Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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dislaxxic
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by dislaxxic »

Don’t Blame the Immigrants. It’s Our Laws That Are Criminal.
Around the time that Venezuela was a prosperous country, the Republican party was guided by leaders who sympathized with the plight of those fleeing oppression, and took pride in the fact that so many aspired to come here. But today’s GOP is in the grip of populists who portray desperate asylum seekers as hostile invaders. The Democrats, in this telling, are part of a conspiracy to flood the nation with immigrants who will “replace” the current dominant groups and reliably vote Democrat forever. (It’s ironic that Republicans are actually increasing their share of the Hispanic vote.)

Many on the right portray illegal immigrants as criminals who are “breaking into our house” and deserve to be treated as such. So a word about the law. Under U.S. statutes, if a migrant comes into this country, turns himself in to a border guard or other authority, and asks for political asylum, he is entitled to a hearing. Asylum seekers are not “illegal” immigrants. They are simply following the law we enacted. There are some kinds of attempted entry that are illegal. These include using a fake passport, attempting to cross the border anywhere other than a border inspection point, or attempting to enter on false pretenses. The Venezuelans that DeSantis treated so shabbily were guilty of none of those things. They were simply desperate people hoping for a better life. DeSantis didn’t see suffering human beings. He saw props. He saw Fox News coverage. (Fox, unlike the governor of Massachusetts, was tipped off in advance). And he saw the chance to show the GOP base what a jerk he could be.

The DeSantis justifiers object that border states are being flooded with illegals and that it’s unjust that red states are bearing all of the burden. But the border states are not handling it alone. The federal government has spent roughly $333 billion on border security and immigration enforcement in the past 19 years, with much of it targeted on the southern border. As for the burden of immigration, it’s debatable that immigrants represent a burden at all. Many studies show that they pay more in taxes than they cost in social services and they are more likely to work, start business, and seek patents than the native born (and less likely to commit crimes).

In any case, southern states have no monopoly on immigrants. In Texas, 17 percent of the population is foreign born. That’s about the same as Massachusetts (16.9 percent), and only somewhat higher than the District of Columbia (14 percent), another city that has been the recipient of special delivery immigrants courtesy of Texas Gov. Greg Abbott. While protesting the cost of handling immigrants, Abbott has spent $12 million in taxpayer funds busing immigrants to Chicago, Washington, D.C., and New York City. New York, as it happens, has a higher percentage of foreign born residents (23 percent) than Texas. While the typical image of an illegal immigrant is a person desperately scaling a fence or fording a river from Mexico, a large proportion—in some years, an outright majority—of illegal immigrants are those who overstay their visas.

Those who believe the propaganda that immigration is destroying America should ponder our neighbor to the north. Is Canada a hellscape? The proportion of foreign born there is 21 percent, compared to the American average of 13.7 percent.
eVerify, anyone?

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
Seacoaster(1)
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... -vineyard/

"When Jose joined the migrants behind a McDonald’s on a sunbaked San Antonio street earlier this month, he was running out of options. The 27-year-old had survived the perilous trek from Venezuela and safely crossed the U.S.-Mexico border, but now he had no place to go.

Like the others behind the restaurant on Sept. 8, he’d been kicked out of a shelter after three days. Immigration officials had warned them they couldn’t work legally yet. No one had any money to get to distant cities where friends or family might help.

That’s when a smiling blond-haired woman in a cowboy hat approached. Her name was Perla, she said. And she could fix all their troubles.

It was a pitch Perla had been making to other newly homeless migrants huddled on San Antonio’s streets. She drove a rented white SUV and promised food, jobs and transportation.

Jose trusted her. For the first time since coming to the United States, he felt safe. “We thought she was a good person,” he told The Washington Post.

Nearly two weeks later, though, Jose is one of dozens of migrants who now question Perla’s efforts to entice them onto a flight that unexpectedly ended on the wealthy island of Martha’s Vineyard — a political operation engineered by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) to gin up outrage over the United States’ border crisis.

Much remains unknown about the effort. While DeSantis has embraced his role in staging the flight, arguing that it protected Florida from “negative ramifications” of a border crossing surge, his office has been less clear about the purpose of nearly $1.6 million paid to a contractor, according to state records, and the role of state officials in developing the plan.

But Post interviews with several migrants directly recruited by Perla, as well as court documents and state records, paint a picture of a carefully orchestrated, taxpayer-funded operation with little apparent concern for the interests of the migrants caught in the middle. Florida officials began researching Texas’s migrant situation weeks before the flights, and a contractor with ties to the DeSantis administration later handled the efforts. Some migrants, meanwhile, say they were misled into signing documents after being lured into the trip with food and hotel stays.

“I don’t like the way they treated us,” said Jose, who made the journey to the border with two stuffed animals given to him as a gift by his 5-year old son, whom he left behind with relatives. “We’re human beings.”

DeSantis has reaped political benefits, grabbing center stage on an issue that once helped propel Donald Trump to the White House and putting Democrats on defense over the nation’s chaotic and overstressed immigration system. Republican leaders have embraced his tactics and begun fundraising off pledges to fly migrants to other blue-state enclaves.

But DeSantis also faces legal challenges, including an investigation by a Texas sheriff, who called it a “predatory” operation, a federal class-action lawsuit by the migrants alleging a “premeditated, fraudulent, and illegal scheme,” and a Democratic lawmaker’s state lawsuit challenging the governor’s use of a $12 million migrant relocation fund.

The governor has brushed off the claims, saying all of the migrants got on the plane voluntarily.

“It is opportunistic that activists would use illegal immigrants for political theater,” his office said in a statement. “Florida’s program gave them a fresh start in a sanctuary state.”

Days before the flight landed in Martha’s Vineyard, DeSantis had given not-so-subtle hints about his plans. Speaking to a room of major GOP donors at the Four Seasons hotel in Orlando, he mused about going to Texas to “help.” Border crossers might be rounded up and sent somewhere — possibly to the wealthy island of Martha’s Vineyard. “Who knows?” he teased.

An extraordinary plan had already been set in motion.

The backdrop was the record surge of migrants who have crossed the southern U.S. border this year, driven by soaring violence and poverty in Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba. Last week, border authorities topped 2 million arrests for the year, the most ever.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) has responded to the influx by dispatching thousands of migrants on buses to far flung, Democratic-rich locales. In August, Florida law enforcement officials traveled to the Texas border cities of Del Rio and Eagle Pass to meet with staff from two Texas agencies involved in the state’s migrant busing program.

Florida officials “reached out to better understand the mission, see how it is being carried out and learn more on efforts they may be able to replicate in their own state,” said Ericka Miller, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety.

A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesperson declined to say whether the Texas trips were tied to the migrant flights this month, citing an ongoing grand jury investigation into illegal immigration.

Thousands of those who make it into the United States have ended up at the Migrant Resource Center in downtown San Antonio. The shelter can house 600 people and has served more than 24,000 migrants since it opened in July.

In early September, it was packed as usual with new arrivals. Yerkyn Torres, 36, had left behind his wife and two children in Venezuela to spare them the arduous journey. A 40-year-old woman named Estrella had come from Peru with her 7-year-old daughter. “All I wanted was for my daughter to have a better life,” who spoke on the condition that she be identified only by her first name for fear of retribution from those involved in the migrant flights, said in Spanish. “That’s all I was thinking as I got her across that river.”

As Jose gave his account in Spanish of what happened, accompanied by his lawyer Julio Henríquez, he spoke on the condition that he be identified only by his middle name because of fear of retribution against family in Venezuela and from the Americans who he says misled him.

Jose had been a petrochemical engineering student in Venezuela but dropped out when he couldn’t afford the tuition. Then in December, he said a criminal gang stabbed him in front of his aunt’s candy shop, where he worked, allegedly because his family was linked to anti-government groups.

He escaped in February, traveling by bus and on foot to Peru, where his grandmother had taken his son. But he said the gang was still after him, so in June, his family paid for a bus ticket to Colombia to begin the journey that finally brought him to San Antonio.

He described fording knee-deep mud in the jungles of the Darién Gap linking Colombia and Panama. He hiked past the corpses of migrants who died during the same journey, he said, and lost his phone in a river. Then he walked and hitchhiked through Central America and Mexico into the border city of Matamoros, across a bridge from Brownsville, Tex., where he surrendered to authorities and was detained for several days.

Like many other migrants, Jose lacked a plan when he was forced to leave the shelter after three days. Immigration officers had released him after an aunt’s friend in Philadelphia promised to take him in, but he had no money to get there. Immigration officers told him he had to check in with them on Sept. 28 in Philadelphia or face deportation.

For now, he slept on the street.

Enter Perla.

Perla never gave migrants her last name. But according to the migrants, she was as persuasive as they were desperate. Speaking in English and Spanish, Jose said, she offered them a 90-day stay in a “sanctuary” city that welcomes migrants. She said they had steady jobs for 50 people in fields such as cleaning and carpentry.

“We had been living on the street for two days, and we were getting desperate,” Estrella said of her encounter with Perla.

When Jose met her outside the McDonald’s, he told her he needed to reach Philadelphia, where an aunt’s friend had offered to put him up.

“I can take you where you’re going,” he said Perla told him. “She was very nice. It looked like everything she was saying was true.”

She left and didn’t come back for two days. Then, on a Saturday afternoon, she returned and offered to take eight people to a hotel. Jose jumped at the chance.

The La Quinta was a respite. There were real beds, a swimming pool and a breakfast buffet. Perla brought them pizza and hamburgers at night. “I could shower, I could get dressed,” Jose said. He swam in the pool.

Perla offered migrants $10 McDonald’s gift cards if they signed waivers in which “an entire paragraph about liability and transport” and “language specifying that the journey would take place from Texas to Massachusetts” was not completely translated into Spanish, according to the class-action suit. Jose said the forms he signed were in English and that he couldn’t read them.

Perla told them she would return early the next day, Jose said. About 50 people would board buses to the airport and then take two chartered planes to Massachusetts. “I just wanted to get to Philadelphia,” he said.

The next morning, Sept. 14, they were taken to an airport. There was no security, and no X-ray machine. It was Jose’s first time on an airplane and he began to feel uneasy. He turned, searching for Perla.

“I saw that she was saying, ‘Ciao!’ ” he said. “I said, ‘You’re not coming with us?’ ” She said no, but others, someone of Cuban descent and Puerto Rican or Dominican descent, would guide them.

There was confusion about where they were going. One migrant asked if they could go to New York and was told they were headed to Washington, D.C., or another “sanctuary state,” according to the class-action suit. Perla told Jose they were headed to Massachusetts, he said.

First, though, the planes stopped in Crestview, Fla. The small Panhandle town is near the Destin, Fla., offices of Vertol Systems, a politically connected aviation company. Larry Keefe, DeSantis’s “public safety czar” who heads his immigration crackdown, previously represented Vertol in a dozen lawsuits, the Miami Herald found. Neither Keefe nor a Vertol executive immediately responded to requests for comment.

Under the “relocation program for unauthorized aliens,” the state Department of Transportation paid Vertol $615,000 on Sept. 8, and then another $950,000 on Sept. 19, public records show. The payments exceed the typical cost of a charter flight, experts said, but the governor’s office and the company have not responded to questions about how exactly the money was spent.

One of the pilots was of Colombian descent, Jose said, and the staff served sodas and crackers.

Some migrants worried they were being taken to a remote location. Would it be safe? Just a few minutes before landing, the pilot’s voice came over the loudspeaker: The destination was Martha’s Vineyard. “That was the first time we found out where we’d be going,” Torres said. Many had never heard of the island known as a summer sanctuary for the well-to-do.

The passengers were handed shiny red folders. Among the contents: a brochure titled “Massachusetts Refugee Benefits” imprinted with a proposed redesign of the state flag that a resident uploaded to the internet on a whim, according to the Boston Globe, and a rudimentary U.S. map with an arrow drawn from Central Texas to Martha’s Vineyard. “YOU ARE HERE... ESTA AQUI.”

There was also a “Welcome to Massachusetts” map that identified landmarks irrelevant to the migrants’ urgent needs, including Lucy Vincent Beach and the Featherstone Center for the Arts.

The planes landed around 3 p.m. “Unannounced, except at most, for the flights’ notification to the local air traffic controller,” according to the class-action suit.

When the migrants arrived, a black van was waiting for them outside, Jose said. It dropped the migrants off outside of the nonprofit Martha’s Vineyard Community Services. A woman who answered the door didn’t speak Spanish, and her look of surprise sent the group into a panic, Jose said. She had not been expecting them. They were not supposed to be there.

“People wanted to run away,” Jose said. But when they looked at the map in the red folder, he said, they realized, “we were surrounded by pure water.”

Torres started to think he had been tricked by the government into missing his upcoming immigration date in Texas. “I just want to start working so I can find a place to sleep,” he said in Spanish.

“If I tell you how I felt, I want to cry,” Jose said. “I felt destroyed inside, tricked, frightened. I didn’t know if they were going to put me in jail, if they’d deport me. I just wanted to get to Philadelphia.”

Migrants tried to reach Perla, but they said she didn’t pick up. So they tried the Venezuelan man who had been recruiting them alongside her. He forwarded a recorded voice message from Perla urging the migrants not to worry.

“They have to take charge of you,” she said. “Stay calm. They will take care of you. You have the numbers of the churches. Call the churches.”

Jose and other migrants were furious at the betrayal, but he said the people on Martha’s Vineyard quickly assuaged their fears. A man who spoke Spanish told them not to worry. “He said don’t despair. We didn’t expect you, but you’re here. We’re going to help you,” Jose recalled.

Lisa Belcastro, coordinator of a homeless shelter at a nearby church, began mobilizing dozens of volunteers. Local residents donated food, clothing and suitcases. Belcastro made sure there were enough beds. Belcastro wanted to make sure the group got a good night’s sleep, so she stayed overnight. Lights out at 10 p.m. “They aren’t just refugees or numbers,” she said. “They’re human beings that we care about.”

Lawyers worked to make sure migrants could update their addresses, to prevent being punished for missing immigration appointments and to pursue asylum claims.

Shortly before midnight, a deputy press secretary for DeSantis, Jeremy Redfern, tweeted a picture of former president Barack Obama’s home on Martha’s Vineyard: “7 bedrooms with 8 and a half bathrooms in a 6,892-square-foot house on nearly 30 acres. Plenty of space.”

At a news conference the next morning, DeSantis was put on the spot. “Gov. DeSantis, can you elaborate on reports of deploying dozens of migrants over to Martha’s Vineyard?” asked a television reporter, as the crowd cheered.

DeSantis owned up. “If you have folks that are inclined to think Florida is a good place, our message to them is we are not a sanctuary state,” he said. “And yes, we will help facilitate that transport for you to be able to go to greener pastures.”

Rachel Self, a Boston lawyer aiding the migrants, said they had been told “there was a surprise present for them” upon arrival. “This was obviously a sadistic lie,” she said.

Meanwhile, recruiters were again looking for migrants outside the San Antonio shelter, witnesses said.

The Rev. Gavin Rogers of Travis Park Church in San Antonio said his staff was contacted by migrants last week who had been recruited by a woman calling herself “Perla” and sent to another La Quinta hotel. They were waiting for a flight to Delaware that was ultimately canceled, the Miami Herald reported, in a hotel room booked in Perla’s name. Rogers said a bus took some of the migrants back to the shelter. “Some reached out to us, and we did offer them a place to be,” Rogers said. “Some decided to go their own ways.” DeSantis’s office has not said whether the canceled Delaware flight was part of the state’s operation.

After two nights at the church shelter on Martha’s Vineyard, it was time to get on another bus. This one would take the migrants to a ferry on their way to a nearby military base. Many cried. Migrants filed out of the parish to hugs from volunteers and new cellphones. Donors had provided underwear, purple T-shirts and hats from the local high school and Boston Red Sox apparel. They cheered as each person boarded.

“Without these people here, I don’t know where we’d be,” Eliomar Aguero, 30, said. “Now, we just want to find jobs. But we are just so relieved to be here.”

On the base, Jose said he is meeting with lawyers and attending medical appointments. He said he is eager to learn English and pursue his immigration case. “We feel free,” he said.

But he is upset with DeSantis and the “remote control” team of Perla and other recruiters who he said tricked them into getting on the planes. The lawyers helped him switch his court case from Philadelphia to Boston. The friend who was going to take him in has moved away, so he is hoping to find a permanent place to live in Massachusetts.

“The fear I have is that these are political problems, you know,” he said. “We’re not objects so that they operate us this way.”
CU88
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by CU88 »

At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
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PizzaSnake
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by PizzaSnake »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
“For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet.”

So, do you receive SS or Medicare? You might want to think about how those programs will remain solvent without more workers paying in.

Maybe YOU should be rolling out the red carpet.
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RedFromMI
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by RedFromMI »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
HUGE difference in what the administration is doing - they actually are setting up pickups by relatives or placing the immigrants with charitable organizations who are equipped to house them and are aware they are coming.

And the people DeSantis and Abbot are moving are not necessarily "illegal" but often are here awaiting on an overburdened system to react to their asylum requests. (I have a problem with terming someone who either overstays their tourist visa or comes into the country as actually "illegal" but perhaps someone who has committed an offense).
jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

RedFromMI wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:50 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
HUGE difference in what the administration is doing - they actually are setting up pickups by relatives or placing the immigrants with charitable organizations who are equipped to house them and are aware they are coming.

And the people DeSantis and Abbot are moving are not necessarily "illegal" but often are here awaiting on an overburdened system to react to their asylum requests. (I have a problem with terming someone who either overstays their tourist visa or comes into the country as actually "illegal" but perhaps someone who has committed an offense).
You mean the democratic administration is actually doing something that is part of a solution! Not optimal, but something.

The story of the immigrants from Texas flown to Martha's Vineyard demonstrates well the goodness of the American people in general and the scumbagginess of republiCON leaders and their base.
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:40 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:50 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
HUGE difference in what the administration is doing - they actually are setting up pickups by relatives or placing the immigrants with charitable organizations who are equipped to house them and are aware they are coming.

And the people DeSantis and Abbot are moving are not necessarily "illegal" but often are here awaiting on an overburdened system to react to their asylum requests. (I have a problem with terming someone who either overstays their tourist visa or comes into the country as actually "illegal" but perhaps someone who has committed an offense).
You mean the democratic administration is actually doing something that is part of a solution! Not optimal, but something.

The story of the immigrants from Texas flown to Martha's Vineyard demonstrates well the goodness of the American people in general and the scumbagginess of republiCON leaders and their base.
My concern with the "at least their doing something...(what's not said but true is also: "who cares if it's suboptimal or if we haven't really considered the potential second order consequences becuase we HAVE to do something regardless of opportunity cost and payoff of approach and execution") is that it's a wide open excuse to do anything one wants and that's the defense. "Well we did something"..."ok, sure, but it blew everything up in the process"..."but we did something".

Bloodletting was once considered "doing something", and it killed our first president.

I'm sure as a scientist/doctor you understand my point about systems and dynamic organizations/organisms. That "doing something" argument is akin to "were throwing a Yo becuase we feel activity is more important than outcomes but we're taking a shot at getting our desired outcome with the deed to the house on the line". It may be better to live a barbelled life as an individual from a payoff/return perspective but you surely don't want your administrative, representative governmetn taking that approach. They're suppposed to move among the averages and in the corridor (though Talib would argue that stripping volatility out of system makes the shocks worse, so what do I know, but it seems like the approach shouldn't be barbell for a large government).
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
a fan
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by a fan »

CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
How come DeSantis and Abbott aren't busting big businesses (and small, too) for breaking Texas and FLA laws regarding illegal workers?

Anyone here want to take a wild guess? This is supposedly a crisis, yeah? So why aren't they simply enforcing Texas and Florida laws surrounding labor? State laws prevent illegal work too, in case it escaped anyone's attention. And these Republican run States can pass additional laws anytime they like.

“We know what an important part immigrant labor plays in Texas, and to suddenly wipe out large sectors ... would have a devastating impact on the Texas economy,” said Bill Hammond, head of the influential Texas Association of Business, the state’s top business advocacy group. “We need immigrant labor to do those tasks where not enough Americans will.”

:lol: There it is for all to see, fellas. But sure, "the Dems" and their "open borders." Whatever gets votes, they'll do. Including creating a fixable "crisis".
jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

WE NEED SERVICE AND AGRICULTURAL WORKERS IN THIS COUNTRY VERY VERY BADLY, but yet have this problem. Anyone with half a brain sees the problem and the solution. It is well past time we stopped allowing the un-American nationalist xenophobes in this country to gum up the works. The immigrants love this country more than the un-American nationalist xenophobes do!
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:43 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:40 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:50 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
HUGE difference in what the administration is doing - they actually are setting up pickups by relatives or placing the immigrants with charitable organizations who are equipped to house them and are aware they are coming.

And the people DeSantis and Abbot are moving are not necessarily "illegal" but often are here awaiting on an overburdened system to react to their asylum requests. (I have a problem with terming someone who either overstays their tourist visa or comes into the country as actually "illegal" but perhaps someone who has committed an offense).
You mean the democratic administration is actually doing something that is part of a solution! Not optimal, but something.

The story of the immigrants from Texas flown to Martha's Vineyard demonstrates well the goodness of the American people in general and the scumbagginess of republiCON leaders and their base.
My concern with the "at least their doing something...(what's not said but true is also: "who cares if it's suboptimal or if we haven't really considered the potential second order consequences becuase we HAVE to do something regardless of opportunity cost and payoff of approach and execution") is that it's a wide open excuse to do anything one wants and that's the defense. "Well we did something"..."ok, sure, but it blew everything up in the process"..."but we did something".

Bloodletting was once considered "doing something", and it killed our first president.

I'm sure as a scientist/doctor you understand my point about systems and dynamic organizations/organisms. That "doing something" argument is akin to "were throwing a Yo becuase we feel activity is more important than outcomes but we're taking a shot at getting our desired outcome with the deed to the house on the line". It may be better to live a barbelled life as an individual from a payoff/return perspective but you surely don't want your administrative, representative governmetn taking that approach. They're suppposed to move among the averages and in the corridor (though Talib would argue that stripping volatility out of system makes the shocks worse, so what do I know, but it seems like the approach shouldn't be barbell for a large government).
... I think it is hard to argue that dispersing the immigrants through out the country, moving them away from the border in a controlled fashion is making it worse in the short term or long term.
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HooDat
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:51 pm How come DeSantis and Abbott aren't busting big businesses (and small, too) for breaking Texas and FLA laws regarding illegal workers?

Anyone here want to take a wild guess? This is supposedly a crisis, yeah? So why aren't they simply enforcing Texas and Florida laws surrounding labor? State laws prevent illegal work too, in case it escaped anyone's attention. And these Republican run States can pass additional laws anytime they like.

“We know what an important part immigrant labor plays in Texas, and to suddenly wipe out large sectors ... would have a devastating impact on the Texas economy,” said Bill Hammond, head of the influential Texas Association of Business, the state’s top business advocacy group. “We need immigrant labor to do those tasks where not enough Americans will.”

:lol: There it is for all to see, fellas. But sure, "the Dems" and their "open borders." Whatever gets votes, they'll do. Including creating a fixable "crisis".
nailed it!
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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HooDat
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by HooDat »

my "favorite" is the stupid line about: “We need immigrant labor to do those tasks where not enough Americans will.”

the part they don't say out loud? ..... for what we want to pay them. :?
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23825
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:06 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:43 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:40 pm
RedFromMI wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:50 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:41 am At the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival, Buttigieg said the efforts of Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in sending migrants to Democrat-led cities are “hurting people in order to get attention.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/09/22 ... -festival/

U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg blasted Texas Gov. Greg Abbott and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for sending migrants en masse to Democrat-led cities — accusing the Republican governors of using vulnerable people to call attention to themselves.

“Obviously, there are issues with the border and with migration,” Buttigieg said Thursday during the opening keynote of the 2022 Texas Tribune Festival. “But these are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don’t have a solution.”

Abbott has bused more than 11,000 migrants to cities including Washington, D.C., New York and Chicago. DeSantis followed suit last week when the state of Florida paid to fly migrants from Texas — allegedly luring them by promising housing and jobs in Boston — to the Massachusetts island of Martha’s Vineyard, where they were stranded.

Missing from Abbott and DeSantis’ tactics are any proposals to tackle the broader issue of immigration and border security, Buttigieg said.
In case you have forgotten, the Biden administration has been dissipating the influx of illegal aliens by the means of midnight flights to various cities all over the USA... with no one knowing about it. For all of you arrogant, condescending and self righteous leaders of FLP cities who boldly declared your cities as "SANCTUARY CITIES" You all should be rolling out the red carpet. Well except when they show up unannounced in your own cities and towns... now you FLP hypocrites suddenly have a problem with where the illegals wind up... when they wind up where you live.
HUGE difference in what the administration is doing - they actually are setting up pickups by relatives or placing the immigrants with charitable organizations who are equipped to house them and are aware they are coming.

And the people DeSantis and Abbot are moving are not necessarily "illegal" but often are here awaiting on an overburdened system to react to their asylum requests. (I have a problem with terming someone who either overstays their tourist visa or comes into the country as actually "illegal" but perhaps someone who has committed an offense).
You mean the democratic administration is actually doing something that is part of a solution! Not optimal, but something.

The story of the immigrants from Texas flown to Martha's Vineyard demonstrates well the goodness of the American people in general and the scumbagginess of republiCON leaders and their base.
My concern with the "at least their doing something...(what's not said but true is also: "who cares if it's suboptimal or if we haven't really considered the potential second order consequences becuase we HAVE to do something regardless of opportunity cost and payoff of approach and execution") is that it's a wide open excuse to do anything one wants and that's the defense. "Well we did something"..."ok, sure, but it blew everything up in the process"..."but we did something".

Bloodletting was once considered "doing something", and it killed our first president.

I'm sure as a scientist/doctor you understand my point about systems and dynamic organizations/organisms. That "doing something" argument is akin to "were throwing a Yo becuase we feel activity is more important than outcomes but we're taking a shot at getting our desired outcome with the deed to the house on the line". It may be better to live a barbelled life as an individual from a payoff/return perspective but you surely don't want your administrative, representative governmetn taking that approach. They're suppposed to move among the averages and in the corridor (though Talib would argue that stripping volatility out of system makes the shocks worse, so what do I know, but it seems like the approach shouldn't be barbell for a large government).
... I think it is hard to argue that dispersing the immigrants through out the country, moving them away from the border in a controlled fashion is making it worse in the short term or long term.
I was responding to big picture frequent argument "at least were doing something". In this case DeSantis is flat out a POS and should be charged with or investigated at a minimum for human trafficking. Nice use of fake state flags on thier made up brochures too. And he grabbed them from Tx not even his home state. You want to criminalize women going over a border to get an abortion, then you get jammed up for moving people across state lines under false pretenses.

In this case you may be right, but I sure hope it was done with a lot more forethought and analysis than "it's likely a net positive to distribute them throughout the country and away from the border" becasue if that's the crux of the support for doing so then...

And of course Cradle doesn't know what he's talking about and doesn't have higher order thinking capabilty or interest so that aspect is worthless to debate but I keep hearing increasingly this "it's ok to do anything if you're opponent or alternative isn't doing anything" and that's a recipe for a major major disaster of epic proportions if people believe that process, planning, thought, secnario analysis, operational execution aren't critical to making these significant decisions.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
kramerica.inc
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by kramerica.inc »

jhu72 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:55 pm WE NEED SERVICE AND AGRICULTURAL WORKERS IN THIS COUNTRY VERY VERY BADLY, but yet have this problem.
We need those things, but minimum wage has priced many businesses out of hiring citizens who are on the books.
Couple that with the unwillingness for most Americans to pay a premium for vegetables.
kramerica.inc
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by kramerica.inc »

HooDat wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:26 pm my "favorite" is the stupid line about: “We need immigrant labor to do those tasks where not enough Americans will.”

the part they don't say out loud? ..... for what we want to pay them. :?
100% correct.
For less than minimum wage.
a fan
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by a fan »

HooDat wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:24 pm
a fan wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:51 pm How come DeSantis and Abbott aren't busting big businesses (and small, too) for breaking Texas and FLA laws regarding illegal workers?

Anyone here want to take a wild guess? This is supposedly a crisis, yeah? So why aren't they simply enforcing Texas and Florida laws surrounding labor? State laws prevent illegal work too, in case it escaped anyone's attention. And these Republican run States can pass additional laws anytime they like.

“We know what an important part immigrant labor plays in Texas, and to suddenly wipe out large sectors ... would have a devastating impact on the Texas economy,” said Bill Hammond, head of the influential Texas Association of Business, the state’s top business advocacy group. “We need immigrant labor to do those tasks where not enough Americans will.”

:lol: There it is for all to see, fellas. But sure, "the Dems" and their "open borders." Whatever gets votes, they'll do. Including creating a fixable "crisis".
nailed it!
BTW----I'd be their biggest supporters if they did that. Where do I sign to get those two to enforce those laws on their books?

I gave Trump the benefit of the doubt when he claimed he would go after businesses, and flip Everify on.

I was a fool for doing that.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:14 pm
jhu72 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:55 pm WE NEED SERVICE AND AGRICULTURAL WORKERS IN THIS COUNTRY VERY VERY BADLY, but yet have this problem.
We need those things, but minimum wage has priced many businesses out of hiring citizens who are on the books.
Couple that with the unwillingness for most Americans to pay a premium for vegetables.
Has it really priced them out?
Or is it that since there's no substantive enforcement, it's only rational to employ at the lowest possible cost (including illegally)...as they expect their competition to do...

I can see an argument that might suggest that foreign competition has low cost labor, thus an American farmer or small business man is at a disadvantage if they can't have cheap labor too...but that's a losing argument versus technology and innovation, much less quality and taste, etc, for domestic producers.

Re consumer resistance to paying more for vegetables, we have a really stupid food policy system that favors corn production (sugar) over nutritious vegetable consumption. Cheap calories over nutrition. Big Sugar lobby.

It wouldn't really be that difficult to decide that production and consumption incentives should be re-weighted, making vegetables comparatively less expensive, while also insisting on a living wage being paid to labor (whether "Americans" or migrants). The knock-on benefit would be that foreign vegetable production would be able to pay its workers more as well, making staying in those countries more attractive as well.
Farfromgeneva
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Farfromgeneva »

kramerica.inc wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:15 pm
HooDat wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:26 pm my "favorite" is the stupid line about: “We need immigrant labor to do those tasks where not enough Americans will.”

the part they don't say out loud? ..... for what we want to pay them. :?
100% correct.
For less than minimum wage.
What is a “minimum wage”? Is that the evil socialist thing those FLPw and baddie democrats want for their big city succubi?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
kramerica.inc
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by kramerica.inc »

Minimum wage is law. Below minimum wage is illegal. Unless you're a restaurant server...or undocumented laborer.
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