LaxPower Back-Up Stick

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:40 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:17 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:12 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:08 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 9:48 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 9:42 pm https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20 ... n-approval

Joe was so wrong it’s hard to believe he isn’t being raked over the coals like Trump!

you're better than this, tld.
joe, throughout the entire 4th quarter (while the election was still in doubt... see what i did there?) was.... wrong.

after that? he was right (and ahold of his faculties?).

carry on.

It’s a joke. I don’t care what old Joe says. He could be a hub cap for all I care.

i know. but not leaving a hanging chad....

I am an excess death guy.

finally. one convert.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:47 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:40 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:17 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:12 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:08 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 9:48 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 9:42 pm https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20 ... n-approval

Joe was so wrong it’s hard to believe he isn’t being raked over the coals like Trump!

you're better than this, tld.
joe, throughout the entire 4th quarter (while the election was still in doubt... see what i did there?) was.... wrong.

after that? he was right (and ahold of his faculties?).

carry on.

It’s a joke. I don’t care what old Joe says. He could be a hub cap for all I care.

i know. but not leaving a hanging chad....

I am an excess death guy.

finally. one convert.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... hs-tracker

Beats Twitter

old salt wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:55 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?

The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:08 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is kind of "neat to go back and read through"...lemme just point out that Salty just made the argument that the research, if "gain of function", should not be allowed...because it could be for bio-weapon research...by the Chinese...

This is exactly the sort of argument I was warning and pushing back against back then, which others denied applied to any of our fellow FL posters, that this was being used to politically blame an "Other" country (China) and any thing involving international oversight (WHO), and to promote the anti-scientific bias of many in our country.

This research, carefully executed and with active international oversight and transparency, is tremendously important for the prevention of zoonotic pandemics...I noted at the time that we have had many zoonotic pandemics in human history (preceding any such research), but the risk of such pandemics has increased dramatically with human density and mobility.

So, the withdrawal of US engagement and the defunding of international oversight, is exactly the opposite direction we should have been going these past years, and year, and going forward. Alienating others in the international community on this topic is ridiculously stupid. Yet, that's exactly the point of the Trumpist, nativist, anti-science conspiracy mongers...it's all about manipulating domestic voters for a degenerate liar's authoritarian aims...and lots and lots of people line up to join in, amplify...whether that's their conscious intent or not.

I'm 100% in favor of the scientists who actually understand the research, its risks and misapplications, as well as the benefits...to focus on the safety and oversight necessary. Debate away experts, work hard on making sure any such is done safely...but those coming at this as an opportunity to "blame" an "Other" I reject 100% as well.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:34 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:08 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is kind of "neat to go back and read through"...lemme just point out that Salty just made the argument that the research, if "gain of function", should not be allowed...because it could be for bio-weapon research...by the Chinese...

This is exactly the sort of argument I was warning and pushing back against back then, which others denied applied to any of our fellow FL posters, that this was being used to politically blame an "Other" country (China) and any thing involving international oversight (WHO), and to promote the anti-scientific bias of many in our country.

This research, carefully executed and with active international oversight and transparency, is tremendously important for the prevention of zoonotic pandemics...I noted at the time that we have had many zoonotic pandemics in human history (preceding any such research), but the risk of such pandemics has increased dramatically with human density and mobility.

So, the withdrawal of US engagement and the defunding of international oversight, is exactly the opposite direction we should have been going these past years, and year, and going forward. Alienating others in the international community on this topic is ridiculously stupid. Yet, that's exactly the point of the Trumpist, nativist, anti-science conspiracy mongers...it's all about manipulating domestic voters for a degenerate liar's authoritarian aims...and lots and lots of people line up to join in, amplify...whether that's their conscious intent or not.

I'm 100% in favor of the scientists who actually understand the research, its risks and misapplications, as well as the benefits...to focus on the safety and oversight necessary. Debate away experts, work hard on making sure any such is done safely...but those coming at this as an opportunity to "blame" an "Other" I reject 100% as well.

Yeah on OS gain of research I know f**k-all (technical term) about physical science in general but I know statistics and understanding scientific inquiry enough to know that research is supposed to be done for research’s sake. Just like space exploration. Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all.

No doubt that post has intent behind it, specifically an anti China bias. But trying to avoid dealing with that however think it should be pointed out that this concept of “gain of use” research is intellectually bankrupt as research carries gain, and more when tests fail, at all times. Anyone who’s experimented at all should know this intuitively.

Now do I think there was a more nefarious intent? Probably, but as PS stated we will never know. Trust but verify, empirical skepticism.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:34 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:08 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is kind of "neat to go back and read through"...lemme just point out that Salty just made the argument that the research, if "gain of function", should not be allowed...because it could be for bio-weapon research...by the Chinese...

This is exactly the sort of argument I was warning and pushing back against back then, which others denied applied to any of our fellow FL posters, that this was being used to politically blame an "Other" country (China) and any thing involving international oversight (WHO), and to promote the anti-scientific bias of many in our country.

This research, carefully executed and with active international oversight and transparency, is tremendously important for the prevention of zoonotic pandemics...I noted at the time that we have had many zoonotic pandemics in human history (preceding any such research), but the risk of such pandemics has increased dramatically with human density and mobility.

So, the withdrawal of US engagement and the defunding of international oversight, is exactly the opposite direction we should have been going these past years, and year, and going forward. Alienating others in the international community on this topic is ridiculously stupid. Yet, that's exactly the point of the Trumpist, nativist, anti-science conspiracy mongers...it's all about manipulating domestic voters for a degenerate liar's authoritarian aims...and lots and lots of people line up to join in, amplify...whether that's their conscious intent or not.

I'm 100% in favor of the scientists who actually understand the research, its risks and misapplications, as well as the benefits...to focus on the safety and oversight necessary. Debate away experts, work hard on making sure any such is done safely...but those coming at this as an opportunity to "blame" an "Other" I reject 100% as well.

Yeah on OS gain of research I know f**k-all (technical term) about physical science in general but I know statistics and understanding scientific inquiry enough to know that research is supposed to be done for research’s sake. Just like space exploration. Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all.

No doubt that post has intent behind it, specifically an anti China bias. But trying to avoid dealing with that however think it should be pointed out that this concept of “gain of use” research is intellectually bankrupt as research carries gain, and more when tests fail, at all times. Anyone who’s experimented at all should know this intuitively.

Now do I think there was a more nefarious intent? Probably, but as PS stated we will never know. Trust but verify, empirical skepticism.

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:26 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:34 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:08 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is kind of "neat to go back and read through"...lemme just point out that Salty just made the argument that the research, if "gain of function", should not be allowed...because it could be for bio-weapon research...by the Chinese...

This is exactly the sort of argument I was warning and pushing back against back then, which others denied applied to any of our fellow FL posters, that this was being used to politically blame an "Other" country (China) and any thing involving international oversight (WHO), and to promote the anti-scientific bias of many in our country.

This research, carefully executed and with active international oversight and transparency, is tremendously important for the prevention of zoonotic pandemics...I noted at the time that we have had many zoonotic pandemics in human history (preceding any such research), but the risk of such pandemics has increased dramatically with human density and mobility.

So, the withdrawal of US engagement and the defunding of international oversight, is exactly the opposite direction we should have been going these past years, and year, and going forward. Alienating others in the international community on this topic is ridiculously stupid. Yet, that's exactly the point of the Trumpist, nativist, anti-science conspiracy mongers...it's all about manipulating domestic voters for a degenerate liar's authoritarian aims...and lots and lots of people line up to join in, amplify...whether that's their conscious intent or not.

I'm 100% in favor of the scientists who actually understand the research, its risks and misapplications, as well as the benefits...to focus on the safety and oversight necessary. Debate away experts, work hard on making sure any such is done safely...but those coming at this as an opportunity to "blame" an "Other" I reject 100% as well.

Yeah on OS gain of research I know f**k-all (technical term) about physical science in general but I know statistics and understanding scientific inquiry enough to know that research is supposed to be done for research’s sake. Just like space exploration. Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all.

No doubt that post has intent behind it, specifically an anti China bias. But trying to avoid dealing with that however think it should be pointed out that this concept of “gain of use” research is intellectually bankrupt as research carries gain, and more when tests fail, at all times. Anyone who’s experimented at all should know this intuitively.

Now do I think there was a more nefarious intent? Probably, but as PS stated we will never know. Trust but verify, empirical skepticism.

Finally, someone who understands the scientific method: we believe that which we have not been able to disprove. Nothing is provable.

"Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all."

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:58 am Fauci going all in now.....Like stealing your wallet, then helping you try to find it?

“COVID-19 has shown a bright light on our own society’s failings’ after the virus disproportionally killed people of color,” Fauci said.

“Almost all relate to the social determinants of health dating back to disadvantageous conditions that some people of color find themselves in from birth regarding the availability of an adequate diet, access to health care and the undeniable effects of racism in our society,” Fauci said.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:34 am

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:26 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:34 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 11:08 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:55 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 9:43 am We have a thread for this....and this is where the lab idea was poo-poo'd by a few...going as far as using a pull quote from a non-scientist (Top Brass) . Funny how we trust a military guy with science when it benefits our argument...I'll have to remember to do this more often.

Kind of neat to go back and read through some of this stuff as we were all sleuthing early on...

https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ab#p136008

You are mischaracterizing the “quote from a non scientist”....he didn’t make the conclusion sport:

He said:
“US intelligence has looked into the possibility that the coronavirus outbreak could have started in a Chinese laboratory, but that the “weight of evidence” so far pointed towards “natural” origins.”

You also understand what “so far” means in this context? So far, I don’t know who is going to win the games today....Check back later. I probably won’t be able to tell you at halftime either.....

I may have assumed US intelligence included scientists but I could be wrong.

Yes, it is kind of "neat to go back and read through"...lemme just point out that Salty just made the argument that the research, if "gain of function", should not be allowed...because it could be for bio-weapon research...by the Chinese...

This is exactly the sort of argument I was warning and pushing back against back then, which others denied applied to any of our fellow FL posters, that this was being used to politically blame an "Other" country (China) and any thing involving international oversight (WHO), and to promote the anti-scientific bias of many in our country.

This research, carefully executed and with active international oversight and transparency, is tremendously important for the prevention of zoonotic pandemics...I noted at the time that we have had many zoonotic pandemics in human history (preceding any such research), but the risk of such pandemics has increased dramatically with human density and mobility.

So, the withdrawal of US engagement and the defunding of international oversight, is exactly the opposite direction we should have been going these past years, and year, and going forward. Alienating others in the international community on this topic is ridiculously stupid. Yet, that's exactly the point of the Trumpist, nativist, anti-science conspiracy mongers...it's all about manipulating domestic voters for a degenerate liar's authoritarian aims...and lots and lots of people line up to join in, amplify...whether that's their conscious intent or not.

I'm 100% in favor of the scientists who actually understand the research, its risks and misapplications, as well as the benefits...to focus on the safety and oversight necessary. Debate away experts, work hard on making sure any such is done safely...but those coming at this as an opportunity to "blame" an "Other" I reject 100% as well.

Yeah on OS gain of research I know f**k-all (technical term) about physical science in general but I know statistics and understanding scientific inquiry enough to know that research is supposed to be done for research’s sake. Just like space exploration. Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all.

No doubt that post has intent behind it, specifically an anti China bias. But trying to avoid dealing with that however think it should be pointed out that this concept of “gain of use” research is intellectually bankrupt as research carries gain, and more when tests fail, at all times. Anyone who’s experimented at all should know this intuitively.

Now do I think there was a more nefarious intent? Probably, but as PS stated we will never know. Trust but verify, empirical skepticism.

Finally, someone who understands the scientific method: we believe that which we have not been able to disprove. Nothing is provable.

"Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all."

It appears we are in agreement..."Things deemed a failure are actually more of a success because we can say with certainty something doesn’t work but successful testing of a thesis doesn’t prove anything at all." So it is safe to say, testing CV-19 @ the BSL4 lab @ WU was a failure.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 11:58 am Fauci going all in now.....Like stealing your wallet, then helping you try to find it?

“COVID-19 has shown a bright light on our own society’s failings’ after the virus disproportionally killed people of color,” Fauci said.

“Almost all relate to the social determinants of health dating back to disadvantageous conditions that some people of color find themselves in from birth regarding the availability of an adequate diet, access to health care and the undeniable effects of racism in our society,” Fauci said.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 7:21 am

old salt wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 10:55 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:53 pm The only notion that I object to is the notion that any of us on here have denied that there is a "REAL possibility" that it could have been out of a lab. Of course it should be "considered".

But it shouldn't be assumed, nor be a political bludgeon.

What I do think should be "assumed" is that because there's at least such a possibility, safety protocols should be a priority. How do we better ensure that any labs involved are super safe?

The bigger issue is even doing gain-of-function research & why.
No matter the rationale, it still can be used as a bio-weapon.
The same result if there is an accidental release.
The benefit does not justify the risk or the potential for misuse.
It's just too much of a coincidence that the outbreak was in Wuhan.

Tell it Ft. Dietrich.
I don't agree re the research, but I'd note that neither of us is an expert in this field.