LaxPower Back-Up Stick

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:25 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:43 am From CNN:

(CNN)Growing up in the South, Robert P. Jones attended Southern Baptist churches, Sunday schools, even a Southern Baptist college.

But it was only in seminary, in his mid-20s, that Jones says he learned the full truth about Southern Baptists' white supremacist roots. The denomination was founded to defend slavery and did not formally rebuke its past until 1995, when Southern Baptists voted to apologize for their history of racism.

Jones was a social scientist before he realized how stubbornly racist ideas can persist in white churches.
"White Christian churches have not just been complacent; they have not only been complicit," he writes in his book, "White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity," publishing next month.

... "Rather, as the dominant cultural power in America, they have been responsible for constructing and sustaining a project to protect white supremacy and resist black equality," he writes. "This project has framed the entire American story."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/white ... index.html

DocBarrister

I’m curious as to when you first learned of the Tulsa Massacre of 1921. An astonishing sad story that had for too long been suppressed. Promises of restitution broken, bogus investigations, no charges or arrests.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:05 pm Don't think George Washington or Thomas Jefferson have anything to worry about. Don't like Nathan Bedford Forrest's odds.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:06 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 pm https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... rity-down/

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:21 pm bit of conflation with 'globalism' going on in that list, but the fundamental point is valid about the haves and have nots, the capital class and the working class.

Globalism and technology are forces that are pretty much an inevitable part of reality of the future, (unless you want to crush/stagnate the world's economy)...how they are managed to provide equity is another matter altogether.

you are naive or trying to make yourself feel better. Globalism is important to the powerful for one reason only - money. It is cheaper to "employ" Chinese/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Mexican/Costa Rican labor than it would be to house and feed slaves in the US. That is why globalism is "important". THAT is why the elite class will die on the hill of pushing globalism as their utopian fantasy.

Don't kid yourself that I don't actually understand that argument.

I just don't see those folks in other countries as less deserving of competing for work than their competitors in the US. And I'm in favor of international systems that enhance that possibility, not discourage it.

Now, if you want to discuss how we, as a nation, best serve our own citizens to win that competition, I'm all for such discussion.

But I don't see 'globalism', nor technology, as the enemy...they're inevitable realities that are far more beneficial than detrimental, in and of themselves. But like capitalism, they need rules and regulations, as, unfettered, they can, and indeed will, run amok.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:49 pm NCAA goes after the stars and bars in Mississippi.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:06 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:49 pm NCAA goes after the stars and bars in Mississippi.

Stars & Bars does not refer to the Confederate Battle Flag.

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:05 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:06 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 pm https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... rity-down/

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:21 pm bit of conflation with 'globalism' going on in that list, but the fundamental point is valid about the haves and have nots, the capital class and the working class.

Globalism and technology are forces that are pretty much an inevitable part of reality of the future, (unless you want to crush/stagnate the world's economy)...how they are managed to provide equity is another matter altogether.

you are naive or trying to make yourself feel better. Globalism is important to the powerful for one reason only - money. It is cheaper to "employ" Chinese/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Mexican/Costa Rican labor than it would be to house and feed slaves in the US. That is why globalism is "important". THAT is why the elite class will die on the hill of pushing globalism as their utopian fantasy.

Don't kid yourself that I don't actually understand that argument.

I just don't see those folks in other countries as less deserving of competing for work than their competitors in the US. And I'm in favor of international systems that enhance that possibility, not discourage it.

Now, if you want to discuss how we, as a nation, best serve our own citizens to win that competition, I'm all for such discussion.

But I don't see 'globalism', nor technology, as the enemy...they're inevitable realities that are far more beneficial than detrimental, in and of themselves. But like capitalism, they need rules and regulations, as, unfettered, they can, and indeed will, run amok.

When I use the term "globalism" I am referring to globalism as it exists in the real world. The breadth of modes of operation within the concept of international trade is very different and of course can have very good outcomes for everyone involved. It just is not reality - and I am of the thought that we should deal with reality. The world does not have to be a zero sum game - it is just treated that way by those who can most afford not to (and I mean by all those in power not just capitalists). Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Billion of dollars or million of lives at your command is effectively the equivalent of absolute power within our ability to conceive it.

ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:56 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:54 pm

ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:14 pm

jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:05 pm Don't think George Washington or Thomas Jefferson have anything to worry about. Don't like Nathan Bedford Forrest's odds.

but they should, no? they're both racists. both enslaved people of color. and maybe worse.

why the pass?

does LBJ get a pass for using the N word?
robert byrd recruiting to the local KKK chapter?
hugo black joins the klan because he "would have joined any group if it helped get me votes"???

Because although some believe all racists (slave holders) should be purged, there are clearly degrees and mitigation. There will be arguments, but the arguments against Washington and Jefferson will be lost by those who believe they should lose their honorifics. Same for LBJ most likely. Also remember none of these folks are being written out of history. Honorific statues and portraits are what are being attacked (by some - not all).

and that's all im asking. why some, and not others. thanks 72.

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:05 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:06 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 pm https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... rity-down/

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:21 pm bit of conflation with 'globalism' going on in that list, but the fundamental point is valid about the haves and have nots, the capital class and the working class.

Globalism and technology are forces that are pretty much an inevitable part of reality of the future, (unless you want to crush/stagnate the world's economy)...how they are managed to provide equity is another matter altogether.

you are naive or trying to make yourself feel better. Globalism is important to the powerful for one reason only - money. It is cheaper to "employ" Chinese/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Mexican/Costa Rican labor than it would be to house and feed slaves in the US. That is why globalism is "important". THAT is why the elite class will die on the hill of pushing globalism as their utopian fantasy.

Don't kid yourself that I don't actually understand that argument.

I just don't see those folks in other countries as less deserving of competing for work than their competitors in the US. And I'm in favor of international systems that enhance that possibility, not discourage it.

Now, if you want to discuss how we, as a nation, best serve our own citizens to win that competition, I'm all for such discussion.

But I don't see 'globalism', nor technology, as the enemy...they're inevitable realities that are far more beneficial than detrimental, in and of themselves. But like capitalism, they need rules and regulations, as, unfettered, they can, and indeed will, run amok.

When I use the term "globalism" I am referring to globalism as it exists in the real world. The breadth of modes of operation within the concept of international trade is very different and of course can have very good outcomes for everyone involved. It just is not reality - and I am of the thought that we should deal with reality. The world does not have to be a zero sum game - it is just treated that way by those who can most afford not to (and I mean by all those in power not just capitalists). Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Billion of dollars or million of lives at your command is effectively the equivalent of absolute power within our ability to conceive it.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:05 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:06 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:59 pm https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... rity-down/

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:21 pm bit of conflation with 'globalism' going on in that list, but the fundamental point is valid about the haves and have nots, the capital class and the working class.

Globalism and technology are forces that are pretty much an inevitable part of reality of the future, (unless you want to crush/stagnate the world's economy)...how they are managed to provide equity is another matter altogether.

you are naive or trying to make yourself feel better. Globalism is important to the powerful for one reason only - money. It is cheaper to "employ" Chinese/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Mexican/Costa Rican labor than it would be to house and feed slaves in the US. That is why globalism is "important". THAT is why the elite class will die on the hill of pushing globalism as their utopian fantasy.

Don't kid yourself that I don't actually understand that argument.

I just don't see those folks in other countries as less deserving of competing for work than their competitors in the US. And I'm in favor of international systems that enhance that possibility, not discourage it.

Now, if you want to discuss how we, as a nation, best serve our own citizens to win that competition, I'm all for such discussion.

But I don't see 'globalism', nor technology, as the enemy...they're inevitable realities that are far more beneficial than detrimental, in and of themselves. But like capitalism, they need rules and regulations, as, unfettered, they can, and indeed will, run amok.

When I use the term "globalism" I am referring to globalism as it exists in the real world. The breadth of modes of operation within the concept of international trade is very different and of course can have very good outcomes for everyone involved. It just is not reality - and I am of the thought that we should deal with reality. The world does not have to be a zero sum game - it is just treated that way by those who can most afford not to (and I mean by all those in power not just capitalists). Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Billion of dollars or million of lives at your command is effectively the equivalent of absolute power within our ability to conceive it.

We would benefit from emulating the safeguards that Germany & France have maintained for their manufacturing & ag sectors.
Nobody's accusing them of being anti-globalist.
It would be good if we could leverage NAFTA the way they have used the EU but we're too dependent of Mexico's cheap labor, corruption & lower enviro standards.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm We would benefit from emulating the safeguards that Germany & France have maintained for their manufacturing & ag sectors.
Nobody's accusing them of being anti-globalist.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:11 pm Do you believe that globalization was an alternative to slave labor? It was less expensive than housing and feeding slaves so it made more economic sense? That’s how we got to globalization?

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:21 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm We would benefit from emulating the safeguards that Germany & France have maintained for their manufacturing & ag sectors.
Nobody's accusing them of being anti-globalist.
It would be good if we could leverage NAFTA the way they have used the EU but we're too dependent of Mexico's cheap labor, corruption & lower enviro standards.

That’s liberal talk.

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:11 pm Do you believe that globalization was an alternative to slave labor? It was less expensive than housing and feeding slaves so it made more economic sense? That’s how we got to globalization?

Do I believe a bunch of people sat in a star chamber somewhere and designed globalism as a way to replace slavery? -- No.

Do I believe it doesn't matter, because it may as well have happened that way? -- yes.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:21 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm We would benefit from emulating the safeguards that Germany & France have maintained for their manufacturing & ag sectors.
Nobody's accusing them of being anti-globalist.
It would be good if we could leverage NAFTA the way they have used the EU but we're too dependent of Mexico's cheap labor, corruption & lower enviro standards.

That’s liberal talk.

Yes, reasonable safeguards would be nice. So would a consumer class that actually cared about human rights more than cheap tv's and tennis shoes. But most people only care about that kind of stuff when they can post it on social media.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:00 pm

ardilla secreta wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:25 pm

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:43 am From CNN:

(CNN)Growing up in the South, Robert P. Jones attended Southern Baptist churches, Sunday schools, even a Southern Baptist college.

But it was only in seminary, in his mid-20s, that Jones says he learned the full truth about Southern Baptists' white supremacist roots. The denomination was founded to defend slavery and did not formally rebuke its past until 1995, when Southern Baptists voted to apologize for their history of racism.

Jones was a social scientist before he realized how stubbornly racist ideas can persist in white churches.
"White Christian churches have not just been complacent; they have not only been complicit," he writes in his book, "White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity," publishing next month.

... "Rather, as the dominant cultural power in America, they have been responsible for constructing and sustaining a project to protect white supremacy and resist black equality," he writes. "This project has framed the entire American story."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/white ... index.html

DocBarrister

I’m curious as to when you first learned of the Tulsa Massacre of 1921. An astonishing sad story that had for too long been suppressed. Promises of restitution broken, bogus investigations, no charges or arrests.

For a lot of people it honestly would be the Watchmen show that was on HBO last and this year.

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:27 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm We would benefit from emulating the safeguards that Germany & France have maintained for their manufacturing & ag sectors.
Nobody's accusing them of being anti-globalist.

No, instead they're accused of being pinko-socialists by the millionaire talking heads at FoxNation.

But as you know, I agree with you 100%: if the actual, real goal is to protect good jobs of the bottom 75% of American workers? You unionize everything. Across the board.

Republicans, in particular, don't want to do that. Clinton-Corporate Democrats don't want that either.

So what now?

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:35 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:27 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:19 pm We would benefit from emulating the safeguards that Germany & France have maintained for their manufacturing & ag sectors.
Nobody's accusing them of being anti-globalist.

No, instead they're accused of being pinko-socialists by the millionaire talking heads at FoxNation.

But as you know, I agree with you 100%: if the actual, real goal is to protect good jobs of the bottom 75% of American workers? You unionize everything. Across the board.

Republicans, in particular, don't want to do that. Clinton-Corporate Democrats don't want that either.

So what now?

to be fair, the only counter argument from the millionaires at CNN and in both political parties is not about real pay for real blue collar jobs (spare me the $15 minimum wage) but instead they call for unlimited illegal immigration so that they can have local workers to exploit....

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:35 pm to be fair, the only counter argument from the millionaires at CNN and in both political parties is not about real pay for real blue collar jobs (spare me the $15 minimum wage)

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:27 pm Republicans, in particular, don't want to do that. Clinton-Corporate Democrats don't want that either.

HooDat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:35 pm but instead they call for unlimited illegal immigration so that they can have local workers to exploit....

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:50 pm That's on both parties-----as they "pretend" to want immigration reform for going on 30 years now.

And Trump and the R's "accidentally" forgot to pass the immigration reform bill that Trump run o