ESPN Crew is Unlistenable

[MDlaxfan76]

What if Maryland loses?
(I don't think they will)

Seriously, on what basis can you claim that ND would have been there on Memorial Day or even Final 4 Saturday? They did not beat any of the tournament bound teams, two of which they lost to have already lost their first round match-ups. Only two left that they played all season are in the final 8. Only one will be in the Final Four.

I'm not arguing that there wasn't a case for them to be in the tourney as a bubble team, but claiming they'd be in the Final Four, much less Memorial Day, with any sort of confidence, is belied by their in-season performances...

Want to be in the tourney, win more games.
Don't lose all the games against the teams which do well.

Don't let it be a question.

If Maryland loses, the winner will hang a banner, and I doubt many will question it.

I'm not claiming that they would be in the Final Four, but they would have had a better chance than all of the other bubble teams and some of the seeded ones, too. As for evidence, there's all sorts of predictive measures like preseason betting odds, blue chip index, Massey ratings, and Lax-Elo. In particular, preseason rankings are useful predictors of postseason success. See here, for example.

ND did win games against a top-10 team, and the committee pretended those weren't quality wins despite the committee's own criteria.

pre-season rankings???

come on, you gotta win the games...or not.

Which "top 10" team did they beat? You mean one that didn't make the tournament either, but were once ranked in the Top 10 by the media polls?

Seriously, if you'd asked me to select and told me I could do it any way I wanted, I'd have chose ND over Harvard, but I might well chosen another school. Frankly, I didn't think either earned it.

But we're talking bubble regardless...ND simply didn't earn better than consideration on the bubble.

[Chousnake]

What if Maryland loses?
(I don't think they will)

Seriously, on what basis can you claim that ND would have been there on Memorial Day or even Final 4 Saturday? They did not beat any of the tournament bound teams, two of which they lost to have already lost their first round match-ups. Only two left that they played all season are in the final 8. Only one will be in the Final Four.

I'm not arguing that there wasn't a case for them to be in the tourney as a bubble team, but claiming they'd be in the Final Four, much less Memorial Day, with any sort of confidence, is belied by their in-season performances...

Want to be in the tourney, win more games.
Don't lose all the games against the teams which do well.

Don't let it be a question.

If Maryland loses, the winner will hang a banner, and I doubt many will question it.

I'm not claiming that they would be in the Final Four, but they would have had a better chance than all of the other bubble teams and some of the seeded ones, too. As for evidence, there's all sorts of predictive measures like preseason betting odds, blue chip index, Massey ratings, and Lax-Elo. In particular, preseason rankings are useful predictors of postseason success. See here, for example.

ND did win games against a top-10 team, and the committee pretended those weren't quality wins despite the committee's own criteria.

pre-season rankings???

come on, you gotta win the games...or not.

Which "top 10" team did they beat? You mean one that didn't make the tournament either, but were once ranked in the Top 10 by the media polls?

Seriously, if you'd asked me to select and told me I could do it any way I wanted, I'd have chose ND over Harvard, but I might well chosen another school. Frankly, I didn't think either earned it.

But we're talking bubble regardless...ND simply didn't earn better than consideration on the bubble.

I don't see how ND's resume was any better than OSU or Harvard or Duke or Army or any other bubble team. The one thing that does stand out to me in comparing OSU and ND is that pesky win OSU has over ND. I have always - always had an issue with the watering down of the significance of a head to head win in just these situations. When you compare the results of OSU vs ND, that win clearly tips the balance in OSU's favor.

Comparing Harvard vs ND is harder. I wouldn't have quarreled with ND's selection over Harvard, but I can see the reasoning behind Harvard getting the nod. The committee valued Harvard's wins over Princeton and Brown more than ND's wins over Duke.

I see no basis for concluding that the committee left a probable final four team out of the tourney. If ND does get in , they would not have been seeded. Were they really a lock to beat any seeded team - including Rutgers (assuming they take Harvard's spot)? I don't see them getting out of the first round when they couldn't beat a single team that made the tourney in the regular season.

Can we get back to the point of this thread though - which is how the ESPN #1 Crew of Q, C, and A is harming the tourney and the game with the constant whining about ND's early golf season?

[Wheels]

You've hit the nail on the head. The widespread bemoaning about how ND was a team with Final Four potential is just nonsense. If that "potential" applies to ND, it applies to about a dozen teams that made the tournament who all faired better against top competition. I do think ultimately ND should have made it over Harvard, but it's not because of some subjective impression of their potential.

BUT WHAT ABOUT NOTRE DAME'S LAST 6 WINS!!!

(The bold, italicized, and underlined text should demonstrate foot stomping, tantrum throwing, crying)

[wgdsr]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee. top wins and bad losses.

and also in osu's case, a plurality of the other official criteria.

they then even admitted they threw that out in notre dame's case.

not for last 6 games straight, eye test, acc middies or any other nonsense from the unlistenable espn crew.

[Chousnake]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee. top wins and bad losses.

and also in osu's case, a plurality of the other official criteria.

they then even admitted they threw that out in notre dame's case.

not for last 6 games straight, eye test, acc middies or any other nonsense from the unlistenable espn crew.

I'm not seeing it. I was just looking at ND's schedule and record again and I don't see a better resume at all. And I am not alone. Other than two squeakers against Duke, ND beat a bunch of bad and mediocre teams and lost to every good OOC team they played. So let's just agree to disagree and start paying attention to the 8 teams and 300+ players that actually earned a spot in this weekend's games on the field rather than in a formula or in someone's eye or thoughts or beliefs.

[wgdsr]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee. top wins and bad losses.

and also in osu's case, a plurality of the other official criteria.

they then even admitted they threw that out in notre dame's case.

not for last 6 games straight, eye test, acc middies or any other nonsense from the unlistenable espn crew.

I'm not seeing it. I was just looking at ND's schedule and record again and I don't see a better resume at all. And I am not alone. Other than two squeakers against Duke, ND beat a bunch of bad and mediocre teams and lost to every good OOC team they played. So let's just agree to disagree and start paying attention to the 8 teams and 300+ players that actually earned a spot in this weekend's games on the field rather than in a formula or in someone's eye or thoughts or beliefs.

not asking you to agree. i'd say that's objectively wrong but only if we ever knew what a committee was supposed to do besides be duplicitous. that eye test on their schedule would also reveal:
better wins than osu
better losses than osu, tho more marginally.
and those there are the priorities.
the wins part isn't marginal. unless they're thrown out.

i'm not alone, either. rob pannell, larken kemp, guys like that. and of course quint, carc and anish. this is the bash qca thread. i pledge not to perpetuate this discourse on the cornell, cornell vs delaware, or ohio state threads.

[Typical Lax Dad]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee. top wins and bad losses.

and also in osu's case, a plurality of the other official criteria.

they then even admitted they threw that out in notre dame's case.

not for last 6 games straight, eye test, acc middies or any other nonsense from the unlistenable espn crew.

I'm not seeing it. I was just looking at ND's schedule and record again and I don't see a better resume at all. And I am not alone. Other than two squeakers against Duke, ND beat a bunch of bad and mediocre teams and lost to every good OOC team they played. So let's just agree to disagree and start paying attention to the 8 teams and 300+ players that actually earned a spot in this weekend's games on the field rather than in a formula or in someone's eye or thoughts or beliefs.

not asking you to agree. i'd say that's objectively wrong but only if we ever knew what a committee was supposed to do besides be duplicitous. that eye test on their schedule would also reveal:
better wins than osu
better losses than osu, tho more marginally.
and those there are the priorities.
the wins part isn't marginal. unless they're thrown out.

i'm not alone, either. rob pannell, larken kemp, guys like that. and of course quint, carc and anish. this is the bash qca thread. i pledge not to perpetuate this discourse on the cornell, cornell vs delaware, or ohio state threads.

TOSU beat Harvard and ND. ND beat 1 decent team. Do
better……And it is QAC.

[wgdsr]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee. top wins and bad losses.

and also in osu's case, a plurality of the other official criteria.

they then even admitted they threw that out in notre dame's case.

not for last 6 games straight, eye test, acc middies or any other nonsense from the unlistenable espn crew.

I'm not seeing it. I was just looking at ND's schedule and record again and I don't see a better resume at all. And I am not alone. Other than two squeakers against Duke, ND beat a bunch of bad and mediocre teams and lost to every good OOC team they played. So let's just agree to disagree and start paying attention to the 8 teams and 300+ players that actually earned a spot in this weekend's games on the field rather than in a formula or in someone's eye or thoughts or beliefs.

not asking you to agree. i'd say that's objectively wrong but only if we ever knew what a committee was supposed to do besides be duplicitous. that eye test on their schedule would also reveal:
better wins than osu
better losses than osu, tho more marginally.
and those there are the priorities.
the wins part isn't marginal. unless they're thrown out.

i'm not alone, either. rob pannell, larken kemp, guys like that. and of course quint, carc and anish. this is the bash qca thread. i pledge not to perpetuate this discourse on the cornell, cornell vs delaware, or ohio state threads.

TOSU beat Harvard and ND. ND beat 1 decent team. Do
better……And it is QAC.

i know, man. everyone gets to write their own rules in this system. it's crazy.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What if Maryland loses?
(I don't think they will)

Seriously, on what basis can you claim that ND would have been there on Memorial Day or even Final 4 Saturday? They did not beat any of the tournament bound teams, two of which they lost to have already lost their first round match-ups. Only two left that they played all season are in the final 8. Only one will be in the Final Four.

I'm not arguing that there wasn't a case for them to be in the tourney as a bubble team, but claiming they'd be in the Final Four, much less Memorial Day, with any sort of confidence, is belied by their in-season performances...

Want to be in the tourney, win more games.
Don't lose all the games against the teams which do well.

Don't let it be a question.

If Maryland loses, the winner will hang a banner, and I doubt many will question it.

I'm not claiming that they would be in the Final Four, but they would have had a better chance than all of the other bubble teams and some of the seeded ones, too. As for evidence, there's all sorts of predictive measures like preseason betting odds, blue chip index, Massey ratings, and Lax-Elo. In particular, preseason rankings are useful predictors of postseason success. See here, for example.

ND did win games against a top-10 team, and the committee pretended those weren't quality wins despite the committee's own criteria.

pre-season rankings???

come on, you gotta win the games...or not.

Which "top 10" team did they beat? You mean one that didn't make the tournament either, but were once ranked in the Top 10 by the media polls?

Seriously, if you'd asked me to select and told me I could do it any way I wanted, I'd have chose ND over Harvard, but I might well chosen another school. Frankly, I didn't think either earned it.

But we're talking bubble regardless...ND simply didn't earn better than consideration on the bubble.

I don't see how ND's resume was any better than OSU or Harvard or Duke or Army or any other bubble team. The one thing that does stand out to me in comparing OSU and ND is that pesky win OSU has over ND. I have always - always had an issue with the watering down of the significance of a head to head win in just these situations. When you compare the results of OSU vs ND, that win clearly tips the balance in OSU's favor.

Comparing Harvard vs ND is harder. I wouldn't have quarreled with ND's selection over Harvard, but I can see the reasoning behind Harvard getting the nod. The committee valued Harvard's wins over Princeton and Brown more than ND's wins over Duke.

I see no basis for concluding that the committee left a probable final four team out of the tourney. If ND does get in , they would not have been seeded. Were they really a lock to beat any seeded team - including Rutgers (assuming they take Harvard's spot)? I don't see them getting out of the first round when they couldn't beat a single team that made the tourney in the regular season.

Can we get back to the point of this thread though - which is how the ESPN #1 Crew of Q, C, and A is harming the tourney and the game with the constant whining about ND's early golf season?

I never realized all it takes is to beat one “quality” team on your schedule and you are in the NCAA.

[Typical Lax Dad]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee. top wins and bad losses.

and also in osu's case, a plurality of the other official criteria.

they then even admitted they threw that out in notre dame's case.

not for last 6 games straight, eye test, acc middies or any other nonsense from the unlistenable espn crew.

I'm not seeing it. I was just looking at ND's schedule and record again and I don't see a better resume at all. And I am not alone. Other than two squeakers against Duke, ND beat a bunch of bad and mediocre teams and lost to every good OOC team they played. So let's just agree to disagree and start paying attention to the 8 teams and 300+ players that actually earned a spot in this weekend's games on the field rather than in a formula or in someone's eye or thoughts or beliefs.

not asking you to agree. i'd say that's objectively wrong but only if we ever knew what a committee was supposed to do besides be duplicitous. that eye test on their schedule would also reveal:
better wins than osu
better losses than osu, tho more marginally.
and those there are the priorities.
the wins part isn't marginal. unless they're thrown out.

i'm not alone, either. rob pannell, larken kemp, guys like that. and of course quint, carc and anish. this is the bash qca thread. i pledge not to perpetuate this discourse on the cornell, cornell vs delaware, or ohio state threads.

TOSU beat Harvard and ND. ND beat 1 decent team. Do
better……And it is QAC.

i know, man. everyone gets to write their own rules in this system. it's crazy.

It’s making sausage or sauce. Play better.

[CU77]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee.

Words don't matter, actions matter.

The committee decided ND was not worthy.

Their decision is not reviewable.

The game has ended.

[wgdsr]

nd's resume was better than osu's, and duke's, and army's, and every other bubble team not selected in the words of the selection committee.

Words don't matter, actions matter.

The committee decided ND was not worthy.

Their decision is not reviewable.

The game has ended.

actions matter, ya absolutely got that right.

[LaxPundit07]

Notre Dame got snubbed? Hadn’t heard….

[Cornell95]

It’s making sausage or sauce. Play better.

## Paul_Carcaterra has entered the chat ##
'First let's get this straight it's Sunday gravy not sauce...'

[ICGrad]

I never realized all it takes is to beat one “quality” team on your schedule and you are in the NCAA.

lol

You don't follow Hopkins lacrosse, do you?

[old salt]

Carc's getting a bum rap. I just stumbled across a recording of the 2005 PLT final, Army at Navy, on CSTV. Joe Beninati & Carc,

What a contrast. One of the best game calls I've ever witnessed. Smooth flow. You always knew which player had the ball, who was subbing in/out & what schemes were being run. Lots of background on the players & coaches. They both knew their stuff & conveyed it.

A lot of the heart burn is with the ESPN corporate schtick, playing to a different demo & trying to generate interest in a wider audience.
They know we lax purists are going to watch anyway, even if we have to hit [MUTE].

[PizzaSnake]

Carc's getting a bum rap. I just stumbled across a recording of the 2005 PLT final, Army at Navy, on CSTV. Joe Beninati & Carc,

What a contrast. One of the best game calls I've ever witnessed. Smooth flow. You always knew which player had the ball, who was subbing in/out & what schemes were being run. Lots of background on the players & coaches. They both knew their stuff & conveyed it.

A lot of the heart burn is with the ESPN corporate schtick, playing to a different demo & trying to generate interest in a wider audience.
They know we lax purists are going to watch anyway, even if we have to hit [MUTE].

2005...

[old salt]

Carc's getting a bum rap. I just stumbled across a recording of the 2005 PLT final, Army at Navy, on CSTV. Joe Beninati & Carc,

What a contrast. One of the best game calls I've ever witnessed. Smooth flow. You always knew which player had the ball, who was subbing in/out & what schemes were being run. Lots of background on the players & coaches. They both knew their stuff & conveyed it.

A lot of the heart burn is with the ESPN corporate schtick, playing to a different demo & trying to generate interest in a wider audience.
They know we lax purists are going to watch anyway, even if we have to hit [MUTE].

2005...

old aftermarket dvr cache -- recorded from old vhs tape. ...no wooden sticks in use.

[PizzaSnake]

Carc's getting a bum rap. I just stumbled across a recording of the 2005 PLT final, Army at Navy, on CSTV. Joe Beninati & Carc,

What a contrast. One of the best game calls I've ever witnessed. Smooth flow. You always knew which player had the ball, who was subbing in/out & what schemes were being run. Lots of background on the players & coaches. They both knew their stuff & conveyed it.

A lot of the heart burn is with the ESPN corporate schtick, playing to a different demo & trying to generate interest in a wider audience.
They know we lax purists are going to watch anyway, even if we have to hit [MUTE].

2005...

old aftermarket dvr cache -- recorded from old vhs tape. ...no wooden sticks in use.

He hasn't aged well.

[MoralTerpitude]

Carc's getting a bum rap. I just stumbled across a recording of the 2005 PLT final, Army at Navy, on CSTV. Joe Beninati & Carc,

What a contrast. One of the best game calls I've ever witnessed. Smooth flow. You always knew which player had the ball, who was subbing in/out & what schemes were being run. Lots of background on the players & coaches. They both knew their stuff & conveyed it.

A lot of the heart burn is with the ESPN corporate schtick, playing to a different demo & trying to generate interest in a wider audience.
They know we lax purists are going to watch anyway, even if we have to hit [MUTE].

I can believe it.