Trump's Russian Collusion

[Chips O'Toole]

What precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ?

What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ?

Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?

Watch the NBC interview. He told them a counter-intel investigation had been opened. Obviously it was after Comey was fired, or it would have been Comey telling them. Are you rearranging deck chairs again?

Read the article by McCarthy I linked. If Trump was named as a target, it had to be a criminal investigation, which McCabe opened (for obstruction) when Comey was fired.

"It had to be a criminal investigation" sounds like a legal conclusion. Do you any authority other than McCarthy's opinion on that?

[old salt]

The FBI didn't. McCabe did.

You're going strictly with McCabe's version of events, from his own (CYA) perspective.
You have no idea what Wray's been doing since he took over (& fired McCabe).
...& Rosenstein's still on the job.
You think they haven't been briefing Congress.
They just haven't been leaking like McCabe & Comey did.

You lost me. You think McCabe is going to go on 60 Minutes, and tell the world that he met with both sides of the aisle about opening an investigation----and he's lying? Seriously?

Great. So where are the denials that this happened? There aren't any.

I don't care what Wray is doing. You're missing my entire point, and I suspect intentionally.

If Congress was told that they were investigating Russia and Trump, the FoxNation's---and yours, if I recall----narrative that the FBI was breaking laws, acting recklessly, and going rogue in their pursuit of Trump is all nonsense.

Now we learn that nope, they told key bipartisans what they were doing. That's a big, big change in the narrative.

And think how stupid it is, from an investigative standpoint---telling a bunch of Republican politicians that you're investigating Russia and possible involvement with the leader of their party. And yet they did it anyway? This changes everything for me. I have to rethink all the criticism leveled against folks that were just doing their doggone jobs.

The laws broken were the leaking of classified information & the leaking that a counter intel investigation was underway (& details of the investigation). All to feed the Trump - Russia collusion narrative in the media & provide partisan talking points & accusations.

The leaking of the fact that Carter Page was the target of surveillance under a FISA warrant was a crime.
it destroyed the guys life, for what ? ...being a pro-Russian doofus.

[old salt]

What precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ?

What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ?

Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?

Watch the NBC interview. He told them a counter-intel investigation had been opened. Obviously it was after Comey was fired, or it would have been Comey telling them. Are you rearranging deck chairs again?

Read the article by McCarthy I linked. If Trump was named as a target, it had to be a criminal investigation, which McCabe opened (for obstruction) when Comey was fired.

"It had to be a criminal investigation" sounds like a legal conclusion. Do you any authority other than McCarthy's opinion on that?

This addresses it tangentially. Focus on the quotes from Baker.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-if-obs ... -bombshell
Apparently it's a big step, with additional predicate requirements, when a counter intel investigation becomes a criminal investigation.
When did that transition occur ? Who had the authority to approve the change ? Who in DoJ was informed & when was Congress (the Gang of 8) informed ? Was McCabe acting on his own or with DoJ concurrence ? You'd think that making the President a target would prompt notification of higher authority. And what about Comey's assurances to Congress that the President was not a target ?

[wahoomurf]

Love the comments about Sessions in McCabe's book.

[foreverlax]

Good lord, Salty, you sure are a Trumpist, through and through.
It's flat out ridiculous the stuff you spout.

That said, seems to me we should all take a deep breath on this particular revelation about the Gang of 8 knowing that the counter-intel investigation had been opened. We don't actually have confirmation that's accurate, just yet.

Speculate away, but let's let the facts play out before claiming one way or the other on this one.

Here's what I think we actually do know (chuck the dossier BS):

1) Trump and his crew were actually trying to do a hugely lucrative deal in Moscow deep into the campaign and were lying about it, then and ever since.

2) Trump's son, son-in-law, and Campaign Chairman took a meeting with Russians knowing it was about receiving dirt on Clinton, and then lied about it repeatedly. Trump dictated part of that lying.

3) Trump told various people, including the Russian ambassador, publicly on TV, and perhaps directly to Rosenstein, that he was firing Comey to stop the investigation into the Russian attempts to influence the election.

4) Helsinki.

There's a lot more that we know, but if that's not alone sufficient to be darn concerned about whether DJT is putting his own interests ahead of those of the USA, I don't know what kind of drugs you're shooting or snorting, but they have to be pretty darn hallucinatory.

I would bet that a Trump gets indicted before a Clinton....and an Obama.

[foreverlax]

What precisely did McCabe tell the Gang of 8 ?

What was the date ? Before or after Comey was fired ?

Did McCabe say tell the Gang of 8 that Trump was the target of a counter intel investigation, or that Trump was the target of a criminal investigation for obstruction &/or espionage ?

Watch the NBC interview. He told them a counter-intel investigation had been opened. Obviously it was after Comey was fired, or it would have been Comey telling them. Are you rearranging deck chairs again?

Read the article by McCarthy I linked. If Trump was named as a target, it had to be a criminal investigation, which McCabe opened (for obstruction) when Comey was fired.

"It had to be a criminal investigation" sounds like a legal conclusion. Do you any authority other than McCarthy's opinion on that?

This addresses it tangentially. Focus on the quotes from Baker.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-if-obs ... -bombshell
Apparently it's a big step, with additional predicate requirements, when a counter intel investigation becomes a criminal investigation.
When did that transition occur ? Who had the authority to approve the change ? Who in DoJ was informed & when was Congress (the Gang of 8) informed ? Was McCabe acting on his own or with DoJ concurrence ? I really doubt that he went Lone Ranger...too much time in that arena to not get the coverage required. You'd think that making the President a target would prompt notification of higher authority. And what about Comey's assurances to Congress that the President was not a target ? Maybe at that time, he wasn't. Mueller comes in and perhaps that changed...maybe he became a target for some other crimes, of a the "process" variety.

Anyone who uses language that is black and white is most likely going to look like a fool....we still have no idea what we don't know and more importantly, what Mueller knows.

[a fan]

The laws broken were the leaking of classified information & the leaking that a counter intel investigation was underway (& details of the investigation). All to feed the Trump - Russia collusion narrative in the media & provide partisan talking points & accusations.

The leaking of the fact that Carter Page was the target of surveillance under a FISA warrant was a crime.
it destroyed the guys life, for what ? ...being a pro-Russian doofus.

You're thrashing around, focusing your attention on blaming someone to blame for leaks, rather than looking at a big picture.

The leaks are now more complicated than ever. These Congressional leaders that McCabe met with---did they have top clearances? If so, did McCabe give this information to them? Because if he did, now you have more potential leakers, and your greatest fear surrounding this whole debacle goes bye-bye. You've ASSUMED it was rogue FBI agents doing the leaking this entire time.

What if you're wrong? Now you're left with: there is no Deep State. The FBI did their job, and all the aspersions you've casted are unwarranted and unfair.

If McCabe is shown to have given this info to Congress, the Deep State is DOA.

[foreverlax]

Gang of 8

1. House Speaker Paul Ryan (R., Wis.),
2. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.)
3. House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R., Calif.)

4. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.);
5. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R., N.C.);
6. Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the top Democrat on the intelligence panel
7. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.); and
8. Rep. Adam Schiff of California, then the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee.

Rep. Jim Jordan denies Andrew McCabe's claim Congressional leaders didn't object to Trump investigation

Based on what?

“I was never informed or I would have objected,” (Jim) Jordan, who was a key member of the House Judiciary Committee at the time, said.

He must be really pissed...he wasn't part of the G8, so who cares what he thinks?

[old salt]

The laws broken were the leaking of classified information & the leaking that a counter intel investigation was underway (& details of the investigation). All to feed the Trump - Russia collusion narrative in the media & provide partisan talking points & accusations.

The leaking of the fact that Carter Page was the target of surveillance under a FISA warrant was a crime.
it destroyed the guys life, for what ? ...being a pro-Russian doofus.

You're thrashing around, focusing your attention on blaming someone to blame for leaks, rather than looking at a big picture.

The leaks are now more complicated than ever. These Congressional leaders that McCabe met with---did they have top clearances? If so, did McCabe give this information to them? Because if he did, now you have more potential leakers, and your greatest fear surrounding this whole debacle goes bye-bye. You've ASSUMED it was rogue FBI agents doing the leaking this entire time.

What if you're wrong? Now you're left with: there is no Deep State. The FBI did their job, and all the aspersions you've casted are unwarranted and unfair.

If McCabe is shown to have given this info to Congress, the Deep State is DOA.

McCade didn't brief Congress until after Comey was fired.
The Deep State did much of their damage before then.
I never assumed FBI agents were leaking, other than Comey & McCabe who've admitted it.
I don't know who was leaking.

The key issue is the mixing of Counter Intel investigations & Criminal Investigations.
When & how the FBI spies on US citizens for intel purposes vs for criminal investigations & when/how the transition occurs, on whose authority, based on what ?
The predicates for initiating each & the powers that are enabled by each are different.

That's what AG Barr is going to have to sort out. What did Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe & their minions do & were they overreaching when doing it.
I'm not thrashing around. You're swallowing innocent Andy's story, hook, line & sinker.

This case illustrates the hazard in vesting both Counter Intel & Criminal Investigations within the DoJ & FBI.
The Brits were wise to keep MI-5 seperate from their law enforcement agencies.

[holmes435]

Will all the Uranium One conspiracy pushers please stand up.

[Trinity]

Whitaker told friends he was at Justice to dive on a grenade for Trump. Because Trump’s innocent. What an idiot. Even Judge Napolitano can’t help Trump now. There’s likely a mountain of evidence he obstructed justice.

[jhu72]

Wait until McCabe has his pension reinstated by what comes after the Trump Crime Family.

[old salt]

Look where the Uranium One processed fuel is going.
Better to have the Russians, rather than US DOE, in the loop ?

http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/550770

The move toward nuclear power falls in line with the Kingdom’s Vision 2030, in which diversification of economy and energy from hydrocarbons is implied.

In 2010, a Saudi royal decree said that the development of atomic energy was essential to meet the Kingdom’s growing requirements for energy. Saudi Arabia is currently in the process of selecting a company for the construction of the first nuclear power plant in the country. There are five finalists from five countries — the US, China, Russia, France and South Korea — that the Kingdom invited last year to bid on a project to build the two units. A preferred bidder in the competitive dialogue is expected to be chosen in 2019.

Rosatom plans to outfit the Saudi nuclear power plant (NPP) project with the world’s first operational Generation 3+ reactor technology, known as the VVER-1200. The reactor is known for the most advanced safety systems, which fully complies with international security standards and post-Fukusima safety requirements.

As a part of its integrated offer, Rosatom is ready to supply the Saudi nuclear power project with nuclear fuel throughout its operational lifetime and ensure decent level of Saudi industry involvement and complex human resource development, in addition to growing public acceptance of nuclear power. Nuclear power plant deployment is always very beneficial and, obviously, it will be so for Kingdom.

“In October 2017, Rosatom and King Abdullah City for Atomic and Renewable Energy signed the Program for Cooperation in the Peaceful Uses of Nuclear Energy. Due to investments into nuclear and based on the international expertise and decades-long innovation experience, Saudi Arabia will profit from the stable, clean and environmentally secure energy source at affordable tariffs,” commented Saeed Al-Shahrani, a Saudi expert in renewable energy.

[Trinity]

Rule 1. Always let the Russians build your nuclear reactors.

How unamused must Mueller be?

It appears Matt Whitaker’s time has expired.

https://oversight.house.gov/news/press- ... efforts-to

[Trinity]

Fox Judge Napolitano: "I haven't seen anything like this before: A sitting President of the United States using his allies in the Congress to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation. This breaks new ground!"

[cradleandshoot]

So let me get this strait... Andy McCabe sits a room with all of these Democrat and Republican big wigs and tosses in a live hand grenade. Tells everybody oh and by the way I have initiated an investigation of the POTUS for this that and the other thing. The stunning response from all these lunkheads is they sit there like bumps on a log and don't respond to the hand grenade McCabe just dropped on the room. I can think of one question that these gang of 8 idiots may have wanted to ask... WHERE IS YOUR PROOF... SHOW US YOUR EVIDENCE... WE NEED TO KNOW RIGHT NOW. If we are to believe what McCabe just said... nobody did that. They all just sat there in stunned silence and did not say a word to him... BULL F***ing Sheepdip.

This gang of 8 may be dumb and stupid but even they are not that dumb and stupid. A situation suddenly arises right in front of your face with implications that will rock the world and you all sit their dumbfounded with your thumbs stuck up your ass and don't ask the man a single damn question about why he would do so. Unless you don't have a freaking brain what McCabe just said makes no sense at all. Since none of these folks are at liberty to discuss what McCabe actually told them you have to go back to the smell test. IMO it does not makes sense so for me I don't think I believe McCabe. The FBI already fired him for lying so his credibility factor is not very impressive.https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/19/crimina ... ccabe.html So was he lying then but telling the truth now? who knows?

[cradleandshoot]

Fox Judge Napolitano: "I haven't seen anything like this before: A sitting President of the United States using his allies in the Congress to interfere with an ongoing criminal investigation. This breaks new ground!"

Is that the same Judge that ggait has told us is such an idiot?

[Trinity]

Yes. Even he can smell the turd. An entire party will fall together.

[Chips O'Toole]

The key issue is the mixing of Counter Intel investigations & Criminal Investigations.

It's a close call, but some might argue that "the key issue" is that the POTUS may be a threat to our national security. A significant sub-topic is that the POTUS's broad constitutional powers make it exceedingly difficult for our law enforcement and intelligence communities to do anything under these unprecedented circumstances without someone nutting up and risking his job, reputation, and pension.

[Trinity]

McCabe is a savage. Man against boys this week. No mercy. Own it.