Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I believed thirty years ago that some level of protectionism was good if markets didn’t reciprocate or if foreign government subsidies tilted the playing field. Our economy has been transformed. I want our human capital to flow towards higher paying skills / jobs. Green technology, for instance, is job creation. I worked with several manufacturers and fuel and energy efficiency has led to more jobs that pay more as well. I don’t want an agrarian based labor pool here. I want more value added. I have been pro labor pretty much all my life. I know all to well what shipping out jobs to maximize shareholder value has led to. Given where we are today, reducing immigration won’t lead to economic growth that we need to maintain, let alone increase the standard of living here. But maybe China will send jobs over here one day….you think that would be a good thing? China and Asia Pacific rim sending work to the USA?

I am sorry but this is nonsense. You basically just said "learn to code".

I believe in learning how to learn. That’s my view. You can believe in learning enough to have a permanent serf class.

[HooDat]

I believed thirty years ago that some level of protectionism was good if markets didn’t reciprocate or if foreign government subsidies tilted the playing field. Our economy has been transformed. I want our human capital to flow towards higher paying skills / jobs. Green technology, for instance, is job creation. I worked with several manufacturers and fuel and energy efficiency has led to more jobs that pay more as well. I don’t want an agrarian based labor pool here. I want more value added. I have been pro labor pretty much all my life. I know all to well what shipping out jobs to maximize shareholder value has led to. Given where we are today, reducing immigration won’t lead to economic growth that we need to maintain, let alone increase the standard of living here. But maybe China will send jobs over here one day….you think that would be a good thing? China and Asia Pacific rim sending work to the USA?

I am sorry but this is nonsense. You basically just said "learn to code".

I believe in learning how to learn. That’s my view. You can believe in learning enough to have a serf class.

You can believe in unicorns too, but it doesn't change the fact that it takes at least half a generation to retrain a workforce.

And farm workers wouldn't be a serf class if they were paid a decent wage.

I am curious what you mean when you say that you "don't want an agrarian based labor pool here". You don't want to grow our own food in some of the best farm land in the world? Why? Or are you just saying you don't want those kinds of people living here? Where exactly do you think those workers are living? Are the jobs unworthy? Are you saying you prefer thinking about illegal immigrants doing that work because is is somehow beneath US citizens and legal immigrants? You would rather "our" people work on a factory floors manufacturing solar panels? Because somehow that is more virtuous work?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I believed thirty years ago that some level of protectionism was good if markets didn’t reciprocate or if foreign government subsidies tilted the playing field. Our economy has been transformed. I want our human capital to flow towards higher paying skills / jobs. Green technology, for instance, is job creation. I worked with several manufacturers and fuel and energy efficiency has led to more jobs that pay more as well. I don’t want an agrarian based labor pool here. I want more value added. I have been pro labor pretty much all my life. I know all to well what shipping out jobs to maximize shareholder value has led to. Given where we are today, reducing immigration won’t lead to economic growth that we need to maintain, let alone increase the standard of living here. But maybe China will send jobs over here one day….you think that would be a good thing? China and Asia Pacific rim sending work to the USA?

I am sorry but this is nonsense. You basically just said "learn to code".

I believe in learning how to learn. That’s my view. You can believe in learning enough to have a serf class.

You can believe in unicorns too, but it doesn't change the fact that it takes at least half a generation to retrain a workforce.

And farm workers wouldn't be a serf class if they were paid a decent wage.

I am curious what you mean when you say that you "don't want an agrarian based labor pool here". You don't want to grow our own food in some of the best farm land in the world? Why? Or are you just saying you don't want those kinds of people living here? Where exactly do you think those workers are living? Are the jobs unworthy? Are you saying you prefer thinking about illegal immigrants doing that work because is is somehow beneath US citizens and legal immigrants? You would rather "our" people work on a factory floors manufacturing solar panels? Because somehow that is more virtuous work?

The industrial revolution didn’t happen over night. I don’t know why you keep bringing up illegal immigration. We need more immigration. Figure out how to make it more efficient. I am not pro crime.

[HooDat]

The industrial revolution didn’t happen over night. I don’t know why you keep bringing up illegal immigration. We need more immigration. Figure out how to make it more efficient. I am not pro crime.

Because the VERY first thing I said on this topic was that you have to separate legal and illegal immigration.

First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

My entire rant was about ILLEGAL immigration. It is illegal workers that have NO negotiating leverage thereby creating downward pressure on wages.

[MDlaxfan76]

I believed thirty years ago that some level of protectionism was good if markets didn’t reciprocate or if foreign government subsidies tilted the playing field. Our economy has been transformed. I want our human capital to flow towards higher paying skills / jobs. Green technology, for instance, is job creation. I worked with several manufacturers and fuel and energy efficiency has led to more jobs that pay more as well. I don’t want an agrarian based labor pool here. I want more value added. I have been pro labor pretty much all my life. I know all to well what shipping out jobs to maximize shareholder value has led to. Given where we are today, reducing immigration won’t lead to economic growth that we need to maintain, let alone increase the standard of living here. But maybe China will send jobs over here one day….you think that would be a good thing? China and Asia Pacific rim sending work to the USA?

I am sorry but this is nonsense. You basically just said "learn to code".

I believe in learning how to learn. That’s my view. You can believe in learning enough to have a serf class.

You can believe in unicorns too, but it doesn't change the fact that it takes at least half a generation to retrain a workforce.

And farm workers wouldn't be a serf class if they were paid a decent wage.

I am curious what you mean when you say that you "don't want an agrarian based labor pool here". You don't want to grow our own food in some of the best farm land in the world? Why? Or are you just saying you don't want those kinds of people living here? Where exactly do you think those workers are living? Are the jobs unworthy? Are you saying you prefer thinking about illegal immigrants doing that work because is is somehow beneath US citizens and legal immigrants? You would rather "our" people work on a factory floors manufacturing solar panels? Because somehow that is more virtuous work?

Is that really what you read into TLD's comments?

I read that we want to have an economy in which labor is highly productive and highly paid for that productivity. It ain't picking cotton (or whatever)...invent some machines to pick the cotton, people build the machines, repair the machines, build some smarter machines, develop a technology that reduces the water necessary to grow cotton, invent a technology that creates 'cotton' without farmland, without water waste or pollution...invent, create...

It's an ever evolving process.

As I read TLD, he's simply saying, let's stay ahead of that curve, attracting the most ambitious, entrepreneurial, most freedom loving to our economy and embrace their creativity and drive. Invest in our educational system, invest in our creative system, invest in re-training...etc, etc.

Of course, I may just be 'seeing' my own views...

[HooDat]

invest in our creative system, invest in re-training...etc, etc

That's all fine and dandy - but what we were talking about were the real jobs happening today and that will be happening over our lifetimes. Of course we want technological improvements that enhance productivity.

But ask yourself - why haven't there been any industry shifting changes in tech in the ag space? Other than Monsanto patenting seeds so that farmers who have them blow onto their fields from a neighbors farm get sued by them....

Why are we still picking lettuce by hand? I will tell you why - since it is so cheap to pay illegal day labor $2 a day to do the work, no one is spending time inventing the lettuce equivalent of the cotton gin.

....Then we can have the conversation about our education system that is doing NONE of the training you are talking about

[MDlaxfan76]

invest in our creative system, invest in re-training...etc, etc

That's all fine and dandy - but what we were talking about were the real jobs happening today and that will be happening over our lifetimes. Of course we want technological improvements that enhance productivity.

But ask yourself - why haven't there been any industry shifting changes in tech in the ag space? Other than Monsanto patenting seeds so that farmers who have them blow onto their fields from a neighbors farm get sued by them....

Why are we still picking lettuce by hand? I will tell you why - since it is so cheap to pay illegal day labor $2 a day to do the work, no one is spending time inventing the lettuce equivalent of the cotton gin.

....Then we can have the conversation about our education system that is doing NONE of the training you are talking about

Actually, there's a big ag-tech evolution happening.
In the past couple of decades of evolution, we have all sorts of technology deployed in the optimization of food production per acre, from automated tractors, and watering systems, to sensors for soil, weather, etc. How many workers per acre now versus a couple of decades ago? Versus 50 years ago?

And there's all sorts of new food production techniques being pioneered, from meat to vertical farming. It's still a small slice of the overall, but expect that to grow a lot.

But I understand your argument that we should be paying migrant workers more. We should have a legal system that enables and enforces this to happen, including migrant immigrant workers.

On the education system, I'd like to see much more investment, but we DO develop a much more creative and entrepreneurial workforce than do many of our primary competitors. We don't insist on conformity, we encourage questioning...not perfectly, but way better than say the Chinese...our problem there is that they have a darn lot of people...some are going to be creative, and some is a big #, though the system makes it difficult.

that's why I think we need have wide open doors to the most creative, entrepreneurial, driven, freedom loving people from around the world...and many of those are going to be the children of immigrants with relatively less obvious immediate attributes...others, though, are the youngsters who come for our education...keep'em.

[Typical Lax Dad]

invest in our creative system, invest in re-training...etc, etc

That's all fine and dandy - but what we were talking about were the real jobs happening today and that will be happening over our lifetimes. Of course we want technological improvements that enhance productivity.

But ask yourself - why haven't there been any industry shifting changes in tech in the ag space? Other than Monsanto patenting seeds so that farmers who have them blow onto their fields from a neighbors farm get sued by them....

Why are we still picking lettuce by hand? I will tell you why - since it is so cheap to pay illegal day labor $2 a day to do the work, no one is spending time inventing the lettuce equivalent of the cotton gin.

....Then we can have the conversation about our education system that is doing NONE of the training you are talking about

“Our lifetime” isn’t the measure….unfortunately. Domestic example. Intel building huge chip plant in Ohio. Going to create a ton of jobs….well it won’t be Ohioans. The area doesn’t have enough of the skilled labor needed even for construction. Actually, the low paying “construction” jobs will come from the central Ohio area…. the high paying expertise coming from “migrants” from other states. It would be nice if the workforce had been trained up…. Would have provided more money for more residents….unfortunately the highly paid labor will be taking their money back to places like DMV, Chicago, Charlotte etc. Can spend it on nicer homes in nicer areas and have their taxes support a better school system so the upwardly mobile cycle has a better chance of succeeding.

Didn’t the cotton gin replace a lot of free labor?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Illegal immigrants make up 4% of the workforce. After we get rid of that 4%, what’s next? That’s should get us to 4-5% GDP growth annually. Illegal immigrants are a drag on the economy.

[PizzaSnake]

PS those wages are market clearing.

it is a manipulated market.

Dems see handwriting on wall and realize that "immigration reform" is dead in the water...

Do you remember that differently, Hoo?

Set aside all the rest, E-Verify, border security, etc., etc...on the issue of a pathway to citizenship...you think the parties are exactly the same on the immigration issue?

Neither party wants to fix the immigration issue. Each makes proposals they know can be shot down by the other side without alienating their constituents.

Are they the same? Same but different, is what I would call it.

show our penal system for what it is: continuation of slavery

You aren't going to get an argument out me here. Not sure I have an issue with prisoners being asked to do something more than lift in the yard to cover the cost of their 3 hots and a cot, but I would prefer we had them working on things that would ultimately reduce recidivism. Our penal system is corrupt as all get out - but I don't think there has ever been a "good" one.

Yeah, the current penal system has strayed pretty far from the reforms of Wm. Penn in the 18th century . Maybe more Quakers and fewer evangelicals?

"Penn's ideas continued to influence people even one hundred years later, when Pennsylvania Quakers and other reformers started the Philadelphia Society for Alleviating the Miseries of Public Prisons. Among the first prison reform organizations in the United States, this group developed the concept of penitentiaries, prisons based on the idea that those who commit crimes should be penitent, or feel regret and sorrow for their misdeeds. The Quakers believed that prisoners must be given space to reflect on their actions and to seek forgiveness from God. Penitence was considered the key to reform: criminals could not be rehabilitated, or restored to normal life, unless they felt truly sorry for the crimes they had committed.


Prior to the creation of penitentiaries, those accused of crimes generally spent short periods in jails, confined only while awaiting trial or punishment. Punishments for crimes included the death penalty, fines, slave labor, or corporal (physical) punishments, such as whipping or branding. Although confinement in such jails was relatively brief, conditions were filthy and dangerous. For most, it was a nightmarish experience. All prisoners—men and women, hardened criminals, and first-time offenders—were housed together in common rooms. The straw spread over the floor served as both their bedding and their toilet. Violence, including rape, was common."

https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sci ... m-movement

Seems like we have returned to those times.

Of course, BOP talks a good game, but we know that's a bunch of shite.

"The Federal Bureau of Prisons is undertaking sweeping reforms designed to reduce recidivism and strengthen public safety. By focusing on evidence-based rehabilitation strategies, these reforms touch virtually every aspect of the federal prison system, from an inmate’s initial intake to his or her return to the community. The reforms are targeted to address the core behavioral issues that result in criminality, with the goal of reducing the likelihood that inmates re-offend either while incarcerated or after their release. In doing so, the Bureau is creating safer prisons and safer streets, underscoring the Justice Department’s philosophy that one of the best ways to prevent crime is by reducing recidivism."

https://www.justice.gov/archives/prison-reform

And then there is reality:

"The federal Bureau of Prison's deeply flawed, backlogged system for investigating sexual assault fails to protect female inmates from rape while protecting employees who commit sexual assault, according to a bipartisan report issued today by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI).

The PSI investigation found that the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) has failed to implement a federal law to prevent prison rapes, and that long delays in investigating complaints have led to a backlog of more than 8,000 internal affairs cases, leading to failures to hold employees accountable. The report says that these management failures "allowed serious, repeated sexual abuse in at least four facilities to go undetected."

"BOP's internal affairs practices have failed to hold employees accountable, and multiple admitted sexual abusers were not criminally prosecuted as a result," the report concludes. "Further, for a decade, BOP failed to respond to this abuse or implement agency-wide reforms."

https://reason.com/2022/12/13/senate-in ... ate-rapes/

[Typical Lax Dad]

PS those wages are market clearing.

it is a manipulated market.

Dems see handwriting on wall and realize that "immigration reform" is dead in the water...

Do you remember that differently, Hoo?

Set aside all the rest, E-Verify, border security, etc., etc...on the issue of a pathway to citizenship...you think the parties are exactly the same on the immigration issue?

Neither party wants to fix the immigration issue. Each makes proposals they know can be shot down by the other side without alienating their constituents.

Are they the same? Same but different, is what I would call it.

show our penal system for what it is: continuation of slavery

You aren't going to get an argument out me here. Not sure I have an issue with prisoners being asked to do something more than lift in the yard to cover the cost of their 3 hots and a cot, but I would prefer we had them working on things that would ultimately reduce recidivism. Our penal system is corrupt as all get out - but I don't think there has ever been a "good" one.

Yeah, the current penal system has strayed pretty far from the reforms of Wm. Penn in the 18th century . Maybe more Quakers and fewer evangelicals?

"Penn's ideas continued to influence people even one hundred years later, when Pennsylvania Quakers and other reformers started the Philadelphia Society for Alleviating the Miseries of Public Prisons. Among the first prison reform organizations in the United States, this group developed the concept of penitentiaries, prisons based on the idea that those who commit crimes should be penitent, or feel regret and sorrow for their misdeeds. The Quakers believed that prisoners must be given space to reflect on their actions and to seek forgiveness from God. Penitence was considered the key to reform: criminals could not be rehabilitated, or restored to normal life, unless they felt truly sorry for the crimes they had committed.


Prior to the creation of penitentiaries, those accused of crimes generally spent short periods in jails, confined only while awaiting trial or punishment. Punishments for crimes included the death penalty, fines, slave labor, or corporal (physical) punishments, such as whipping or branding. Although confinement in such jails was relatively brief, conditions were filthy and dangerous. For most, it was a nightmarish experience. All prisoners—men and women, hardened criminals, and first-time offenders—were housed together in common rooms. The straw spread over the floor served as both their bedding and their toilet. Violence, including rape, was common."

https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sci ... m-movement

Seems like we have returned to those times.

Of course, BOP talks a good game, but we know that's a bunch of shite.

"The Federal Bureau of Prisons is undertaking sweeping reforms designed to reduce recidivism and strengthen public safety. By focusing on evidence-based rehabilitation strategies, these reforms touch virtually every aspect of the federal prison system, from an inmate’s initial intake to his or her return to the community. The reforms are targeted to address the core behavioral issues that result in criminality, with the goal of reducing the likelihood that inmates re-offend either while incarcerated or after their release. In doing so, the Bureau is creating safer prisons and safer streets, underscoring the Justice Department’s philosophy that one of the best ways to prevent crime is by reducing recidivism."

https://www.justice.gov/archives/prison-reform

And then there is reality:

"The federal Bureau of Prison's deeply flawed, backlogged system for investigating sexual assault fails to protect female inmates from rape while protecting employees who commit sexual assault, according to a bipartisan report issued today by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI).

The PSI investigation found that the Bureau of Prisons (BOP) has failed to implement a federal law to prevent prison rapes, and that long delays in investigating complaints have led to a backlog of more than 8,000 internal affairs cases, leading to failures to hold employees accountable. The report says that these management failures "allowed serious, repeated sexual abuse in at least four facilities to go undetected."

"BOP's internal affairs practices have failed to hold employees accountable, and multiple admitted sexual abusers were not criminally prosecuted as a result," the report concludes. "Further, for a decade, BOP failed to respond to this abuse or implement agency-wide reforms."

https://reason.com/2022/12/13/senate-in ... ate-rapes/

https://www.thenation.com/article/archi ... bor/tnamp/

The breaded chicken patty your child bites into at school may have been made by a worker earning twenty cents an hour, not in a faraway country, but by a member of an invisible American workforce: prisoners. At the Union Correctional Facility, a maximum security prison in Florida, inmates from a nearby lower-security prison manufacture tons of processed beef, chicken and pork for Prison Rehabilitative Industries and Diversified Enterprises (PRIDE), a privately held non-profit corporation that operates the state’s forty-one work programs. In addition to processed food, PRIDE’s website reveals an array of products for sale through contracts with private companies, from eyeglasses to office furniture, to be shipped from a distribution center in Florida to businesses across the US. PRIDE boasts that its work programs are “designed to provide vocational training, to improve prison security, to reduce the cost of state government, and to promote the rehabilitation of the state inmates.”

Although a wide variety of goods have long been produced by state and federal prisoners for the US government—license plates are the classic example, with more recent contracts including everything from guided missile parts to the solar panels powering government buildings—prison labor for the private sector was legally barred for years, to avoid unfair competition with private companies. But this has changed thanks to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), its Prison Industries Act, and a little-known federal program known as PIE (the Prison Industries Enhancement Certification Program). While much has been written about prison labor in the past several years, these forces, which have driven its expansion, remain largely unknown.

ALEC is an organization most Americans know nothing about but Eduado and Isabela that pushed a baby carriage 2,000 miles are the real problem…..they know that well!

[NattyBohChamps04]

Trump's Immigrant Crackdown Left A Critical Shortage Of Workers In U.S. Economy

..

Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.

First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....


"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."

The quote includes "low-paying"...

and?

what it doesn't say is how low, and WHY "Americans" (by which I assume they mean US citizens) don't want to do the work. It isn't the work, it is the pay.

Employers (enabled by the US Gov) are tilting the scale in favor of business owners at the expense of US Citizen workers.

the bottom line is that these employers don't want to pay a market clearing wage to US citizens and therefore use the reduced bargaining power of illegal labor to put downward pressure on wages. Don't pretend like you don't understand that is what is happening.

You said that the article leaves out the fact that it's low paying, when the article said the jobs are low paying.

What do you think drives higher wages? Market pressure, government intervention, unionizing? Something else? What do you think drives lower wages? Market pressure, government intervention, unionizing? Something else?

[PizzaSnake]

Trump's Immigrant Crackdown Left A Critical Shortage Of Workers In U.S. Economy

..

Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.

First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....


"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."

The quote includes "low-paying"...

and?

what it doesn't say is how low, and WHY "Americans" (by which I assume they mean US citizens) don't want to do the work. It isn't the work, it is the pay.

Employers (enabled by the US Gov) are tilting the scale in favor of business owners at the expense of US Citizen workers.

the bottom line is that these employers don't want to pay a market clearing wage to US citizens and therefore use the reduced bargaining power of illegal labor to put downward pressure on wages. Don't pretend like you don't understand that is what is happening.

You said that the article leaves out the fact that it's low paying, when the article said the jobs are low paying.

What do you think drives higher wages? Market pressure, government intervention, unionizing? Something else? What do you think drives lower wages? Market pressure, government intervention, unionizing? Something else?

People with any choice won't perform stoop labor in the blazing sun and high heat/humidity. That shite will kill you fast -- CKD in short order.

Ever do any exhausting manual labor in those conditions for 8-10 hours a day? I did, at age 15 in Washington DC. Never again. Only gotten hotter since then. Agribusinesses in FL and Central Valley CA are no better than the Qataris. Worse, maybe, since it is year-in, year-out. Ever hear the "family farmers" in CA whinge when their supply of "wage-slaves" is threatened. Fcuk 'em and their subsidized water.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Trump's Immigrant Crackdown Left A Critical Shortage Of Workers In U.S. Economy

..

Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.

First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.

Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....


"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."

The quote includes "low-paying"...

and?

what it doesn't say is how low, and WHY "Americans" (by which I assume they mean US citizens) don't want to do the work. It isn't the work, it is the pay.

Employers (enabled by the US Gov) are tilting the scale in favor of business owners at the expense of US Citizen workers.

the bottom line is that these employers don't want to pay a market clearing wage to US citizens and therefore use the reduced bargaining power of illegal labor to put downward pressure on wages. Don't pretend like you don't understand that is what is happening.

You said that the article leaves out the fact that it's low paying, when the article said the jobs are low paying.

What do you think drives higher wages? Market pressure, government intervention, unionizing? Something else? What do you think drives lower wages? Market pressure, government intervention, unionizing? Something else?

https://agamerica.com/blog/the-impact-o ... -shortage/

“As the percentage of immigrants with postgraduate degrees and global literacy rates increase, so do their opportunities for less labor-intensive careers. The agriculture industry is having trouble competing with corporate jobs that offer higher pay and work-at-home options.”

How much more will agricultural jobs have to pay to get someone away from a desk with air conditioning? a friend’s son has been working with his hands for 3 years. We may hire him and train him next year as he is tired of that kind of work…..interested in a career instead of jobs.

[youthathletics]

Suing a state for what what you should be doing in the first place. Make it make sense. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/14/poli ... index.html

[a fan]

Suing a state for what what you should be doing in the first place. Make it make sense. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/14/poli ... index.html

Easy to make it make sense: Trump had four full years to build to their heart's content. And apparently, AZ has money to blow.

Tell me: why the F wasn't AZ putting this up under Trump? Answer: you know EXACTLY why AZ didn't do this during Trump. But sure, pretend you don't know.

[youthathletics]

Suing a state for what what you should be doing in the first place. Make it make sense. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/14/poli ... index.html

Easy to make it make sense: Trump had four full years to build to their heart's content. And apparently, AZ has money to blow.

Tell me: why the F wasn't AZ putting this up under Trump? Answer: you know EXACTLY why AZ didn't do this during Trump. But sure, pretend you don't know.

it’s always trumps fault, we heard that loud and clear the last 6 years, time to move on. Why is the fed suing them? Lemma guess, that trumps fault, too?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Suing a state for what what you should be doing in the first place. Make it make sense. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/14/poli ... index.html

Easy to make it make sense: Trump had four full years to build to their heart's content. And apparently, AZ has money to blow.

Tell me: why the F wasn't AZ putting this up under Trump? Answer: you know EXACTLY why AZ didn't do this during Trump. But sure, pretend you don't know.

it’s always trumps fault, we heard that loud and clear the last 6 years, time to move on. Why is the fed suing them? Lemma guess, that trumps fault, too?

“without official permits or authorization”…..

"Not only has Arizona refused to halt its trespasses and remove the shipping containers from federal lands, but it has indicated that it will continue to trespass on federal lands and install additional shipping containers,"

Remind me not to hire you….

Wait until your neighbor builds a hip hop club on your property line.

[a fan]

Suing a state for what what you should be doing in the first place. Make it make sense. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/14/poli ... index.html

Easy to make it make sense: Trump had four full years to build to their heart's content. And apparently, AZ has money to blow.

Tell me: why the F wasn't AZ putting this up under Trump? Answer: you know EXACTLY why AZ didn't do this during Trump. But sure, pretend you don't know.

it’s always trumps fault, we heard that loud and clear the last 6 years, time to move on. Why is the fed suing them?

Why do you think? In what world is dropping that sh*t on a border helpfu? Blocks drainage, wildlife, and it's a laughable wall.

And since you're telling me you don't understand this stunt, you get that "coincidentally" Governor has a little R by his name, yeah? Been in power since 2015. So.....the reason he didn't build this fake wall of his under Trump is that this has nothing to do with a wall.

It's this: Dems are bad. That's it. Nothing more. Why do you keep falling for this stupid stuff?


You can file this stupidity in the same file as DeSantis shipping people off to Martha's Vineyard.

Here's what your team would have been doing the last two years if they were serious about fixing the problem.

-McConnell would have broken out a committee to come up with a comprehensive bill, and worked on it because there's really nothing else occupying their time.

-They present a finished bill before midterm campaign season and tell the people: "vote for us, and this bill goes to the floor in January of 2023. And if we don't pass it on the first try, we'll tweak it until it passes. It includes everything from charting a path to citizenship, to getting the correct number of
work VISAs for farm workers, to turning on EVerify and adding Felony jail time to business managers who violate the law."

It's been so long since we've actually fixed problems as a country that we don't even know what it looks like anymore.

And in two years, when your team is back in power, I'll be here to take wagers that they won't lift a finger to do what I described above.

And not one of you will take the wager. Because you know doggone well that your R's are lying to you, and have ZERO interest in fixing this.

.....remember when I told you Biden wouldn't do a freaking thing about this either. Do I have a crystal ball? Or have I just caught on that you guys are letting your leaders take you for a ride?

Wanna fix it? Call or email YOUR party and complain, my man...that's it. That's the ONLY way out. You didn't hold Trump accountable.....and now you're paying the price for that. What the heck are you in that party for, if you're gonna hand your vote away in exchange for NOTHING? All that does it tell them: no matter what you do, you have my vote. So what do you think that incentivizes?

It tells them to line their own pockets, accomplish nothing, and enjoy the money and power.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Suing a state for what what you should be doing in the first place. Make it make sense. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/14/poli ... index.html

Easy to make it make sense: Trump had four full years to build to their heart's content. And apparently, AZ has money to blow.

Tell me: why the F wasn't AZ putting this up under Trump? Answer: you know EXACTLY why AZ didn't do this during Trump. But sure, pretend you don't know.

it’s always trumps fault, we heard that loud and clear the last 6 years, time to move on. Why is the fed suing them?

Why do you think? In what world is dropping that sh*t on a border helpfu? Blocks drainage, wildlife, and it's a laughable wall.

And since you're telling me you don't understand this stunt, you get that "coincidentally" Governor has a little R by his name, yeah? Been in power since 2015. So.....the reason he didn't build this fake wall of his under Trump is that this has nothing to do with a wall.

It's this: Dems are bad. That's it. Nothing more. Why do you keep falling for this stupid stuff?


You can file this stupidity in the same file as DeSantis shipping people off to Martha's Vineyard.

Here's what your team would have been doing the last two years if they were serious about fixing the problem.

-McConnell would have broken out a committee to come up with a comprehensive bill, and worked on it because there's really nothing else occupying their time.

-They present a finished bill before midterm campaign season and tell the people: "vote for us, and this bill goes to the floor in January of 2023. And if we don't pass it on the first try, we'll tweak it until it passes. It includes everything from charting a path to citizenship, to getting the correct number of
work VISAs for farm workers, to turning on EVerify and adding Felony jail time to business managers who violate the law."

It's been so long since we've actually fixed problems as a country that we don't even know what it looks like anymore.

And in two years, when your team is back in power, I'll be here to take wagers that they won't lift a finger to do what I described above.

And not one of you will take the wager. Because you know doggone well that your R's are lying to you, and have ZERO interest in fixing this.

.....remember when I told you Biden wouldn't do a freaking thing about this either. Do I have a crystal ball? Or have I just caught on that you guys are letting your leaders take you for a ride?

Wanna fix it? Call or email YOUR party and complain, my man...that's it. That's the ONLY way out. You didn't hold Trump accountable.....and now you're paying the price for that. What the heck are you in that party for, if you're gonna hand your vote away in exchange for NOTHING? All that does it tell them: no matter what you do, you have my vote. So what do you think that incentivizes?

It tells them to line their own pockets, accomplish nothing, and enjoy the money and power.

Once Obama came over into office, Congress figured out not working on anything and being obstructionist is good for re-election. I wasn’t on the board then but my guess is YA got a kick out of Michele Obama is man and has a penis. His kind of intellect.