Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:19 pm
Mhmm. Although let's hope the last election was an outlier, because the same thing could have been said had HRC won. It was a lose-lose proposition teed up for us.
Same Party, Different House
https://fanlax.com/forum/
It makes sense to me that unskeptical, overly-sure voters would vote for a candidate who has those exact same tendencies. Recall that oh-so-telling Trump quote -- "I love the poorly educated!"If the Dunning-Kruger effect is what you believe Trump has, what does that say about America...phew, we are eff'd
This has nothing to do with Trump or US defendants or suspects.Trinity wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:33 pm New filing says Russian IRC is working hard to discredit the Mueller probe. Probably because they’re innocent. Matt Whitaker said this is almost over? Now I get his sweating. Trump’s missing in action.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... e-russians
A "speaking" indictment, issued to justify the SC investigation, turns into an exploding cigar.FBI investigators had found no evidence that government servers holding the data had been hacked, according to Mueller’s team, pointing instead to a leak on the Russian side.
Mueller disclosed the leak in a filing as part of his prosecution of Concord Management and Consulting, a Russian company that allegedly funded hacking operations by Russia’s notorious Internet Research Agency (IRA).
The filing argued that attorneys for Concord should not be given access to “sensitive” evidence gathered by Mueller’s team for the case.
(Edited) It was subject to a protective order, arguably violated because the information was used for disinformation purposes. Rough day for the defense lawyers, who are clearly worried about having violated a protective order in a, um, rather serious federal case.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:07 pm [CNN Breaking News] Special Counsel : Russians altering evidence in Mueller probe to discredit investigation.
The world is laughing at us. Punked by Putin again.
American leakers ? US lawyers can't share discovery evidence with their clients & their Russian lawyers ?
Good point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
Yes, of course, if that's the case.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 pmGood point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
You really get more ridiculous with every post you throw against the wall to see if it’ll stick. Really un-forkin believable.That evidence should have been shared with the Gang of 8, inside a SCIF, with no note taking.
They could have then convinced the US public that the Russians did it, ...without divulging specifics.
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:46 pmYes, of course, if that's the case.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 pmGood point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
But why not wait until you can make the case against a US citizen, before exposing all that highly sensitive intel to discovery.
...or if you just charge the Americans, you don't have to share that intel with Russians who will never stand trial.
You don't have to worry about US lawyers sharing the discovery evidence with Russian lawyers.
Ok, now we're onto something. You are absolutely right about the significance of exposing all of this intel. I think Robert Mueller is also aware of this risk. So what does it tell you that he is clearly willing to accept the risk here (by "criminalizing" counter-intelligence)? Does the former FBI director just have too much prosecutor DNA, rendering him obtuse as to these concerns? Maybe. None of us knows, of course, but I happen to think it means he believes highly-placed Americans are very much involved in the crimes and he realizes that such Americans are so highly placed that this is as much of a public and political case as one could ever imagine -- a case potentially involving an unindictable person and his family members, which means he needs to build his case in public as much as he can under circumstances where it might hamper his own efforts and many inside forces are actively opposing him. I have to think Mueller is walking on a very tight rope right now. Few could handle the job.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:46 pmYes, of course, if that's the case.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 pmGood point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
But why not wait until you can make the case against a US citizen, before exposing all that highly sensitive intel to discovery.
...or if you just charge the Americans, you don't have to share that intel with Russians who will never stand trial.
You don't have to worry about US lawyers sharing the discovery evidence with Russian lawyers.
There's only one American who is not indictable & it's unlikely that he acted alone.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:07 pmOk, now we're onto something. You are absolutely right about the significance of exposing all of this intel. I think Robert Mueller is also aware of this risk. So what does it tell you that he is clearly willing to accept the risk here (by "criminalizing" counter-intelligence)? Does the former FBI director just have too much prosecutor DNA, rendering him obtuse as to these concerns? Maybe. None of us knows, of course, but I happen to think it means he believes highly-placed Americans are very much involved in the crimes and he realizes that such Americans are so highly placed that this is as much of a public and political case as one could ever imagine -- a case potentially involving an unindictable person and his family members, which means he needs to build his case in public as much as he can under circumstances where it might hamper his own efforts and many inside forces are actively opposing him. I have to think Mueller is walking on a very tight rope right now. Few could handle the job.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:46 pmYes, of course, if that's the case.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 pmGood point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
But why not wait until you can make the case against a US citizen, before exposing all that highly sensitive intel to discovery.
...or if you just charge the Americans, you don't have to share that intel with Russians who will never stand trial.
You don't have to worry about US lawyers sharing the discovery evidence with Russian lawyers.
US = American, ...except in hockey.jhu72 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:55 pmold salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:46 pmYes, of course, if that's the case.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 pmGood point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
But why not wait until you can make the case against a US citizen, before exposing all that highly sensitive intel to discovery.
...or if you just charge the Americans, you don't have to share that intel with Russians who will never stand trial.
You don't have to worry about US lawyers sharing the discovery evidence with Russian lawyers.
These were American lawyers.
Schiff & Warner talk enough for all 8.dislaxxic wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:33 pmYou really get more ridiculous with every post you throw against the wall to see if it’ll stick. Really un-forkin believable.That evidence should have been shared with the Gang of 8, inside a SCIF, with no note taking.
They could have then convinced the US public that the Russians did it, ...without divulging specifics.
Tell us you don’t remember Mitch McConnells early reactions about Russian meddling.
Honestly, get a clue Randy. Jeebus.
Yes, although "ploy" is an interesting and expositive choice of words when you had so many others from which to choose. I also suspect Mueller hasn't been waiting for the House to turn D, as you suggest, and has simply expected politicians of all stripes to react to his revelations as any red-blooded American would. (Although that was clearly naive, as even patriots like Salty aren't buying any.)old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:44 pmAre you suggesting that the indictments of Russians who will never go to trial is Mueller's only was to get his allegations before the (D) House,Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:07 pmOk, now we're onto something. You are absolutely right about the significance of exposing all of this intel. I think Robert Mueller is also aware of this risk. So what does it tell you that he is clearly willing to accept the risk here (by "criminalizing" counter-intelligence)? Does the former FBI director just have too much prosecutor DNA, rendering him obtuse as to these concerns? Maybe. None of us knows, of course, but I happen to think it means he believes highly-placed Americans are very much involved in the crimes and he realizes that such Americans are so highly placed that this is as much of a public and political case as one could ever imagine -- a case potentially involving an unindictable person and his family members, which means he needs to build his case in public as much as he can under circumstances where it might hamper his own efforts and many inside forces are actively opposing him. I have to think Mueller is walking on a very tight rope right now. Few could handle the job.old salt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:46 pmYes, of course, if that's the case.Chips O'Toole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 pmGood point, but what if Americans were involved? You'd still prosecute them, right? And doing so might require establishing the underlying crime (by non-Americans) before you could establish a conspiracy to commit crimes by Americans? Right? Same page, or no?
But why not wait until you can make the case against a US citizen, before exposing all that highly sensitive intel to discovery.
...or if you just charge the Americans, you don't have to share that intel with Russians who will never stand trial.
You don't have to worry about US lawyers sharing the discovery evidence with Russian lawyers.
& a ploy to build public support for impeachment ?
Right, Mueller is taking advantage of the fact that his target cannot be indicted and therefore he doesn't have to prove anything in court. Got it. The reporting chain is what matters here. Salty, be honest, did you order the Code Red?