old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:54 am
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
yup...my wife is a school teacher and has heard this on multiple occasions. If the vaccine is not being advised for children, then how does one rationalize it would be safe for a child in utero.
A pregnant woman should be able to social distance for 7-9 months and forgo the vaccine. Strict social distancing is an effective mitigant. I believe there is a 3-5% chance for natural birth defects. Any vaccines on record for causing a birth defect? It would be at least a data point.
It is not just about birth defects. We have a friend with a young child that received a vaccine (cant recall which one, I will update when wife reminds me), normal healthy child, within 48 hours the vaccine was doing damage, lost control of motor skills, wheel chair bound entire life. It happens and is real life, it effects everyone around them and is not always going to be a stat one can measure.
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:54 am
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
yup...my wife is a school teacher and has heard this on multiple occasions. If the vaccine is not being advised for children, then how does one rationalize it would be safe for a child in utero.
A pregnant woman should be able to social distance for 7-9 months and forgo the vaccine. Strict social distancing is an effective mitigant. I believe there is a 3-5% chance for natural birth defects. Any vaccines on record for causing a birth defect? It would be at least a data point.
It is not just about birth defects. We have a friend with a young child that received a vaccine (cant recall which one, I will update when wife reminds me), normal healthy child, within 48 hours the vaccine was doing damage, lost control of motor skills, wheel chair bound entire life. It happens and is real life, it effects everyone around them and is not always going to be a stat one can measure.
The Florida Hospital Assn confirms that Florida reported more COVID hospitalizations yesterday, than at any point during the entire pandemic: 10,207.
That's not cases, folks; it's hospitalizations.
DeSantis' office was contacted, and disputed the number.
Surprised?
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:15 am
by Typical Lax Dad
CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:48 am
The Florida Hospital Assn confirms that Florida reported more COVID hospitalizations yesterday, than at any point during the entire pandemic: 10,207.
That's not cases, folks; it's hospitalizations.
DeSantis' office was contacted, and disputed the number.
Surprised?
Anyone know what % of hospitalizations result in death? My guess is that it is higher than 2%.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:26 am
by Peter Brown
CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:48 am
The Florida Hospital Assn confirms that Florida reported more COVID hospitalizations yesterday, than at any point during the entire pandemic: 10,207.
That's not cases, folks; it's hospitalizations.
DeSantis' office was contacted, and disputed the number.
Surprised?
Are you, ummmmm, suggesting that the increase in Covid cases is all Ron’s fault?
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:05 am
Many young, healthy people do a personal risk assessment on whether or not to take the vaccine.
Given that it is still an Emergency Use Authorization indicates that it is not yet possible to know the long term effects.
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
So far, they prefer to take the risk of surviving the infection. If Delta produces significantly more hospitalizations & serious illness among the young without high risk factors, more will accept the vaccination.
When the govt cites broad categories of stats, without distinguishing or controlling for risk factors within the group cited, it undermines confidence in the motives of the govt.
2% of the 199,000,000 cases opened up have ended in death. Enough people don’t get vaccinated, we may get to Zeta. When these people are sitting at home and perhaps out of work, it’s not “the government’s fault”….it’s ain’t called a novel virus for nothing. Wishful thinking and prayers may eventually help…. You speak for all those people?
I speak only for myself -- I'm vaccinated. I'm passing along what decliners have told me.
They need to be convinced. What's been done has not worked on them.
They are accurate when the say none of us know the long term effects of these vaccines still under an EUSA.
Estimates are that the rest of the globe won't have vaccine avail to all willing to take it until sometme in 2023.
We'll have zeta here by then, unless we close our borders.
Unfortunately, that "convinced" part is going to need to be through carrots and sticks, likely mostly sticks.
Actual data really doesn't matter to most of the deniers and resistors in the US. We live in strange times where there's such intense effort to delegitimatize government, science, expertise of any kind. But that's our reality.
Doesn't mean that we shouldn't try darn hard to make clear the bases for making the choice to be vaccinated, including debunking BS (eg that the vaccine impacts fertility...we do have that data now), but we shouldn't think that's going to be enough given the array of interests aligned the other way.
Sure, none of us know the longterm impacts of any medication or vaccine until very retrospective. The chances of unseen effects cropping up years later declines pretty rapidly, but it never truly goes away...meanwhile, we do know the potential risks and costs of infections spreading. We know about the deaths and we're beginning to learn about the potential effects on survivors...what we don't know is how many more negative effects will be found over time from a survived infection...
Weigh these and it's easy. But not for the deniers.
So...listening to the author of "Nudge", it's pretty clear that we're going to need some things mandated, with costs/penalties associated with refusal to comply. Sticks.
Whether that's denial of access to certain services or opportunities (including employment) without proof of vaccination or no insurance coverage for costs of health care if not vaccinated or...
That's going to get people upset, but it's going to be necessary, unfortunately.
CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:48 am
The Florida Hospital Assn confirms that Florida reported more COVID hospitalizations yesterday, than at any point during the entire pandemic: 10,207.
That's not cases, folks; it's hospitalizations.
DeSantis' office was contacted, and disputed the number.
Surprised?
Are you, ummmmm, suggesting that the increase in Covid cases is all Ron’s fault?
All?
Nope, there are lots of ignorant folks in Florida who have been misled.
DeSantis isn't responsible for 'all'...but he IS responsible for HIS leadership.
And his leadership has been on the wrong path, given the realities of Delta.
Note that while these hospitalizations may result in less death per hospitalization than in the first go round (hopefully!), the long term effects of severe, but survived, cases are just beginning to be understood and it ain't pretty.
We're seeing far more cases of severe reactions among younger people, including children, with Delta...that should be quite worrisome.
What we don't know, as yet, is whether less severe cases also have long term effects.
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:05 am
Many young, healthy people do a personal risk assessment on whether or not to take the vaccine.
Given that it is still an Emergency Use Authorization indicates that it is not yet possible to know the long term effects.
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
So far, they prefer to take the risk of surviving the infection. If Delta produces significantly more hospitalizations & serious illness among the young without high risk factors, more will accept the vaccination.
When the govt cites broad categories of stats, without distinguishing or controlling for risk factors within the group cited, it undermines confidence in the motives of the govt.
2% of the 199,000,000 cases opened up have ended in death. Enough people don’t get vaccinated, we may get to Zeta. When these people are sitting at home and perhaps out of work, it’s not “the government’s fault”….it’s ain’t called a novel virus for nothing. Wishful thinking and prayers may eventually help…. You speak for all those people?
I speak only for myself -- I'm vaccinated. I'm passing along what decliners have told me.
They need to be convinced. What's been done has not worked on them.
They are accurate when the say none of us know the long term effects of these vaccines still under an EUSA.
Estimates are that the rest of the globe won't have vaccine avail to all willing to take it until sometme in 2023.
We'll have zeta here by then, unless we close our borders.
Strict social distancing works even better…but but.
Democrats in action, nothing beats it!!!
1. Lori Beetlejuice Lightfoot attends 250,000 person Lollapalooza event maskless
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:05 am
Many young, healthy people do a personal risk assessment on whether or not to take the vaccine.
Given that it is still an Emergency Use Authorization indicates that it is not yet possible to know the long term effects.
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
So far, they prefer to take the risk of surviving the infection. If Delta produces significantly more hospitalizations & serious illness among the young without high risk factors, more will accept the vaccination.
When the govt cites broad categories of stats, without distinguishing or controlling for risk factors within the group cited, it undermines confidence in the motives of the govt.
2% of the 199,000,000 cases opened up have ended in death. Enough people don’t get vaccinated, we may get to Zeta. When these people are sitting at home and perhaps out of work, it’s not “the government’s fault”….it’s ain’t called a novel virus for nothing. Wishful thinking and prayers may eventually help…. You speak for all those people?
I speak only for myself -- I'm vaccinated. I'm passing along what decliners have told me.
They need to be convinced. What's been done has not worked on them.
They are accurate when the say none of us know the long term effects of these vaccines still under an EUSA.
Estimates are that the rest of the globe won't have vaccine avail to all willing to take it until sometme in 2023.
We'll have zeta here by then, unless we close our borders.
Strict social distancing works even better…but but.
Democrats in action, nothing beats it!!!
1. Lori Beetlejuice Lightfoot attends 250,000 person Lollapalooza event maskless
They'd be 1000% right, too. Both WaPo and NYT guilty of eyeball chasing headlines which did not accurately reflect the CDC research guidelines.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:51 am
by CU88
This is brutal:
Breakthrough cases
As of July 26, 2021, 6,587 breakthrough infections resulted in hospitalization or death.
The CDC isn’t tracking mild or moderate breakthrough cases, which continues to be a big mistake. Cue the Kaiser Family Foundation who has been tracking data across 24 states. Over the weekend, they reported that almost all COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated:
Unvaccinated accounted for 92.02% of cases in Oklahoma to 99.85% Connecticut.
Among hospitalizations, unvaccinated accounted for 95.02% in Alaska to 99.93% in New Jersey.
Florida, in particular, is important to highlight. With only 6.5% of the U.S. population, it’s making up more than 20% of cases. Over the weekend, Florida reported 21,683 cases in ONE day, which is the biggest one-day increase on record. They also have the highest rate of hospitalization in the country (38 per 100,000). Yesterday, Florida broke its previous record for hospitalizations from last July with 10,207 hospitalized for COVID19.
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:05 am
Many young, healthy people do a personal risk assessment on whether or not to take the vaccine.
Given that it is still an Emergency Use Authorization indicates that it is not yet possible to know the long term effects.
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
So far, they prefer to take the risk of surviving the infection. If Delta produces significantly more hospitalizations & serious illness among the young without high risk factors, more will accept the vaccination.
When the govt cites broad categories of stats, without distinguishing or controlling for risk factors within the group cited, it undermines confidence in the motives of the govt.
2% of the 199,000,000 cases opened up have ended in death. Enough people don’t get vaccinated, we may get to Zeta. When these people are sitting at home and perhaps out of work, it’s not “the government’s fault”….it’s ain’t called a novel virus for nothing. Wishful thinking and prayers may eventually help…. You speak for all those people?
I speak only for myself -- I'm vaccinated. I'm passing along what decliners have told me.
They need to be convinced. What's been done has not worked on them.
They are accurate when the say none of us know the long term effects of these vaccines still under an EUSA.
Estimates are that the rest of the globe won't have vaccine avail to all willing to take it until sometme in 2023.
We'll have zeta here by then, unless we close our borders.
Strict social distancing works even better…but but.
Democrats in action, nothing beats it!!!
1. Lori Beetlejuice Lightfoot attends 250,000 person Lollapalooza event maskless
Man, love to see this!!! Will MDLax peel away from Desantis Derangement to criticize these Democratic politicians?!
I'm 100% ok with critiquing any actual hypocrisy from any of these elected officials. And certainly any stumbles in messaging.
Tell me, what was or will be the vaccine status of the participants?
Is that confirmed status?
Are the events inside or outside?
What was the ventilation, if inside at all...were ANY participants, whether guests or staff unvaccinated?
This mask mandate for inside is all about the inability to control for, in lots of situations, the vaccination status of those around you.
If everyone is vaccinated, risk goes nearly to nil...but if not, it's a problem in areas where Delta is present.
... the Chicago rock concert required presentation of proof of vaccination (Federal vaccination card), or a clean COVID test within 2 days before the concert and wear a mask. It was an outdoor event. Lots of unvaccinated folks tried to attend without COVID test but were turned away at the gates. According to reports. The organizers apparently followed guidelines.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:56 am
by jhu72
CU88 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:51 am
This is brutal:
Breakthrough cases
As of July 26, 2021, 6,587 breakthrough infections resulted in hospitalization or death.
The CDC isn’t tracking mild or moderate breakthrough cases, which continues to be a big mistake. Cue the Kaiser Family Foundation who has been tracking data across 24 states. Over the weekend, they reported that almost all COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have occurred among people who are unvaccinated or not yet fully vaccinated:
Unvaccinated accounted for 92.02% of cases in Oklahoma to 99.85% Connecticut.
Among hospitalizations, unvaccinated accounted for 95.02% in Alaska to 99.93% in New Jersey.
Florida, in particular, is important to highlight. With only 6.5% of the U.S. population, it’s making up more than 20% of cases. Over the weekend, Florida reported 21,683 cases in ONE day, which is the biggest one-day increase on record. They also have the highest rate of hospitalization in the country (38 per 100,000). Yesterday, Florida broke its previous record for hospitalizations from last July with 10,207 hospitalized for COVID19.
... this last bit about Florida is obviously wrong, just wait Goebbels will set you straight. There is no COVID in Florida.
old salt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:05 am
Many young, healthy people do a personal risk assessment on whether or not to take the vaccine.
Given that it is still an Emergency Use Authorization indicates that it is not yet possible to know the long term effects.
We've encountered many young female vet techs & health care workers who fear potential fertility & birth defect risks, yet unknown.
So far, they prefer to take the risk of surviving the infection. If Delta produces significantly more hospitalizations & serious illness among the young without high risk factors, more will accept the vaccination.
When the govt cites broad categories of stats, without distinguishing or controlling for risk factors within the group cited, it undermines confidence in the motives of the govt.
2% of the 199,000,000 cases opened up have ended in death. Enough people don’t get vaccinated, we may get to Zeta. When these people are sitting at home and perhaps out of work, it’s not “the government’s fault”….it’s ain’t called a novel virus for nothing. Wishful thinking and prayers may eventually help…. You speak for all those people?
I speak only for myself -- I'm vaccinated. I'm passing along what decliners have told me.
They need to be convinced. What's been done has not worked on them.
They are accurate when the say none of us know the long term effects of these vaccines still under an EUSA.
Estimates are that the rest of the globe won't have vaccine avail to all willing to take it until sometme in 2023.
We'll have zeta here by then, unless we close our borders.
Strict social distancing works even better…but but.
Democrats in action, nothing beats it!!!
1. Lori Beetlejuice Lightfoot attends 250,000 person Lollapalooza event maskless
Man, love to see this!!! Will MDLax peel away from Desantis Derangement to criticize these Democratic politicians?!
I'm 100% ok with critiquing any actual hypocrisy from any of these elected officials. And certainly any stumbles in messaging.
Tell me, what was or will be the vaccine status of the participants?
Is that confirmed status?
Are the events inside or outside?
What was the ventilation, if inside at all...were ANY participants, whether guests or staff unvaccinated?
This mask mandate for inside is all about the inability to control for, in lots of situations, the vaccination status of those around you.
If everyone is vaccinated, risk goes nearly to nil...but if not, it's a problem in areas where Delta is present.
... the Chicago rock concert required presentation of proof of vaccination (Federal vaccination card), or a clean COVID test within 2 days before the concert and wear a mask. It was an outdoor event. Lots of unvaccinated folks tried to attend without COVID test but were turned away at the gates. According to reports. The organizers apparently followed guidelines.
Good riddance…..send them to the cave from Ben-Hur.
Re: All things CoronaVirus
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:02 pm
by youthathletics
Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:29 am
Excellent piece in Columbia Journalism Review entitled -
"How major media outlets screwed up the vaccine ‘breakthrough’ story"
They'd be 1000% right, too. Both WaPo and NYT guilty of eyeball chasing headlines which did not accurately reflect the CDC research guidelines.
Not a good look, but one most us have discussed about the NYT and TWP ad nauseum. Funny how there was this POTUS one time that started to talk about #FakeNews and nobody believed him....seems like only yesterday.
Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:29 am
Excellent piece in Columbia Journalism Review entitled -
"How major media outlets screwed up the vaccine ‘breakthrough’ story"
They'd be 1000% right, too. Both WaPo and NYT guilty of eyeball chasing headlines which did not accurately reflect the CDC research guidelines.
Not a good look, but one most us have discussed about the NYT and TWP ad nauseum. Funny how there was this POTUS one time that started to talk about #FakeNews and nobody believed him....seems like only yesterday.
Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:29 am
Excellent piece in Columbia Journalism Review entitled -
"How major media outlets screwed up the vaccine ‘breakthrough’ story"
They'd be 1000% right, too. Both WaPo and NYT guilty of eyeball chasing headlines which did not accurately reflect the CDC research guidelines.
Not a good look, but one most us have discussed about the NYT and TWP ad nauseum. Funny how there was this POTUS one time that started to talk about #FakeNews and nobody believed him....seems like only yesterday.
Reader discretion is always a good idea when consuming ANY media source. As evidenced here, even those two outlets deserve a check on their most significant stories. My bottom line, if a source does not seem in line at first glance double check another trusted source.
No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater but skepticism of anything you read especially online is not a bad thing.
Kismet wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:29 am
Excellent piece in Columbia Journalism Review entitled -
"How major media outlets screwed up the vaccine ‘breakthrough’ story"
They'd be 1000% right, too. Both WaPo and NYT guilty of eyeball chasing headlines which did not accurately reflect the CDC research guidelines.
Not a good look, but one most us have discussed about the NYT and TWP ad nauseum. Funny how there was this POTUS one time that started to talk about #FakeNews and nobody believed him....seems like only yesterday.
Reader discretion is always a good idea when consuming ANY media source. As evidenced here, even those two outlets deserve a check on their most significant stories. My bottom line, if a source does not seem in line at first glance double check another trusted source.
No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater but skepticism of anything you read especially online is not a bad thing.
