Ivy League

[Mid-Lax]

Yes, fifth year option to be a graduate student.
(was editing my response when I saw your reply...no major changes)

[Mid-Lax]

Well, here is a view from the 'Johns Hopkins 2021' (post by Sagittarius A* » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:37 pm): 'I wouldn't mind seeing a mass exodus out of the Ivy league myself.'

So, this is where a Hopkins lacrosse is at.

[calourie]

Ivies should come up with their guidelines expeditiously as it will enable their students to firm up their plans for the future taking all the options available into account. The national and global jobs outlook is going to remain cloudy for an undetermined amount of time which might well make extended school time more attractive, but only so for those in the Ivies if that is ruled an actual possibility. If the Ivies were to allow the option to finish up school sometime in the upcoming year as well as participate in athletics it wouldn't surprise me to see some Ivy lax seniors opt to come back in the spring to the teams that reasonably think they have a shot at a Natty championship

[thetruth]

It is being estimated that Ivy endowments may have suffered more than $30 billion in losses over the past 3 weeks. Fundraising prospects at these schools have been significantly diminished. It is still even unclear when campuses will open again and if it will be in time for the start of the 20-21 school year. It is not out of the question that these schools (and others) start the 20-21 school year online with an impact to the fall sports. The Ivies are in crisis mode and they are the most financially sound educational institutions in the country.
While I appreciate the desire for the Ivies to figure this out quickly, they are in triage trying to figure out the longer term impact to their institutions as whole. It will be massive.
It is also unclear as to what exactly the NCAA is going to do with regard to 5th years as they have yet to define what "eligibility relief" actually means. Is it a full year or a portion of the year? Given most players played approximately 40% of their regular season, it would seem that the latter would make the most sense to be fair not only to the athletes affected, but the athletes incoming over the next 3-4 years many of whom will have missed their entire high school spring seasons, not just a portion.
Given the magnitude of what the world is dealing with and the impact it is having on higher education and even the NCAA outside of spring sports (football and basketball are each more important than all of the other sports combined for the NCAA), I'm not sure this is something either the Ivies or the NCAA is going to be able to focus on quickly. They have much bigger issues in front of them. Also, the potential for serious unintended consequences of rushing an ill conceived policy could have significantly negative ramifications.
Keep in mind, the NCAA not only governs the eligibility of the college athletes, but also the future college eligibility of high school athletes. To the extent the NCAA passes a rule that is inequitable to one of those groups, they will end up with a court battle on their hands. There are more well funded litigious parents in the high school community than college.
Same goes for the Ivies. This is not an easy solution and every college and university in the country is in crisis mode. There are some that will not survive this.
So, if I were the parent of a senior playing lacrosse in the Ivies I would tell them to focus on school and graduating because you may not get an answer from anyone quickly. And even if you do, who knows how it is actually implemented by the schools, athletics departments, coaches and teams. There will be capacity impacts, financial aid impacts, equity impacts and Title IX impacts, all of which will dictate how the rules are interpreted and implemented. This is going to be highly complicated and not a guarantee of any extra year for anyone. Even the best of the best.
If you focus on your school work and graduating, then if you are really really good, there will probably be an opportunity for you to play somewhere for someone for as many games as the NCAA permits. With the best talents getting the best opportunities.
Finally, if I was the parent of a senior who had a job offer, I would tell them to take it. The job market will be much worse next year for graduates as all of the large institutions committed to graduating hires well before this crisis hit which will severely impact job prospects for that group next year.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Ivies should come up with their guidelines expeditiously as it will enable their students to firm up their plans for the future taking all the options available into account. The national and global jobs outlook is going to remain cloudy for an undetermined amount of time which might well make extended school time more attractive, but only so for those in the Ivies if that is ruled an actual possibility. If the Ivies were to allow the option to finish up school sometime in the upcoming year as well as participate in athletics it wouldn't surprise me to see some Ivy lax seniors opt to come back in the spring to the teams that reasonably think they have a shot at a Natty championship

Senior players have the option to withdraw and come back next Spring. Graduating this Spring seems more problematic for players to come back.

[calourie]

Is that the official stance of the Ivies, TLD ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Is that the official stance of the Ivies, TLD ?

I believe the standing rule has been that a player can withdraw and come back to retain eligibility if granted a redshirt for a given year. Not sure anything has changed since the NCAA has granted everyone a 5th year. With more notice, underclass men can plan accordingly for perhaps a graduate program. My gut tells me many of the underclassmen will move on and graduate without taking a 5th year but some will take 1 year programs at other schools and a handful may stay on for a graduate program at their Ivy School.

[QuakerSouth]

Do you know what kind of 1 year or 1 semester grad programs that may be available at any of the Ivies? I don't know if there is anything...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Do you know what kind of 1 year or 1 semester grad programs that may be available at any of the Ivies? I don't know if there is anything...

Neither do I. ND and Duke have them. Not sure who else but I imagine there are others.

[QuakerSouth]

I mean, one year...there's not really anything reputable/worthwhile you can do in 1 year. That's a tall order to fulfill at an Ivy. What you could see is a guy who was already planning/accepted to a longer program like MBA, JD---at his/her undergraduate school. Thats pretty long odds, however, that a current undergraduate on the lax team, who gets a 5th year of eligibility, also happened to be already admitted to the MBA or JD program.

A stretch.

Can that be "manufactured" at this late date? I don't know. Its awfully hard to be admitted into Wharton, HBS, Tuck, or any of the Ivy law schools during the regular admit period. Trying to get an athlete admitted "late" because they are granted an extra year to play? I can see any of those Deans saying they want students who are committed to their programs, not a student splitting time with the lacrosse team. At the very least, any student looking to at the graduate sitchy better have their GMAT, LSAT, or GRE test already done and scored. If they have to take them now? When will the first opportunity be for that in this environment?

I've been saying all along this is very complex. Its late in the game, and its a mess. Most athletes have their next move/job lined up by this time, and if they played their hand right, its probably a pretty good one.

[calourie]

IIRC Chris Keating took a full year off from school after a slow recovering knee blowout, and came back year later to be the defensive anchor of Yale's championship team. I have no idea how applicable that example is compared to returning after a 1/3 completed final semester and season.

[bearlaxfan]

Brown's Matt Graham was a Michigan transfer, starting middie on the '16 FF team listed as a senior, but played on the '17 team as a senior also. The transfer must have jiggered his start date/credits, and the obvious assumption (when you assume you make an ass out of u and me) is that he withdrew fall '17 and finished up spring '17.

[NElaxtalent]

Agree with most of the prior posters.

Said another way, whatever is bring proposed out of well-intentioned concern "for the Seniors" is unlikely to affect most of the Seniors.

However, if add'l years are granted to all current athletes, it will have FAR greater (mostly negative) impact on 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 & 2026 kids (aka 2022 HS grads). The '21-'23 athletes will have adequate time to plan to use the 5th year, via a 3-2 or 4+1 dual degree or masters effectively creating a logjam for the' 24-'25 classes.

The "fix" is likely to cause more PT/recruiting frustration than it actually fixes for Srs.

[Typical Lax Dad]

IIRC Chris Keating took a full year off from school after a slow recovering knee blowout, and came back year later to be the defensive anchor of Yale's championship team. I have no idea how applicable that example is compared to returning after a 1/3 completed final semester and season.

Pannel withdrew very late at Cornell and came back. My guess is most of the seniors granted a 5th year will move on but some may come back. Some can put the starts of their lives after college on pause for a year. Still likely to have a "good" outcome. Time will tell.

[Mid-Lax]

Yes, I know those examples of players withdrawing early and way late to come back and play a fifth year Spring semester. That is an option available now and I am sure the league will grant the waiver. However, the Ivies should consider granting the fifth year graduate exemption and I posted earlier, even consider some special circumstance partial financial aid. This is truly different for student-athletes.

As for the 'Ives are really hurting', I don't view them as any different than any other school, except that the Ivies are in much better very sustainable positions. They aren't running out of funds any time soon. For the Spring semester, are any of the Ives refunding tuition? No. What about 2/3 or 1/2 room and board refund or credit? As I understand the answer, at least for now, is also no (wow). Yes, the endowments are way down, but, so is everyone's savings and investments. The endowments will recover, with some correction, after the sustained period of this crisis. My question is, how will the Ivies respond to this crisis and change for the better?

[Farfromgeneva]

I got an mba before my 26th birthday and realize I should’ve had more real world work experience when I did, more than just A to A type banking. How does getting an MBA straight out of undergrad add any value other than the letters on a resume? It’s a degree for people looking to move within and through middle management of businesses. (I also have a number of friends who trained to Philly for weekends to get a exec MBa at Wharton and think those degrees are worthless but that’s just me).

[Matnum PI]

There was a guy at B-School who was straight-out-of-college. We had LOTS of group projects and nobody wanted to work with the guy. Just had very little to offer. Graduated with us and got a job at S&P. Good job but I think he would've gotten a very different job (not better, not worse, just different) if he waited before going to B-school. For many, B-school is a way to go from Job A to Job Q. e.g. A guy went from working at an ad agency to working in finance. No way he could've done this without the MBA and Summer Internship. For the straight-out-of-college, you'll go from no Job to Job whatever. My suggestion would be to work fr a bit, see what you like, don't like, etc. and then get the MBA. Otherwise, you're just wasting your Get Out of Jail Free card.

[Matnum PI]

[calourie]

Wonderful photo, Matt.

[Farfromgeneva]

There was a guy at B-School who was straight-out-of-college. We had LOTS of group projects and nobody wanted to work with the guy. Just had very little to offer. Graduated with us and got a job at S&P. Good job but I think he would've gotten a very different job (not better, not worse, just different) if he waited before going to B-school. For many, B-school is a way to go from Job A to Job Q. e.g. A guy went from working at an ad agency to working in finance. No way he could've done this without the MBA and Summer Internship. For the straight-out-of-college, you'll go from no Job to Job whatever. My suggestion would be to work fr a bit, see what you like, don't like, etc. and then get the MBA. Otherwise, you're just wasting your Get Out of Jail Free card.

That’s partially how I viewed an MBA, a job switch “get out of jail free” card myself which I regretted blowing early on but at least got myself a front office gig in NYC that justified the $80k I borrowed and did have about 2.5yrs of experience going in and worked semi full time in a CRE gig while in school to keep learning.

My thought is an MBA can still be obtained down the road but maybe a MS in finance/accounting/economics would be better as an immediate plug to keep the college lax train going.