DocBarrister wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:21 am (CNN)If NBA players are not vaccinated, they shouldn't be on the team, basketball Hall of Famer Kareem Abdul-Jabbar told Rolling Stone.
"The NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team," said Abdul-Jabbar.
"There is no room for players who are willing to risk the health and lives of their teammates, the staff and the fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research."
Abdul-Jabbar elaborated on that point during an interview on Don Lemon Tonight Monday, saying, "I don't think that they are behaving like good teammates or good citizens. This is a war that we're involved in. And masks and vaccines -- they are the weapons that we use to fight this war."
Abdul-Jabbar has been a vocal advocate for getting the Covid-19 vaccine. The NBA great received his vaccine on camera and appeared in an NBA public service announcement encouraging others to get vaccinated.
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:45 pm
Even the seat belt and helmet requirements have a societal component to them. Society pays for those not complying in potential unpaid medical bills and resource utilization.
correct, thus justifying the legal mandate.
There is, however, a bit of a slippery slope as to how much cost one's individual choices cost the rest of the public before we decide it's worth restricting those individual choices. And, of course, who actually makes these decisions of what's to the benefit of the public.
Behavioral science tells us that humans have a very difficult time assessing and valuing the costs of our actions, both in the future, and on others. For our own part, we all the time sacrifice long term benefit for short term gratification of impulses. And we regularly 'pollute' if no rule requiring otherwise.
So, as a society we work through government to help mediate these tradeoffs better. Of course, government doesn't get it right all the time either, being made up of humans making various such tradeoff decisions with the same sorts of behavioral handicaps of simply being human.
But Covid is a no-brainer.
Clear and large costs to others.
I don’t like the social cost argument unless you can draw a pretty straight line. To me Covid is obvious. Seat belts less so. I’m fact I ended up writing a strong argument against them as it modifies behavior such that other reckless activities such as speeding and assuming others behavior because of seatbelts (think Monte Carlo simulation/game theory)could be more expensive to society.
The global medical cost argument to ACA has always bothered me as the primary driving reason to justify it. Felt lazy and specious compared with making a better argument that we just need damn reform and better safety nets for more. Always the short cut that comes with costs, frictions and rent seeking activities at the expense of all over the more transparent and fair policy.
And someone will knee jerk respond “but they blocked everything so it was all fair to get it done”. Subsequently ignore when they and their cause gets bent over by the other side with the same tactics and laziness and now we’ve got two bad policies that cost us all a lot more.
Seat belts save lives.
Kurt Russell swears by it.
damn. i was gonna make a crack about getting him into a mask study, but that was nuts.
I sat with engineers and watch crash test dummies one summer. I won’t leave the driveway without a seatbelt. It didn’t take much.
I have a problem with the administrative state expansion and increasing criminalization of behavior fundamentally so I wear seatbelts, but to make it criminal as they have is my problem. Feels parochial and the only argument for it is social cost, really nothing else. Cheap way for politicians to pass a law and get points for it. No one was really asking for it.
I wouldn't agree that driving is a privilege at this stage. Pretty incongruous with arguing we need infrastructure to suggest it's a privilege in the same breath. In dense, infill cities in a few select areas on the coast you can argue that, noting MTA has been effectively insolvent for years. But when it comes to most other places, including major top ten MSAs, driving is necessary these days. The privilege argument is, at best, anacrhonistic.
To wit, lady who ran a savings bank in Asheville told me a story way back post crisis. The old axiom was homes were the most secure lending collateral because people had to live there, but in times of stress would toss their car keys back. So she sold her indrect auto finance book and held onto the mortgage portfolio. How it shook out was tons threw their house keys back and held onto their cars and made those payments because they had to get to their jobs. Compounded the struggle for that bank and anecdotal, but saw this repeatedly then and subsequent as the moral obligation we used to have with a contract like a loan agreement has gone away. So cars are more than a priviliege because we haven't properly provided the infrastructure to make that case.
In Manhattan, a car is a privilege….actually a luxury!
Boogie Down Productionnnns!
Zipcar! And you had a thriving taxi/black car system long before Uber showed up. And the train system is the best of any major metro I’ve seen or experienced, unless you’re trying to cross water after midnight. DC solid, Atlanta - they have public transport beyond the 1mi above ground Kasim Reed blew $1bn of whoever ready ARRA money on? It’s a T that works for two OOCRE-Hartsfield and Benz/State Farm arenas. BART is actually pretty solid for coverage but operationally garbage (punctuality, broke down trains). Have used LA and Chi but not really enough to opine. Septa has stations where the ground is akin to Howe or Luray Caverns.
What are parking spaces in co-ops going for these days? $300-$500k?
But it’s a necessity for the working class folks pushed out to Dutchess/Putnam/Rockland Co, maybe not Bergen but surely Sussex and Orange Co, the latter of which don’t do the key under the tire cover thing everyone knows that game. In fact just don’t have rims or hood ornaments in Orange Co.
I know. I also argue that based on the utility that a person gets out of 1 gallon of gas, even at $5.00 a gallon it’s relatively cheap. A car isn’t a privilege. Closer to a necessity.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:29 am
by Bart
tech37 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:00 amAn NBA Star and New York's Governor Show That Liberal COVID Discourse is Devoid of Science
jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:45 pm
Even the seat belt and helmet requirements have a societal component to them. Society pays for those not complying in potential unpaid medical bills and resource utilization.
correct, thus justifying the legal mandate.
There is, however, a bit of a slippery slope as to how much cost one's individual choices cost the rest of the public before we decide it's worth restricting those individual choices. And, of course, who actually makes these decisions of what's to the benefit of the public.
Behavioral science tells us that humans have a very difficult time assessing and valuing the costs of our actions, both in the future, and on others. For our own part, we all the time sacrifice long term benefit for short term gratification of impulses. And we regularly 'pollute' if no rule requiring otherwise.
So, as a society we work through government to help mediate these tradeoffs better. Of course, government doesn't get it right all the time either, being made up of humans making various such tradeoff decisions with the same sorts of behavioral handicaps of simply being human.
But Covid is a no-brainer.
Clear and large costs to others.
I don’t like the social cost argument unless you can draw a pretty straight line. To me Covid is obvious. Seat belts less so. I’m fact I ended up writing a strong argument against them as it modifies behavior such that other reckless activities such as speeding and assuming others behavior because of seatbelts (think Monte Carlo simulation/game theory)could be more expensive to society.
The global medical cost argument to ACA has always bothered me as the primary driving reason to justify it. Felt lazy and specious compared with making a better argument that we just need damn reform and better safety nets for more. Always the short cut that comes with costs, frictions and rent seeking activities at the expense of all over the more transparent and fair policy.
And someone will knee jerk respond “but they blocked everything so it was all fair to get it done”. Subsequently ignore when they and their cause gets bent over by the other side with the same tactics and laziness and now we’ve got two bad policies that cost us all a lot more.
Seat belts save lives.
Kurt Russell swears by it.
damn. i was gonna make a crack about getting him into a mask study, but that was nuts.
I sat with engineers and watch crash test dummies one summer. I won’t leave the driveway without a seatbelt. It didn’t take much.
I have a problem with the administrative state expansion and increasing criminalization of behavior fundamentally so I wear seatbelts, but to make it criminal as they have is my problem. Feels parochial and the only argument for it is social cost, really nothing else. Cheap way for politicians to pass a law and get points for it. No one was really asking for it.
I wouldn't agree that driving is a privilege at this stage. Pretty incongruous with arguing we need infrastructure to suggest it's a privilege in the same breath. In dense, infill cities in a few select areas on the coast you can argue that, noting MTA has been effectively insolvent for years. But when it comes to most other places, including major top ten MSAs, driving is necessary these days. The privilege argument is, at best, anacrhonistic.
To wit, lady who ran a savings bank in Asheville told me a story way back post crisis. The old axiom was homes were the most secure lending collateral because people had to live there, but in times of stress would toss their car keys back. So she sold her indrect auto finance book and held onto the mortgage portfolio. How it shook out was tons threw their house keys back and held onto their cars and made those payments because they had to get to their jobs. Compounded the struggle for that bank and anecdotal, but saw this repeatedly then and subsequent as the moral obligation we used to have with a contract like a loan agreement has gone away. So cars are more than a priviliege because we haven't properly provided the infrastructure to make that case.
In Manhattan, a car is a privilege….actually a luxury!
Boogie Down Productionnnns!
Zipcar! And you had a thriving taxi/black car system long before Uber showed up. And the train system is the best of any major metro I’ve seen or experienced, unless you’re trying to cross water after midnight. DC solid, Atlanta - they have public transport beyond the 1mi above ground Kasim Reed blew $1bn of whoever ready ARRA money on? It’s a T that works for two OOCRE-Hartsfield and Benz/State Farm arenas. BART is actually pretty solid for coverage but operationally garbage (punctuality, broke down trains). Have used LA and Chi but not really enough to opine. Septa has stations where the ground is akin to Howe or Luray Caverns.
What are parking spaces in co-ops going for these days? $300-$500k?
But it’s a necessity for the working class folks pushed out to Dutchess/Putnam/Rockland Co, maybe not Bergen but surely Sussex and Orange Co, the latter of which don’t do the key under the tire cover thing everyone knows that game. In fact just don’t have rims or hood ornaments in Orange Co.
I know. I also argue that based on the utility that a person gets out of 1 gallon of gas, even at $5.00 a gallon it’s relatively cheap. A car isn’t a privilege. Closer to a necessity.
There’s the issue of efficiency in SUVs. Nobody has the old VW Golf models anymore. Those were great. One time one of my best friends in HS told me “drive down vestal avenue by Shannon’s (his girlfriend at the time) around 9-9:30”. So of course I do. See his black Golf hatchback with four legs and feet sticking out a window and the car rock in’ in the driveway just past the sidewalk at her house! (I hope her parents weren’t there but don’t even know)
Just the liberals? C'mon....there is much discourse on all sides devoid of science.
... it's Greenwald.
Perfect... the usual disparaging effort to discredit
Try reading him sometime, you might learn something.
... libs have been owning Greenwald since he was a liberal.
nah...liberals turned on Greenwald (see disssslaxic who had been a Glenn disciple for years) as he moderated toward truth
... the article you referenced sure does show his "moderation toward truth". The guy is a narcissist snowflake and a cry baby that can't take criticism. He found his tribe.
Just the liberals? C'mon....there is much discourse on all sides devoid of science.
... it's Greenwald.
Perfect... the usual disparaging effort to discredit
Try reading him sometime, you might learn something.
... libs have been owning Greenwald since he was a liberal.
nah...liberals turned on Greenwald (see disssslaxic who had been a Glenn disciple for years) as he moderated toward truth
... the article you referenced sure does show his "moderation toward truth". The guy is a narcissist snowflake and a cry baby that can't take criticism. He found his tribe.
Wrong. His plight ( which you refer to as "can't take criticism") is in response to liberals, like you, along with left-leaning MSM, canceling his journalistic efforts. Why do you suppose he moved to Substack, along with many other journalists pursuing truth, and why that platform has become so popular and continues to grow.
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:29 pm
G I apologize if I missed your answer. How are Covid survivors going to harm your parents again?
Here's a refresher, to remind you of what you're actually writing here, since you can't remember.....
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:29 am
Thus,.....the numbers. Come on, ggait or afan......the NUMBERS show that almost all of the covid deaths had a number of factors:
OLD (avg. age 75 )
UNhealthy (that silly obesity , sugary sweet everything )....etc. etc.
You all have zero basis, medically and molecularly, for worrying about OTHERS not being vaccinated.
You didn't say boo about "covid survivors". You wrote, and I quote You all have zero basis, medically and molecularly, for worrying about OTHERS not being vaccinated.
You're wrong.
like the fabulous "online" old school daily newspapers, guess you only get three "free" articles, I mean questions, to ask AFAN. Has it now dropped to ONE question. One question only ?
Sure, you provided, yet another, un-answered question, I asked. Of you. Or.....did I miss the reply to THIS question......geez.
Nah , more of your cherry picking and winning these little "brush fires" and your "gottCHA " games.....only this time, it backfired on you.
Just can't seem to find your responses to either question. This is the behavior of "know it alls"....put down the fecesbook and come up with a good tasting THC laced whiskey.
You requiring vaxx cards to do tours of your distillery?
Just the liberals? C'mon....there is much discourse on all sides devoid of science.
... it's Greenwald.
Perfect... the usual disparaging effort to discredit
Try reading him sometime, you might learn something.
... libs have been owning Greenwald since he was a liberal.
nah...liberals turned on Greenwald (see disssslaxic who had been a Glenn disciple for years) as he moderated toward truth
... the article you referenced sure does show his "moderation toward truth". The guy is a narcissist snowflake and a cry baby that can't take criticism. He found his tribe.
Wrong. His plight ( which you refer to as "can't take criticism") is in response to liberals, like you, along with left-leaning MSM, canceling his journalistic efforts. Why do you suppose he moved to Substack, along with many other journalists pursuing truth, and why that platform has become so popular and continues to grow.
... I know his claimed excuse
Fear Porn.....afraid of fear porn ???
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:55 am
by runrussellrun
What ya'll frade uf ? A "private" company, yet does NOT benefit from government work, discounts, tax breaks yada yada ........who knew
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:29 pm
G I apologize if I missed your answer. How are Covid survivors going to harm your parents again?
Here's a refresher, to remind you of what you're actually writing here, since you can't remember.....
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:29 am
Thus,.....the numbers. Come on, ggait or afan......the NUMBERS show that almost all of the covid deaths had a number of factors:
OLD (avg. age 75 )
UNhealthy (that silly obesity , sugary sweet everything )....etc. etc.
You all have zero basis, medically and molecularly, for worrying about OTHERS not being vaccinated.
You didn't say boo about "covid survivors". You wrote, and I quote You all have zero basis, medically and molecularly, for worrying about OTHERS not being vaccinated.
You're wrong.
Sure, you provided, yet another, un-answered question, I asked. Of you. Or.....did I miss the reply to THIS question......geez.
Yep. You missed it. You don't REALLY want answers to questions. When you get answers, you ignore them, and move on.
So to answer the bolded part again, since you can't keep it together for five minutes: I'm worried about "other"s not being vaccinated because I have a daughter who isn't vaccinated. Yeah, I know----it's not you, so you don't care. But I care. I'm sure it's because I'm brainwashed or stupid, right?
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:56 am
Just can't seem to find your responses to either question. This is the behavior of "know it alls"....put down the fecesbook and come up with a good tasting THC laced whiskey.
The only know it all is you, my man. I know NOTHING about Covid, or treatments for Covid. And I have said as much multiple times. I rely on my doctor. YOU are the one coming on here, quoting garbage you read on the internet, pretending that you are an MD of some sort, and lecturing all of us on how your internet research tells us that we're all brainwashed sheep.
I, on the other hand, have wished you well several times----to no avail. You just keep hammering away at me, as if you think I'm the one who started Covid.
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:56 am
You requiring vaxx cards to do tours of your distillery?
We haven't allowed public tours since Covid started. And will continue that policy for at least 2021.
My turn for a question, since you have all the answers: everyone at the distillery is vaccinated. Yet we're not holding public tours. Why?
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:21 am (CNN)If NBA players are not vaccinated, they shouldn't be on the team, basketball Hall of Famer Kareem Abdul-Jabbar told Rolling Stone.
"The NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team," said Abdul-Jabbar.
"There is no room for players who are willing to risk the health and lives of their teammates, the staff and the fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research."
Abdul-Jabbar elaborated on that point during an interview on Don Lemon Tonight Monday, saying, "I don't think that they are behaving like good teammates or good citizens. This is a war that we're involved in. And masks and vaccines -- they are the weapons that we use to fight this war."
Abdul-Jabbar has been a vocal advocate for getting the Covid-19 vaccine. The NBA great received his vaccine on camera and appeared in an NBA public service announcement encouraging others to get vaccinated.
