Page 14 of 294

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:14 am
by Matnum PI
The difference between Trump and other politicians is the difference between a narcissist and someone with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. We know many, many narcissists. And, for what it's worth, some level of self-centeredness is healthy. But the damage done by someone with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder is very different. Including genuinely, sincerely believing that you haven't lost a National Election despite every sliver of evidence pointing at the fact that you most certainly lost. Most cult leaders have a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. Psychopaths and Sociopaths are extremely similar to people with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. It's bad, bad stuff. To find a politician void of narcissistic tendencies is next to impossible. To find a politician who does not have a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder is much simpler. And, with zero fear of contradiction, is critical for the US. This has zero to do with right-left, liberal-conservative, Dem-GOP. This has everything to do with a personality disorder that is so damaging. The insurrection happened because Trump has a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. I'm not ignoring that many Americans feel ignored, are unhappy, etc. But at the heart of this issue is Trump and his Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. And, tech37, yes, Trump (and any other candidate in the future with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder) needs to be sidelined... and held responsible for his behaviors. Including this insurrection.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:22 am
by seacoaster
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 338044001/

"The last time a House speaker set up a select committee with an investigative mandate, Republican John Boehner was speaker, it was 2014, and he was launching the GOP’s sixth probe of a terrorist attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi, Libya, on Sept. 11, 2012. Now Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has announced she’ll name a select committee to look into the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection. If we are to do justice to the events of Jan. 6, we must resist the temptation to compare the Benghazi and insurrection investigations.

The triggers for these two select committee investigations could not be more different. Jan. 6 was an act of domestic terrorism incited and encouraged by our own political leaders. Benghazi was an act of terrorism that exposed vulnerabilities in our foreign embassy security protocols, and Republicans turned it into a way to destroy former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton after earlier investigations had found no serious wrongdoing.

GOP went after Clinton, not truth

“From minute one, it became clear, the purpose was to blame then-secretary of state Clinton, particularly after she became a Democratic presidential candidate," the late Rep. Elijah Cummings, the senior Democrat on the Benghazi Select Committee, said in his book, "We're Better Than This." "The investigation put her under constant scrutiny, accusation, and presumed guilt – at one point including an eleven-hour grilling of Secretary Clinton herself.”

Cummings’ instincts were confirmed by House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, who infamously bragged to Sean Hannity that the Benghazi proceedings were part of a strategy to “fight and win” the 2016 presidential election.

Moreover, when terrorists stormed the Benghazi compound in Libya, resulting in the deaths of four Americans, they did not do so at the instruction of the president of the United States. They did not do so with the support of one of the two major political parties in America. They did not do so as part of a widespread disinformation campaign designed to undermine the integrity of American democracy.

The structure of the Democrats' new select committee must reflect the new reality that their Republican counterparts are engaged in an active cover-up of the events they are investigating. If Republicans in Congress wanted to be honest and equal partners in this investigation, they would have supported forming a bipartisan 9/11-style commission. Instead, they blocked it.

Riot police push back a crowd of Trump supporters storming the Capitol building on Jan. 6, 2021, in Washington, D.C.
The Republican strategy for the Jan. 6 attack is to pretend it didn’t happen. Rep. Andrew Clyde of Georgia has used the phrase “normal tourist visit” to describe the events of a violent insurrection. Never mind there's a photo of him on the House floor trying to barricade the doors to protect himself from those “tourists.” Other Republicans have labeled those who wanted to "hang Mike Pence” as “patriots.” It’s possible that some Republicans in Congress even gave tours to insurrection planners, who may have used those tours to scout the layout of the Capitol.

Some Republicans have made a conscious decision to side with the violent Capitol rioters. Many will attack Democrats and label the select committee a “partisan witch hunt.” They will complain that the committee isn’t fair or equal. My advice: Let them. The facts will speak for themselves. The evidence and testimony will tell the story.

As they did with this year's impeachment proceedings, House Democrats need to appoint their most skilled and savvy members to the select committee. Some who come to mind: Reps. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, Adam Schiff of California, Eric Swalwell of California, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ted Lieu of California, Val Demings of Florida, Joaquin Castro of Texas, Elissa Slotkin of Michigan, Jamie Raskin of Maryland, Veronica Escobar of Texas and Karen Bass of California.

And the Democratic chair needs to have unilateral subpoena and deposition authority. A subpoena request from Republicans or an effort to veto a subpoena should require a majority vote of the committee. If Republicans don’t like that, just quote Benghazi Chair Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., to them from 2015: “I am unwilling to let the minority party veto subpoenas when it is clear they have prejudged the outcome of the investigation.”

Put Fanone first to describe violence

In addition, House Democrats should strongly consider ditching the normal five-minute volleys that alternate between Democrats and Republicans. Instead, give each side a set bloc of time to ask their questions. Just like in an actual court hearing, make the witness answer questions from one side first, and then be cross-examined after.

Finally, nothing is more important than a first impression. The select committee's first witness should be Washington Metropolitan Police Department Officer Michael Fanone. Let officer Fanone tell the story of Jan. 6 from his firsthand perspective. Dare those “law and order” Republicans to tell officer Fanone that what he experienced was just a “normal tourist visit.” Show the world the bodycam footage depicting the moment he was brutally assaulted by these “patriots.”

Republicans are desperate to move on. Many are trying to convince the world that what we can readily see with our eyes and ears isn’t the truth. Democrats don’t have to overreach. They don’t have to use fiery rhetoric. All they have to do is show the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Republicans know that, and they’re terrified of it. It’s time to find out why."

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:27 am
by tech37
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:52 am
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 am That's the trouble with being such a Trump (and his supporters)-hater. Everything/anything else, is viewed through an anything is better than Trump or the end justifies the means filter.
tech, I'll take your comment seriously, though you may not take mine that way.

I do detest Trump and Trumpism. Unabashedly.

However, what concerns me most is what I was writing about in 2015 and 2016 as this movement took root and we saw conservative principles sacrificed to the cult of personality and white resentment, with increasing frequency and range of impact.

That's fine but at same time, you seem blind to the cult, dogma, and totalitarianism on the left. If you're not blind to it, you sure seem to be with your unequal time spent criticizing one side only.

It was apparent, even then, that there were Russian influences in this movement. I have nothing against Russia per se, but Putin's style of authoritarianism and his use of asymmetric methods to undermine the credibility of democratic institutions was clearly an issue. We've seen other authoritarians do similar, (and China is ultimately a bigger strategic challenge) but Putin's efforts have been the most consistently egregious, not just here in the US but around the world with other democracies.

As mentioned many times, nothing new from Russia except their mode of interference.

But more important than Putin's efforts, what alarmed me was the willingness of so many in the supposed 'conservative' ranks to embrace such authoritarianism and demonization of the 'other'. There's always been this strain in America, but it was being given license in ways that had not previously been beyond the fringe.

And I would say that the excessive response to Trump, by both the Resistance and MSM media, caused any expansion beyond the fringe.

Yes, by candidate, then POTUS, now twice impeached former POTUS, Trump, but also by the right wing media voices, ranging from Rush to Hannity and all sorts of others sipping on the bandwagon of white fear and resentment, inciting such to anger and ultimately violence.

See above. Both sides are to blame of course, but IMO, the campaign to destroy Trump was the greater cause.

So, when I ask whether an incredibly offensive, egregiously stupid, attack on the (Trump-appointed) Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by one of the leading media pundits on the 'right' can be full-throatedly denounced by a fellow poster, a retired military officer himself, I'm addressing that core issue.

At what point, do we say "sir, do you have no shame"?

Apparently not from Salty.
That's the cult.

OS is fine and not involved in any cult or cult-like thinking... that's just ridiculous.

How about you, tech..can you full throatedly denounce Carlson?

Denounce? That sounds like cancel. I haven't been following this closely but I did see a portion of what TC said re the general, and to me it seemed disrespectful, and certainly arrogant.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:29 am
by MDlaxfan76
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:14 am The difference between Trump and other politicians is the difference between a narcissist and someone with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. We know many, many narcissists. And, for what it's worth, some level of self-centeredness is healthy. But the damage done by someone with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder is very different. Including genuinely, sincerely believing that you haven't lost a National Election despite every sliver of evidence pointing at the fact that you most certainly lost. Most cult leaders have a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. Psychopaths and Sociopaths are extremely similar to people with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. It's bad, bad stuff. To find a politician void of narcissistic tendencies is next to impossible. To find a politician who does not have a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder is much simpler. And, with zero fear of contradiction, is critical for the US. This has zero to do with right-left, liberal-conservative, Dem-GOP. This has everything to do with a personality disorder that is so damaging. The insurrection happened because Trump has a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. I'm not ignoring that many Americans feel ignored, are unhappy, etc. But at the heart of this issue is Trump and his Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. And, tech37, yes, Trump (and any other candidate in the future with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder) needs to be sidelined... and held responsible for his behaviors. Including this insurrection.
While I agree with you, my concern does run deeper than Trump himself.

It's the willingness of so many to participate in the cult....and why that is.

For many decades, I had many an 'argument' with my dad before his passing, who was adamant that "it can't happen here" ala the rise of a Hitlerian-style political cult leader who gains and consolidates authoritarian power by harnessing the hate and willingness of a small group willing to go to any lengths to gain favor and participate and by the acquiescence of a surprisingly large portion of the population swayed by disinformation propaganda.

But you're right, we're far from finished with this cult and its Leader.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:36 am
by MDlaxfan76
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:27 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:52 am
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 am That's the trouble with being such a Trump (and his supporters)-hater. Everything/anything else, is viewed through an anything is better than Trump or the end justifies the means filter.
tech, I'll take your comment seriously, though you may not take mine that way.

I do detest Trump and Trumpism. Unabashedly.

However, what concerns me most is what I was writing about in 2015 and 2016 as this movement took root and we saw conservative principles sacrificed to the cult of personality and white resentment, with increasing frequency and range of impact.

That's fine but at same time, you seem blind to the cult, dogma, and totalitarianism on the left. If you're not blind to it, you sure seem to be with your unequal time spent criticizing one side only.

It was apparent, even then, that there were Russian influences in this movement. I have nothing against Russia per se, but Putin's style of authoritarianism and his use of asymmetric methods to undermine the credibility of democratic institutions was clearly an issue. We've seen other authoritarians do similar, (and China is ultimately a bigger strategic challenge) but Putin's efforts have been the most consistently egregious, not just here in the US but around the world with other democracies.

As mentioned many times, nothing new from Russia except their mode of interference.

But more important than Putin's efforts, what alarmed me was the willingness of so many in the supposed 'conservative' ranks to embrace such authoritarianism and demonization of the 'other'. There's always been this strain in America, but it was being given license in ways that had not previously been beyond the fringe.

And I would say that the excessive response to Trump, by both the Resistance and MSM media, caused any expansion beyond the fringe.

Yes, by candidate, then POTUS, now twice impeached former POTUS, Trump, but also by the right wing media voices, ranging from Rush to Hannity and all sorts of others sipping on the bandwagon of white fear and resentment, inciting such to anger and ultimately violence.

See above. Both sides are to blame of course, but IMO, the campaign to destroy Trump was the greater cause.

So, when I ask whether an incredibly offensive, egregiously stupid, attack on the (Trump-appointed) Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by one of the leading media pundits on the 'right' can be full-throatedly denounced by a fellow poster, a retired military officer himself, I'm addressing that core issue.

At what point, do we say "sir, do you have no shame"?

Apparently not from Salty.
That's the cult.

OS is fine and not involved in any cult or cult-like thinking... that's just ridiculous.

How about you, tech..can you full throatedly denounce Carlson?

Denounce? That sounds like cancel. I haven't been following this closely but I did see a portion of what TC said re the general, and to me it seemed disrespectful, and certainly arrogant.
"pig" "stupid" "obsequious".
Glad you agree that it's "disrespectful" and "arrogant".
Carlson is a propagandist of the very worst sort...yeah, he should be off of any major media platform...but he isn't because the Fox network is 'all-in' as propagandists.

Absolutely I see the Trumpist movement as existential for democracy, indeed for the conservative principles, and liberal principles, sheesh, American principles that have been so important to our country's success.

If I saw the left as similarly a threat, at present, I'd devote more attention to it.
But it simply isn't.

Could be at some point though, so how we handle such threats is very, very important.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:56 am
by Matnum PI
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:29 amWhile I agree with you, my concern does run deeper than Trump himself... But you're right, we're far from finished with this cult and its Leader.
Agreed. the issue isn't just Jim Jones, it's also his followers. the issue isn't just Manson, it's also his followers. With this said, I think the solution, at least part of the solution, is building awareness about Narcissistic Personality Disorders. How I would've treated my kids pre- and post- understanding ADD and ADHD are two very different things. Or being on the spectrum. How parents treated their kids on the spectrum before and after awareness of Autism are two very different things. Awareness of mental issues helps a lot. And i think the same holds true for this. once the US builds their awareness around Narcissistic Personality Disorders, we'll deal with the issue much better. and this holds true for how we manage the Trumps of the world as well as how people who are vulnerable to the charms of these people will react when faced with a Trump. Awareness, knowledge helps.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:01 am
by Matnum PI
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:36 amIf I saw the left as similarly a threat, at present, I'd devote more attention to it.
But it simply isn't. Could be at some point though, so how we handle such threats is very, very important.
FOR SURE the left is just as vulnerable to a Trump as the right. This isn't even a question. It just so happens that Trump chose the right. So that's where this crisis is happening today.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:06 am
by Typical Lax Dad
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:36 am
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:27 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:52 am
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 am That's the trouble with being such a Trump (and his supporters)-hater. Everything/anything else, is viewed through an anything is better than Trump or the end justifies the means filter.
tech, I'll take your comment seriously, though you may not take mine that way.

I do detest Trump and Trumpism. Unabashedly.

However, what concerns me most is what I was writing about in 2015 and 2016 as this movement took root and we saw conservative principles sacrificed to the cult of personality and white resentment, with increasing frequency and range of impact.

That's fine but at same time, you seem blind to the cult, dogma, and totalitarianism on the left. If you're not blind to it, you sure seem to be with your unequal time spent criticizing one side only.

It was apparent, even then, that there were Russian influences in this movement. I have nothing against Russia per se, but Putin's style of authoritarianism and his use of asymmetric methods to undermine the credibility of democratic institutions was clearly an issue. We've seen other authoritarians do similar, (and China is ultimately a bigger strategic challenge) but Putin's efforts have been the most consistently egregious, not just here in the US but around the world with other democracies.

As mentioned many times, nothing new from Russia except their mode of interference.

But more important than Putin's efforts, what alarmed me was the willingness of so many in the supposed 'conservative' ranks to embrace such authoritarianism and demonization of the 'other'. There's always been this strain in America, but it was being given license in ways that had not previously been beyond the fringe.

And I would say that the excessive response to Trump, by both the Resistance and MSM media, caused any expansion beyond the fringe.

Yes, by candidate, then POTUS, now twice impeached former POTUS, Trump, but also by the right wing media voices, ranging from Rush to Hannity and all sorts of others sipping on the bandwagon of white fear and resentment, inciting such to anger and ultimately violence.

See above. Both sides are to blame of course, but IMO, the campaign to destroy Trump was the greater cause.

So, when I ask whether an incredibly offensive, egregiously stupid, attack on the (Trump-appointed) Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by one of the leading media pundits on the 'right' can be full-throatedly denounced by a fellow poster, a retired military officer himself, I'm addressing that core issue.

At what point, do we say "sir, do you have no shame"?

Apparently not from Salty.
That's the cult.

OS is fine and not involved in any cult or cult-like thinking... that's just ridiculous.

How about you, tech..can you full throatedly denounce Carlson?

Denounce? That sounds like cancel. I haven't been following this closely but I did see a portion of what TC said re the general, and to me it seemed disrespectful, and certainly arrogant.
"pig" "stupid" "obsequious".
Glad you agree that it's "disrespectful" and "arrogant".
Carlson is a propagandist of the very worst sort...yeah, he should be off of any major media platform...but he isn't because the Fox network is 'all-in' as propagandists.

Absolutely I see the Trumpist movement as existential for democracy, indeed for the conservative principles, and liberal principles, sheesh, American principles that have been so important to our country's success.

If I saw the left as similarly a threat, at present, I'd devote more attention to it.
But it simply isn't.

Could be at some point though, so how we handle such threats is very, very important.

As mentioned many times, nothing new from Russia except their mode of interference.

What’s new is rise of social media platforms that can be weaponized on a large scale. American Citizens can be influenced by the unseen hand and Russia was able to work with members of the Trump campaign to help turn a United States Presidential election…. Can you let us know when that happened before on scale? When has a Chairman of a US Presidential Campaign coordinated polling data with Russian intelligence during an election?

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:07 am
by MDlaxfan76
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:56 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:29 amWhile I agree with you, my concern does run deeper than Trump himself... But you're right, we're far from finished with this cult and its Leader.
Agreed. the issue isn't just Jim Jones, it's also his followers. the issue isn't just Manson, it's also his followers. With this said, I think the solution, at least part of the solution, is building awareness about Narcissistic Personality Disorders. How I would've treated my kids pre- and post- understanding ADD and ADHD are two very different things. Or being on the spectrum. How parents treated their kids on the spectrum before and after awareness of Autism are two very different things. Awareness of mental issues helps a lot. And i think the same holds true for this. once the US builds their awareness around Narcissistic Personality Disorders, we'll deal with the issue much better. and this holds true for how we manage the Trumps of the world as well as how people who are vulnerable to the charms of these people will react when faced with a Trump. Awareness, knowledge helps.
No argument with that.

But I think this goes beyond the cult leader and what explains them specifically...this is a way larger set of people than the 'normal' (level of), influenceable cult joiners.

Why is that?
I think it's that there's a very real human tendency to 'otherize' so as to define one's own self-worth and sense of belonging, which can be tapped into by the manipulative NPD political cult leader, but which is triggered by a whole lot of other forces as well. Most importantly in this case, the sense that the country's demographics and thus social structure is inexorably changing. And this 'sense' is turned to fear, resentment, and even hate and violence, by those seeking to manipulate for some sort of gain...and this goes beyond the cult leader himself.

That underlying aspect needs to be challenged, not simply the cult leader...IMO.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:15 am
by Matnum PI
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:07 am...the country's demographics and thus social structure is inexorably changing. And this 'sense' is turned to fear, resentment, and even hate and violence, by those seeking to manipulate for some sort of gain...and this goes beyond the cult leader himself...
While I wholeheartedly agree, some issues are tougher to overcome than others. if we can make every American feel whole, feel safe and hopeful, this would help this issue enormously. heck, NPD aside, making the people of America feel genuinely good is a worthy pursuit. but this is not simple stuff. i put it in the same category as eradicating rape and murder. it would be great, it's important, it needs to be focused on and... until there's a cataclysmic event that happens in our world (like the fulfillment of big religious stuff, heaven on earth stuff), the world will not be eradicated of these evils. In other words, though a noble pursuit, I believe that what you're describing are high-hanging fruits. But i would love to be wrong.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:24 am
by MDlaxfan76
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:15 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:07 am...the country's demographics and thus social structure is inexorably changing. And this 'sense' is turned to fear, resentment, and even hate and violence, by those seeking to manipulate for some sort of gain...and this goes beyond the cult leader himself...
While I wholeheartedly agree, some issues are tougher to overcome than others. if we can make every American feel whole, feel safe and hopeful, this would help this issue enormously. heck, NPD aside, making the people of America feel genuinely good is a worthy pursuit. but this is not simple stuff. i put it in the same category as eradicating rape and murder. it would be great, it's important, it needs to be focused on and... until there's a cataclysmic event that happens in our world (like the fulfillment of big religious stuff, heaven on earth stuff), the world will not be eradicated of these evils. In other words, though a noble pursuit, I believe that what you're describing are high-hanging fruits. But i would love to be wrong.
I see your point and I'm certainly not suggesting that various bigotries can be 'eradicated'...nope, human nature isn't going to change any time soon. But our recognition of this reality and the implicit dangers that presents can be recognized and addressed...despite it being a never ending process of such.

This is actually a 'conservative' thought, that nearly all people have a significant capacity for evil and, thus, such should not be ignored or swept under the rug. We do not live in a utopian world in which we can pretend dangers don't exist. And all attempts to engineer such a world inevitably end in disaster.

So, we must be on guard.
We must take these threats seriously, before they grow so strong as to overwhelm.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:33 am
by Farfromgeneva
tech37 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:22 am Just a question... you seem quite defensive... certainly juvenile, low-EQ, and angry with your reply. No surprise there.
If you are that obtuse than I gave you too much credit.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:10 pm
by jhu72
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:01 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:36 amIf I saw the left as similarly a threat, at present, I'd devote more attention to it.
But it simply isn't. Could be at some point though, so how we handle such threats is very, very important.
FOR SURE the left is just as vulnerable to a Trump as the right. This isn't even a question. It just so happens that Trump chose the right. So that's where this crisis is happening today.
... the left would require an individual with more between the ears. Trump himself could have gone nowhere but to the republican side of the ledger. He is way too attuned to white grievance politics. Those people are truly his kind of people.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:19 pm
by cradleandshoot
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:29 am
Matnum PI wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:14 am The difference between Trump and other politicians is the difference between a narcissist and someone with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. We know many, many narcissists. And, for what it's worth, some level of self-centeredness is healthy. But the damage done by someone with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder is very different. Including genuinely, sincerely believing that you haven't lost a National Election despite every sliver of evidence pointing at the fact that you most certainly lost. Most cult leaders have a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. Psychopaths and Sociopaths are extremely similar to people with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. It's bad, bad stuff. To find a politician void of narcissistic tendencies is next to impossible. To find a politician who does not have a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder is much simpler. And, with zero fear of contradiction, is critical for the US. This has zero to do with right-left, liberal-conservative, Dem-GOP. This has everything to do with a personality disorder that is so damaging. The insurrection happened because Trump has a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. I'm not ignoring that many Americans feel ignored, are unhappy, etc. But at the heart of this issue is Trump and his Narcissisitic Personality Disorder. And, tech37, yes, Trump (and any other candidate in the future with a Narcissisitic Personality Disorder) needs to be sidelined... and held responsible for his behaviors. Including this insurrection.
While I agree with you, my concern does run deeper than Trump himself.

It's the willingness of so many to participate in the cult....and why that is.

For many decades, I had many an 'argument' with my dad before his passing, who was adamant that "it can't happen here" ala the rise of a Hitlerian-style political cult leader who gains and consolidates authoritarian power by harnessing the hate and willingness of a small group willing to go to any lengths to gain favor and participate and by the acquiescence of a surprisingly large portion of the population swayed by disinformation propaganda.

But you're right, we're far from finished with this cult and its Leader.
You can relax your liver skippy. Biden is pretty bad but he has not veered into Hitler territory yet. Give him time, he will get there.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:36 pm
by youthathletics
There might be a poster or two around here that is on the spectrum with NPD ;) :lol:

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:03 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:30 amAnd yet you can't denounce Carlson. Got it.
:lol: ...so petty. Who's trolling now ?
I refuse to jump through your hoops. You don't dictate the terms of the discussion.
I'm trying to discuss what our most senior military officer is telling us about "white rage",
& what his Chiefs are telling their officers & troops they should be reading,
...not some cable news host, who you are citing as a diversion.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:19 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:03 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:30 amAnd yet you can't denounce Carlson. Got it.
:lol: ...so petty. Who's trolling now ?
I refuse to jump through your hoops. You don't dictate the terms of the discussion.
I'm trying to discuss what our most senior military officer is telling us about "white rage",
& what his Chiefs are telling their officers & troops they should be reading,
...not some cable news host, who you are citing as a diversion.
nope, you just can't bring yourself to separate yourself from the racist a-holes like Carlson, who are leading the right wing charge against the COS, even when its an obvious lay up...

I'm happy to discuss how Milley ripped Gaetz and the rest of these imbeciles, how and why he did so, and why he considers studying why Jan 6 to be crucial, why he thinks leaders in the military should understand history fully including parts that are uncomfortable, and why he thinks that's important to actual leadership...but only with someone who is clear about rejecting racist POS like Carlson when he steps way, way over the line.

And you're not that guy, unfortunately.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:24 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:19 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:03 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:30 amAnd yet you can't denounce Carlson. Got it.
:lol: ...so petty. Who's trolling now ?
I refuse to jump through your hoops. You don't dictate the terms of the discussion.
I'm trying to discuss what our most senior military officer is telling us about "white rage",
& what his Chiefs are telling their officers & troops they should be reading,
...not some cable news host, who you are citing as a diversion.
nope, you just can't bring yourself to separate yourself from the racist a-holes like Carlson, who are leading the right wing charge against the COS, even when its an obvious lay up...

I'm happy to discuss how Milley ripped Gaetz and the rest of these imbeciles, how and why he did so, and why he considers studying why Jan 6 to be crucial, why he thinks leaders in the military should understand history fully including parts that are uncomfortable, and why he thinks that's important to actual leadership...but only with someone who is clear about rejecting racist POS like Carlson when he steps way, way over the line.

And you're not that guy, unfortunately.
Does this mean you won't be replying to my posts ? I'm crushed.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:31 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:24 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:19 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:03 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:30 amAnd yet you can't denounce Carlson. Got it.
:lol: ...so petty. Who's trolling now ?
I refuse to jump through your hoops. You don't dictate the terms of the discussion.
I'm trying to discuss what our most senior military officer is telling us about "white rage",
& what his Chiefs are telling their officers & troops they should be reading,
...not some cable news host, who you are citing as a diversion.
nope, you just can't bring yourself to separate yourself from the racist a-holes like Carlson, who are leading the right wing charge against the COS, even when its an obvious lay up...

I'm happy to discuss how Milley ripped Gaetz and the rest of these imbeciles, how and why he did so, and why he considers studying why Jan 6 to be crucial, why he thinks leaders in the military should understand history fully including parts that are uncomfortable, and why he thinks that's important to actual leadership...but only with someone who is clear about rejecting racist POS like Carlson when he steps way, way over the line.

And you're not that guy, unfortunately.
Does this mean you won't be replying to my posts ? I'm crushed.
:D nah, it's just that I was hoping to have an actually constructive discussion.

I'd value your perspective, regardless of whether we see it exactly the same.

But not if you're so way, way down the rat hole you can't see your way out.

Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:32 pm
by tech37
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:19 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:03 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:30 amAnd yet you can't denounce Carlson. Got it.
:lol: ...so petty. Who's trolling now ?
I refuse to jump through your hoops. You don't dictate the terms of the discussion.
I'm trying to discuss what our most senior military officer is telling us about "white rage",
& what his Chiefs are telling their officers & troops they should be reading,
...not some cable news host, who you are citing as a diversion.
nope, you just can't bring yourself to separate yourself from the racist a-holes like Carlson, who are leading the right wing charge against the COS, even when its an obvious lay up...

I'm happy to discuss how Milley ripped Gaetz and the rest of these imbeciles, how and why he did so, and why he considers studying why Jan 6 to be crucial, why he thinks leaders in the military should understand history fully including parts that are uncomfortable, and why he thinks that's important to actual leadership...but only with someone who is clear about rejecting racist POS like Carlson when he steps way, way over the line.

And you're not that guy, unfortunately.
"racist a-holes like Carlson," "racist POS"... if not slanderous, not sure what is.