All things CoronaVirus

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.

How many of your friends and family members have died of the Chinese Corona Virus?

0 people
44
64%
1 person.
10
14%
2 people.
3
4%
3 people.
5
7%
More.
7
10%
 
Total votes: 69

JoeMauer89
Posts: 2009
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by JoeMauer89 »

old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:52 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:46 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:38 pm And you're parroting the same BS as if you're unaware of your bedfellows' wild, unsubstantiated accusations.
Sheesh ! My thoughts are my own. Any reasonable person would ask the same questions I'm asking.
And for some reason, you remain on attack mode, even when I respond thoughtfully and respectfully to every darn question.

Questions are fine, it's the implied conclusions that you draw where we seem to actually disagree.

Back to your "thoughts"...same logic you apply to every Trumpist issue, you think totally independently, uninfluenced by Der Leader and his various acolytes, the media, whatever information stream you're in...

None of us have truly independent "thoughts", we're all influenced by lots of other's "thoughts". You too.
I have implied no conclusions.

For crying out loud -- I've been saying we need greater certainty. You have lost the ability to objectively listen.
He never had that ability! :lol: :lol: Sorry, I couldn't resist.
+1

JoeMauer89!
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:40 pm
classic... :lol:
Yes! I saw it on TV!
Roku after the fact but same, just maybe two months ago.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:46 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:38 pm And you're parroting the same BS as if you're unaware of your bedfellows' wild, unsubstantiated accusations.
Sheesh ! My thoughts are my own. Any reasonable person would ask the same questions I'm asking.
And for some reason, you remain on attack mode, even when I respond thoughtfully and respectfully to every darn question.

Questions are fine, it's the implied conclusions that you draw where we seem to actually disagree.

Back to your "thoughts"...same logic you apply to every Trumpist issue, you think totally independently, uninfluenced by Der Leader and his various acolytes, the media, whatever information stream you're in...

None of us have truly independent "thoughts", we're all influenced by lots of other's "thoughts". You too.
It's more about acknowledging the certainty with whch it was first presented which is a common technique I've observed with this one and then some light modification of language and small backtracking while getting hairs up and defensive ending with victimhood.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Farfromgeneva »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27086
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

JoeMauer89 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:13 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:52 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:46 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:38 pm And you're parroting the same BS as if you're unaware of your bedfellows' wild, unsubstantiated accusations.
Sheesh ! My thoughts are my own. Any reasonable person would ask the same questions I'm asking.
And for some reason, you remain on attack mode, even when I respond thoughtfully and respectfully to every darn question.

Questions are fine, it's the implied conclusions that you draw where we seem to actually disagree.

Back to your "thoughts"...same logic you apply to every Trumpist issue, you think totally independently, uninfluenced by Der Leader and his various acolytes, the media, whatever information stream you're in...

None of us have truly independent "thoughts", we're all influenced by lots of other's "thoughts". You too.
I have implied no conclusions.

For crying out loud -- I've been saying we need greater certainty. You have lost the ability to objectively listen.
He never had that ability! :lol: :lol: Sorry, I couldn't resist.
+1

JoeMauer89!
:D no worries, your last 3 posts were all directed at taking a snipe at me, but hey, you limited this one to just two laughing emojis, not 4 or 5, and no shouting all caps...And a whole string of posts talking lax and not directed at me..That's "trying". Thanks.
JoeMauer89
Posts: 2009
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:39 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by JoeMauer89 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:55 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:13 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:52 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:46 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:38 pm And you're parroting the same BS as if you're unaware of your bedfellows' wild, unsubstantiated accusations.
Sheesh ! My thoughts are my own. Any reasonable person would ask the same questions I'm asking.
And for some reason, you remain on attack mode, even when I respond thoughtfully and respectfully to every darn question.

Questions are fine, it's the implied conclusions that you draw where we seem to actually disagree.

Back to your "thoughts"...same logic you apply to every Trumpist issue, you think totally independently, uninfluenced by Der Leader and his various acolytes, the media, whatever information stream you're in...

None of us have truly independent "thoughts", we're all influenced by lots of other's "thoughts". You too.
I have implied no conclusions.

For crying out loud -- I've been saying we need greater certainty. You have lost the ability to objectively listen.
He never had that ability! :lol: :lol: Sorry, I couldn't resist.
+1

JoeMauer89!
:D no worries, your last 3 posts were all directed at taking a snipe at me, but hey, you limited this one to just two laughing emojis, not 4 or 5, and no shouting all caps...And a whole string of posts talking lax and not directed at me..That's "trying". Thanks.
MD,

I told you I would. I'm quite capable of civility. I'll pick and choose my battles moving forward.

JoeMauer89!
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23816
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Couple of quotes from one of my two favorite authors that can at times fit the behavior on these boards well:

You know what charm is: a way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clear question.

I used to advertise my loyalty and I don't believe there is a single person I loved that I didn't eventually betray
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
User avatar
MDlaxfan76
Posts: 27086
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

JoeMauer89 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:59 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:55 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:13 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:52 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:46 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:41 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 2:38 pm And you're parroting the same BS as if you're unaware of your bedfellows' wild, unsubstantiated accusations.
Sheesh ! My thoughts are my own. Any reasonable person would ask the same questions I'm asking.
And for some reason, you remain on attack mode, even when I respond thoughtfully and respectfully to every darn question.

Questions are fine, it's the implied conclusions that you draw where we seem to actually disagree.

Back to your "thoughts"...same logic you apply to every Trumpist issue, you think totally independently, uninfluenced by Der Leader and his various acolytes, the media, whatever information stream you're in...

None of us have truly independent "thoughts", we're all influenced by lots of other's "thoughts". You too.
I have implied no conclusions.

For crying out loud -- I've been saying we need greater certainty. You have lost the ability to objectively listen.
He never had that ability! :lol: :lol: Sorry, I couldn't resist.
+1

JoeMauer89!
:D no worries, your last 3 posts were all directed at taking a snipe at me, but hey, you limited this one to just two laughing emojis, not 4 or 5, and no shouting all caps...And a whole string of posts talking lax and not directed at me..That's "trying". Thanks.
MD,

I told you I would. I'm quite capable of civility. I'll pick and choose my battles moving forward.

JoeMauer89!
That's exactly what I was appreciating. No battle here.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18819
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by old salt »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:01 pm But you have repeatedly implied that there's some level of "certainty" of lab developed...
No I have not. You're hearing voices again. I just have not ruled out that possibility.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18819
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by old salt »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
jhu72
Posts: 14456
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by jhu72 »

tech37 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 6:43 am
jhu72 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 10:26 am
seacoaster wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:41 am
tech37 wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:08 am Apologies for pay wall... if interested, maybe someone would post the article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/scie ... tists.html
I don't have access to the Times right now, but here is the Post's version:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... pdates-us/

"Americans received welcome news on Thursday that the federal government was significantly relaxing its recommendations on mask use for vaccinated individuals, signaling the end of the coronavirus pandemic is in sight. But a group of 18 scientists from leading international research institutions is now calling for a “proper investigation” into the origins of the pandemic — and the possibility of a laboratory incident triggering the global health crisis.

In a letter published in the latest edition of the journal Science, the researchers say the findings of a joint investigation by the World Health Organization and China released in March are not sufficiently conclusive. That study, based on data collected by Chinese researchers, found that it was “extremely unlikely” that the virus leaked from a lab. But the 18 scientists say that the possibility must be taken seriously.

The origins of the coronavirus have been hotly contested, with the former Trump administration speculating without evidence that the virus leaked from a Chinese lab; China has also spread baseless claims that the U.S. Army created the virus."

Here is the letter in Science Magazine:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6543/694.1

"On 30 December 2019, the Program for Monitoring Emerging Diseases notified the world about a pneumonia of unknown cause in Wuhan, China (1). Since then, scientists have made remarkable progress in understanding the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), its transmission, pathogenesis, and mitigation by vaccines, therapeutics, and non-pharmaceutical interventions. Yet more investigation is still needed to determine the origin of the pandemic. Theories of accidental release from a lab and zoonotic spillover both remain viable. Knowing how COVID-19 emerged is critical for informing global strategies to mitigate the risk of future outbreaks.

In May 2020, the World Health Assembly requested that the World Health Organization (WHO) director-general work closely with partners to determine the origins of SARS-CoV-2 (2). In November, the Terms of Reference for a China–WHO joint study were released (3). The information, data, and samples for the study's first phase were collected and summarized by the Chinese half of the team; the rest of the team built on this analysis. Although there were no findings in clear support of either a natural spillover or a lab accident, the team assessed a zoonotic spillover from an intermediate host as “likely to very likely,” and a laboratory incident as “extremely unlikely” [(4), p. 9]. Furthermore, the two theories were not given balanced consideration. Only 4 of the 313 pages of the report and its annexes addressed the possibility of a laboratory accident (4). Notably, WHO Director-General Tedros Ghebreyesus commented that the report's consideration of evidence supporting a laboratory accident was insufficient and offered to provide additional resources to fully evaluate the possibility (5).

As scientists with relevant expertise, we agree with the WHO director-general (5), the United States and 13 other countries (6), and the European Union (7) that greater clarity about the origins of this pandemic is necessary and feasible to achieve. We must take hypotheses about both natural and laboratory spillovers seriously until we have sufficient data. A proper investigation should be transparent, objective, data-driven, inclusive of broad expertise, subject to independent oversight, and responsibly managed to minimize the impact of conflicts of interest. Public health agencies and research laboratories alike need to open their records to the public. Investigators should document the veracity and provenance of data from which analyses are conducted and conclusions drawn, so that analyses are reproducible by independent experts."
... so "scientifically" nothing has changed since the WHO report. No more evidence one way or the other. The only thing that I see that has changed, is "politically", a group of scientists have amplified a point the WHO director made VERBALLY at the time of the release of the WHO report (which was reported by print media at the time of the release of the WHO report).

It is much clearer when reputable media report the story, than a politically motivated rage like the Washington Examiner.
This is a completely specious argument. "Scientifically", nothing needs to "change." The science is complete and the evidence has been presented causing more and more people in the scientific community to admit the plausibility of a lab leak hypothesis based on that evidence... Redfield, the WHO director, and now this group of 18 scientists reported on by NYT, to name a few. Once more in the scientific community overcome the fear of political reprisal and/or politically motivated discredit, we will get closer to truth re Covid-19 origin. That is the "change" that is needed, and IMO, will eventually happen.
... backpedaling hey. :lol: :lol:
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Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18819
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Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point. I told you once already :
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:51 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:44 pmWhat evidence do you have that it was developed and released?....you imply that being developed and released is certain....Not what Xi told your guy.
Too much of a coincidence that it broke out in Wuhan. Too far from the bat caves.
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
Before your diversion, my original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Last edited by old salt on Wed May 19, 2021 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18819
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Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:16 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
My original post was about the potential dangers from gain of function research. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic transmission. That is your diversionary misrepresentation on my position. I've said all along that we need greater certainty on the origins.
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
This was my original post before your diversionary thread hijack quibbling over terminology.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?
The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.
Last edited by old salt on Wed May 19, 2021 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:16 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
My original post was about the potential dangers from gain of function research. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic transmission. That is your diversionary misrepresentation on my position. I've said all along that we need greater certainty on the origins.
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
Stop lying. You said we need more certainty that is was developed and released. Gave you chances to change your wording and you never did until now. “More certain on the origins” is not the same as “more certain that it was developed and released”. You know better.
“I wish you would!”
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old salt
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Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:30 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:16 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
My original post was about the potential dangers from gain of function research. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic transmission. That is your diversionary misrepresentation on my position. I've said all along that we need greater certainty on the origins.
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
Stop lying. You said we need more certainty that is was developed and released. Gave you chances to change your wording and you never did until now. “More certain on the origins” is not the same as “more certain that it was developed and released”. You know better.
You're lying by misrepresenting what I said. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic origin & transmission. Unlike you. I did not close my mind to other possibilities & said several times that we need more certainty. "origins" = "developed" / "released" = "transmission". The same thing said with different words. No need to change my wording.
This was my first post before your diversionary thread hijack.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?
The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:36 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:30 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:16 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
My original post was about the potential dangers from gain of function research. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic transmission. That is your diversionary misrepresentation on my position. I've said all along that we need greater certainty on the origins.
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
Stop lying. You said we need more certainty that is was developed and released. Gave you chances to change your wording and you never did until now. “More certain on the origins” is not the same as “more certain that it was developed and released”. You know better.
You're lying by misrepresenting what I said. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic origin & transmission. Unlike you. I did not close my mind to other possibilities & said several times that we need more certainty. "origins" = "developed" / "released" = "transmission". The same thing said with different words. No need to change my wording.
This was my first post before your diversionary thread hijack.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?
The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.
Un huh. No credibility.
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18819
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:42 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:36 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:30 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:16 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
My original post was about the potential dangers from gain of function research. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic transmission. That is your diversionary misrepresentation on my position. I've said all along that we need greater certainty on the origins.
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
Stop lying. You said we need more certainty that is was developed and released. Gave you chances to change your wording and you never did until now. “More certain on the origins” is not the same as “more certain that it was developed and released”. You know better.
You're lying by misrepresenting what I said. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic origin & transmission. Unlike you. I did not close my mind to other possibilities & said several times that we need more certainty. "origins" = "developed" / "released" = "transmission". The same thing said with different words. No need to change my wording.
This was my first post before your diversionary thread hijack.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?
The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.
Un huh. No credibility.
That's right. You have no credibility. Rather than engage in honest discussion, you misstate another's position to hijack the discussion.
That's your tactic.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34082
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All things CoronaVirus

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:47 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:42 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:36 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:30 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:26 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:16 am
old salt wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:08 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 am
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 11:03 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:34 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:04 pm
old salt wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm Back to my original point.

https://mbio.asm.org/content/11/4/e01868-20

...it is concerning to us that a bad actor may see the way COVID-19 has been (mis)handled as evidence that a bioweapon can be used to inflict a great degree of damage.
Perfectly valid concern.

Next step, what to actually do about it?

Stop research?
Withdraw international oversight?

If one says yes to either or both, then we're back to that anti-science, anti-globalist problem...bury the head in the sand and nothing bad will happen.
It's like he thinks we can control the entire world and what research they perform. Makes less than zero sense.
You are both telling me what I think again & speaking on my behalf. Don't bother. Thanks but No Thanks.

note the pre-covid publication date : https://thebulletin.org/2019/08/is-ther ... pathogens/
You can find articles older than that. What does that have to do with your claim that Covid-19 was developed and released, for certain?
That's not the point I was making. It could have been developed in a bat & released by transmission via another mammal. Stop quibbling about wording to deflect from my point.

My original post was about the dangers of potential unintended consequences from gain of function research, which that article discussed even before covid 19 existed.
Your original post was the we needed “more certainty” that it was developed and released from a lab. Like I said, I believe I posted the first gain of function article maybe a year ago. Seems like the probability is low but nothing is impossible. A couple of your acolytes suggested China released it to hurt the USA...that’s the crew you run with.
My original post was about the potential dangers from gain of function research. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic transmission. That is your diversionary misrepresentation on my position. I've said all along that we need greater certainty on the origins.
old salt wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:00 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:56 pm
Who made the determination with certainty that “covid was developed and released”?
The bats did it in their cave lab.
Stop lying. You said we need more certainty that is was developed and released. Gave you chances to change your wording and you never did until now. “More certain on the origins” is not the same as “more certain that it was developed and released”. You know better.
You're lying by misrepresenting what I said. I never dismissed the possibility of zoonotic origin & transmission. Unlike you. I did not close my mind to other possibilities & said several times that we need more certainty. "origins" = "developed" / "released" = "transmission". The same thing said with different words. No need to change my wording.
This was my first post before your diversionary thread hijack.
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?
The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.
Un huh. No credibility.
That's right. You have no credibility. Rather than engage in honest discussion, you misstate another's position to hijack the discussion.
That's your tactic.
😂
“I wish you would!”
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