Johns Hopkins 2020

[Seahawk]

It means not continuing to make dumb mental high school mistakes. Second would be shooting efficiency.

[Blackdoglax]

Seahawk: Not a Hop fan, but I saw an awful lot of dumb play from Hop’s SSDM’S and never saw them taken out last year and the year before so not sure why this player is being held accountable......

[Wheels]

What exactly is player development in college lacrosse? is it learning new ways to dodge, shoot? A new technique to cradle? How to read defenses? I'm seriously always confused by this term when reading it because it's vague to me

Most players coming out of high school can do one or two things really, really well but the other parts of their games aren't as developed. When Matt Rambo came to Maryland, he was a scorer and a primarily a bull dodger (often just to his left hand). If you see video of him in high school, he could just physically steamroll almost any high school defender and never really needed to sharpen other skills, which isn't to say he didn't work on them. Of course he did. But in games, he could dominate without having to have high level passing or shooting skills. By the time he left Maryland, he could stretch a defense with his shooting, he had a full bag of dodges, he could read any defense, he led the team in assists, he developed a good enough right hand to make defenses play him honestly when he went right, and he became the leader of the team. That's player development.

[Sagittarius A*]

What exactly is player development in college lacrosse? is it learning new ways to dodge, shoot? A new technique to cradle? How to read defenses? I'm seriously always confused by this term when reading it because it's vague to me

Most players coming out of high school can do one or two things really, really well but the other parts of their games aren't as developed. When Matt Rambo came to Maryland, he was a scorer and a primarily a bull dodger (often just to his left hand). If you see video of him in high school, he could just physically steamroll almost any high school defender and never really needed to sharpen other skills, which isn't to say he didn't work on them. Of course he did. But in games, he could dominate without having to have high level passing or shooting skills. By the time he left Maryland, he could stretch a defense with his shooting, he had a full bag of dodges, he could read any defense, he led the team in assists, he developed a good enough right hand to make defenses play him honestly when he went right, and he became the leader of the team. That's player development.

+1

[oldjayfan]

And also led his team to an NCAA title. Petro has two UA AA MVP's on the roster. Neither one has developed their full potential. Neither one has reached AA status as a college player. One them had his production fall off of a cliff last year. Where's the player development?
Player development is just one of many issues confronting this program.

Cole Williams was an HM AA in 2018.

Ok fine, but as a junior one would expect further development. Instead, the opposite occurred. He seems to have regressed at least as far the AA committee is concerned. I would say our other starting senior attackmen in 2019 regressed from his junior year as well.
Our other UA AA MVP regressed badly from his freshman year and seemed like a shadow of his former self.
The lack of player development is a serious concern among other concerns.

What exactly is player development in college lacrosse? is it learning new ways to dodge, shoot? A new technique to cradle? How to read defenses? I'm seriously always confused by this term when reading it because it's vague to me

Exactly what I was trying to get across! Player developoment?? Isn't one expected to do most/all of that on their own time? Stick skills,Shooting, lifting, dodging, etc. Obviously you work on that a little in practice, but so does everyone else--the extra work is what separates. Most of practice is spent on team schemes. Offseason, every team--D1D2 & D3 work with coaches individually or small groups. Laughable that any college coach does tell his players what they need to work on...

[Sagittarius A*]

That’s the art of coaching. Some are good motivators. Some aren’t. Some can get their players to buy in and some can’t. Some get the most out of their teams while others get the least. Some put up with nonsense while others don’t.
But every coach at every level takes credit for the All Americans they produce.

[youthathletics]

For those questioning how a coach improves player development and what it means, here is small sample. Maybe you all have never coached or maybe had coaches that only cared about the studs and gave no attention to those in the middle of the pack? Ross spends time 1v1 with players to get more out of them. Players at Duke always become better shooters/finishers and it is witnessed in their coaching clinics.

Keep in mind, players coming into college have some significantly bad habits that got them through HS, but become crippling in college...a good coach recognizes these weaknesses and cultivates efficiency. I believe at bigger programs like JHU and UMD, where the cupboard is full, they just move on to the next in line because they may feel the juice is not worth the squeeze. It is also not uncommon for a freshman to have a great year and then fall off soph year....because now the opposition knows their strengths and weaknesses.

[Typical Lax Dad]

And also led his team to an NCAA title. Petro has two UA AA MVP's on the roster. Neither one has developed their full potential. Neither one has reached AA status as a college player. One them had his production fall off of a cliff last year. Where's the player development?
Player development is just one of many issues confronting this program.

Cole Williams was an HM AA in 2018.

Ok fine, but as a junior one would expect further development. Instead, the opposite occurred. He seems to have regressed at least as far the AA committee is concerned. I would say our other starting senior attackmen in 2019 regressed from his junior year as well.
Our other UA AA MVP regressed badly from his freshman year and seemed like a shadow of his former self.
The lack of player development is a serious concern among other concerns.

What exactly is player development in college lacrosse? is it learning new ways to dodge, shoot? A new technique to cradle? How to read defenses? I'm seriously always confused by this term when reading it because it's vague to me

Exactly what I was trying to get across! Player developoment?? Isn't one expected to do most/all of that on their own time? Stick skills,Shooting, lifting, dodging, etc. Obviously you work on that a little in practice, but so does everyone else--the extra work is what separates. Most of practice is spent on team schemes. Offseason, every team--D1D2 & D3 work with coaches individually or small groups. Laughable that any college coach does tell his players what they need to work on...

You would be surprised at what coaches have to deal with when kids walk through the door as freshmen.

[Wheels]

Exactly what I was trying to get across! Player developoment?? Isn't one expected to do most/all of that on their own time? Stick skills,Shooting, lifting, dodging, etc. Obviously you work on that a little in practice, but so does everyone else--the extra work is what separates. Most of practice is spent on team schemes. Offseason, every team--D1D2 & D3 work with coaches individually or small groups. Laughable that any college coach does tell his players what they need to work on...

Of course the players need to work on developing their own skills, and all of them do. I don't know a single player who spends his/her off-time/off-season working on the things they're already good at. That's be like Steph Curry only shooting 3s in the off-season.

Where coaches help with player development, aside from talking with their players about what they need to work on and actually working with them on those skills, is putting those players in position - during practice or in games - where they have to use those newly developed skills. The best thing Hop did for Cole Williams this past season was to finally invert him. Completely opened up his game. Made him so much dangerous. That all happened because the OC tweaked the offense and moved players into different spots. That wasn't exactly happening for the first half of the season.

[DocBarrister]

Exactly what I was trying to get across! Player developoment?? Isn't one expected to do most/all of that on their own time? Stick skills,Shooting, lifting, dodging, etc. Obviously you work on that a little in practice, but so does everyone else--the extra work is what separates. Most of practice is spent on team schemes. Offseason, every team--D1D2 & D3 work with coaches individually or small groups. Laughable that any college coach does tell his players what they need to work on...

Of course the players need to work on developing their own skills, and all of them do. I don't know a single player who spends his/her off-time/off-season working on the things they're already good at. That's be like Steph Curry only shooting 3s in the off-season.

Where coaches help with player development, aside from talking with their players about what they need to work on and actually working with them on those skills, is putting those players in position - during practice or in games - where they have to use those newly developed skills. The best thing Hop did for Cole Williams this past season was to finally invert him. Completely opened up his game. Made him so much dangerous. That all happened because the OC tweaked the offense and moved players into different spots. That wasn't exactly happening for the first half of the season.

From all indications, Joey Epstein practices what he’s already good at all the time. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t practice new things, but if his game play is any indication, he practices the same moves and shots that he’s been practicing since middle school.

Cole Williams has been inverting ever since he became a starter in 2018. Teams have come to expect it. Think his offensive teammates need to worker harder with him in two-man games.

Would like to see Angelus and Murphy platoon and start right away in that third attack spot.

DocBarrister

[51percentcorn]

Would like to see Angelus and Murphy platoon and start right away in that third attack spot.

If you're coaching for the 2021 season this might be a viable strategy. If you're coaching for the 2020 season this is an absurd statement. You have never seen either of them play a single second in person. I doubt you camped yourself in front of a computer and tried to find PVI games on the internet (or Murphy's high school) so you are either banking on youtube highlight reels or word of sight. Maybe they should play and start - I do not know. I have seen Jacob play several times. PVI is like 7 miles form where I live. I will be very interested to see how he fares at Hopkins. He is a nice player - great lax IQ - quick - on the smaller side. He is one of those players you could see becoming a contributor or another Joe Pollard. He doesn't start sight unseen over Smith or Concannon for example. I have never seen Murphy play - everyone posts about what a lethal outside shot he has. Hopkins needs that skill without question. IF the shot is as advertised - then I would say he needs to have opportunities - at least on EMO.

Wheels is correct BTW - Wiliams' production exploded last season when he started playing from up top.

[DocBarrister]

Would like to see Angelus and Murphy platoon and start right away in that third attack spot.

If you're coaching for the 2021 season this might be a viable strategy. If you're coaching for the 2020 season this is an absurd statement. You have never seen either of them play a single second in person. I doubt you camped yourself in front of a computer and tried to find PVI games on the internet (or Murphy's high school) so you are either banking on youtube highlight reels or word of sight. Maybe they should play and start - I do not know. I have seen Jacob play several times. PVI is like 7 miles form where I live. I will be very interested to see how he fares at Hopkins. He is a nice player - great lax IQ - quick - on the smaller side. He is one of those players you could see becoming a contributor or another Joe Pollard. He doesn't start sight unseen over Smith or Concannon for example. I have never seen Murphy play - everyone posts about what a lethal outside shot he has. Hopkins needs that skill without question. IF the shot is as advertised - then I would say he needs to have opportunities - at least on EMO.

Wheels is correct BTW - Wiliams' production exploded last season when he started playing from up top.

Never suggested starting Murphy or Angelus before Smith or Concannon. Think Smith and Concannon should stay at midfield. Get Murphy and Angelus some playing time right away.

Coach Pietramala does play freshmen on a regular basis, but not enough of them, in my opinion. That was especially true of his six-footer frosh middies last season, and I’m not even talking about Zinn who, despite the myriad protests on this forum, got relatively ample playing time for a freshman. We have some talented freshmen coming in on both offense and defense. Hope they all get some regular playing time.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

Just a reminder that we have all, in the past, agreed that Ryan Brown's game "developed" while in college.

I was super impressed with his play and heart when my son and he played together in the summer before senior HS year, and he had an excellent senior year, but he was not the most touted HS kid out of Calvert Hall, not even the #1 attack man. I saw terrific athleticism that summer (if not size) and a lethal shooting stroke that hid the release, and most importantly a burning desire to win with a willingness to throw everything into the fight. He and my son were simpatico in that sense.

But Ryan wasn't overwhelming physically at that point. However, he continued to grow and by all accounts he worked hard on his physical development, shooting skills, and techniques to get his hands free. The desire never waned.

There's been a persistent question related to ER that the Ryan Brown types who have not hit their full physical maturity as HS freshmen and sophomores, and who have not been told they're god's gift to the sport for years, might well be the guys who "develop" best in college. Haven't peaked physically and Hunger factor.

That's why I've thought that the end of super early ER could well benefit Hopkins.

Interesting article yesterday in the WSJ on the relative importance of coaches and 'captains' of great teams. Sounds to me like it requires both coaches who provide the trust to their players to give them the room to succeed and team leaders who embrace role play versus being 'stars'. Worth considering.

[51percentcorn]

Would like to see Angelus and Murphy platoon and start right away in that third attack spot.

Never suggested starting Murphy or Angelus before Smith or Concannon. Think Smith and Concannon should stay at midfield. Get Murphy and Angelus some playing time right away.

Given that Smith or Concannon are the likely candidates to start at the third attack spot - dependent upon what "dominant hand" you think you need - it appears to me you are suggesting exactly that. i get it that you are not advocating that Smith and Concannon sit on the bench entirely - but you are suggesting starting/platooning two freshmen players that you have never seen play at a position over 1 5th year senior and one traditional senior Captain (almost assuredly since he was a junior captain) that have given you roughly 30-40 goals each. And if you like high school attributes - probably both Smith and Concannon were more lauded than Murphy or Angelus. If not mistaken, Concannon was Newsday's Offensive POY for his Long Island County.

[HopFan16]

Concannon will (and should, IMO) stay at midfield. I suspect the only major decision this offseason will be whether or not to keep Smith at midfield or move him down to attack—and that will likely depend on how well the freshmen and sophomores show in the fall/winter, which should help determine where he is needed most. As a senior captain with a team-first reputation, he’ll play wherever the team needs him. If Murphy (or someone else) arrives on campus and makes it clear that he should be starting then Smith will probably stay at middie. If one or two of these freshmen/sophomore middies surprise and DeSimone looks better and it’s clear Zinn is going to play—maybe you aren’t so panicked about midfield production and can move Smith back to his natural attack slot. He is an extremely efficient shooter and understands the off-ball game well. I’ve said this before but if he’s suddenly a guy who never leaves the field then he will give you a Brandon Benn type of season.

Re: Doc’s comment about Zinn, yes he saw a good amount of the field “for a freshman” but the problem was that virtually none of it was *on offense*.

[51percentcorn]

Concannon will (and should, IMO) stay at midfield.

We know this how?
And to be clear - I am not saying Concannon is going to start at attack - but it is not out of the question. He was a very highly rated recruit coming out of Syosset at attack. Hopkins attack lately has sported two left handed players - Concannon started out at attack the fall of his freshmen year but of course there was never any room with Dismuke/Marr on that side - so if he was going to play it was at middie. If I had to plop down money on the issue - it would be on Smith. But as Petro and Benson are meeting and starting to sketch out the fall possibilities - Concannon at attack is almost certainly on the list. You could also argue that his smaller size/quickness could be more effective guarded by bigger 6-ft. poles than by athletic SSDMs that can stay with him and push him off his dodges. Again, I am not putting a high level of probability on it - but it is higher IMO than Murphy or Angelus.

[Sagittarius A*]

Smith had the highest shooting percentage on the team last year for offensive players, .457
That screams for him to be playing crease attack. He's wasted playing midfield for another year.
He was scoring 3-4 points a game towards the end of last season. He could be scoring 5-7 points a game starting on attack.
He works well with Epstein and he doesn't make dumb mistakes. There's a gaping hole at crease attack for 2020.
I'd be stunned if the coaches don't move him back to his natural position.

Most middies make a major leap from their freshman to soph campaigns with some notable recent exceptions.
Zinn should be playing on the first midfield line next season. Again, I'd be surprised if he doesn't move into that spot vacated by Smith.
I also would love to see Mabbett move into a role on the second midfield.
If you can't get open with speed and quickness, use size and strength to get your shot off. Mabbett poses match up problems. Even .01 is better than 0.0

The defense seems to be more of a concern. Giving up 13 goals a game has got to be the worst Hopkins defense of this Century, maybe ever.

[Sagittarius A*]

Here's list of teams with worse defenses in 2019:

60 Utah 15 197 13.13
61 Bellarmine 13 172 13.23
62 Lafayette 15 200 13.33
63 Michigan 13 175 13.46
64 Fairfield 14 189 13.50
65 Robert Morris 17 232 13.65
66 Hampton 11 152 13.82
67 Hartford 15 208 13.87
68 Siena 13 181 13.92
69 VMI 13 188 14.46
- Mercer 13 188 14.46
71 Harvard 13 190 14.62
72 St. Bonaventure 13 193 14.85
73 NJIT

[51percentcorn]

Point about the defense is well taken - #1 priority

Still - when you look at this team offensively -one thing is conspicuous - see if you can use your spidey sense and spot the one that is not like the others:
52-49-35
49-36-25
52-51-36
57-39-25
26-26-17

The last series - of course - is the Hopkins 1st mid-field points production from last year
The first 4 are the 1st mid-fields from the final four participants - given that these teams are also rolling out Moore, Kraus, Ament, O'Keefe, Brandau, Morrill, Robertson, etc. at attack you cannot afford to have the line you send out there 60%+ of the time be so anemic. It would likely look even worse if you did goals given DeSimone's 4. The defense better improve if this doesn't. So the question becomes - how does this get better? If you take Smith off of the mid-field - will he really produce 4-5 points at attack per game? Will his replacement improve upon 26? What would Concannon produce at attack with a replacement there? Or IF one of the freshmen can demonstrate an ability to play - let's say for argument's sake - Murphy can drill holes in the net - is it better to leave Smith at midfield - believe that his 2-3 gpg can continue like the last 4 games of the season at middie and his 26 points grow to 35-40? Unless one of the following - Mabbett, Lily, Degnon, Schreiber or Brunner - really blows Petro's skirts up in the fall/early spring - the mid-field really hinges on DeSimone and Zinn. By now - for Hopkins to be contending - you would need DeSimone (once considered to be just a tick behind Moore as the top recruit in the country - seems absurd now) to be one of those 40/50 point players next year and for Zinn to make a leap where he is in the 30's.

Yes you have to stop someone - but in this day and age you have to sometimes light up the scoreboard as well

[Homer]

If you take Smith off of the mid-field - will he really produce 4-5 points at attack per game? Will his replacement improve upon 26? What would Concannon produce at attack with a replacement there? Or IF one of the freshmen can demonstrate an ability to play - let's say for argument's sake - Murphy can drill holes in the net - is it better to leave Smith at midfield - believe that his 2-3 gpg can continue like the last 4 games of the season at middie and his 26 points grow to 35-40?

I think to some extent all of this has to be a question of what alignment you think best complements the two guys you'd describe right now as "knowns." You've got Epstein working from x and Williams bumped out up top -- last season the third guy was Marr and half the time you could've completely forgotten he was out there -- big change from the previous year when he could feed off Shack's passing to open things up. I feel like maybe with this group the spacing doesn't work so well for a stationary sniper in the 3rd attack role, and a savvy crease finisher like Smith can be a more effective option.

If Murphy does turn out to be a howitzer as advertised and you want him to contribute in a role he can quickly master -- I'd note that EMO specialist is a position we got 3g, 2a from last season.

By now - for Hopkins to be contending - you would need DeSimone (once considered to be just a tick behind Moore as the top recruit in the country - seems absurd now) to be one of those 40/50 point players next year and for Zinn to make a leap where he is in the 30's.

I'm asking this out of genuine curiosity, not in any way to denigrate the kid who had a very rough season. For those of you who have a better sense of talent evaluation than I do, what's the upside case for DeSimone? I know he had a ton of accolades coming out of HS, and I thought he acquitted himself well as a freshman, but even then I had some trouble picturing exactly what I thought a breakout year for him would look like. He seemed like a decent player who understood his role, made very few mistakes, and was good for a goal a game, usually on a late-possession defensive breakdown (and generally from the same spot on the field). Nothing wrong with having a guy who can do that! It just wasn't clear to me what his plus-level attributes were considered to be -- in the way that with some players who ultimately don't pan out, even so you can immediately see from watching them what the hype was all about. If DeSimone does bounce back, what's his ceiling look like? Are there recent players who strike you as good comparisons?