JUST the Stolen Documents/Mar-A-Lago/"Judge" Cannon Trial

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tech37
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by tech37 »

a fan wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 am Let us not forget that when Trump took office, we had a nuclear agreement with Iran, negotiated by the Obama administration along with our closest allies. Countries from all over the world came together to negotiate that agreement that put a lid on Iran’s nuclear program.

The wise course would have been to stick with that nuclear agreement, enforce its provisions, and use that diplomatic channel with Iran to address a wide range of other concerns, including their support of terrorism.
-Bernie Sanders.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what it looks like when you have a leader who has an IQ above room temperature. Put the Iran nuclear deal in your pocket. Both sides move forward with a little more trust. THEN you negotiate for the terrorism stuff. So obvious that a guy like me came up with this same solution when Trump reneged. And no, this isn't snobbery. This is saying: this path was so obvious, that a dumb*ss with zero foreign policy experience came up with the solution all by himself. And here is Bernie giving the same solution a year later.
Your hindsight certainly is perfect a fan! :lol:

Oh BTW, so is Bernie's.
Trinity
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Trinity »

Trump told his Mar-a-Lago buddies to expect ‘big’ Iran action days before the Soleimani hit.
In other words, swells at Trump's club knew more about the strike before members of Congress.

thedailybeast.com/trump-told-mar… via @thedailybeast

I wonder if anyone traded on that intel.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
tech37
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by tech37 »

Trinity wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:54 am Trump told his Mar-a-Lago buddies to expect ‘big’ Iran action days before the Soleimani hit.
In other words, swells at Trump's club knew more about the strike before members of Congress.

thedailybeast.com/trump-told-mar… via @thedailybeast

I wonder if anyone traded on that intel.
:lol: The "swells' don't leak
Trinity
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Trinity »

Don’t need to. The enemy is inside the tent. Chinese spies have their own wing at Swampalago.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
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Kismet
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Kismet »

Trinity wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:54 am Trump told his Mar-a-Lago buddies to expect ‘big’ Iran action days before the Soleimani hit.
In other words, swells at Trump's club knew more about the strike before members of Congress.

thedailybeast.com/trump-told-mar… via @thedailybeast

I wonder if anyone traded on that intel.
Of course, take that to the VT Russian State Bank. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Trinity
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Trinity »

What do we do if Iran attacks a Trump property overseas for revenge? Say, a Trump Tower in Istanbul? Or Kazakhstan?
Last edited by Trinity on Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
“I don’t take responsibility at all.” —Donald J Trump
Bart
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Bart »

Brooklyn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:20 am
Prepare to have your children die in an overseas war. That's what you get when you vote Republican.
Didn't President Obama increase troop Deployment in Afghanistan from 30,000 to its peak of 100,000? Started to draw down and actually sent forces back? He did start the draw down shortly before 2012 however.

Did he start it? Nope. You could say he was just cleaning up the mess from a Republican but President Obama could have just said screw it.......I'm done with it and bring all our kids home immediately. And yes, of course, this is an over simplistic view of the situation but so is implying that only Republicans send out children to die in an overseas war.

I just wish both sides would really, really, really think about it before they do it. I'm not a war policy type guy but it seems to me even when we use unmanned methods our troupes ultimately end up in the fray so it seems we just kick the can down the road before our kids end up overseas.
CU88
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by CU88 »

Bart wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:45 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:20 am
Prepare to have your children die in an overseas war. That's what you get when you vote Republican.
I just wish both sides would really, really, really think about it before they do it. I'm not a war policy type guy but it seems to me even when we use unmanned methods our troupes ultimately end up in the fray so it seems we just kick the can down the road before our kids end up overseas.
Some thoughtful comments from Rep Slotkin, who mentions that "both sides" have considered this action before, but not taken it. r hero o d doesn't care about the ramifications, other than the immediate cheers it gets from his worshipers, as we saw last night.

"Rep. Elissa Slotkin
@RepSlotkin

"What always kept both Democratic and Republican presidents from targeting Soleimani himself was the simple question:
Was the strike worth the likely retaliation, and the potential to pull us into protracted conflict?
The two administrations I worked for both determined that the ultimate ends didn’t justify the means. The Trump Administration has made a different calculation. The Iranian government has vowed to retaliate and avenge Soleimani’s death, and could do so in any number of ways:
Against our diplomats and service members or high-ranking military officers, against our allies and partners in the region, or through targeted attacks in the Western world."

In my mind, yes a "bad guy" was killed, but now how many American's are going to suffer because of this direct action? And I know how the r's are going to respond, "...but o d just prevented a terrible incident..." And they will attack anyone who says this was an ill advised action; as we already see on this board above.

DEPLORABLE.
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
seacoaster
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by seacoaster »

Pretty interesting twitter thread on the decision to drone-strike the Iranian:

https://twitter.com/rcallimachi

Start at the beginning and drift upwards.

Or this:

"1. I’ve had a chance to check in with sources, including two US officials who had intelligence briefings after the strike on Suleimani. Here is what I’ve learned. According to them, the evidence suggesting there was to be an imminent attack on American targets is “razor thin”.

2. In fact the evidence pointing to that came as three discrete facts: a) A pattern of travel showing Suleimani was in Syria, Lebanon & Iraq to meet with Shia proxies known to have an offensive position to the US. (As one source said that’s just “business as usual” for Suleimani)

3. More intriguing was b) information indicating Suleimani sought the Supreme Leader’s approval for an operation. He was told to come to Tehran for consultation and further guidance, suggesting the operation was a big deal - but again this could be anything.

4. And finally, a) and b) were read in the context of c) Iran’s increasingly bellicose position towards American interests in Iraq, including the attack that killed a U.S. contractor and the recent protest outside the American embassy.

5. But as one source put it a) + b) + c) is hardly evidence of an imminent attack on American interests that could kill hundreds, as the White House has since claimed. The official describes the reading of the intelligence as an illogical leap.

6. One official described the planning for the strike as chaotic. The official says that following the attack on an Iraqi base which killed an American contractor circa Dec. 27, Trump was presented a menu of options for how to retaliate. Killing Suleimani was the “far out option”

7. Trump chose a more moderate option which involved the Dec. 29 strikes on the positions of an Iranian-backed militia. Then came the protest at the gates of the US embassy in Baghdad:

8. It was after the embassy protests that the president, according to one US official, chose the Suleimani option, but the problem at that point in time is that American intelligence did not know his precise whereabouts. They scrambled to locate him, says the official.

9. According to the official, the strike on Suleimani was pulled together so quickly that initially the US was not sure PMF leader Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis was in the convoy. He was also killed and is also viewed as an Iranian proxy

10. Since the strike, Iran has convened its national security chiefs. Chatter intercepted by American intelligence indicates they’re considering a range of options. Cyberattacks, attacks on oil facilities and American personnel and diplomatic outposts have all been cited so far.

....

17. Before I go back to the pool let me just say the obvious: No one’s trying to downplay Suleimani’s crimes. The question is why now? His whereabouts have been known before. His resume of killing-by-proxy is not a secret. Hard to decouple his killing from the impeachment saga."

There's more. A lot of speculation, sure, but still an interesting view of events and events to potentially come and counter.
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Kismet
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Kismet »

Rukmini Callimachi is Peabody and Pulitzer-winning correspondent for NYT covering Middle East, ISIS and al-Qaeda. Formerly with the AP as Middle East Bureau Chief. She is very plugged in on the ground and there no apparent agenda other than providing facts as she sees them on the ground. Good idea to follow her on Twitter and she provides lots of local color/information with context. She is a Romanian by birth now an American citizen. Dartmouth grad.

Her material is always insightful and interesting and a lot more of it on Twitter than in the paper or even the website.

Great metaphor also on Twitter today from John Sipher, former CIA Station Chief (and Hobart grad)

"John Sipher
@john_sipher
I wish people actually understood Benghazi. It’s become a meme. Almost everyone who references it has no clue what they are talking about. All these situations are different. Comparing Baghdad and Benghazi facilities is comparing the Maginot line to a forest cabin."
Last edited by Kismet on Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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youthathletics
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by youthathletics »

Iran general steps out of Soleimani’s shadow to lead proxies

His two comments in red seem to be like a guy trying to prop up their military position/strength and yet knows deep down their military is in a position of lesser stature.

In January 2015, Ghaani indirectly said that Iran sends missiles and weapons to Palestinians to fight Israel.

The U.S. and Israel are too small to consider themselves in line with Iran’s military power,” Ghaani said at the time. “This power has now appeared alongside the oppressed people of Palestine and Gaza in the form of missiles and weapons.”

Now, Ghaani is firmly in control of the Quds Force. While Iran’s leaders say they have a plan to avenge Soleimani’s death, no plan has been announced as the country prepares for funerals for the general starting Sunday.

Whatever that plan is, Ghaani likely will be involved.

If there were no Islamic Republic, the U.S. would have burned the whole region,” Ghaani once said.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:33 am Iran general steps out of Soleimani’s shadow to lead proxies

His two comments in red seem to be like a guy trying to prop up their military position/strength and yet knows deep down their military is in a position of lesser stature.

In January 2015, Ghaani indirectly said that Iran sends missiles and weapons to Palestinians to fight Israel.

The U.S. and Israel are too small to consider themselves in line with Iran’s military power,” Ghaani said at the time. “This power has now appeared alongside the oppressed people of Palestine and Gaza in the form of missiles and weapons.”

Now, Ghaani is firmly in control of the Quds Force. While Iran’s leaders say they have a plan to avenge Soleimani’s death, no plan has been announced as the country prepares for funerals for the general starting Sunday.

Whatever that plan is, Ghaani likely will be involved.

If there were no Islamic Republic, the U.S. would have burned the whole region,” Ghaani once said.
You mean Iran’s military isn’t as powerful as ours! That’s shocking news!!
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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Brooklyn
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Brooklyn »

Bart wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:45 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:20 am
Prepare to have your children die in an overseas war. That's what you get when you vote Republican.
Didn't President Obama increase troop Deployment in Afghanistan from 30,000 to its peak of 100,000? Started to draw down and actually sent forces back? He did start the draw down shortly before 2012 however.

Did he start it? Nope. You could say he was just cleaning up the mess from a Republican but President Obama could have just said screw it.......I'm done with it and bring all our kids home immediately. And yes, of course, this is an over simplistic view of the situation but so is implying that only Republicans send out children to die in an overseas war.

I just wish both sides would really, really, really think about it before they do it. I'm not a war policy type guy but it seems to me even when we use unmanned methods our troupes ultimately end up in the fray so it seems we just kick the can down the road before our kids end up overseas.



Just a reminder that it was your Republicans who referred to anti war people as "surrender monkeys" and who insisted on perpetuating their profitable war. Their calls for war on Iran have gone unabated for decades and today they may well get it. Soon you'll be paying for their war with your blood and tax dollars while they rejoice as they count their war profits.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

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Brooklyn
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Brooklyn »

Trinity wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:44 am What do we do if Iran attacks a Trump property overseas for revenge? Say, a Trump Tower in Istanbul? Or Kazakhstan?


Of course, if the USA was smart enough to get the hell out of the region we wouldn't have to be worrying about anything like that. ;)
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.

Charles Francis "Socker" Coe, Esq
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youthathletics
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:45 am
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:33 am Iran general steps out of Soleimani’s shadow to lead proxies

His two comments in red seem to be like a guy trying to prop up their military position/strength and yet knows deep down their military is in a position of lesser stature.

In January 2015, Ghaani indirectly said that Iran sends missiles and weapons to Palestinians to fight Israel.

The U.S. and Israel are too small to consider themselves in line with Iran’s military power,” Ghaani said at the time. “This power has now appeared alongside the oppressed people of Palestine and Gaza in the form of missiles and weapons.”

Now, Ghaani is firmly in control of the Quds Force. While Iran’s leaders say they have a plan to avenge Soleimani’s death, no plan has been announced as the country prepares for funerals for the general starting Sunday.

Whatever that plan is, Ghaani likely will be involved.

If there were no Islamic Republic, the U.S. would have burned the whole region,” Ghaani once said.
You mean Iran’s military isn’t as powerful as ours! That’s shocking news!!
That is my point....quite surprising/revealing comments from the new general.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:22 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:45 am
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:33 am Iran general steps out of Soleimani’s shadow to lead proxies

His two comments in red seem to be like a guy trying to prop up their military position/strength and yet knows deep down their military is in a position of lesser stature.

In January 2015, Ghaani indirectly said that Iran sends missiles and weapons to Palestinians to fight Israel.

The U.S. and Israel are too small to consider themselves in line with Iran’s military power,” Ghaani said at the time. “This power has now appeared alongside the oppressed people of Palestine and Gaza in the form of missiles and weapons.”

Now, Ghaani is firmly in control of the Quds Force. While Iran’s leaders say they have a plan to avenge Soleimani’s death, no plan has been announced as the country prepares for funerals for the general starting Sunday.

Whatever that plan is, Ghaani likely will be involved.

If there were no Islamic Republic, the U.S. would have burned the whole region,” Ghaani once said.
You mean Iran’s military isn’t as powerful as ours! That’s shocking news!!
That is my point....quite surprising/revealing comments from the new general.
I am shocked that he is the first Iranian official to make those kinds of comments since the Shah fell! It’s incredibly telling.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
Bart
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Bart »

Brooklyn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:49 am
Bart wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:45 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:20 am
Prepare to have your children die in an overseas war. That's what you get when you vote Republican.
Didn't President Obama increase troop Deployment in Afghanistan from 30,000 to its peak of 100,000? Started to draw down and actually sent forces back? He did start the draw down shortly before 2012 however.

Did he start it? Nope. You could say he was just cleaning up the mess from a Republican but President Obama could have just said screw it.......I'm done with it and bring all our kids home immediately. And yes, of course, this is an over simplistic view of the situation but so is implying that only Republicans send out children to die in an overseas war.

I just wish both sides would really, really, really think about it before they do it. I'm not a war policy type guy but it seems to me even when we use unmanned methods our troupes ultimately end up in the fray so it seems we just kick the can down the road before our kids end up overseas.



Just a reminder that it was your Republicans who referred to anti war people as "surrender monkeys" and who insisted on perpetuating their profitable war. Their calls for war on Iran have gone unabated for decades and today they may well get it. Soon you'll be paying for their war with your blood and tax dollars while they rejoice as they count their war profits.
My republicans? Sweet, with a wave of MY hand we can stop deficit spending, which no one seems willing to do. All I did was point out that the last person to send large numbers of our children to die in a war was a Democrat. Like you, I fear we may be heading back in that direction and I think it sucks.

Do you really think the average registered Republican wants to see more kids die in war? Sorry, I do not.
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youthathletics
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:29 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:22 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:45 am
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:33 am Iran general steps out of Soleimani’s shadow to lead proxies

His two comments in red seem to be like a guy trying to prop up their military position/strength and yet knows deep down their military is in a position of lesser stature.

In January 2015, Ghaani indirectly said that Iran sends missiles and weapons to Palestinians to fight Israel.

The U.S. and Israel are too small to consider themselves in line with Iran’s military power,” Ghaani said at the time. “This power has now appeared alongside the oppressed people of Palestine and Gaza in the form of missiles and weapons.”

Now, Ghaani is firmly in control of the Quds Force. While Iran’s leaders say they have a plan to avenge Soleimani’s death, no plan has been announced as the country prepares for funerals for the general starting Sunday.

Whatever that plan is, Ghaani likely will be involved.

If there were no Islamic Republic, the U.S. would have burned the whole region,” Ghaani once said.
You mean Iran’s military isn’t as powerful as ours! That’s shocking news!!
That is my point....quite surprising/revealing comments from the new general.
I am shocked that he is the first Iranian official to make those kinds of comments since the Shah fell! It’s incredibly telling.
Care to cite where the Shah openly communicated the equivalent?
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:45 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:29 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:22 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:45 am
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:33 am Iran general steps out of Soleimani’s shadow to lead proxies

His two comments in red seem to be like a guy trying to prop up their military position/strength and yet knows deep down their military is in a position of lesser stature.

In January 2015, Ghaani indirectly said that Iran sends missiles and weapons to Palestinians to fight Israel.

The U.S. and Israel are too small to consider themselves in line with Iran’s military power,” Ghaani said at the time. “This power has now appeared alongside the oppressed people of Palestine and Gaza in the form of missiles and weapons.”

Now, Ghaani is firmly in control of the Quds Force. While Iran’s leaders say they have a plan to avenge Soleimani’s death, no plan has been announced as the country prepares for funerals for the general starting Sunday.

Whatever that plan is, Ghaani likely will be involved.

If there were no Islamic Republic, the U.S. would have burned the whole region,” Ghaani once said.
You mean Iran’s military isn’t as powerful as ours! That’s shocking news!!
That is my point....quite surprising/revealing comments from the new general.
I am shocked that he is the first Iranian official to make those kinds of comments since the Shah fell! It’s incredibly telling.
Care to cite where the Shah openly communicated the equivalent?
I believe I said, “since the Shah fell”.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
a fan
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Re: The Politics of National Security

Post by a fan »

tech37 wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:48 am
a fan wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:02 am Let us not forget that when Trump took office, we had a nuclear agreement with Iran, negotiated by the Obama administration along with our closest allies. Countries from all over the world came together to negotiate that agreement that put a lid on Iran’s nuclear program.

The wise course would have been to stick with that nuclear agreement, enforce its provisions, and use that diplomatic channel with Iran to address a wide range of other concerns, including their support of terrorism.
-Bernie Sanders.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what it looks like when you have a leader who has an IQ above room temperature. Put the Iran nuclear deal in your pocket. Both sides move forward with a little more trust. THEN you negotiate for the terrorism stuff. So obvious that a guy like me came up with this same solution when Trump reneged. And no, this isn't snobbery. This is saying: this path was so obvious, that a dumb*ss with zero foreign policy experience came up with the solution all by himself. And here is Bernie giving the same solution a year later.
Your hindsight certainly is perfect a fan! :lol:

Oh BTW, so is Bernie's.
Still struggling with what the word hindsight means.
a fan wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:20 pm
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:20 pm JCPOA was a temporary attempt to stop Iran from getting the bomb
You and old salt say this as if we negotiated for Iran to not eat fish on Tuesdays. You wave it away as if it's some trifle. A pointless concession. "It stopped Iran from getting a nuke...no big deal." As if we don't care one way or another if they have one.


You both need to stop doing that, because it makes you both sound either bitterly partisan, or epically stupid. And we all know that neither of you are anywhere close to stupid.

Trump killed the deal because Obama signed it. You know it. I know it. The world knows it. Petty, grammar school diplomacy, enacted by a child. Stop defending him.

As I stated before, all Trump had to do was keep the deal in place, and threaten new sanctions over the missile development. The funny part is that both you are conceding that this was the obvious thing to do....by ignoring this notion, and doubling down.

We've entered the tech-oldsalt vortex where no matter what, Trump is a genius, and Obama can't tie his own shoelaces. :lol: ;)
Where I stated "as I stated before" refers to postings at the old water cooler on the subject, as Trump pulled out of the deal.

And, obviously, this is the path advocated by all the other signees of the JCPOA.

But the great news is, you and Trump are way too smart to do that. So we avoided Obama's yuge mistake, and it's smelling like a rose over in Iran.

So yeah, great job.
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