Page 123 of 631
Donald Trump is a Traitor
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm
by DocBarrister
If nothing else, Donald Trump has clearly shown that he is a traitor and Putin’s puppet.
Former President Donald Trump praised Putin's aggressive moves against Ukraine as "genius" and "very savvy" in a podcast interview Tuesday.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful," Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.
"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right," Trump continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy... I know him very well. Very, very well."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... BlogHeader
DocBarrister
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:48 pm
by MDlaxfan76
6ftstick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:54 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:26 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:11 pm
I think Nordstream is officially dead, won't be resurrected absent a total withdrawal by Putin, and I'm not holding my breath on that one. Remember, Germany never had a choice once we made clear that we'd sanction any bank that did business with anyone moving that gas through that pipeline. Glad to see them move fast, but they really had no choice. Might well have been coordinated.
You may be over-estimating the fortitude of Germany (& Wall Street) to absorb the consequences.
When the shooting stops, the Germans will be anxious to negotiate a settlement.
The question is the US' resolve, not the Germans.
You're correct, IMO, to wonder about our resolve.
REUTERS—ICIS analysis data for German supply showed that in Dec. 2021 Russian pipeline gas accounted for 32%
Not refuted yet
What will Germanys resolve be when they're cold and in the dark in a couple weeks.
I guess that, like most topics, you haven't really been paying attention, whether to news beyond your right wing feed or even to the discussions on here.
Russia might well cut off all gas to Germany, but that'll hurt them much worse than Germany or Germans as other sources will be rushed to Germany. But it will hurt.
But the point isn't that there's going to be a big crunch on energy costs, it's that this is entirely controlled by the US, not Germany as they really have no choice, given the sanctions that have been discussed. No business or bank will be able to do business with any entities proscribed by the US. Period.
We did this in tightening the screws on banks doing business with Iran and choked them hard as a result, which was the predicate to getting them to the table for the deal. Banks initially had trouble knowing what was actually happening, but they built up the mechanisms to track everything...beats billion dollar fines else cut off entirely from markets. Those mechanisms now exist and the US has been clear that they're willing to use the same process to enforce compliance.
So, if we want to constrict all oil and gas sales out of Russia, that's in our control. It'll be a later step, we haven't gone there yet.
But we're rolling these out on two Russian banks, and the Russian access to raising capital on the international markets. They're going to shortly roll out such on various Russian elites. It's important to realize that the Russian elites work very hard to get most of their riches outside of Russia's direct reach, just in case their positions deteriorate there...they need that access.
But that's a minimum step.
Re: Donald Trump is a Traitor
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:49 pm
by MDlaxfan76
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm
If nothing else, Donald Trump has clearly shown that he is a traitor and Putin’s puppet.
Former President Donald Trump praised Putin's aggressive moves against Ukraine as "genius" and "very savvy" in a podcast interview Tuesday.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful," Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.
"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right," Trump continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy... I know him very well. Very, very well."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... BlogHeader
DocBarrister
He's right that Putin is "savvy"...but you're right that he's a despicable traitor to the US and and enemy of world international order and the rule of law.
Just gross.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:51 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:47 pm
but your and my opinion don't matter a hill of beans.
It's whatever Putin chooses to pretend he believes.
You guys need to think like Putin. That's why we're in this mess.
What do you think I've been doing ?
What are Putin's territorial ambitions ? imho -- to recover control over as much of the former USSR as he can.
I'll go out on a limb & predict that Putin would be satisfied with a puppet regime in Kyiv, like he has in Minsk, & to then bring Russia, Belarus & Ukraine together via the Union process already in place. He might eventually try to unite them in a Greater Russian Confederation. He could name it Rodina.
imho -- no NATO nations are at risk, nor are Finland & Sweden. Georgia may be a target again in the future, if they push for NATO membership again.
Now turn over the RISK game board.
Re: Donald Trump is a Traitor
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:53 pm
by CU88
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:49 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm
If nothing else, Donald Trump has clearly shown that he is a traitor and Putin’s puppet.
Former President Donald Trump praised Putin's aggressive moves against Ukraine as "genius" and "very savvy" in a podcast interview Tuesday.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful," Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.
"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right," Trump continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy... I know him very well. Very, very well."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... BlogHeader
DocBarrister
He's right that Putin is "savvy"...but you're right that he's a despicable traitor to the US and and enemy of world international order and the rule of law.
Just gross.
How is this idiot not getting crushed for this statement? We know it will be rebroadcast in all Russian controlled media outlets. Just DEPLORABLE.
Former president Donald Trump on Tuesday hailed Russian President Vladimir Putin’s move to recognize two breakaway regions of Ukraine and deploy troops into the rebel-held territory as “genius.”
In an interview with the conservative “Clay Travis and Buck Sexton” radio show, Trump said he was impressed by news of Putin’s actions.
“Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said. “So Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’”
Trump said Putin will now “go in” to Ukraine “and be a peacekeeper.”
“That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:54 pm
by jhu72
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:54 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:51 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:47 pm
but your and my opinion don't matter a hill of beans.
It's whatever Putin chooses to pretend he believes.
You guys need to think like Putin. That's why we're in this mess.
What do you think I've been doing ?
What are Putin's territorial ambitions ? imho -- to recover control over as much of the former USSR as he can.
I'll go out on a limb & predict that Putin would be satisfied with a puppet regime in Kyiv, like he has in Minsk, & to then bring Russia, Belarus & Ukraine together via the Union process already in place. He might eventually try to unite them in a Greater Russian Confederation. He could name it Rodina.
imho -- no NATO nations are at risk, nor are Finland & Sweden. Georgia may be a target again in the future, if they push for NATO membership again.
Now turn over the RISK game board.
And that means we may as well give up on China deciding it wants to annex not just Taiwan but any country with ancient Chinese at its root.
Authoritarians should be able to just decide to do what they want. We should just shut up.
Re: Donald Trump is a Traitor
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:55 pm
by youthathletics
CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:53 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:49 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm
If nothing else, Donald Trump has clearly shown that he is a traitor and Putin’s puppet.
Former President Donald Trump praised Putin's aggressive moves against Ukraine as "genius" and "very savvy" in a podcast interview Tuesday.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful," Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.
"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right," Trump continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy... I know him very well. Very, very well."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... BlogHeader
DocBarrister
He's right that Putin is "savvy"...but you're right that he's a despicable traitor to the US and and enemy of world international order and the rule of law.
Just gross.
How is this idiot not getting crushed for this statement? We know it will be rebroadcast in all Russian controlled media outlets. Just DEPLORABLE.
Former president Donald Trump on Tuesday hailed Russian President Vladimir Putin’s move to recognize two breakaway regions of Ukraine and deploy troops into the rebel-held territory as “genius.”
In an interview with the conservative “Clay Travis and Buck Sexton” radio show, Trump said he was impressed by news of Putin’s actions.
“Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said. “So Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’”
Trump said Putin will now “go in” to Ukraine “and be a peacekeeper.”
“That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”
#QFP
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:03 pm
by seacoaster
What does #QFP mean?
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:05 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:54 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:51 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:47 pm
but your and my opinion don't matter a hill of beans.
It's whatever Putin chooses to pretend he believes.
You guys need to think like Putin. That's why we're in this mess.
What do you think I've been doing ?
What are Putin's territorial ambitions ? imho -- to recover control over as much of the former USSR as he can.
I'll go out on a limb & predict that Putin would be satisfied with a puppet regime in Kyiv, like he has in Minsk, & to then bring Russia, Belarus & Ukraine together via the Union process already in place. He might eventually try to unite them in a Greater Russian Confederation. He could name it Rodina.
imho -- no NATO nations are at risk, nor are Finland & Sweden. Georgia may be a target again in the future, if they push for NATO membership again.
Now turn over the RISK game board.
And that means we may as well give up on China deciding it wants to annex not just Taiwan but any country with ancient Chinese at its root.
Authoritarians should be able to just decide to do what they want. We should just shut up.
...ancient China ? Putin's just going back to 1991 when the USSR came apart.
Re: Donald Trump is a Traitor
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:12 pm
by old salt
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:55 pm
CU88 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:53 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:49 pm
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm
If nothing else, Donald Trump has clearly shown that he is a traitor and Putin’s puppet.
Former President Donald Trump praised Putin's aggressive moves against Ukraine as "genius" and "very savvy" in a podcast interview Tuesday.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful," Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.
"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right," Trump continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy... I know him very well. Very, very well."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... BlogHeader
DocBarrister
He's right that Putin is "savvy"...but you're right that he's a despicable traitor to the US and and enemy of world international order and the rule of law.
Just gross.
How is this idiot not getting crushed for this statement? We know it will be rebroadcast in all Russian controlled media outlets. Just DEPLORABLE.
Former president Donald Trump on Tuesday hailed Russian President Vladimir Putin’s move to recognize two breakaway regions of Ukraine and deploy troops into the rebel-held territory as “genius.”
In an interview with the conservative “Clay Travis and Buck Sexton” radio show, Trump said he was impressed by news of Putin’s actions.
“Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful,” Trump said. “So Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent,’ a large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that?’”
Trump said Putin will now “go in” to Ukraine “and be a peacekeeper.”
“That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”
#QFP
Heads exploding on MSNBC & CNN sets. Max Boot just jumped out of a window.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:15 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:05 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:54 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:51 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:50 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:47 pm
but your and my opinion don't matter a hill of beans.
It's whatever Putin chooses to pretend he believes.
You guys need to think like Putin. That's why we're in this mess.
What do you think I've been doing ?
What are Putin's territorial ambitions ? imho -- to recover control over as much of the former USSR as he can.
I'll go out on a limb & predict that Putin would be satisfied with a puppet regime in Kyiv, like he has in Minsk, & to then bring Russia, Belarus & Ukraine together via the Union process already in place. He might eventually try to unite them in a Greater Russian Confederation. He could name it Rodina.
imho -- no NATO nations are at risk, nor are Finland & Sweden. Georgia may be a target again in the future, if they push for NATO membership again.
Now turn over the RISK game board.
And that means we may as well give up on China deciding it wants to annex not just Taiwan but any country with ancient Chinese at its root.
Authoritarians should be able to just decide to do what they want. We should just shut up.
...ancient China ? Putin's just going back to 1991 when the USSR came apart.
nope, he went further back...you aren't, but he is. And does it matter what year Russia committed to assurances that various independent states would be sovereign and be permanently recognized as such?
Not if they simply don't matter to the authoritarian.
And yeah, China will talk about the creation of Taiwan and their right to control them, simply because they speak Chinese...and the Chinese see their language and culture in much of Asia, including Japan, Korea, etc. All from the same root.
That said, China's current goal is "unification" which includes the elimination of any dissenting, non-unified parties. Hong Kong, Taiwan are simply the first expansions beyond China's own borders.
Xi wants to accomplish this in his tenure, but the longer term ambitions go further, though essentially vassal states beyond...pretty darn similar to Russia's ambitions, but with far more inherent strength.
Putin is actually threatened by democracy, Xi has a much firmer grip...so Putin has much more impatience.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:19 pm
by cradleandshoot
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:48 pm
6ftstick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:54 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:26 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:11 pm
I think Nordstream is officially dead, won't be resurrected absent a total withdrawal by Putin, and I'm not holding my breath on that one. Remember, Germany never had a choice once we made clear that we'd sanction any bank that did business with anyone moving that gas through that pipeline. Glad to see them move fast, but they really had no choice. Might well have been coordinated.
You may be over-estimating the fortitude of Germany (& Wall Street) to absorb the consequences.
When the shooting stops, the Germans will be anxious to negotiate a settlement.
The question is the US' resolve, not the Germans.
You're correct, IMO, to wonder about our resolve.
REUTERS—ICIS analysis data for German supply showed that in Dec. 2021 Russian pipeline gas accounted for 32%
Not refuted yet
What will Germanys resolve be when they're cold and in the dark in a couple weeks.
I guess that, like most topics, you haven't really been paying attention, whether to news beyond your right wing feed or even to the discussions on here.
Russia might well cut off all gas to Germany, but that'll hurt them much worse than Germany or Germans as other sources will be rushed to Germany. But it will hurt.
But the point isn't that there's going to be a big crunch on energy costs, it's that this is entirely controlled by the US, not Germany as they really have no choice, given the sanctions that have been discussed. No business or bank will be able to do business with any entities proscribed by the US. Period.
We did this in tightening the screws on banks doing business with Iran and choked them hard as a result, which was the predicate to getting them to the table for the deal. Banks initially had trouble knowing what was actually happening, but they built up the mechanisms to track everything...beats billion dollar fines else cut off entirely from markets. Those mechanisms now exist and the US has been clear that they're willing to use the same process to enforce compliance.
So, if we want to constrict all oil and gas sales out of Russia, that's in our control. It'll be a later step, we haven't gone there yet.
But we're rolling these out on two Russian banks, and the Russian access to raising capital on the international markets. They're going to shortly roll out such on various Russian elites. It's important to realize that the Russian elites work very hard to get most of their riches outside of Russia's direct reach, just in case their positions deteriorate there...they need that access.
But that's a minimum step.
Reading comprehension there MD.. when was the last time you read anything from 6 foot? He told you from the get go he stopped reading this forum. When he came back to visit he read the same old same old same old from the same people. You choose to give him your standard faux Republican blather. Way to go there hero. I would love to have 6 foot start posting again. Why would he want to? The only thing he will read is the same old same old same old same old. Maybe he would be mocked and ridiculed by your FLP friends on this forum. When I think of a person who is actually a lifelong Republican.. Mr 6 foot comes to mind in my book.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:22 pm
by MDlaxfan76
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:19 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:48 pm
6ftstick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:54 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:26 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:17 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:11 pm
I think Nordstream is officially dead, won't be resurrected absent a total withdrawal by Putin, and I'm not holding my breath on that one. Remember, Germany never had a choice once we made clear that we'd sanction any bank that did business with anyone moving that gas through that pipeline. Glad to see them move fast, but they really had no choice. Might well have been coordinated.
You may be over-estimating the fortitude of Germany (& Wall Street) to absorb the consequences.
When the shooting stops, the Germans will be anxious to negotiate a settlement.
The question is the US' resolve, not the Germans.
You're correct, IMO, to wonder about our resolve.
REUTERS—ICIS analysis data for German supply showed that in Dec. 2021 Russian pipeline gas accounted for 32%
Not refuted yet
What will Germanys resolve be when they're cold and in the dark in a couple weeks.
I guess that, like most topics, you haven't really been paying attention, whether to news beyond your right wing feed or even to the discussions on here.
Russia might well cut off all gas to Germany, but that'll hurt them much worse than Germany or Germans as other sources will be rushed to Germany. But it will hurt.
But the point isn't that there's going to be a big crunch on energy costs, it's that this is entirely controlled by the US, not Germany as they really have no choice, given the sanctions that have been discussed. No business or bank will be able to do business with any entities proscribed by the US. Period.
We did this in tightening the screws on banks doing business with Iran and choked them hard as a result, which was the predicate to getting them to the table for the deal. Banks initially had trouble knowing what was actually happening, but they built up the mechanisms to track everything...beats billion dollar fines else cut off entirely from markets. Those mechanisms now exist and the US has been clear that they're willing to use the same process to enforce compliance.
So, if we want to constrict all oil and gas sales out of Russia, that's in our control. It'll be a later step, we haven't gone there yet.
But we're rolling these out on two Russian banks, and the Russian access to raising capital on the international markets. They're going to shortly roll out such on various Russian elites. It's important to realize that the Russian elites work very hard to get most of their riches outside of Russia's direct reach, just in case their positions deteriorate there...they need that access.
But that's a minimum step.
Reading comprehension there MD.. when was the last time you read anything from 6 foot? He told you from the get go he stopped reading this forum. When he came back to visit he read the same old same old same old from the same people. You choose to give him your standard faux Republican blather. Way to go there hero. I would love to have 6 foot start posting again. Why would he want to? The only thing he will read is the same old same old same old same old. Maybe he would be mocked and ridiculed by your FLP friends on this forum. When I think of a person who is actually a lifelong Republican.. Mr 6 foot comes to mind in my book.
I don't remember how old 6ft is, but he'd have to pretty old to have voted for more Republicans for national office than me.
But are you actually trying to add something substantive discourse or do you just want to attack me personally?
Salty and I have been having a respectful discussion. I find his thoughts interesting in this arena. I don't agree with every aspect, but I know he's thought about the topic a ton. Substantive.
You're free to add something substantive, but how about dropping the ad hominem stuff?
Re: Donald Trump is a Traitor
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:24 pm
by Brooklyn
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:47 pm
If nothing else, Donald Trump has clearly shown that he is a
traitor and Putin’s puppet.
Former President Donald Trump praised Putin's aggressive moves against Ukraine as "genius" and "very savvy" in a podcast interview Tuesday.
"I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius.' Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful," Trump told conservative podcaster Buck Sexton.
"I said, 'How smart is that?' And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force... We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right," Trump continued. "Here’s a guy who’s very savvy... I know him very well. Very, very well."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live ... BlogHeader
DocBarrister
"traitor" "puppet"
Kindly explain.
Was Putin Bush's puppet when he stood by and did nothing about the criminal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Bush killed thousands of Americans and murdered over one million people in the Middle East while stealing trillions of US dollars. Does that make American right wingers who supported him traitors and puppets as well?
Is Putin being "savvy" by having troops at the border? Well, it does save Russians inside of Donetsk and Lubansk from getting slaughtered by the Ukrainians. If it had been me, I would have allowed the people to take a plebiscite. If they chose to become a part of Russia, then, fine. Bring them on. This would have promoted diplomacy, self determination, and order.
War isn't necessary. But nobody should try to deny the people of Donbas the right of self determination. Let them decide what their fate is or should be.
As for us, stay the hell out of there. No more involvement with NATO. No sanctions. We have enough problems here at home. Let's solve them, now. Not later.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:27 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:15 pm
nope, he went further back...you aren't, but he is. And does it matter what year Russia committed to assurances that various independent states would be sovereign and be permanently recognized as such?
I read the entire transcript of his speech yesterday & his entire op-ed of July 21.
Lengthy, detailed, slow going. Lots of historical context, but no specific territorial aspirations stated or implied.
His most specific grievances are with the 1991 dissolution of the USSR & NATO expansion.
What do you predict that he will try beyond controlling Ukraine & uniting with Belarus ?
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:29 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:27 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:15 pm
nope, he went further back...you aren't, but he is. And does it matter what year Russia committed to assurances that various independent states would be sovereign and be permanently recognized as such?
I read the entire transcript of his speech yesterday & his entire op-ed of July 21.
Lengthy, detailed, slow going. Lots of historical context, but no specific territorial aspirations stated or implied.
His most specific grievances are with the 1991 dissolution of the USSR & NATO expansion.
What do you predict that he will try beyond controlling Ukraine & uniting with Belarus ?
And what do you think China's aspirations are beyond Hong Kong and Taiwan?
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:30 pm
by old salt
seacoaster wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:03 pm
What does #QFP mean?
Quoted For Posterity -- this qoute will likely be revisited, ...again, & again, & ....
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:37 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:29 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:27 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:15 pm
nope, he went further back...you aren't, but he is. And does it matter what year Russia committed to assurances that various independent states would be sovereign and be permanently recognized as such?
I read the entire transcript of his speech yesterday & his entire op-ed of July 21.
Lengthy, detailed, slow going. Lots of historical context, but no specific territorial aspirations stated or implied.
His most specific grievances are with the 1991 dissolution of the USSR & NATO expansion.
What do you predict that he will try beyond controlling Ukraine & uniting with Belarus ?
And what do you think China's aspirations are beyond Hong Kong and Taiwan?
In terms of territory -- the disputed islands in the S & E China seas, expanding the new island military bases they've dredged, declaring the S China Sea shipping lanes within their territorial waters & exercising control over those critical sea lanes.
Beyond that -- coercive global economic imperialism.
Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:39 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:27 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:15 pm
nope, he went further back...you aren't, but he is. And does it matter what year Russia committed to assurances that various independent states would be sovereign and be permanently recognized as such?
I read the entire transcript of his speech yesterday & his entire op-ed of July 21.
Lengthy, detailed, slow going. Lots of historical context, but no specific territorial aspirations stated or implied.
His most specific grievances are with the 1991 dissolution of the USSR & NATO expansion.
What do you predict that he will try beyond controlling Ukraine & uniting with Belarus ?
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/67828
I read that quite differently from your summary.
Lots of historical discourse, justifying the reclaiming of what was "historically Russia" which he is very broad in describing.
He differentiates this "historically Russia" from specifically during the Soviet Union, blames the Bolsheviks, Lenin, Stalin, all making "mistakes" and then of course the "mistakes" in the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
But the claim, both explicit and implicit, is that Russia has a right to any and all of the territories that are "historically Russian", which is in reality anything he says it is. Including whatever the prior reach of the Russian Empire was, at a minimum. There's really no limit to what could be claimed under this ideology as it's entirely subject to Orwellian propaganda.
F the international order and rule of law.
