Re: North Carolina 2023
Posted: Fri May 19, 2023 5:12 pm
I also hate to admit this… but the only good year JB has had since 2016… the Ivy League wasn’t even playing.
And they barely got in that year. Got hot at the right time.Lewisfrederick wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:12 pm I also hate to admit this… but the only good year JB has had since 2016… the Ivy League wasn’t even playing.
they were the #1 seed. that was 2 years ago.Exlaxbro wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:47 pmAnd they barely got in that year. Got hot at the right time.Lewisfrederick wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:12 pm I also hate to admit this… but the only good year JB has had since 2016… the Ivy League wasn’t even playing.
I meant 2016 was when they barely got in. They got hot and won it all but arguably should not have gotten in.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:56 pmthey were the #1 seed. that was 2 years ago.Exlaxbro wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:47 pmAnd they barely got in that year. Got hot at the right time.Lewisfrederick wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:12 pm I also hate to admit this… but the only good year JB has had since 2016… the Ivy League wasn’t even playing.
That’s the point I had made previously. The Haus era was far worse and the tail end before not great so it’s 3 decades of this. Like Army belaboring not being a FBS contender anymore. (That’s an extreme comparison maybe a better would be Ga Tech where I’m close thinking their relevant in football because they shared a title in 1990-91)Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:03 pmBreschi made the tournament every year from 2009-17 and only once since. Without 2021, Breschi doesn't get the extension today.BryanLax wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:41 pm Just saw this and wanted to share. Posted by The Crosse Commission on twitter back on May 6 (before this decision was made, and during our game against ND).
https://twitter.com/College_Crosse/stat ... 0667802625
UNC’s last 4 games against Duke/UVA/ND. Win against any one gets them in the tournament
7 goal loss
7 goal loss
7 goal loss
10 goal deficit (right now)
UNC 2022 April-onwards against the ACC, when they were in the Top 10 and in contention for a tournament spot
9 goal L to Duke
7 goal L to UVA
7 goal L to ND
8 goal L to Duke
8 games from basically April onward against Duke/UVA/ND last 2 years and they are -62 in those 8 games
UNC since 2018 in last week of March onwards ACC/NCAAT games is 9-18. 5 of those 9 wins came in 2021.
This will be their 5th full season of the last 6 since the championship with 7 or 8 wins. ACC record since 2016 is 9-21. This will be their 4th missed tournament in 5 years
In a profession that does not always attract people who live up to its stated ideals or what it’s noblest goals are, Joe Breschi surpasses each and every one of them. He‘s probably the finest guy out there.
But at some point, man, this is one of the crown jewel programs of the sport. You’ve got every resource available to you that you could want at that job. This can’t be what the standard is at that job. Your peers are not just lapping you, they’re running a different race.
The point about the peer schools is important. In fairness to Breschi, UNC coaches have stuggled in the ACC since 1991.
Facts or data in isolation of analysis including the environment though. Somebody has to be at the bottom and the rise of ND and Duke since the 90s has really cut into UNC. Same w GTown who was irrelevant before Urick got there in 1995. But specific to ACC you’ve got two programs that weren’t peers then now in conference so any comparison should take that fact into consideration as well.BryanLax wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:15 pmI just saw it for the first time today... and idk why it is a lose/lose proposition. Non-UNC fans seem confused as to why so many UNC fans want Breschi gone, and I think this perfectly shows that we are miles behind our peers.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:45 pmSharing this after he was just extended for three years? That’s a lose / lose proposition for UNC fans who want a head to roll. Either you’re correct and it sucks for a while or you were wrong and lose the ability to trust your own judgment with respect to your program.BryanLax wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:41 pm Just saw this and wanted to share. Posted by The Crosse Commission on twitter back on May 6 (before this decision was made, and during our game against ND).
https://twitter.com/College_Crosse/stat ... 0667802625
UNC’s last 4 games against Duke/UVA/ND. Win against any one gets them in the tournament
7 goal loss
7 goal loss
7 goal loss
10 goal deficit (right now)
UNC 2022 April-onwards against the ACC, when they were in the Top 10 and in contention for a tournament spot
9 goal L to Duke
7 goal L to UVA
7 goal L to ND
8 goal L to Duke
8 games from basically April onward against Duke/UVA/ND last 2 years and they are -62 in those 8 games
UNC since 2018 in last week of March onwards ACC/NCAAT games is 9-18. 5 of those 9 wins came in 2021.
This will be their 5th full season of the last 6 since the championship with 7 or 8 wins. ACC record since 2016 is 9-21. This will be their 4th missed tournament in 5 years
In a profession that does not always attract people who live up to its stated ideals or what it’s noblest goals are, Joe Breschi surpasses each and every one of them. He‘s probably the finest guy out there.
But at some point, man, this is one of the crown jewel programs of the sport. You’ve got every resource available to you that you could want at that job. This can’t be what the standard is at that job. Your peers are not just lapping you, they’re running a different race.
Also, I am just quoting what this person said... not saying he is correct or not. Seems to me that all but the last two paragraphs are facts that can't really be disputed.
21 and he can’t be held accountable for Covid in 20.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:27 pmThat's why he got the first extension. If you're still using the title as justification for another extension then the period between the two extensions probably wasn't good and you're not very far off from arguing for lifetime appointments for title winners. What if they go another three years without making a tournament? You moving on then? He'll still have won the title in 2016, that's not changing.
Missing the tourney more often than not in a 7-year stretch and more recently getting throttled in every non-Syracuse ACC game...I can see why some alums are upset they're not letting the contract expire and trying someone else out. But at UNC it seems you can rest on previous accomplishment longer than at some of their peer programs, three of which have made changes in the last handful of years and all three look like they're on upward trajectories from where the last guy left them.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/unc/2020BryanLax wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:37 pmNo one is disputing Breschi up too 2016, the issue is since 2016.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:18 pmsince 2016, unc has made 2 final fours, something only 4 other programs have done.BryanLax wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 3:41 pm Just saw this and wanted to share. Posted by The Crosse Commission on twitter back on May 6 (before this decision was made, and during our game against ND).
https://twitter.com/College_Crosse/stat ... 0667802625
UNC’s last 4 games against Duke/UVA/ND. Win against any one gets them in the tournament
7 goal loss
7 goal loss
7 goal loss
10 goal deficit (right now)
UNC 2022 April-onwards against the ACC, when they were in the Top 10 and in contention for a tournament spot
9 goal L to Duke
7 goal L to UVA
7 goal L to ND
8 goal L to Duke
8 games from basically April onward against Duke/UVA/ND last 2 years and they are -62 in those 8 games
UNC since 2018 in last week of March onwards ACC/NCAAT games is 9-18. 5 of those 9 wins came in 2021.
This will be their 5th full season of the last 6 since the championship with 7 or 8 wins. ACC record since 2016 is 9-21. This will be their 4th missed tournament in 5 years
In a profession that does not always attract people who live up to its stated ideals or what it’s noblest goals are, Joe Breschi surpasses each and every one of them. He‘s probably the finest guy out there.
But at some point, man, this is one of the crown jewel programs of the sport. You’ve got every resource available to you that you could want at that job. This can’t be what the standard is at that job. Your peers are not just lapping you, they’re running a different race.
since 2016, unc has won the national championship, the biggest of all prizes. something only 3 other programs have done.
there are over 70 programs in division 1.
2017) 8-8, 1-3 in ACC, Lost First Round
2018) 7-7, 1-3 in ACC, Missed NCAA
2019) 8-7, 1-3 in ACC, Missed NCAA
2021) 13-3, 4-2 in ACC, Final Four
2022) 8-6, 1-5 in ACC, Missed Tournament
2023) 7-7, 1-5 in ACC, Missed Tournament
Feels like the 2021 season was the anomaly. If Chris Gray hadn't transferred, likely would have been more of the same.
This isn't a bad year or two, this is a trend.
The Ivy League didn’t take 2016 off.Exlaxbro wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:59 pmI meant 2016 was when they barely got in. They got hot and won it all but arguably should not have gotten in.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:56 pmthey were the #1 seed. that was 2 years ago.Exlaxbro wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:47 pmAnd they barely got in that year. Got hot at the right time.Lewisfrederick wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 5:12 pm I also hate to admit this… but the only good year JB has had since 2016… the Ivy League wasn’t even playing.
21 was a great year. 17, 18, 19, 22, and 23 weren't. Do you reset the clock after 21 or do you go by the trend line? UNC is giving him more time but there's a reasonable argument to go with the downward direction of the graph. Giving the 3-year extension instead of the usual 5-year is screaming out that there won't be another one if the trend holds.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:43 pm21 and he can’t be held accountable for Covid in 20.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:27 pmThat's why he got the first extension. If you're still using the title as justification for another extension then the period between the two extensions probably wasn't good and you're not very far off from arguing for lifetime appointments for title winners. What if they go another three years without making a tournament? You moving on then? He'll still have won the title in 2016, that's not changing.
Missing the tourney more often than not in a 7-year stretch and more recently getting throttled in every non-Syracuse ACC game...I can see why some alums are upset they're not letting the contract expire and trying someone else out. But at UNC it seems you can rest on previous accomplishment longer than at some of their peer programs, three of which have made changes in the last handful of years and all three look like they're on upward trajectories from where the last guy left them.
A. Following trend lines is basically voodoo math, Amin to equity technical analysis.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:56 pm21 was a great year. 17, 18, 19, 22, and 23 weren't. Do you reset the clock after 21 or do you go by the trend line? UNC is giving him more time but there's a reasonable argument to go with the downward direction of the graph. Giving the 3-year extension instead of the usual 5-year is screaming out that there won't be another one if the trend holds.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:43 pm21 and he can’t be held accountable for Covid in 20.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 4:27 pmThat's why he got the first extension. If you're still using the title as justification for another extension then the period between the two extensions probably wasn't good and you're not very far off from arguing for lifetime appointments for title winners. What if they go another three years without making a tournament? You moving on then? He'll still have won the title in 2016, that's not changing.
Missing the tourney more often than not in a 7-year stretch and more recently getting throttled in every non-Syracuse ACC game...I can see why some alums are upset they're not letting the contract expire and trying someone else out. But at UNC it seems you can rest on previous accomplishment longer than at some of their peer programs, three of which have made changes in the last handful of years and all three look like they're on upward trajectories from where the last guy left them.
Nobody said lifetime employment or that’s it’s a bad program, that’s a heuristic to propose a binary when there’s a spectrum, just people need to get real about tiny non revenue sports. Useful to try to shorthand and win a debate but not rooted in actual logic or evidence we can observe.jrn19 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 7:24 pm Why would you go back 25 years. The sport has completely changed. You don’t make decisions on what happened in 1998.
Is the argument here supposed to be that UNC is just a bad program doomed to be mediocre forever because of John Haus’ results? If that’s the case then just give Breschi a lifetime contract, he’s meeting expectations.
Makes sense to me.10stone5 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 8:16 pm Carolina is more similar to Princeton than the other ACC title holders, or Maryland, or Hopkins.
Aside from the Tierney years, Princeton is a contender, competitive, but hasn’t really threatened to win a national title.
Most of UNCs major success was compressed in that decade or so Willy Scroggs era — 4 national titles, 22 of UNCs NCAA wins were during that stretch.
Breschi has been as good or better as any UNC coach, including Klarmann.
Willie Scroggs is of course the extreme outlier,
that guy was unreal.
Breschi is not as good as Tiffany, he’s not as good as Tillman, he’s not as good as Danowski — but Breschi is on par with Corrigan.
He got the extension.
Let’s see what happens with that, nothing will get settled now or even this year.
UNC made 18 Quarterfinals appearances over 21 years. You could argue that most of Duke's success has happened over a shorter period of time.10stone5 wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 8:16 pm Carolina is more similar to Princeton than the other ACC title holders, or Maryland, or Hopkins.
Aside from the Tierney years, Princeton is a contender, competitive, but hasn’t really threatened to win a national title.
Most of UNCs major success was compressed in that decade or so Willy Scroggs era — 4 national titles, 22 of UNCs NCAA wins were during that stretch.
Breschi has been as good or better as any UNC coach, including Klarmann.
Willie Scroggs is of course the extreme outlier,
that guy was unreal.
Breschi is not as good as Tiffany, he’s not as good as Tillman, he’s not as good as Danowski — but Breschi is on par with Corrigan.
He got the extension.
Let’s see what happens with that, nothing will get settled now or even this year.
I agree. We need to keep upping our game. The issue is that we have been in all aspects, EXCEPT coaching. Look at our facilities! Easily the best in the ACC... maybe even the country. We are heavily invested into this program, except we are unwilling to up our game where it matters most... and that is coaching.pcowlax wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 10:36 pm Interesting discussion. Someone earlier was pointing out the great (based on recruit rankings) classes Breschi has continued to bring in as evidence of his ongoing prowess. Others have pointed out those classes and the lack of commensurate results as evidence of his inability to develop players. I am right there with anyone who questions recruit rankings and stars. Yet there is also a lot to say that the other schools that consistently get the top ranked classes have the best results and many of those players becoming stars and AAs. Clearly, it is possible to recruit to UNC and not just by Breschi. What has changed since the 80s and 90s? Ask Hopkins that question. You now have more than 4 or 5 schools in the country who really care about winning at lacrosse and most of them have the resources to make it happen. That’s what has changed. You need to keep upping your game to even stay at the level of occasionally competing for a title, let alone be a perennial contender. For what ever reason, doesn’t seem to be happening in Chapel Hill.