Page 1436 of 1864
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:28 pm
by ggait
Hard to say any of this, because religion is personal.
Additionally, past history and length of practice are irrelevant. Certain events in life make people "find God/religion."
Nonsense. Quite easily actually. And completely in compliance with the law.
100% perfectly legal to subject claims of religious belief to due diligence and reasonableness. Which is why so many of them are being rejected. Because they are transparently BS.
Someone belongs to a religion that has no problem with vaccines. Person has no prior history of EVER refusing any vax, medicine or treatment on religious grounds. Can't prove they've sworn off Tylenol, Pepto Bismol and the host of other common medications that use cell lines too.
Basically, they say they really believe the Lord is telling them not to take the Covid shot. But the Lord has never spoken to them about any other medical treatment.
Those claims are rightly and easily being rejected in huge numbers. Ask Wiggins of the Warriors.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:03 pm
by Bart
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:29 pm
Bart wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:07 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:51 am
Hard to say any of this, because
religion is personal.
Additionally, past history and length of practice are irrelevant. Certain events in life make people "find God/religion."
Sometimes suddenly upon a revelation or traumatic experience.
traumatic..................like loosing you job?
Not sure how one "looses" their job...
But it can be traumatic and "religion inducing" if you are given an ultimatum to inject something into your body that isn't fully understood or disclosed OR losing ones job.
It could certainly make you analyze what you are injecting AND think deeply about what you believe and the boundaries of your personal faith.
People also have "a-ha" moments when they least expect it. Including in the middle of the night, during hours of reflection, any random day of the week.
This discussion makes me feel like I'm back in that Jesuit theology class all those years ago...
hahahah...spellig and gramer are so 1950's. Never been my strong soot. Actually, I don't think I have a strong suit but I digress. Back to the topik at hand.
Sorry, not buying that in this instance. I am not discounting what you are saying above.....but not in this instance and not from my personal sphere. I see it being used as a crutch, a tool to get what people want and that pi$$es me off. I am not easily offended but this comes about as close as it can. I think if one has strong personal beliefs and lives by them then yes there may be instances where this type of exemption should absolutely be considered.
In my local area of mouth breathers that work in hospitals I know of one department that has granted 4 religious exemptions. Two of these exemptions went to people who I would say are true believers. They live their faith. The exemption exists for people just like these. The other two? Never said a word about it prior to this. Not once. It was so absurd they were actually asking for help writing their letters asking for the exemption on the basis of not knowing enough about the scripture to actually use it. Absurd.
The only deep thinking in these cases was how am I going to pay the bills when I am asked to leave my position and not be able to collect unemployment. That is wrong on so many levels but hey they found their faith........
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:17 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Bart wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:03 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:29 pm
Bart wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:07 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:51 am
Hard to say any of this, because
religion is personal.
Additionally, past history and length of practice are irrelevant. Certain events in life make people "find God/religion."
Sometimes suddenly upon a revelation or traumatic experience.
traumatic..................like loosing you job?
Not sure how one "looses" their job...
But it can be traumatic and "religion inducing" if you are given an ultimatum to inject something into your body that isn't fully understood or disclosed OR losing ones job.
It could certainly make you analyze what you are injecting AND think deeply about what you believe and the boundaries of your personal faith.
People also have "a-ha" moments when they least expect it. Including in the middle of the night, during hours of reflection, any random day of the week.
This discussion makes me feel like I'm back in that Jesuit theology class all those years ago...
hahahah...spellig and gramer are so 1950's. Never been my strong soot. Actually, I don't think I have a strong suit but I digress. Back to the topik at hand.
Sorry, not buying that in this instance. I am not discounting what you are saying above.....but not in this instance and not from my personal sphere. I see it being used as a crutch, a tool to get what people want and that pi$$es me off. I am not easily offended but this comes about as close as it can. I think if one has strong personal beliefs and lives by them then yes there may be instances where this type of exemption should absolutely be considered.
In my local area of mouth breathers that work in hospitals I know of one department that has granted 4 religious exemptions. Two of these exemptions went to people who I would say are true believers. They live their faith. The exemption exists for people just like these. The other two? Never said a word about it prior to this. Not once. It was so absurd they were actually asking for help writing their letters asking for the exemption on the basis of not knowing enough about the scripture to actually use it. Absurd.
The only deep thinking in these cases was how am I going to pay the bills when I am asked to leave my position and not be able to collect unemployment. That is wrong on so many levels but hey they found their faith........
You know there was originally 15 commandments right?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I48hr8HhDv0
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:24 pm
by MDlaxfan76
youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:00 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:51 am
ggait wrote: ↑Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:50 pm
Much like this short list...acetaminophen, albuterol, aspirin, ibuprofen, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, Tums, Lipitor, Senokot, Motrin, Maalox, Ex-Lax, Benadryl, Sudafed, Preparation H, Claritin, Prilosec, and Zoloft
And if they also abstain from those, the same can apply, no? Not picking a fight, just discussing merit.
Totally agree.
But how many of the folks claiming religious exemptions could pass this test. Close to zero I would guess.
Because their religion has no objection to the Covid vax. And because they personally will have no record of ever religiously objecting to any other medicine or vaccine before.
TL/DR:
Because their "religious" objection to the Covid vax is just made up bull shirt.
Hard to say any of this, because
religion is personal.
And people are fallible. All religions understand that people evolve, change opinions, aren't perfect, and understand the religious teachings may not always be followed, 100% of the time. So asking for "proof" of a person's inner beliefs is impossible.
You can be a practicing _ and still be fully flawed. The "try" is the only requirement.
Additionally, past history and length of practice are irrelevant. Certain events in life make people "find God/religion." Sometimes suddenly upon a revelation or traumatic experience.
+1
While I'm
very sympathetic to those who have sincere religious beliefs, including those who are simply struggling to make sense of their 'faith', when we grant exemptions to
public policies, whether health or warfare, etc. it is incumbent upon the person seeking such exemption to actually demonstrate consistency in their transference of "belief" to actual practice in their life.
In other words, it is not sufficient to simply say, I don't believe God wants me to kill other people, to avoid the draft. It's certainly possible to to achieve conscientious objector exemption, but you gotta actually show that this is sincere.
https://www.sss.gov/conscientious-objectors/
And it needs to apply to any war, any military service, not simply the one at hand...
With something like a vaccine, it's also quite possible to have a sincere religiously based belief that God will cure all, that medical intervention is against God's will, etc, but you gotta actually show that this is how you really do live your life.
Selectively claiming that this particular intervention is the only one you refuse, based on some claimed "revelation" saying the God says not this one...that's not gonna cut it.
Frankly, as a religious person, I'd suggest that we should find it downright offensive when people falsely claim religious beliefs not actually held.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:12 pm
by kramerica.inc
Outrage over feigned religion. I can agree.
But no outrage that hr questions someone’s religious beliefs?
That’s pretty offensive to me as well. Having to be outwardly religious is not a THING with all religion. Someone can believe in their heart, quietly. And can believe it now, suddenly.
Does HR want us to spend time at work performing our professions of faith now?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:04 am
by Farfromgeneva
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:12 pm
Outrage over feigned religion. I can agree.
But no outrage that hr questions someone’s religious beliefs?
That’s pretty offensive to me as well. Having to be outwardly religious is not a THING with all religion. Someone can believe in their heart, quietly. And can believe it now, suddenly.
Does HR want us to spend time at work performing our professions of faith now?
Don’t bring it into work at all? If that’s part of the agreement when you enter into employment then you have to accept it as part of employment. If people want to work sundays because they hve their kids during the week they don’t work at Chik Fil A…
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:30 am
by Bart
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:12 pm
Outrage over feigned religion. I can agree.
But no outrage that hr questions someone’s religious beliefs?
That’s pretty offensive to me as well. Having to be outwardly religious is not a THING with all religion. Someone can believe in their heart, quietly. And can believe it now, suddenly.
Does HR want us to spend time at work performing our professions of faith now?
It was not HR who brought up religion into this discussion but the petitioner him/herself. It is upon the petitioner to therefore meet the standards of HR since they are the ones seeking the exemption.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:38 am
by Farfromgeneva
Took my kids to a carnival yesterday after hiking at a state park. Knew the cohort in deep NW Cobb Co would be different but while crowded it seemed ok. We were all within 6 ft of people though outdoors at various times. Kids were masked maybe 35-50% of time parents not so much
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:37 pm
by CU88
A sober COVID19 statistic: 140,000 children without their caregiver
Katelyn Jetelina
Oct 9
Most COVID19 deaths occur among adults, so a lot of attention has been focused on mitigating risks for them. However, that doesn’t mean kids won’t be impacted for years to come. Undue burden has been placed on kids, with the most detrimental being orphanhood.
Two days ago the journal of Pediatrics published a sobering study assessing the impact of adult COVID19 deaths on kids. Specifically, scientists estimated how many kids were orphaned or lost a caregiver from April 1, 2020 through June 30, 2021 due to COVID19 pandemic. To answer this, they pulled data from multiple sources: excess deaths and COVID-19 deaths, birth certificates, and the US Census.
To define this cohort of children, the authors used the United Nations definition of orphanhood: death of one or both parents. Losing one parent has increased risks of mental health problems, abuse, unstable housing, and household poverty. They also estimated primary caregiver deaths, which included at least one parent or custodial grandparent. Secondary caregiver deaths included a co-residing grandparent or kin.
So, what did they find?
120,630 children in the U.S. experienced death of a primary caregiver
22,007 children experienced death of secondary caregivers
Children in racial/ethnic minority groups experienced death of a primary caregiver more often than Non-Hispanic White children (91,256 vs 51,381).
States with the largest populations had the highest number: California (16,179), Texas (14,135), and New York (7,175)
It’s important to note that this study was before Delta. The first author, Dr. Susan Hillis, told NPR that the current estimate is closer to 175,000 kids who have lost a caregiver.
And this wasn’t the first study to discover this
In July, the Lancet published a study assessing the global rate of orphanhood due to COVID19. From March 1, 2020 to April 30, 2021, they estimated 1,134, 000 children experienced the death of primary caregivers.
Peru had the highest rate (10.2 per 1000 children), followed by South Africa (5.1), Mexico (3.5), Brazil (2.4), Colombia (2.3), Iran (1.7), and USA (1.5).
Between two and five times more children had deceased fathers than deceased mothers
Long term impact
Orphanhood and caregiver loss can result in profound long-term impacts on health and quality of life. It’s even considered an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE)— an entire field of inquiry where scientists investigate how exposure to negative events in childhood impact development and well-being decades later. Previous research has shown that loss of a primary or secondary caregiver can impact kids in many ways:
Loss of a parent → mental health problems, less schooling, lower self-esteem, sexual risk behaviors, and risks of suicide, violence, sexual abuse, and exploitation.
Loss of caregiver →housing instability, separations, and lack of support
Loss of secondary caregiver → loss of psychosocial, practical, and/or financial support
Bottom Line: For every 4 pandemic deaths, 1 kid was orphaned or lost their caregiver in the United States. Go get a vaccine if you’re still unvaccinated. Your decision not to get vaccinated can directly effect others around you, including your kids.
I know I’ll be hugging my girls extra tight today.
Love, YLE
It is just the flu...
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:13 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
CU88 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:37 pm
A sober COVID19 statistic: 140,000 children without their caregiver
Katelyn Jetelina
Oct 9
Most COVID19 deaths occur among adults, so a lot of attention has been focused on mitigating risks for them. However, that doesn’t mean kids won’t be impacted for years to come. Undue burden has been placed on kids, with the most detrimental being orphanhood.
Two days ago the journal of Pediatrics published a sobering study assessing the impact of adult COVID19 deaths on kids. Specifically, scientists estimated how many kids were orphaned or lost a caregiver from April 1, 2020 through June 30, 2021 due to COVID19 pandemic. To answer this, they pulled data from multiple sources: excess deaths and COVID-19 deaths, birth certificates, and the US Census.
To define this cohort of children, the authors used the United Nations definition of orphanhood: death of one or both parents. Losing one parent has increased risks of mental health problems, abuse, unstable housing, and household poverty. They also estimated primary caregiver deaths, which included at least one parent or custodial grandparent. Secondary caregiver deaths included a co-residing grandparent or kin.
So, what did they find?
120,630 children in the U.S. experienced death of a primary caregiver
22,007 children experienced death of secondary caregivers
Children in racial/ethnic minority groups experienced death of a primary caregiver more often than Non-Hispanic White children (91,256 vs 51,381).
States with the largest populations had the highest number: California (16,179), Texas (14,135), and New York (7,175)
It’s important to note that this study was before Delta. The first author, Dr. Susan Hillis, told NPR that the current estimate is closer to 175,000 kids who have lost a caregiver.
And this wasn’t the first study to discover this
In July, the Lancet published a study assessing the global rate of orphanhood due to COVID19. From March 1, 2020 to April 30, 2021, they estimated 1,134, 000 children experienced the death of primary caregivers.
Peru had the highest rate (10.2 per 1000 children), followed by South Africa (5.1), Mexico (3.5), Brazil (2.4), Colombia (2.3), Iran (1.7), and USA (1.5).
Between two and five times more children had deceased fathers than deceased mothers
Long term impact
Orphanhood and caregiver loss can result in profound long-term impacts on health and quality of life. It’s even considered an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE)— an entire field of inquiry where scientists investigate how exposure to negative events in childhood impact development and well-being decades later. Previous research has shown that loss of a primary or secondary caregiver can impact kids in many ways:
Loss of a parent → mental health problems, less schooling, lower self-esteem, sexual risk behaviors, and risks of suicide, violence, sexual abuse, and exploitation.
Loss of caregiver →housing instability, separations, and lack of support
Loss of secondary caregiver → loss of psychosocial, practical, and/or financial support
Bottom Line: For every 4 pandemic deaths, 1 kid was orphaned or lost their caregiver in the United States. Go get a vaccine if you’re still unvaccinated. Your decision not to get vaccinated can directly effect others around you, including your kids.
I know I’ll be hugging my girls extra tight today.
Love, YLE
It is just the flu...
Kids are not impacted. Those people were going to die anyway. No big deal. 750,000 people have to die from something….may as well be Covid-19.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:59 pm
by ggait
Outrage over feigned religion. I can agree.
But no outrage that hr questions someone’s religious beliefs?
Weasel lying bull shirt is weasel lying bull shirt.
And should not be tolerated. Like absolute ZERO tolerance.
Regardless of whether the weasel is lying about religion, medical condition or anything else. What goes for a weasel dodging the draft should also go for a weasel dodging the vax. If you are only willing to defend your "principles" so long as you lie your way around all consequences, well then you actually don't have any such principles.
You are just dumb, mis-informed, selfish, or an a-hole. And deserve to be treated as such.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:37 pm
by jhu72
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:31 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:45 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Bart wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:30 am
kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:12 pm
Outrage over feigned religion. I can agree.
But no outrage that hr questions someone’s religious beliefs?
That’s pretty offensive to me as well. Having to be outwardly religious is not a THING with all religion. Someone can believe in their heart, quietly. And can believe it now, suddenly.
Does HR want us to spend time at work performing our professions of faith now?
It was not HR who brought up religion into this discussion but the petitioner him/herself. It is upon the petitioner to therefore meet the standards of HR since they are the ones seeking the exemption.
I like this response better than ggait's though I agree with his fundamental point as well.
Kram,
No, I don't think someone can validly claim a public health exemption for a "revelation" ("suddenly") that God doesn't want them to take the vaccine, but all other medical treatments are just peachy keen.
Nope.
Now, if someone's a practicing Christian Scientist (in which it is optional, not dogmatic) or some other religious sect that actively denies
any medical treatments, preferring to rely entirely on God's good graces only, religious exemption is actually pretty easy. Need to respect quarantine and testing requirements though...
https://www.christianscience.com/press- ... lic-health
But as Bart suggests, it's incumbent on the petitioner for an exemption to provide convincing evidence of such commitment to no vaccinations, no medical treatment.
In theory that could be a recent "revelation", but I ain't buying it, nor should any HR dept/OSHA etc, unless it is an ongoing commitment to no medical treatment.
And, as the Christian Science piece indicates, "quarantine" is an acceptable answer...but you're no longer getting paid, if you're not working (unless remote is acceptable). The choice is the individual's.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:55 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:26 am
by youthathletics
Had Covid and vaxxed, no need for booster?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... =windirect
Maybe this is a sign that anti-bodies is becoming the common denominator, which may ease off mandates?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:12 am
by Typical Lax Dad
What do you mean by “becoming the common denominator”?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:42 am
by youthathletics
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:12 am
What do you mean by “becoming the common denominator”?
in determining who needs additional support in fighting cv19. If we can measure our immunity via our antibodies at home, we can then determine if we need the vaccines support.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:49 am
by Typical Lax Dad
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:42 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:12 am
What do you mean by “becoming the common denominator”?
in determining who needs additional support in fighting cv19. If we can measure our immunity via our antibodies at home, we can then determine if we need the vaccines support.
Common denominator is probably misused in the sentence. How else could we measure immunity? Just wondering what would be competing test methods to determine if there is no need to be vaccinated? Asking because your statement said antibodies test would be the common test. What’s the other? I don’t know, that’s why I am asking.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:04 am
by youthathletics
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:49 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:42 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:12 am
What do you mean by “becoming the common denominator”?
in determining who needs additional support in fighting cv19. If we can measure our immunity via our antibodies at home, we can then determine if we need the vaccines support.
Common denominator is probably misused in the sentence. How else could we measure immunity? Just wondering what would be competing test methods to determine if there is no need to be vaccinated? Asking because your statement said antibodies test would be the common test. What’s the other? I don’t know, that’s why I am asking.
my bad...I was lumping in all the variables du jour . Whether you already had it, whether you were vaccinated, which vaccine did you have, did you have a booster, do you have any symptoms, do you not have a vaccine card on file anywhere to show company x you are safe, and so on.
Fast forward one year-five years. If the vaccine can and supposedly wears off, then the choices are; continual boosters, risk getting CV19 again or test for antibodies. Maybe once we have the antibodies we are good to go....for ever? If it wains, then antibody tests are the common way to plan and prepare.
