All things CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

This is an honest question: Would these two individuals have taken Chloroquine Phosphate if the POTUS did not say it was a game changer? Would they have even thought of it?

Frightened, clueless people...it's unfortunate.

The problem is what the MSM and rabid partisans on this board do with a story like this, linking it directly to and mischaracterizing Trump's attempt at optimism. This constant effort to exploit and aggrandize any and all perceived opportunities, IMO, is a far greater problem as compared to anything Trump has said.

Do I think Trump could do a better job of communicating, absolutely!, but I do understand the sentiment under dire circumstances.

It is not mischaracterized. Trump got out over his skis, way out. This was not unforeseeable. Uneducated, under informed people went with his, Trump's gut - "I have a good feeling about this". He didn't kill the one victim but he laid the ground work. Same way a bar tender doesn't kill a drunk driver, but shouldn't have served that last drink. This is not even the first example of this - just the first in the US. 3 Nigerians ODed on medical grade chloroquine a few days after the presidents sales pitch. Nigerian OD report. None of this should surprise any adult.

[RedFromMI]

An Arizona woman who was left in critical condition and whose husband died after they took chloroquine phosphate said, “Don’t believe anything that the president says.”

Yahoo News Feed

Lesson learned the hard way.

They drank fish tank cleaner. Trump did not say to drink this. This is why the media is called Fake News and The Enemy of the People. You’re spreading lies. Typical democrat

Trump did not have to say this - he was promising that medicines used for ages for malaria (even preventive) and lupus would be basically likely miracle drugs with respect to COVID-19. So all sorts of people were trying to get their hands on hydrochloroquine or cloroquine. Thinking they could prevent getting infected with the virus.

That is why it is important for someone like Trump, who clearly does not know medicine (or much science for that matter) to shut up about possible medical treatments and leave that to actual physicians, who have invested a large portion of their lives to learning their craft. (Generally four years of medical school beyond an UG degree, or even masters and then 3 or more years as a resident perfecting their practice before going out on their own).

No one is lying about the fact that Trump says things he should not. And no one is lying about the fact that his remarks get misinterpreted by people who think that somehow Trump knows more than anybody else (he says so all the time)!

It really is sad, however. At least the wife who survived is saying don't do what we did...

[Peter Brown]

In Sydney researchers are developing a blood test that identifies COVID19 antibodies in the blood.This has major implications in the public health tracking of the virus by identifying who was previously infected.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 364acccd0e

This is a good post. Shows technological and medical breakthroughs. The world will be safer after all is said and done here with Corona, because of individuals and teams with the brains and motivation to tackle challenges.

The world always gets better.

[tech37]

This is an honest question: Would these two individuals have taken Chloroquine Phosphate if the POTUS did not say it was a game changer? Would they have even thought of it?

Frightened, clueless people...it's unfortunate.

The problem is what the MSM and rabid partisans on this board do with a story like this, linking it directly to and mischaracterizing Trump's attempt at optimism. This constant effort to exploit and aggrandize any and all perceived opportunities, IMO, is a far greater problem as compared to anything Trump has said.

Do I think Trump could do a better job of communicating, absolutely!, but I do understand the sentiment under dire circumstances.

It is not mischaracterized. Trump got out over his skis, way out. This was not unforeseeable. Uneducated, under informed people went with his, Trump's gut - "I have a good feeling about this". He didn't kill the one victim but he laid the ground work. Same way a bar tender doesn't kill a drunk driver, but shouldn't have served that last drink. This is not even the first example of this - just the first in the US. 3 Nigerians ODed on medical grade chloroquine a few days after the presidents sales pitch. Nigerian OD report. None of this should surprise any adult.

An "adult" would realize an unintended consequence when they see one.

[jhu72]

An Arizona woman who was left in critical condition and whose husband died after they took chloroquine phosphate said, “Don’t believe anything that the president says.”

Yahoo News Feed

Lesson learned the hard way.

They drank fish tank cleaner. Trump did not say to drink this. This is why the media is called Fake News and The Enemy of the People. You’re spreading lies. Typical democrat

You are spreading stupidity just like your hero.

[jhu72]

This is an honest question: Would these two individuals have taken Chloroquine Phosphate if the POTUS did not say it was a game changer? Would they have even thought of it?

Frightened, clueless people...it's unfortunate.

The problem is what the MSM and rabid partisans on this board do with a story like this, linking it directly to and mischaracterizing Trump's attempt at optimism. This constant effort to exploit and aggrandize any and all perceived opportunities, IMO, is a far greater problem as compared to anything Trump has said.

Do I think Trump could do a better job of communicating, absolutely!, but I do understand the sentiment under dire circumstances.

It is not mischaracterized. Trump got out over his skis, way out. This was not unforeseeable. Uneducated, under informed people went with his, Trump's gut - "I have a good feeling about this". He didn't kill the one victim but he laid the ground work. Same way a bar tender doesn't kill a drunk driver, but shouldn't have served that last drink. This is not even the first example of this - just the first in the US. 3 Nigerians ODed on medical grade chloroquine a few days after the presidents sales pitch. Nigerian OD report. None of this should surprise any adult.

An "adult" would realize an unintended result when they see one.

Unintended for sure, just like the bartender. No one wanted it to happen, but it happened and there is a direct line from Trump's mouth to the events.

[CU88]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ot/608638/

Trump Is Inciting a Coronavirus Culture War to Save Himself

The president’s attempt to racialize the coronavirus pandemic is a cover-up of the fact that he trusted false reassurances from Beijing.
Donald Trump had a message for the Chinese government at the beginning of the year: Great job!
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency,” Trump tweeted on January 24. “It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Over the next month, the president repeatedly praised the Chinese government for its handling of the coronavirus, which appears to have first emerged from a wildlife market in the transportation hub of Wuhan, China, late last year. Trump lauded Chinese President Xi Jinping as “strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus,” and emphasized that the U.S. government was “working closely” with China to contain the disease.
For months, Trump himself referred to the illness as “the coronavirus.” In early March, though, several conservative media figures began using Wuhan virus or Chinese virus instead. On March 16, Trump himself began to refer to it as the “Chinese Virus,” prompting commentators to charge that he was racializing the epidemic. In contrast, some early media reports had referred to the illness as “the Wuhan virus,” but most outlets switched to referring to “the coronavirus” not long after it emerged, following the advice of public-health experts concerned about the very possibility of stigma from associating deadly diseases with a particular ethnic group or location. Some conservative outlets subsequently began attacking critics of the president’s change in language as propagandists for the Chinese Communist Party.
Even before Trump’s adoption of Chinese virus, Asian Americans had been facing a wave of discrimination, harassment, and violence in response to the epidemic. The president’s rhetoric did not start this backlash, but the decision to embrace the term Chinese virus reinforced the association between a worldwide pandemic and people of a particular national origin. Legitimizing that link with all the authority of the office of the president of the United States is not just morally abhorrent, but dangerous.
The president’s now-constant use of Chinese virus is the latest example of a conservative phenomenon you might call the racism rope-a-dope (with apologies to the late boxer Muhammad Ali, who coined the latter half of the term to describe his strategy of luring an opponent into wearing himself out). Trump and his acolytes are never more comfortable than when they are defending expressions of bigotry as plain common sense, and accusing their liberal critics of being oversensitive snowflakes who care more about protecting “those people” than they do about you. They seek to reduce any political dispute to this simple equation whenever possible. “I want them to talk about racism every day,” the former Trump adviser Steve Bannon told The American Prospect in 2017. “If the left is focused on race and identity, and we go with economic nationalism, we can crush the Democrats.”
In this instance, though, the gambit served two additional purposes: distracting the public from Trump’s catastrophic mishandling of the coronavirus pandemic, and disguising the fact that Trump’s failures stemmed from his selfishness and fondness for authoritarian leaders, which in turn made him an easy mark for the Chinese government’s disinformation.
Conservatives are fond of telling liberals who accuse the Republican Party of prejudice, “This is how you got Trump,” a retort that is less a rebuttal than an affirmation. Trump understands that overt expressions of prejudice draw condemnation from liberals, which in turn rallies his own base around him. Calling the coronavirus the “Chinese virus” not only informs Trump’s base that foreigners are the culprits, it also offers his supporters the emotional satisfaction of venting fury at liberals for unfairly accusing conservatives of racism. The point is to turn a pandemic that threatens both mass death and the collapse of the American economy into a culture-war argument in which the electorate can be polarized along partisan lines.
Conservatives insist that the Chinese government bears a great deal of responsibility for the outbreak, and that the president is merely holding the CCP accountable. Liberals, they argue, by criticizing the president’s rhetoric as racist, are falling into a trap set by Chinese propagandists, who are hoping to characterize any criticism of Beijing’s role in the outbreak as racism.
This criticism contains an element of truth. As The Wall Street Journal reported in early March, the Chinese government lied about the threat posed by COVID-19 and the coronavirus’s transmissibility to humans, and dragged its feet in informing the public, even silencing a whistleblower, Li Wenliang, who tried to warn the country about the threat of the disease before succumbing to it himself. “By not moving aggressively to warn the public and medical professionals, public-health experts say, the Chinese government lost one of its best chances to keep the disease from becoming an epidemic,” The New York Times reported in early February.
Since that report, Chinese officials have engaged in a propaganda offensive, expelling American journalists, minimizing their early missteps, and putting forth a conspiracy theory that the virus was engineered by the U.S. military. Compared with all this, the president’s defenders argue, Trump referring to the coronavirus as the “Chinese virus” seems trivial.
Lost in that comparison, however, is the fact that the most effective target of CCP disinformation has been Trump himself. The president’s public praise of the Chinese government’s response was not simply a public stance. According to The Washington Post, at the same time that Trump was stating that Beijing had the disease under control, U.S. intelligence agencies were already warning him that “Chinese officials appeared to be minimizing the severity of the outbreak.”
Administration officials directly warned Trump of the danger posed by the virus, but “Trump’s insistence on the contrary seemed to rest in his relationship with China’s President Xi Jingping, whom Trump believed was providing him with reliable information about how the virus was spreading in China,” The Washington Post reported, “despite reports from intelligence agencies that Chinese officials were not being candid about the true scale of the crisis.”
The right’s rhetorical shift then, is not just another racism rope-a-dope, an attempt to bait the left into a culture-war argument and divert attention from the president’s disastrous handling of the coronavirus pandemic. It is also an attempt to cover up the fact that the Chinese government’s propaganda campaign was effective in that it helped persuade the president of the United States not to take adequate precautionary measures to stem a tide of pestilence that U.S. government officials saw coming.
Now faced with the profound consequences of that decision, the right has settled on a strategy that does little to hold Beijing accountable for its mishandling of the coronavirus, but instead plays into Beijing’s attempt to cast any criticism of the Chinese government’s response as racism. Not only is the Chinese virus gambit morally objectionable, it is also inimical to the strategic interests the Trump administration was supposedly pursuing. The term makes no distinction between China’s authoritarian government and people who happen to be of Chinese origin, and undermines the unified front the Trump administration would want if it were actually concerned with countering Chinese-government propaganda.
Instead, the Trump administration has chosen a political tactic that strengthens the president’s political prospects by polarizing the electorate, and covers up his own role as Xi’s patsy, while making its own pushback against CCP propaganda less effective. The Trump administration might have chosen any number of methods to hold the Chinese government accountable for its mishandling of the outbreak that would not legitimize anti-Asian racism; it settled on a verbal taunt ineffective at countering disinformation but well suited to pursuing the president’s political interests.
This approach reflects the most glaring flaws of Trumpist governance, which have become only more acute during the coronavirus crisis: It exacerbates rather than solves the underlying problem, placing the president’s political objectives above all other concerns, even the ones both the president and his supporters claim to value.
A week after first deploying the term Chinese virus, even the president seemed to have regrets about the tactic. “It seems like there could be a little bit of nasty language toward Asian Americans in our country, and I don’t like that at all,” Trump told reporters at a press conference yesterday afternoon. "These are incredible people, they love our country, and I’m not gonna let it happen.”
The president did not say who might be using the “nasty language” or what that “nasty language” was, nor did he offer any theories as to why anyone might be using it.

[Bart]

This is an honest question: Would these two individuals have taken Chloroquine Phosphate if the POTUS did not say it was a game changer? Would they have even thought of it?

Frightened, clueless people...it's unfortunate.

The problem is what the MSM and rabid partisans on this board do with a story like this, linking it directly to and mischaracterizing Trump's attempt at optimism. This constant effort to exploit and aggrandize any and all perceived opportunities, IMO, is a far greater problem as compared to anything Trump has said.

Do I think Trump could do a better job of communicating, absolutely!, but I do understand the sentiment under dire circumstances.

Jeebus

He never used the words chloroquine phosphate. Never.

You are 100% right. He never said that. But how many people understand the difference? Tech is right, frightened, clueless people. How many of them are out there? That is why everyone behind a podium needs to be very careful in what they say and how they say it.

[Peter Brown]

Yeah, nothing scares the people more than a gang of Republican families attending a Fourth of July parade!

Back to freedom of speech.

You either stand for free speech or you don’t. You either stand for the First Amendment or you don’t. You either believe that every citizen has the right to speak freely (with the exception of direct, credible threats), or you want the government to be able to have the power to decide which opinions are or are not acceptable. Which opinions are or are not imprisonable.

Which party do you think wants to control speech and which one doesn't? You haven't been paying attention if you answer incorrectly.

Nice evasion of the examples I listed. Good try but totally unconvincing as nobody suppresses free speech or attempts to impose their twisted views on all else like the delusional right wing does.

Who wants to control free speech? Well, it is no secret that your Republican heroes ended the fairness doctrine, engage in censorship on college campuses such as "Liberty", BYU, Hillsdale, and Regent, controls the air waves in AM/FM radio, and spews the most worthless garbage online through sources such as Fox and Breitbart. Your right wing heroes in Congress refuse to allow a black representative to wear a hoodie on the grounds that it does not meet its protocols but it has no problem with a white rightie wear a gas mask to mock victims of a deadly disease. Remember our old LP website which was controlled by right wing mods? Whenever a patriot tried to post anything it was deleted. But right wing garbage was always allowed. Compare that with the open mindedness we see on this forum. Bottom line, in answer to your query, nobody suppresses free speech more than does the right wing. The record could not be more clear.

"Imprisonable"? Your hero traitor Bush who is so beloved as a liberator and purveyor of all that is good and pristine in the world spewed the foulest and most treasonous lies when he pretended there were WMD and an impending attack. Because of his lies tens of thousands of innocent Middle Easterners are dead, an entire nation is in ruins, and chaos abounds in that region. Yeah, he sure did a lot of "good" for those people's free speech didn't he? His pals in Blackwater commit a series of atrocities such as Nisour Square and your hero attempts to have them shielded from prosecution rather than to insure justice for the victims. But there is more:


"The reality is that, on U.S. soil, he {Bush} perpetrated a wide array of radical abuses aimed at Muslims in the wake of 9/11. In the weeks after the attack, more than 1,000 Muslims and Arabs were swept up by the FBI and detained without charge, often by abusing the powers allowing for detention of “material witnesses.” Thousands of Muslim immigrants were deported from the U.S. in the months following the attack. Bush quickly and secretly implemented an illegal scheme of warrantless domestic eavesdropping aimed largely at Muslims ... Indeed, the Bush administration pioneered a radical new theory of executive power that literally vested the president with unlimited authority to do virtually anything in the name of national security, including breaking the law, and those theories were used largely to infringe the civil liberties of Muslims within the U.S."


https://theintercept.com/2015/11/30/let ... n-the-u-s/



Hooray for free speech and civil liberties under Bush. Now read the Downing Street Memo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downing_Street_memo

Gerrymandering, voter suppression, packing the courts with right wing judges who have a political agenda, Tea Bagging rallies spewing hate and treason, McConnell stifling much needed legislation - all examples of your right wing heroes screwing the works and setting the USA backwards. To say that it is any other side that has succeeded in suppressing free speech or other liberties is utter delusionalism.

The post above qualifies, imo, as unreservedly uninformed.

Too much to reply to, but I would note that Liberty University (4 universities in the United States that qualify as 'conservative' I guess, out of a total of 5,000+...but you found them Brooklyn! Excellent sleuthing! These four have about the same ratio of conservative to liberal as our media divide!
Breitbart = NBC!! ), actually invited Bernie Sanders to give a speech on its grounds, and he encountered a very polite audience. In fact, they actually cheered.

Sanders' speech was frequently interrupted by cheers.

https://www.vox.com/2015/9/14/9323041/b ... university

No one rushed the stage, yelled into megaphones, threw food at Bernie, or otherwise acted like totalitarian jackwagons. Unlike, say...

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/20 ... est_2.html

[RedFromMI]

Really good post from Josh Marshall at TalkingPointsMemo about the whys of increased testing (even as in some places there are restrictions on who is testing):

What Are We Trying to Accomplish with Testing?

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/wh ... th-testing

This gets us to another issue about testing. We need to be thinking about clinical testing, which is useful to guide the course of treatment for individuals and, surveillance and public health testing which is necessary for the broader containment and control of the epidemic. Because of the severity of the situation in our hospitals, shortages of PPE and people, we’re basically forced to place almost all our emphasis on the former category. Once we exert some level of control over the epidemic we’ll be able to move more focusing to broad testing.

The order of events will have to be something like this. Everybody but essential personnel goes into full lockdown because during explosive spread and without effective testing at scale that is the only way to reduce the spread. Simultaneously, support hospitals and health care workers caring for the wave of critically ill patients flooding into hospitals. Hopefully the first effort (radical social distancing) will eventually end the immediate crisis in the second (the wave of critically ill people pouring into hospitals).

From there broader testing will become critical because only with testing at scale and aggressive contact tracing and quarantines will we be able to get to a new normal that will be sustainable into next year when hopefully you have medical interventions which can actually end the crisis. Only surveillance testing will allow us to fine tune the economy-crushing blunt instrument of radical lockdown. Testing here means not only testing for infection, as we’re already doing, but serological testing which tells you who has already been infected and (most likely) is now immune. Researchers are still trying to confirm how immune you are and for how long. But people who are immune will obviously be key players in providing assistance in a semi-social distanced world. All of this is necessary to produce the data to monitor effectively.

We can’t stay in total lockdown for 18 months. But when we can ease up somewhat, how we can ease up and to guard against a second outbreak when we’re semi-eased up – all of that will come down to testing for surveillance, monitoring, contact tracing and quarantines.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is an honest question: Would these two individuals have taken Chloroquine Phosphate if the POTUS did not say it was a game changer? Would they have even thought of it?

Frightened, clueless people...it's unfortunate.

The problem is what the MSM and rabid partisans on this board do with a story like this, linking it directly to and mischaracterizing Trump's attempt at optimism. This constant effort to exploit and aggrandize any and all perceived opportunities, IMO, is a far greater problem as compared to anything Trump has said.

Do I think Trump could do a better job of communicating, absolutely!, but I do understand the sentiment under dire circumstances.

Leave it to the medical professionals to make recommendations, not a guy that builds schlocky real estate projects.

Perfect TLD. Feel better now?...does your response have the dopamine flowing?...and I do mean dope.

You disagree? A couple of dumb Nigerians also poisoned themselves listening to Trump.

[6ftstick]

An Arizona woman who was left in critical condition and whose husband died after they took chloroquine phosphate said, “Don’t believe anything that the president says.”

Yahoo News Feed

Lesson learned the hard way.

They drank fish tank cleaner. Trump did not say to drink this. This is why the media is called Fake News and The Enemy of the People. You’re spreading lies. Typical democrat

You are spreading stupidity just like your hero.

Governor Andrew Cuomo took 10,000 doses of the drug Trump was talking about. And is distributing it among his voters this morning. What a marroon eh?

[a fan]

If this Ingelsby guy is correct, it just goes to show how inept and unprepared our healthcare system is and has been in the face of pandemics. This goes way back...who should be blamed?

Everyone in Congress who thinks that governing is a sport. McConnell, by far. Pelosi, not far behind. We already know Trump's work to dismantle Gov. agencies he doesn't understand.

And everyone who thinks socialism or government infrastructure is bad, and should be cut because they think "the free market should handle it".

Puhlease. Show us, once you've reviewed both plans, where Mitch inserts tons of irrelevant goodies in is plan, versus Nancy's, whose plan I had the chance to review last night.

I was being generous with Nancy yesterday, btw...the list of goodies she inserted in 1400 pages was quite the remarkable list! If any of you know her personally, it is likely she put your company specifically in the ask!

She's calling for $35,000,000 for the Kennedy Center (which would be funded no matter what happens), plus $600,000,000 for the National Endowment for the Arts! Now, just ftr, the chairman of the Kennedy Center is David Rubenstein, a private equity guy who could stroke $35,000,000 like you would pull a $1 bill out of your wallet. BTW, the total budget for the year is $35,000,000...I wonder where this money will eventually go? Will it help stamp out Corona virus?

Oh no! Not $35 Million! Wow. What a plan!

Mitch dropped in a $500 Billion slush fund that would go to whomever he chose, with no oversight. Go ahead. Top that. Take your time, smart guy.

It's the reason the bill stalled. That is being changed today to a bill with oversight. And hopefully Pelosi's nonsense will go away, too.

You ready to enjoy your $50 billion airline bail out that others don't get? And more for cargo planes? But yea, go ahead and pretend that you're worried about the fairness of this bill.

[6ftstick]

If this Ingelsby guy is correct, it just goes to show how inept and unprepared our healthcare system is and has been in the face of pandemics. This goes way back...who should be blamed?

Everyone in Congress who thinks that governing is a sport. McConnell, by far. Pelosi, not far behind. We already know Trump's work to dismantle Gov. agencies he doesn't understand.

And everyone who thinks socialism or government infrastructure is bad, and should be cut because they think "the free market should handle it".

Puhlease. Show us, once you've reviewed both plans, where Mitch inserts tons of irrelevant goodies in is plan, versus Nancy's, whose plan I had the chance to review last night.

I was being generous with Nancy yesterday, btw...the list of goodies she inserted in 1400 pages was quite the remarkable list! If any of you know her personally, it is likely she put your company specifically in the ask!

She's calling for $35,000,000 for the Kennedy Center (which would be funded no matter what happens), plus $600,000,000 for the National Endowment for the Arts! Now, just ftr, the chairman of the Kennedy Center is David Rubenstein, a private equity guy who could stroke $35,000,000 like you would pull a $1 bill out of your wallet. BTW, the total budget for the year is $35,000,000...I wonder where this money will eventually go? Will it help stamp out Corona virus?

Oh no! Not $35 Million! Wow. What a plan!

Mitch dropped in a $500 Billion slush fund that would go to whomever he chose, with no oversight. Go ahead. Top that. Take your time, smart guy.

It's the reason the bill stalled. That is being changed today to a bill with oversight. And hopefully Pelosi's nonsense will go away, too.

You ready to enjoy your $50 billion airline bail out that others don't get? And more for cargo planes? But yea, go ahead and pretend that you're worried about the fairness of this bill.

Who needs an airline industry? Your folks take over there won't be any fuel for them anyway.

[Matnum PI]

Today's The Daily podcast was pretty sobering. Yesterday's Surgeon General comments as well. Bottomline, and this is me speaking, not the two aforementioned sources, Americans are arrogant. Until the bat actually hits us in the face or we witness the bat hitting someone we value in the face, we scoff, we deny reality. And the reality is that this virus is real. People infected is going to skyrocket, starting in Washington and NY, hospitals are going to be overloaded not just with testing but with dying patients, there's going to be very real carnage. Of course it's possible that we find a miracle cure but, coming full circle, that mode of thinking sounds like american arrogance. Again, possible. But to minimize the on coming storm because we're assuming that we'll figure this out is pure, unadulterated arrogance.

[a fan]

[You either stand for freedom of speech, a fan, or you don't. It's quite simple.

You're hiding, as all leftists do, behind the 'private companies aren't the government' phony shell.

Either for it, or you're not. We all know the Left would crater free speech if given half the chance. And most here on this board who parrot left talking points would be perfectly fine were that to come to pass (until they take your speech, which they will).

Remind me to never send my kid to a Socialist Florida State College. You've either slept through all your classes....or the school just sucks.

I'm not hiding anything, and I'm miles to the right of you, bailout-boy.

So now you're telling us that if Pete Brown shows up at the NYTimes (a private company), and they don't print whatever you tell them to.....they're suppressing your free speech. Rush Limbaugh has to air whatever I tell him to?

You're making us all dumber with these ridiculous ideas of yours.

[6ftstick]

If this Ingelsby guy is correct, it just goes to show how inept and unprepared our healthcare system is and has been in the face of pandemics. This goes way back...who should be blamed?

Everyone in Congress who thinks that governing is a sport. McConnell, by far. Pelosi, not far behind. We already know Trump's work to dismantle Gov. agencies he doesn't understand.

And everyone who thinks socialism or government infrastructure is bad, and should be cut because they think "the free market should handle it".

Puhlease. Show us, once you've reviewed both plans, where Mitch inserts tons of irrelevant goodies in is plan, versus Nancy's, whose plan I had the chance to review last night.

I was being generous with Nancy yesterday, btw...the list of goodies she inserted in 1400 pages was quite the remarkable list! If any of you know her personally, it is likely she put your company specifically in the ask!

She's calling for $35,000,000 for the Kennedy Center (which would be funded no matter what happens), plus $600,000,000 for the National Endowment for the Arts! Now, just ftr, the chairman of the Kennedy Center is David Rubenstein, a private equity guy who could stroke $35,000,000 like you would pull a $1 bill out of your wallet. BTW, the total budget for the year is $35,000,000...I wonder where this money will eventually go? Will it help stamp out Corona virus?

Oh no! Not $35 Million! Wow. What a plan!

Mitch dropped in a $500 Billion slush fund that would go to whomever he chose, with no oversight. Go ahead. Top that. Take your time, smart guy.

It's the reason the bill stalled. That is being changed today to a bill with oversight. And hopefully Pelosi's nonsense will go away, too.

You ready to enjoy your $50 billion airline bail out that others don't get? And more for cargo planes? But yea, go ahead and pretend that you're worried about the fairness of this bill.

Money to help business in a bill to help business—how terrible. Businesses that lost 12 Trillion net worth through no fault of their own.

For a businessman you sure do have a poor opinion of your peers.

[jhu72]

For those interested, the Manchester University in the UK has upgraded their user interface. It is really useful for comparing up to 5 countries at a time with each other in multipe statistical categories.

Manchester University Site

[a fan]

Money to help business in a bill to help business—how terrible. Businesses that lost 12 Trillion net worth through no fault of their own.

For a businessman you sure do have a poor opinion of your peers.

Go ahead and tell me which businesses are getting help, and which one's aren't with this current bill?

Take your time. Then you'll understand why this makes me angry.

As for me? I want to help every business that needs help. This bill isn't doing that.

[6ftstick]

Money to help business in a bill to help business—how terrible. Businesses that lost 12 Trillion net worth through no fault of their own.

For a businessman you sure do have a poor opinion of your peers.

Go ahead and tell me which businesses are getting help, and which one's aren't with this current bill?

Take your time. Then you'll understand why this makes me angry.

As for me? I want to help every business that needs help. This bill isn't doing that.

Any company that wants to keep their employees and pay their bills. And will pay it back

Financial Crisis Bailouts Have Earned Taxpayers Billions

https://money.usnews.com/investing/arti ... s-billions

yeh but that was a democrat. It's different.