old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:31 pm
You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.
Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.
It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Keegan died in 2012 so I doubt he has an opinion on the current state of affairs
You were lecturing on WW II.
obtw Prof Smarty Pants -- who taught those Pacific P-38 pilots the engine fuel leaning techniques necessary to attain the range necessary for the Yamamoto intercept ?
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:31 pm
You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.
Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.
It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:31 pm
You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.
Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.
It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
Uhhh no.
Excellent response. Right up there with "uh huh"
What makes you think killing this general is going to motivate the citizens to topple the government? Most people just live day to day like most people in this country.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:19 pm
by njbill
Tribe and Boot were simply saying Soleimani was the highest ranking military commander assassinated by the U.S. since Yamamoto. That may be true. But neither is saying the killing was justified or a good idea.
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:31 pm
You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.
Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.
It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
Uhhh no.
Excellent response. Right up there with "uh huh"
Well, your assertion was completely unrealistic (and I’m being polite). If anything, the killing strengthened the hand of the clerics and the Revolutionary Guards.
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:31 pm
You may be underestimating the significance of Soleimani & the availability of a worthy successor.
Possibly, but even if the successor is not as charismatic or strategically skilled, he still can do a lot of damage, especially now that he has all of Iran fully behind him and thirsting for revenge.
It remains to be seen whether Trump has pulled the pin on the grenade. That's a scary thought.
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
I haven't seen anything to suggest that. I have seen reports that Soleimani was very popular among the Iranian people which, if true, wouldn't seem to indicate a popular uprising would occur in light of his death. But who knows?
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:32 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Hey Tech, my Persian friend’s brother made a mint in Menlo Park and just bought in Bronxville.... Running a tech company in NYC now. She is coming over in the Summer with her kids. I have 4 or 5 Iranian friends. Just normal people like most here. Only one was “militant” and gave a rats ass about politics. Like here, life is good for those born into good circumstances...
They ain’t all peasants. Life is just as tough in Ansonia and Derby!
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:49 pm
by a fan
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:05 pm
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
Let's say you're right. What makes you think the next regime will be better? We're talking a Civil War here, right?
How's the working out for Syria, for example?
Or, if you prefer, how'd the regime change in taking out Saddam work out for us?
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:57 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Tech is anti fascist!!! Who knew!
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:54 pm
by tech37
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:32 pm
Hey Tech, my Persian friend’s brother made a mint in Menlo Park and just bought in Bronxville.... Running a tech company in NYC now. She is coming over in the Summer with her kids. I have 4 or 5 Iranian friends. Just normal people like most here. Only one was “militant” and gave a rats ass about politics. Like here, life is good for those born into good circumstances...
They ain’t all peasants. Life is just as tough in Ansonia and Derby!
And why are your Persian friends here making it big when they could be back in their homeland, propping up the Mullah regime, confronting the infidels at every turn?
Who said anything about peasants?
In much of the Middle East, and even in Iran, the military commander was feared, and his death has been greeted with elation.
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:05 pm
Has anyone considered that this bold response to Iranian aggression (and the leader of) on foreign soil might actually embolden the Iranian people to finally rise up and overthrow the religio-fascist regime?
Let's say you're right. What makes you think the next regime will be better? We're talking a Civil War here, right?
How's the working out for Syria, for example?
Or, if you prefer, how'd the regime change in taking out Saddam work out for us?
I don't claim to be "right" as you so often do...I'm posing an optimistic hypothetical. And frankly, what could be worse than the regime in Iran?
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:32 pm
Hey Tech, my Persian friend’s brother made a mint in Menlo Park and just bought in Bronxville.... Running a tech company in NYC now. She is coming over in the Summer with her kids. I have 4 or 5 Iranian friends. Just normal people like most here. Only one was “militant” and gave a rats ass about politics. Like here, life is good for those born into good circumstances...
They ain’t all peasants. Life is just as tough in Ansonia and Derby!
And why are your Persian friends here making it big when they could be back in their homeland, propping up the Mullah regime, confronting the infidels at every turn?
Who said anything about peasants?
In much of the Middle East, and even in Iran, the military commander was feared, and his death has been greeted with elation.
Seems to me the Mullahs may be weakened not strengthened by the hit. We shall see...
Some are there. Who do you think is suffering in Iran? It's peasants. Just like here.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:17 pm
by a fan
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:59 pm
I don't claim to be "right" as you so often do..
I claim to be right when I am right. Example? How are those tax cuts that "paid for themselves" working out. You counseled patience. I counseled using mathematics. So yep, shocker, I was right. Because: math. What Trump was selling you was mathematically impossible, but you didn't want to hear it. And what did you get from this fact? You think I'm arrogant. Bzzzzt. Nope. Math works, is what you should conclude. "A fan" had nothing to do with it.
As for claiming to be right-----you might think you don't do that, but you do. You mock anyone who dares say that the path we're on the ME isn't working. So does Old Salt. Trump's way is the only way. If we criticize it? We're nuts, have TDS, or are arrogant. Or all three.
tech37 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:59 pm
I'm posing an optimistic hypothetical. And frankly, what could be worse than the regime in Iran?
And I'm giving you two instances where your thinking played out: Syria and Iraq. Neither worked out well, to say the least. You asked a question, and I gave you a serious answer.
What you are asking for is, to put it politely, unlikely. You think that an Iranian Civil War will be quick and painless....don't say that's not what you think, because you do. If you didn't think that, your first question would be "would a Civil War in Iran be all that bad?"
Picture what that would look like. Think Syria, but instead of 21 million people living in Syria, we're talking 81 million in Iran.
Where do the refugees go? And picture who would win that war. You think it's going to be a bunch of nice guys manning the wheel at the Tehran Starbucks? And what will ISIS do in yet another chaotic country? How about Russia? Who will they back, and why? Will
Putin invade? How about China?
You have the exact answers to all this? I sure don't. But what I do know is that a Civil War in Iran would be significantly worse than what we have now. No question. there. We've already seen this play out twice now. I have NO IDEA why you think "it'll work this time".
I promise you that Trump hasn't thought of any of this. Doubly so for all his TrumpFans. What they know is "Trump killed a bad guy. Hurray!".
VDH made no mention of Iran's nuclear program....which is why we're where we are in the first place.
And no mention of joint Naval exercises with Russia and China.
Neither of those two things are germane to an overview of the situation, right? So best ignore these two trifling details, right.
Those aren't my words. They are not germane to the immediate situation or how we respond to Iran's escalating military provocations.
Iran's welcome to stop the military provocations & come back to the negotiating table. The EUros have been trying to drag them back.
There's an off ramp for the Iranians. The naval exercises are not a reason for concern.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:28 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:18 pm
They are not germane to the immediate situation or how we respond to Iran's escalating military provocations.
Iran's nuclear program isn't germane to how we handle Iran? Why are they escalating in the first place? Bored on a Tuesday afternoon, and looking for something fun to do?
Iran's nuclear program is how we arrived at this place. Ignore it, and naval exercises with China and Russia. Trump is, too. So really, we're all set, everything is goin' great.
Re: The Politics of National Security
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:36 pm
by tech37
a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:17 pm
You have the exact answers to all this? I sure don't. But what I do know is that a Civil War in Iran would be significantly worse than what we have now. No question. there. We've already seen this play out twice now. I have NO IDEA why you think "it'll work this time".
I promise you that Trump hasn't thought of any of this. Doubly so for all his TrumpFans. What they know is "Trump killed a bad guy. Hurray!".
There's a fan at his best...where did I state I have "exact answers?" I posed a hypothetical and posted some articles that were relevant. And I never said "it'll work this time"...why would you put that in quotes? Why do this $hhit? If you're so smart and right so often, you shouldn't need to cheat.
"Trump killed a bad guy. Hurray!". If that's how you characterize people you disagree with, that's pretty sad.
