I've heard that this David DePape character is an illegal immigrant from Canada who entered the US in 2001 or 2002 when traitor Bush was in the White Wash House. If true then it's proof that we need a wall between ourselves and Canada since whites are the biggest terrorist threats in this world.
Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.
First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....
"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."
Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.
First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....
"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."
Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.
First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....
"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."
By the way, our population is a structural impediment to sustained growth without immigration. Not sure why you think people are pro illegal immigration. Cut down on immigration and we will see a lower standard of living in this country and an even wider gap between the haves and hav nots. We need a rational immigration policy.... I just don't know why we don't have one yet.
In 2022, Ronnie Reagan would be for "Open Borders"..... it's laughable.... Libs are for no borders. Wave 'em in.
Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.
First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....
"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."
The quote includes "low-paying"...
and?
what it doesn't say is how low, and WHY "Americans" (by which I assume they mean US citizens) don't want to do the work. It isn't the work, it is the pay.
Employers (enabled by the US Gov) are tilting the scale in favor of business owners at the expense of US Citizen workers.
the bottom line is that these employers don't want to pay a market clearing wage to US citizens and therefore use the reduced bargaining power of illegal labor to put downward pressure on wages. Don't pretend like you don't understand that is what is happening.
Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:23 pm
by HooDat
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:17 pm
Not sure why you think people are pro illegal immigration.
because our politicians prove over and over again that they have no interest in stopping it, if they were not pro illegal immigration they could stop it overnight with E-Verify.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:17 pmCut down on immigration and we will see a lower standard of living in this country and an even wider gap between the haves and hav nots. We need a rational immigration policy.... I just don't know why we don't have one yet.
I guess that depends on who the "we" is in your statement. If by "we" you mean business owners obtaining excess rents from illegal labor, then yeah, sure "we" will see a lower standard of living. If by "we" you mean everyone - not sure how the CEO getting paid less and the laborer getting paid more widens the gap between the have's and the have-nots?? That is logic that only an economist could push forward - someone will have to explain that one to me.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:17 pm
Not sure why you think people are pro illegal immigration.
because our politicians prove over and over again that they have no interest in stopping it, if they were not pro illegal immigration they could stop it overnight with E-Verify.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:17 pmCut down on immigration and we will see a lower standard of living in this country and an even wider gap between the haves and hav nots. We need a rational immigration policy.... I just don't know why we don't have one yet.
I guess that depends on who the "we" is in your statement. If by "we" you mean business owners obtaining excess rents from illegal labor, then yeah, sure "we" will see a lower standard of living. If by "we" you mean everyone - not sure how the CEO getting paid less and the laborer getting paid more widens the gap between the have's and the have-nots?? That is logic that only an economist could push forward - someone will have to explain that one to me.
You believe that’s why we don’t have Americans picking tomatoes and strawberries…… reducing “CEO pay” will lead to more labor participation and lower unemployment and higher wages with more of of “native” population workforce and less foreign born workers?
Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:48 pm
by HooDat
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:36 pm
You believe that’s why we don’t have Americans picking tomatoes and strawberries…… reducing “CEO pay” will lead to more labor participation and lower unemployment and higher wages with more of of “native” population workforce and less foreign born workers?
I believe in market clearing prices. I didn't say that you have to reduce CEO pay. What I said was that CEO's like below market priced labor because they can then pay themselves more.
And for the record - I don't care where they were born, but to the extent that we have US Citizens and legal immigrants seeking work, we should not be letting people come into this country illegally to work.
Do you believe we should be giving free reign to people who's very first action on US soil is to have broken our laws?
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:36 pm
You believe that’s why we don’t have Americans picking tomatoes and strawberries…… reducing “CEO pay” will lead to more labor participation and lower unemployment and higher wages with more of of “native” population workforce and less foreign born workers?
I believe in market clearing prices. I didn't say that you have to reduce CEO pay. What I said was that CEO's like below market priced labor because they can then pay themselves more.
And for the record - I don't care where they were born, but to the extent that we have US Citizens and legal immigrants seeking work, we should not be letting people come into this country illegally to work.
Do you believe we should be giving free reign to people who's very first action on US soil is to have broken our laws?
No. PS those wages are market clearing.
Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:14 pm
by dislaxxic
My recollection of the last time this stuff came up for actual debate in the Congress...it boiled down to the Dems having provisions that put a "path to citizenship" into the legislation and the Cons absolutely refused to countenance anything remotely LIKE that in the law.
Dems see handwriting on wall and realize that "immigration reform" is dead in the water...
Do you remember that differently, Hoo?
Set aside all the rest, E-Verify, border security, etc., etc...on the issue of a pathway to citizenship...you think the parties are exactly the same on the immigration issue?
Let's talk about the unspoken lies involved in the immigration "debate" ... a debate that neither party has any interest in resolving by the way.
First there is the important distinction between legal and illegal immigration.
Second is the BS spouted in the article I quote below (my bold for emphasis). This myth about jobs Americans are unwilling to do, leaves out the important part: unwilling to do at a POVERTY LEVEL PAY-SCALE. The US needs those illegal immigrants so that the Boss-Man can afford a vacation home in Aspen.....
"But immigrants are tremendously valuable in national economies, according to data. They provide a flexible workforce and are often willing to do jobs Americans turn down, such as low-paying, physically demanding work in the hospitality, agriculture, construction and health care industries."
The quote includes "low-paying"...
and?
what it doesn't say is how low, and WHY "Americans" (by which I assume they mean US citizens) don't want to do the work. It isn't the work, it is the pay.
Employers (enabled by the US Gov) are tilting the scale in favor of business owners at the expense of US Citizen workers.
the bottom line is that these employers don't want to pay a market clearing wage to US citizens and therefore use the reduced bargaining power of illegal labor to put downward pressure on wages. Don't pretend like you don't understand that is what is happening.
Don't forget about the slave labor of prisoners. Those "wages", the commissary system and long-distance show our penal system for what it is: continuation of slavery. But I guess the illegal immigrants are also "good" for business -- more mobile, feed and house themselves, and very ductile re wages and working conditions.
Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:50 pm
by HooDat
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:10 pm
PS those wages are market clearing.
it is a manipulated market.
dislaxxic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:14 pm
Dems see handwriting on wall and realize that "immigration reform" is dead in the water...
Do you remember that differently, Hoo?
Set aside all the rest, E-Verify, border security, etc., etc...on the issue of a pathway to citizenship...you think the parties are exactly the same on the immigration issue?
Neither party wants to fix the immigration issue. Each makes proposals they know can be shot down by the other side without alienating their constituents.
Are they the same? Same but different, is what I would call it.
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:15 pm
show our penal system for what it is: continuation of slavery
You aren't going to get an argument out me here. Not sure I have an issue with prisoners being asked to do something more than lift in the yard to cover the cost of their 3 hots and a cot, but I would prefer we had them working on things that would ultimately reduce recidivism. Our penal system is corrupt as all get out - but I don't think there has ever been a "good" one.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:10 pm
PS those wages are market clearing.
it is a manipulated market.
dislaxxic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:14 pm
Dems see handwriting on wall and realize that "immigration reform" is dead in the water...
Do you remember that differently, Hoo?
Set aside all the rest, E-Verify, border security, etc., etc...on the issue of a pathway to citizenship...you think the parties are exactly the same on the immigration issue?
Neither party wants to fix the immigration issue. Each makes proposals they know can be shot down by the other side without alienating their constituents.
Are they the same? Same but different, is what I would call it.
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:15 pm
show our penal system for what it is: continuation of slavery
You aren't going to get an argument out me here. Not sure I have an issue with prisoners being asked to do something more than lift in the yard to cover the cost of their 3 hots and a cot, but I would prefer we had them working on things that would ultimately reduce recidivism. Our penal system is corrupt as all get out - but I don't think there has ever been a "good" one.
I believed thirty years ago that some level of protectionism was good if markets didn’t reciprocate or if foreign government subsidies tilted the playing field. Our economy has been transformed. I want our human capital to flow towards higher paying skills / jobs. Green technology, for instance, is job creation. I worked with several manufacturers and fuel and energy efficiency has led to more jobs that pay more as well. I don’t want an agrarian based labor pool here. I want more value added. I have been pro labor pretty much all my life. I know all to well what shipping out jobs to maximize shareholder value has led to. Given where we are today, reducing immigration won’t lead to economic growth that we need to maintain, let alone increase the standard of living here. But maybe China will send jobs over here one day….you think that would be a good thing? China and Asia Pacific rim sending work to the USA?
Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:19 pm
by HooDat
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:07 pm
I believed thirty years ago that some level of protectionism was good if markets didn’t reciprocate or if foreign government subsidies tilted the playing field. Our economy has been transformed. I want our human capital to flow towards higher paying skills / jobs. Green technology, for instance, is job creation. I worked with several manufacturers and fuel and energy efficiency has led to more jobs that pay more as well. I don’t want an agrarian based labor pool here. I want more value added. I have been pro labor pretty much all my life. I know all to well what shipping out jobs to maximize shareholder value has led to. Given where we are today, reducing immigration won’t lead to economic growth that we need to maintain, let alone increase the standard of living here. But maybe China will send jobs over here one day….you think that would be a good thing? China and Asia Pacific rim sending work to the USA?
I am sorry but this is nonsense. You basically just said "learn to code".
