LaxPower Back-Up Stick

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:38 am

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:30 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:21 am natural immunity...........antibodies against covid.......only the VAXx protects against the variants. Umm.....really. Why are vaxxed people getting covid than.

so simple.....conflate, confiscate.

You are not making sense. Natural immunity is not permanent, apparently. Nor are vaccines perfect prevention against getting the disease, and additional boosters might be necessary to gain a longer term immunity. (Why do you have to get a Tetanus booster every 10 years? Because the immunity wanes...) But vaccines make getting COVID less likely, even with a variant. Maybe not as much protection as the original version.

And protection against hospitalization and death is MUCH better than not being vaccinated.

Discuss this aspect and what you base it on? (in bold)
We are talking covid, with ONLY the pfeizer getting recent emergency protection from emergency lawsuit protection....which health care facilities ....ummm....have, already.

not making sense.

If you want to earnest and honest, you would support a antibody card, in lui of vaccine. Why do you care how someone got covid antibodies, as long as they have them. Support a antibody card, if you gonna force vaccine (unprove, btw, tetnus has been around for decades, not something approved by your trump administration, btw )

https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/op ... on-465422/

Led by University of Rochester Medical Center researcher Benjamin Miller, the $1.7 million project is funded by the US Department of Defense Manufacturing Technology Program using CARES Act funds through a contract with AIM Photonics. The collaboration also involves Ortho Clinical Diagnostics, which develops and manufactures innovative laboratory testing and blood-typing solutions at its Global Center for R&D Excellence in Rochester; Syntec Optics, a maker of polymer optics in Rochester; researchers at the NY CREATES 300mm microelectronics research facility in Albany, New York, and at the University of California at Santa Barbara; and the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, DC.


This portion of the article , pretty much, sums covid up. money money money. follow it.

Try:

https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/ ... on-vaccine

or:

https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/03/24/ho ... d-19-15424

First one describes a large variability in immune response to acquisition from natural immunity...

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:38 am

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:30 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:21 am natural immunity...........antibodies against covid.......only the VAXx protects against the variants. Umm.....really. Why are vaxxed people getting covid than.

so simple.....conflate, confiscate.

You are not making sense. Natural immunity is not permanent, apparently. Nor are vaccines perfect prevention against getting the disease, and additional boosters might be necessary to gain a longer term immunity. (Why do you have to get a Tetanus booster every 10 years? Because the immunity wanes...) But vaccines make getting COVID less likely, even with a variant. Maybe not as much protection as the original version.

And protection against hospitalization and death is MUCH better than not being vaccinated.

Discuss this aspect and what you base it on? (in bold)
We are talking covid, with ONLY the pfeizer getting recent emergency protection from emergency lawsuit protection....which health care facilities ....ummm....have, already.

not making sense.

If you want to earnest and honest, you would support a antibody card, in lui of vaccine. Why do you care how someone got covid antibodies, as long as they have them. Support a antibody card, if you gonna force vaccine (unprove, btw, tetnus has been around for decades, not something approved by your trump administration, btw )

https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/op ... on-465422/

Led by University of Rochester Medical Center researcher Benjamin Miller, the $1.7 million project is funded by the US Department of Defense Manufacturing Technology Program using CARES Act funds through a contract with AIM Photonics. The collaboration also involves Ortho Clinical Diagnostics, which develops and manufactures innovative laboratory testing and blood-typing solutions at its Global Center for R&D Excellence in Rochester; Syntec Optics, a maker of polymer optics in Rochester; researchers at the NY CREATES 300mm microelectronics research facility in Albany, New York, and at the University of California at Santa Barbara; and the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, DC.


This portion of the article , pretty much, sums covid up. money money money. follow it.

Interesting! Thanks for posting.

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:45 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:38 am

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:30 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:21 am natural immunity...........antibodies against covid.......only the VAXx protects against the variants. Umm.....really. Why are vaxxed people getting covid than.

so simple.....conflate, confiscate.

You are not making sense. Natural immunity is not permanent, apparently. Nor are vaccines perfect prevention against getting the disease, and additional boosters might be necessary to gain a longer term immunity. (Why do you have to get a Tetanus booster every 10 years? Because the immunity wanes...) But vaccines make getting COVID less likely, even with a variant. Maybe not as much protection as the original version.

And protection against hospitalization and death is MUCH better than not being vaccinated.

Discuss this aspect and what you base it on? (in bold)
We are talking covid, with ONLY the pfeizer getting recent emergency protection from emergency lawsuit protection....which health care facilities ....ummm....have, already.

not making sense.

If you want to earnest and honest, you would support a antibody card, in lui of vaccine. Why do you care how someone got covid antibodies, as long as they have them. Support a antibody card, if you gonna force vaccine (unprove, btw, tetnus has been around for decades, not something approved by your trump administration, btw )

https://www.rochester.edu/newscenter/op ... on-465422/

Led by University of Rochester Medical Center researcher Benjamin Miller, the $1.7 million project is funded by the US Department of Defense Manufacturing Technology Program using CARES Act funds through a contract with AIM Photonics. The collaboration also involves Ortho Clinical Diagnostics, which develops and manufactures innovative laboratory testing and blood-typing solutions at its Global Center for R&D Excellence in Rochester; Syntec Optics, a maker of polymer optics in Rochester; researchers at the NY CREATES 300mm microelectronics research facility in Albany, New York, and at the University of California at Santa Barbara; and the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington, DC.


This portion of the article , pretty much, sums covid up. money money money. follow it.

Try:

https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/ ... on-vaccine

or:

https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/03/24/ho ... d-19-15424

First one describes a large variability in immune response to acquisition from natural immunity...

In response to your first link:

I have a question. How does a vaccinated person "reduce the chance of spreading" versus someone who actually got covid and survived?

Beyond that, your links provide zero FACT, nor evidence, that people that got covid ....but don't want to get the vaccine.....as they being threats to society.

In others words, nothing that you base your opinion makes the claim, that natural immunity is any better, or worse, than getting the vaccines. Using vague terms, like "unknown", " longterm " , etc.......yeah....no kidding.

One thing is , a fact. I survived covid. And your science is telling us, what, that, maybe, this new vaccine, may have longer lasting effects. based on what? geez.

How many people in the USA have gotten covid, survived, and, because they are educated, are skeptical about getting the vaxx. When, science , for decades, has claimed natural immunity (hence the "host" being so valuable ).

Tell me when the climate change vaccine comes out.......make that mandatory too.

Ride a bike.........

You seem to conclude that natural immunity is either better or at least good enough. Not supported by the data in the case of COVID-19. Period.

Since transmission is reduced significantly when immunized, immunization is preferable.

Since severe disease/death is drastically reduced when immunized, immunization is far preferable, both for the outcome and lowering the strain on our health care system. And getting immunized will shorten the time that society gets to enough herd immunity to squash disease outbreaks of covid.

The risk of getting immunized is far less than the risk of getting covid. So why the hesitation in getting the shot? Not exactly logical. Mostly an act of ill informed defiance.

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:25 pm You seem to conclude that natural immunity is either better or at least good enough. Not supported by the data in the case of COVID-19. Period.

From your linked article.....

The more protective our immunity is after being infected by COVID-19, the less likely we will be reinfected. A recent study from Denmark shows that our immune system does a pretty good job, but the vaccination might be a wee-bit better

Splitting hairs?

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:35 pm

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:25 pm You seem to conclude that natural immunity is either better or at least good enough. Not supported by the data in the case of COVID-19. Period.

From your linked article.....

The more protective our immunity is after being infected by COVID-19, the less likely we will be reinfected. A recent study from Denmark shows that our immune system does a pretty good job, but the vaccination might be a wee-bit better

Splitting hairs?

This one makes clear that there's "huge variability" in immune protection, ie. mild first infection, very little immunity. Almost die but survive, may be a lot better protection. More antibodies. But vaccine definitely has more impact. And multiple shots of vaccine, even better...so get vaccinated even if originally 'infected' so as to maximize antibodies. All will have reduced immunity with time (apparently) so will likely need boosters.

And none of this included variants like Delta and others...

https://www.immunology.org/coronavirus/ ... on-vaccine

Wasn't the 'wee bit better' not from the actual article, just an editorial headline?

What the author actually wrote was: "Overall, natural immunity is protective. Perhaps not as protective as vaccination. More importantly, vaccination comes with a far lower risk of morbidity (hospitalization) or death."

What’s the downside of the vaxx? Evil liberal government conspiracy? Side affects? I’m sure they exist but I haven’t heard much about them or the prevalence.

My sons third grade teacher and her family have Covid now, just got the email. She’s staying out the rest of the week.

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:49 am What about the millions of USA citizens that actually GOT covid ? In what scientific world would anti bodies NOT trump an UN proven, vaxx ?

Q conspicay? friggin lost your mind.

Says guy who spends all his time around rich people on the East Coast.

Come on out to farm country in Colorado. You don't have to say word. Just listen.

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:49 am Oh, btw, there is literally NOTHING the medical communtiy can do for someone that is short of breath..........nothing. Ventalator, help, or hurt. what does the SCIENCE say ?

Science says: the non-vaccinated are showing up in Hospitals when they feel their life is in danger. Scoreboard.

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:49 am Keep up with the US vs them hate...........and provide ONE person that believes the Q thing , a trumper, that refuses to get the shot. That you know.

My entire farming infrastructure, buddy. Everyone from the farmers/orchard owners, to the truck drivers, to the wholesalers.

They believe the whole thing is a conspiracy in some shape or form.

Your turn to answer some questions: 1. what was the US Vaccination rate BEFORE 2020?

When you answer that, you'll understand why I'm so angry.

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:25 am
which procaution?
you wash your hands, before or after, touching your junk when p peeing ?
(hint, if you don't, you don't take precautions )
just my humble opinion
another science denier.
amazing that educated folks just ignore science. First year medical school stuff.
Natural immunity.
yikes.

just use your head:


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 9/2709975/

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:50 pm What’s the downside of the vaxx? Evil liberal government conspiracy? Side affects? I’m sure they exist but I haven’t heard much about them or the prevalence.

My sons third grade teacher and her family have Covid now, just got the email. She’s staying out the rest of the week.

Good point, there. Funny how the right wing delusionals cry "liberal government" when it was their own Republican tRump who came up with the vaccine and who initially issued mask mandates.

My point was more about risk reward analysis. But these folks aren’t smart enough to do that evaluation.

Brooklyn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:34 pm

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:25 am
which procaution?
you wash your hands, before or after, touching your junk when p peeing ?
(hint, if you don't, you don't take precautions )
just my humble opinion
another science denier.
amazing that educated folks just ignore science. First year medical school stuff.
Natural immunity.
yikes.

just use your head:


https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ ... 9/2709975/

You are preaching to a guy that had COVID-19 and is/was anti HPV vaccine. Taking the natural immunity route. You know anyone that caught the flu twice?

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:35 pm

RedFromMI wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:25 pm You seem to conclude that natural immunity is either better or at least good enough. Not supported by the data in the case of COVID-19. Period.

From your linked article.....

The more protective our immunity is after being infected by COVID-19, the less likely we will be reinfected. A recent study from Denmark shows that our immune system does a pretty good job, but the vaccination might be a wee-bit better

Splitting hairs?

denmark was pre-delta and didn't test for disease severity. big age disparity.

though they also concluded that thru 6 months the protection vs infection didn't drop off, whereas leading country studies for vaxx may be supporting that happening there.

probably one of the best if flawed studies that's been undertaken? and maybe there are others that give other/different info, but we won't likely get a fraction as much put out vs vaccines. just reality. i do believe some eventual conclusions, when they come, will influence policy. might be a while.

Folks who understand data analysis and econometrics understand that all studies have flaws. There’s an R squared (Rho) to any model. The idea that any study will not have a flaw (error) is insane or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Or we can do no analysis and use our guts...

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:12 pm Folks who understand data analysis and econometrics understand that all studies have flaws. There’s an R squared (Rho) to any model. The idea that any study will not have a flaw (error) is insane or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Or we can do no analysis and use our guts...

agree. a big one imao as far as gold standards go (and this might be it on one aspect for now) is how they take data, even inputs. delta dates the study at this point as well.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:12 pm Folks who understand data analysis and econometrics understand that all studies have flaws. There’s an R squared (Rho) to any model. The idea that any study will not have a flaw (error) is insane or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Or we can do no analysis and use our guts...

agree. a big one imao as far as gold standards go (and this might be it on one aspect for now) is how they take data, even inputs. delta dates the study at this point as well.

So what is the answer? Stop all studies and research? Do nothing until it’s all over one way or another, just ride it out and then do the analysis and research? New variables are presented in analysis all the time which doesn’t invalidate prior work. It’s iterative but each step in the process provides tremendous value.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:01 pm
You are preaching to a guy that had COVID-19 and is/was anti HPV vaccine. Taking the natural immunity route. You know anyone that caught the flu twice?

correction: "preaching" to everyone

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:31 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:12 pm Folks who understand data analysis and econometrics understand that all studies have flaws. There’s an R squared (Rho) to any model. The idea that any study will not have a flaw (error) is insane or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Or we can do no analysis and use our guts...

agree. a big one imao as far as gold standards go (and this might be it on one aspect for now) is how they take data, even inputs. delta dates the study at this point as well.

So what is the answer? Stop all studies and research? Do nothing until it’s all over one way or another, just ride it out and then do the analysis and research? New variables are presented in analysis all the time which doesn’t invalidate prior work. It’s iterative but each step in the process provides tremendous value.

all i said about macro was there was going to be a fraction of the research vs vaxxes. but eventually it could influence policy.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:46 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:31 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:12 pm Folks who understand data analysis and econometrics understand that all studies have flaws. There’s an R squared (Rho) to any model. The idea that any study will not have a flaw (error) is insane or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Or we can do no analysis and use our guts...

agree. a big one imao as far as gold standards go (and this might be it on one aspect for now) is how they take data, even inputs. delta dates the study at this point as well.

So what is the answer? Stop all studies and research? Do nothing until it’s all over one way or another, just ride it out and then do the analysis and research? New variables are presented in analysis all the time which doesn’t invalidate prior work. It’s iterative but each step in the process provides tremendous value.

all i said about macro was there was going to be a fraction of the research vs vaxxes. but eventually it could influence policy.

So then what?

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:52 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:46 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:31 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:15 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:12 pm Folks who understand data analysis and econometrics understand that all studies have flaws. There’s an R squared (Rho) to any model. The idea that any study will not have a flaw (error) is insane or doesn’t understand how this stuff works. Or we can do no analysis and use our guts...

agree. a big one imao as far as gold standards go (and this might be it on one aspect for now) is how they take data, even inputs. delta dates the study at this point as well.

So what is the answer? Stop all studies and research? Do nothing until it’s all over one way or another, just ride it out and then do the analysis and research? New variables are presented in analysis all the time which doesn’t invalidate prior work. It’s iterative but each step in the process provides tremendous value.

all i said about macro was there was going to be a fraction of the research vs vaxxes. but eventually it could influence policy.

So then what?

so then the folks that want to get a bead on the real effectiveness of re-infection immunity will have to wait. if there isn't a groundswell of data coming.