall of Fame, but many in Philadelphia think he should be. Not sure how the rules work for old-time players, but I think they are eligible once every 10 years or so. I think he comes up again this year or next. Last time, 10 years ago, he narrowly missed getting voted in. We Philly fan certainly hope he makes it this time.

He worked for the Phillies in community relations or something like that for many years. Not sure if he still does. Very well regarded in the organization.

[Farfromgeneva]

Jim Bunning killed it in 64 didn’t he? Had one huge year. I grew up with a mythology of the 40s and 50s of baseball to which the 60s and 70s seemed weird (born in 1978 but collected cards for years with my dad, everything from tobacco cards up through early 90s but from a collecting perspective it kind of goes downhill after the Ropps monopoly was busted and Donruss and Fleer popped up in 1982). Denny McClain going to jail for gambling, Juan Marichal busying John Roseboro open with a bat for trash talking, the Mets being good in 1969, free agency in the 70s, Clemente and Munson dying, Steinbrenner buying the Yankees, Bucky Dent, etc.

Not sure Allen’s resume is Hall worthy. I struggle with this and metrics make it no fun for me past decade or so. Thought Billy Williams was marginal but thought Andre Dawson and Time Raines should be in. Same w Blylevem and Jack Morris but not Phil Niekro. It’s an art for sure.

[youthathletics]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

[Farfromgeneva]

There’s probably another thread for this but since I helped take us down a pre Ken Griffey baseball path I happen to have a boatload of memorbilia between what I had from myself + my dad dying and now bringing whatever I had left at my mothers house. Lot of cool stuff, surely can’t keep it all but don’t want to sell it or whatnot so if people would be interested in anything feel free to PM me and inquire. Admittedly I’m a mess, left my mothers hosue with a busted toilet pipe and even though it’s probably fine have this paranoia they copper will be gone next time I’m up later this summer as I have to do a ton before even selling it so may take a while to work through but happy to share when I can if things would be appreciated by others. For example I somehow had two autographed balls by Ted Williams so gave one to an old friend who a die hard Sox fan and baseball in general even playing in a civil war re-enactment league of 19th century baseball and whatnot or a old Redskins media guide signed by a bunch of players including the Hogs, Riggins and Gibbs, can’t recall if theismann signed it, picked it up way back for like $20-$40 but don’t care about the skins, bears baby!, so have it to a die hard who grew up in Bowie.

But again no inventory list and my life is messy so it could take 6mo for me to send it if I do connect with anyone on this stuff.

[njbill]

Jim Bunning killed it in 64 didn’t he?

. . . .

Not sure Allen’s resume is Hall worthy.

Bunning’s perfect game was on Father’s Day in 1964, 56 years ago tomorrow. I missed watching the game on TV because my dad wanted to go with the family to the swim club in town for Father’s Day. I still distinctly remember them making an announcement over the PA that he had pitched a perfect game. I was crushed that I had missed the game.

Allen not Hall worthy?? Them’s fightin’ words in Philly. The Philly sports writers think he has a good chance this time. Hope so.

I liked Allen, but I was a HUGE Johnny Callison fan. He had a big year in 1964, too. Three run home run to win the All-Star game. Coincidentally, both the All-Star game and Bunning’s perfect game were at Shea Stadium.

[Farfromgeneva]

I understand where the Chairman is coming from. Nigggahh has been deemed an unacceptable and offensive word, but only for some. There's a time and a place for it, and the black community 100 percent calls the shots on that. Black Tommy yells down from his window to the court, "Hey nigggahhs, can I come down and play?" All's good. White Chairman hollars down from a couple of windows over, "Hey niggggaahs, can I come down and play?" All's well? I don't like hearing blacks use it but I do think I get it...still sounds offensive to me though.
Some time back, black guy was sitting on the deck with us at the watering hole, was the only black guy on the deck, were only 6 or 7 people there and we weren't altogether. Black guy had to have said niggahhh forty two times in the first five minutes he was there. I found it really offensive, rough on the ears. Time and place, and it wasn't there. I went over and talked to him, asked if would stop with it as it really made me uncomfortable and I didn't like it at all. Was nothing agressive or hostile about the moment at all. He was pretty receptive and respected what I was saying and he didn't use it anymore. All was well. There is a double standard with this word. Is it offensive, or not? I think that's all the Chairman is saying.

Hey DMac, I remember the Myles Jones thing and am with you. Don’t remember for sure but feel like the initial response/reaction was somebody not happy with you denigrating their guy (as in maybe a duke fan) and threw that up as an offense to win the hueristics with you and then once you defended yourself others piled on a little because it is at least a poor choice of words compared with alternatives like “he looks like a guy who isn’t trying to maximize his potential” or whatnot but the degree of indignity came from a self absorbed place by at least some. I mean I’m sure you know it’s been used plenty as code, hell it was practically codified in Remember the Titans, but didn’t think for a second your intent was anything close to the pejorative use of it.

Then again, aren’t you a Syracuse guy? Could just be the education! Pow! Suck it, we’re getting that Damn Kraus-Simmons back next year for dag nammit sure in 2021!

[DMac]

I understand where the Chairman is coming from. Nigggahh has been deemed an unacceptable and offensive word, but only for some. There's a time and a place for it, and the black community 100 percent calls the shots on that. Black Tommy yells down from his window to the court, "Hey nigggahhs, can I come down and play?" All's good. White Chairman hollars down from a couple of windows over, "Hey niggggaahs, can I come down and play?" All's well? I don't like hearing blacks use it but I do think I get it...still sounds offensive to me though.
Some time back, black guy was sitting on the deck with us at the watering hole, was the only black guy on the deck, were only 6 or 7 people there and we weren't altogether. Black guy had to have said niggahhh forty two times in the first five minutes he was there. I found it really offensive, rough on the ears. Time and place, and it wasn't there. I went over and talked to him, asked if would stop with it as it really made me uncomfortable and I didn't like it at all. Was nothing agressive or hostile about the moment at all. He was pretty receptive and respected what I was saying and he didn't use it anymore. All was well. There is a double standard with this word. Is it offensive, or not? I think that's all the Chairman is saying.

How about this:

For white people - 100% of the time it's offensive

For Black people - case by case

Is that so unreasonable?

I think case by case is pretty much the same as time and place, so no, I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Farfromgeneva]

Agreed. We’re on the same page, Chairmen isn’t but his position is not one I object to either so I personally am moving on from that debate. Do think there’s a conundrum with not wanting others to speak for him and then saying that for all Black people the word is so damaging and hurtful that it should never be uttered by anyone but that’s for him to reconcile.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Policy questions? Please repeat those.

What movement and who do you define as the movement. All people who don’t support the behavior, choices and activities of this president? Black people tired of unnecessarily being murdered by white people with authority that are never held accountable?

The movement is fringe and if you’re suggesting that it’s all dissenters of this president or the “blue wall of silence” then you aren’t serious and what are YOU doing on this forum? Fringe doesn’t deserve the keys types by those that point at this and that birdie to deflect from
REAL problems that CITIZENS of the USA are having.

And the idea that everybody and every group hits it’s target means that all of Wall Street isn’t serious because they have never since Buttonwood hit and stood at equilibrium pricing. Even by definition the word movement itself means looking to change something. Doesn’t mean it is the Platonic essence of the idea. That’s ludicrous.

i think that's the problem- the movement- whatever that is- is amorphous. part of the battle cry is, if youre not doing anything, youre at fault (see the JB quote). if im going to blamed for society's ills centuries ago, i need to know what im being blamed for.

Someone else replied on this but I would be similar in that it seems like shadenfrued on your part, happens in cases to all of us.

Again, I see the modern world expectation as simply full on empathy. Not defending indefensible and twisting every piece of information to support a guy getting shot in the back, choked to death or their neck snapped and then having little to no consequence and it happen again (and again). Just serious empathy.

As for the statues, the long term defense of indefensible clear cut ones, the insistence in many places, significantly in one region of the country, has produced this more extreme response, but not only the gross defenses of it, but the utter silence and lack of empathy from a lot of decent people has contributed greatly to this outcome today. If you don’t see that then your on a side that’s going to take generations to come to agreement on.

I get it. If I was on a college campus right now I’d probably be punching douchy hipsters out by the quad. Grew up in a world personally where “you tell the fu*%inf offense what your scheme is, out execute and jam the ball back up there a**”. None of this over the top, bend over backwards stuff. What I think it seems you are so vehemently rejecting is the modern, millenial version of the middle class white women (or guy but in my life it always seemed like it was the nice housewives) who claim to like Black people like Bill Cosby, Jesse Jackson and OJ (who once claimed to not be black) and say it’s a shame when horrors were still occurring and apologetic but not really helping that group get to a better place in our country. Just talk.

But the extreme, jerky comments and binary, nuance lacing notes I’m quoting here aren’t serious and don’t appear to care if black folks get any further along from this state we’re in now.

why tell me what im thinking? for the record- it's not schadenfreude. i would know what im thinking better than you would know what im thinking.

you also tried to tell me grant didnt have a slave. because we werent there. (also wrong about sarcasm)

do you equate silence/inaction with guilt in the current movement?

we've painted ourselves into a corner; an impossible standard. it's a paradox; we are told people can never possibly understand what people of another color are experiencing. yet, we are now also told that inaction is to blame. and so the only answer is to the toe the line- help without really understanding. empathize, but don't because you can't.

thanks for discussing.

Wrong place to bold, I said "seems like it is..." not that it is and the other part I wrote was intended to point out that as a cohort we've done that, not everyone, not what is stated. Re-read it - "the utter lack of empathy from a lot of decent people has contributed..." Nowhere in there did I say "YOUR utter lack of empathy". Would you agree across the country in the last 40-50yrs this is too broadly true? I literally stated that many have, not that you have.

I never told you Grant didn't have a slave. That's completely untrue. And if my fat fingers on a phone and spellcheck put that up, point it out and I'll correct it, but I'm fairly certain you're either confusing someone elses post for mine or seriously misreading something. I did suggest that it was inappropriate to include "possible rapist" in describing Jefferson. There's a record of what's what, obviously winners tell the story and no story is complete, but there's not enough to suggest this is true unless you can point me to historical evidence of this.

I don't understand your silence question at all. Maybe I'm obtuse. If responding to what I wrote, what I am saying is that the over the top, perhaps violent and militant reaction were getting now across the country is partly a function of decades of silence and inaction to gross miscarriages of justice and human rights to black people and/or a lack of accountability after the fact. Not the only reason, but it's a meaningful contribution to where we are at today. I then think Antifa and mustache wearing hipsters are the modern version of 60s hippies, glorified by the boomers, but the reality boots on the ground was very different. My dad used to joke that he's all for peace, love and folk music, but that this was a tiny part of what the hippie culture was and most were dirty, reckless and selfish kids excusing crappy behavior with the movement. Sound familiar?

But I do believe we can never understand what a black person goes through. Best we can do is empathy and speaking up against clear injustice, but that standard doesn't seem to be valued by some including here. It's funny how you mention "my guy" but it sure seems like MAGA/QAnon/OAN lovers (distinguished from Republicans, Trump isn't a Republican and many of his followers worldview is not Republican, I haven't handed the party and run off from them yet, holding my ground, for now) in general are far more all-in than Democrats. I would suggest the Hopkins roster sized primaries this and last year demonstrate that. Just the "winner" (Biden) isn't as divisive as Trump was when he beat a weak field in 2015-2016.

sure but if that's the needle to thread- then you should be able to see how it implies that we are all responsible to do something now.

fine about grant but what then did you mean by: "I don’t think I can pretend to know what he is, not should anyone else, beyond the evidence we have in hand." if you think hemings meaningfully consented to jefferson's passes, then under today's rubric, maybe you just disagree with how today's mob thinks about sexuality.

im not interested in less-worse. im concerned with right & wrong.

[Peter Brown]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

[MDlaxfan76]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

I'm not a Democrat, so perhaps your typical partisan stuff isn't applying to me, but no, it's just not clearly related to the topic of the thread.

We need to know far more about who shot whom and why before it becomes particularly relevant.
That said, because it was in that area, folks are paying attention to it.

Was it some leftist shooting someone not fully woke?
Or was it a boogaloo type creating trouble?
Or just someone PO'd about someone making the moves on his woman?

Once we know more, it'll be worth discussion.
Until then, we'll just need to stay tuned.

[6ftstick]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

I'm not a Democrat, so perhaps your typical partisan stuff isn't applying to me, but no, it's just not clearly related to the topic of the thread.

We need to know far more about who shot whom and why before it becomes particularly relevant.
That said, because it was in that area, folks are paying attention to it.

Was it some leftist shooting someone not fully woke?
Or was it a boogaloo type creating trouble?
Or just someone PO'd about someone making the moves on his woman?

Once we know more, it'll be worth discussion.
Until then, we'll just need to stay tuned.

Ah so black lives only matter based on the scenario.

[Peter Brown]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

I'm not a Democrat, so perhaps your typical partisan stuff isn't applying to me, but no, it's just not clearly related to the topic of the thread.

We need to know far more about who shot whom and why before it becomes particularly relevant.
That said, because it was in that area, folks are paying attention to it.

Was it some leftist shooting someone not fully woke?
Or was it a boogaloo type creating trouble?
Or just someone PO'd about someone making the moves on his woman?

Once we know more, it'll be worth discussion.
Until then, we'll just need to stay tuned.

Your hesitation to rush to conclusions is admirable. It’s interesting you don’t utilize that same skill when it comes to events which possible shed a harsh light on Republicans. Why just yesterday I thought you said Desantis had blood on his hands for beach something something. The day of the beach being open. And still, the scoreboard shows 32,900 deaths in New York, and ummmm, 3.200 in Florida. Would’ve been consistent for you to have hesitated then. But alas, Republican bad, Democrat good, right?

[Peter Brown]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

I'm not a Democrat, so perhaps your typical partisan stuff isn't applying to me, but no, it's just not clearly related to the topic of the thread.

We need to know far more about who shot whom and why before it becomes particularly relevant.
That said, because it was in that area, folks are paying attention to it.

Was it some leftist shooting someone not fully woke?
Or was it a boogaloo type creating trouble?
Or just someone PO'd about someone making the moves on his woman?

Once we know more, it'll be worth discussion.
Until then, we'll just need to stay tuned.

Ah so black lives only matter based on the scenario.

There seems to be a pattern here.

[MDlaxfan76]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

I'm not a Democrat, so perhaps your typical partisan stuff isn't applying to me, but no, it's just not clearly related to the topic of the thread.

We need to know far more about who shot whom and why before it becomes particularly relevant.
That said, because it was in that area, folks are paying attention to it.

Was it some leftist shooting someone not fully woke?
Or was it a boogaloo type creating trouble?
Or just someone PO'd about someone making the moves on his woman?

Once we know more, it'll be worth discussion.
Until then, we'll just need to stay tuned.

Ah so black lives only matter based on the scenario.

There seems to be a pattern here.

Indeed, one of the more stupid, Trumpist posts of the past week. A real 'pattern'.

[MDlaxfan76]

2 shot, 1 dead in CHAZ. Is the mayor at fault?

You’ll notice no Democrats here react to this post.

Which is a tell on their real lack of concern for the rights of individuals.

I'm not a Democrat, so perhaps your typical partisan stuff isn't applying to me, but no, it's just not clearly related to the topic of the thread.

We need to know far more about who shot whom and why before it becomes particularly relevant.
That said, because it was in that area, folks are paying attention to it.

Was it some leftist shooting someone not fully woke?
Or was it a boogaloo type creating trouble?
Or just someone PO'd about someone making the moves on his woman?

Once we know more, it'll be worth discussion.
Until then, we'll just need to stay tuned.

Your hesitation to rush to conclusions is admirable. It’s interesting you don’t utilize that same skill when it comes to events which possible shed a harsh light on Republicans. Why just yesterday I thought you said Desantis had blood on his hands for beach something something. The day of the beach being open. And still, the scoreboard shows 32,900 deaths in New York, and ummmm, 3.200 in Florida. Would’ve been consistent for you to have hesitated then. But alas, Republican bad, Democrat good, right?

I don't know about 'yesterday', but I'll stand by the critique of not shutting down Spring Break. Those kids returned home to other states, and we're seeing spread thereafter across the country. Was that caused by those kids? We don't know, because we had such poor testing at that point, no tracing whatsoever. But highly probable.

It's a truly cynical comparison between NY and Florida, but go ahead and live in your safe bubble PB.