ESPN Crew is Unlistenable

[Chousnake]

This thread has lost the point made a few pages back and is instead rehashing, for the second week now, the committee's decision to put more value on ND's failure to beat a top team out of the ACC than on its late season 6 game run beating Syracuse twice, Duke twice, Marquette and UNC.

The point that was made is that Q, Carc, and Anish spent the days after the tourney selection trashing the tournament because ND was left out. It is one thing to say the committee, in their opinion (because that is all it is) made a mistake by leaving ND out over - say Harvard. It is quite another to say the tournament has been undermined by leaving out a "bubble" team. That doesn't "grow the game." Those kind of comments undermine the showcase event for growing the game. That is the problem here. It's not the committee leaving out ND. It is the voices of the sport making that alleged snub into the biggest story of the tournament instead of the tournament itself.

The point some of us are trying to make is that there have been snubs every year - some of them pretty bad. The only difference this year is that the snub is not impacting an Ivy team or a Rutgers, but is impacting one of the media favorites -an ACC team and media darling ND team. That doesn't make the alleged snub worse for an objective fan. It apparently makes it worse for the ACC fan boys in the lax media and some on this board, but the mystery is why? Regardless, trashing the entire tournament and the 18 teams 700+ players that are playing in the first full tourney since 2019 is inexcusable.

[wgdsr]

When I asked how that translates to a #7 RPI (how can you be #7 when your highest win is over #9 and you have 3 losses to teams 20 or lower?) or when I suggest that their RPI was grossly inflated by games (not wins...games) against teams with good records, the answer I keep getting is that RPI can't be inflated, it's a formula, it's the maths, etc, etc...

You win the RPI game in the off season when you put your schedule together.

This, exactly.

It backfired on ND this season.

they had no idea the committee was going to change their and only their rpi wins into "tourney team or not"?

they need better foresight.

12 games and not beating a good team came back to bite them in the ass.

haha. imma guess if princeton beat a #7 team twice, you wouldn't post that. maybe you would, but it wouldn't change the "rules" of a good team.

12 games. hoo played a more difficult trio ooc than notre dame? p'ton definitely. maryland maybe as they can't play themselves. g'town? anyone else? that's only one at large. so more patsies for the irish?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/nd/2022

Quite a body of work.

throw up tosu's, rutgers and uva just for giggles.

I don’t hear them complaining. If they did, I would.

you want it to be like parenting. do better, that's going around. of course there's an element to that, but especially given how this is done. don't live on the bubble.

several have a proposal that we can also do better in lining this all up. you can have both. i've been bubble out, no explanation. that was the dark ages, so not surprising. do better. here we are decades later, and we've only transformed to bad explanation. progress!!!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Since you asked: in 2015 Princeton’s top 5 RPI wins were against 9,10,11,19,20….I thought they could have gotten a bid. A bad loss cost them. In 2022 ND’s top 5 RPI wins 7, 17, 30,45,62

They got hosed.

you forgot a 7. they didn't have a "bad loss" vs comp's "bad loss".

I am not counting the same team twice. That’s an ACC scheme that didn’t work out this year. ND got robbed. You see the TEAM they beat!

sounds like you could apply for a spot on the committee.

The “reasonableness” test.

[Typical Lax Dad]

When I asked how that translates to a #7 RPI (how can you be #7 when your highest win is over #9 and you have 3 losses to teams 20 or lower?) or when I suggest that their RPI was grossly inflated by games (not wins...games) against teams with good records, the answer I keep getting is that RPI can't be inflated, it's a formula, it's the maths, etc, etc...

You win the RPI game in the off season when you put your schedule together.

This, exactly.

It backfired on ND this season.

they had no idea the committee was going to change their and only their rpi wins into "tourney team or not"?

they need better foresight.

12 games and not beating a good team came back to bite them in the ass.

haha. imma guess if princeton beat a #7 team twice, you wouldn't post that. maybe you would, but it wouldn't change the "rules" of a good team.

12 games. hoo played a more difficult trio ooc than notre dame? p'ton definitely. maryland maybe as they can't play themselves. g'town? anyone else? that's only one at large. so more patsies for the irish?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/nd/2022

Quite a body of work.

throw up tosu's, rutgers and uva just for giggles.

I don’t hear them complaining. If they did, I would.

you want it to be like parenting. do better, that's going around. of course there's an element to that, but especially given how this is done. don't live on the bubble.

several have a proposal that we can also do better in lining this all up. you can have both. i've been bubble out, no explanation. that was the dark ages, so not surprising. do better. here we are decades later, and we've only transformed to bad explanation. progress!!!

You are suggesting that the committee do better? Or ND do better?

[wgdsr]

When I asked how that translates to a #7 RPI (how can you be #7 when your highest win is over #9 and you have 3 losses to teams 20 or lower?) or when I suggest that their RPI was grossly inflated by games (not wins...games) against teams with good records, the answer I keep getting is that RPI can't be inflated, it's a formula, it's the maths, etc, etc...

You win the RPI game in the off season when you put your schedule together.

This, exactly.

It backfired on ND this season.

they had no idea the committee was going to change their and only their rpi wins into "tourney team or not"?

they need better foresight.

12 games and not beating a good team came back to bite them in the ass.

haha. imma guess if princeton beat a #7 team twice, you wouldn't post that. maybe you would, but it wouldn't change the "rules" of a good team.

12 games. hoo played a more difficult trio ooc than notre dame? p'ton definitely. maryland maybe as they can't play themselves. g'town? anyone else? that's only one at large. so more patsies for the irish?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/nd/2022

Quite a body of work.

throw up tosu's, rutgers and uva just for giggles.

I don’t hear them complaining. If they did, I would.

you want it to be like parenting. do better, that's going around. of course there's an element to that, but especially given how this is done. don't live on the bubble.

several have a proposal that we can also do better in lining this all up. you can have both. i've been bubble out, no explanation. that was the dark ages, so not surprising. do better. here we are decades later, and we've only transformed to bad explanation. progress!!!

You are suggesting that the committee do better? Or ND do better?

both!! here's the thing for this year at least... nd did do better. than tosu, and arguably others. for what the committee said was important to them. until they didn't.

[Typical Lax Dad]

When I asked how that translates to a #7 RPI (how can you be #7 when your highest win is over #9 and you have 3 losses to teams 20 or lower?) or when I suggest that their RPI was grossly inflated by games (not wins...games) against teams with good records, the answer I keep getting is that RPI can't be inflated, it's a formula, it's the maths, etc, etc...

You win the RPI game in the off season when you put your schedule together.

This, exactly.

It backfired on ND this season.

they had no idea the committee was going to change their and only their rpi wins into "tourney team or not"?

they need better foresight.

12 games and not beating a good team came back to bite them in the ass.

haha. imma guess if princeton beat a #7 team twice, you wouldn't post that. maybe you would, but it wouldn't change the "rules" of a good team.

12 games. hoo played a more difficult trio ooc than notre dame? p'ton definitely. maryland maybe as they can't play themselves. g'town? anyone else? that's only one at large. so more patsies for the irish?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/nd/2022

Quite a body of work.

throw up tosu's, rutgers and uva just for giggles.

I don’t hear them complaining. If they did, I would.

you want it to be like parenting. do better, that's going around. of course there's an element to that, but especially given how this is done. don't live on the bubble.

several have a proposal that we can also do better in lining this all up. you can have both. i've been bubble out, no explanation. that was the dark ages, so not surprising. do better. here we are decades later, and we've only transformed to bad explanation. progress!!!

You are suggesting that the committee do better? Or ND do better?

both!! here's the thing for this year at least... nd did do better. than tosu, and arguably others. for what the committee said was important to them. until they didn't.

Un huh:

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/wp-conten ... -ND-11.pdf

They proved themselves to be better than Duke (maybe).

[wgdsr]

When I asked how that translates to a #7 RPI (how can you be #7 when your highest win is over #9 and you have 3 losses to teams 20 or lower?) or when I suggest that their RPI was grossly inflated by games (not wins...games) against teams with good records, the answer I keep getting is that RPI can't be inflated, it's a formula, it's the maths, etc, etc...

You win the RPI game in the off season when you put your schedule together.

This, exactly.

It backfired on ND this season.

they had no idea the committee was going to change their and only their rpi wins into "tourney team or not"?

they need better foresight.

12 games and not beating a good team came back to bite them in the ass.

haha. imma guess if princeton beat a #7 team twice, you wouldn't post that. maybe you would, but it wouldn't change the "rules" of a good team.

12 games. hoo played a more difficult trio ooc than notre dame? p'ton definitely. maryland maybe as they can't play themselves. g'town? anyone else? that's only one at large. so more patsies for the irish?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/nd/2022

Quite a body of work.

throw up tosu's, rutgers and uva just for giggles.

I don’t hear them complaining. If they did, I would.

you want it to be like parenting. do better, that's going around. of course there's an element to that, but especially given how this is done. don't live on the bubble.

several have a proposal that we can also do better in lining this all up. you can have both. i've been bubble out, no explanation. that was the dark ages, so not surprising. do better. here we are decades later, and we've only transformed to bad explanation. progress!!!

You are suggesting that the committee do better? Or ND do better?

both!! here's the thing for this year at least... nd did do better. than tosu, and arguably others. for what the committee said was important to them. until they didn't.

Un huh:

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/wp-conten ... -ND-11.pdf

They proved themselves to be better than Duke (maybe).

i'll start a campaign to see if we can get denver in ex-post facto:
https://denverpioneers.com/sports/mens- ... core/12225

[Typical Lax Dad]

When I asked how that translates to a #7 RPI (how can you be #7 when your highest win is over #9 and you have 3 losses to teams 20 or lower?) or when I suggest that their RPI was grossly inflated by games (not wins...games) against teams with good records, the answer I keep getting is that RPI can't be inflated, it's a formula, it's the maths, etc, etc...

You win the RPI game in the off season when you put your schedule together.

This, exactly.

It backfired on ND this season.

they had no idea the committee was going to change their and only their rpi wins into "tourney team or not"?

they need better foresight.

12 games and not beating a good team came back to bite them in the ass.

haha. imma guess if princeton beat a #7 team twice, you wouldn't post that. maybe you would, but it wouldn't change the "rules" of a good team.

12 games. hoo played a more difficult trio ooc than notre dame? p'ton definitely. maryland maybe as they can't play themselves. g'town? anyone else? that's only one at large. so more patsies for the irish?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/team/nd/2022

Quite a body of work.

throw up tosu's, rutgers and uva just for giggles.

I don’t hear them complaining. If they did, I would.

you want it to be like parenting. do better, that's going around. of course there's an element to that, but especially given how this is done. don't live on the bubble.

several have a proposal that we can also do better in lining this all up. you can have both. i've been bubble out, no explanation. that was the dark ages, so not surprising. do better. here we are decades later, and we've only transformed to bad explanation. progress!!!

You are suggesting that the committee do better? Or ND do better?

both!! here's the thing for this year at least... nd did do better. than tosu, and arguably others. for what the committee said was important to them. until they didn't.

Un huh:

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/wp-conten ... -ND-11.pdf

They proved themselves to be better than Duke (maybe).

i'll start a campaign to see if we can get denver in ex-post facto:
https://denverpioneers.com/sports/mens- ... core/12225

Denver folk took it like a man. Do better.

https://denverpioneers.com/sports/mens- ... e/schedule

[wgdsr]

small wonder we are still here in 2022!!! enjoy it. maybe the "acc" will rise again! i'm guessing everyone will be fine with that!

i noticed you haven't gotten around to posting tosu's full sched yet!

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

[Typical Lax Dad]

small wonder we are still here in 2022!!! enjoy it. maybe the "acc" will rise again! i'm guessing everyone will be fine with that!

i noticed you haven't gotten around to posting tosu's full sched yet!

I have only posted those receiving complaints. Do better.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone going to post the link where NCAA selection committee has stated that RPI is the only metric used to select at large bids but changed it this year? Should be tons but just post one.

[wgdsr]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

from your lips to god's ears. not sure how we would get reform in any walk of life without some form of "protest"... ya know, dem's the rules... even if they aren't the rules... deal.

we've hashed one thing out. tld doesn't like 12 games schedules. harvard should take note. ftr, i always thought they were living on the edge with that.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

from your lips to god's ears. not sure how we would get reform in any walk of life without some form of "protest"... ya know, dem's the rules... even if they aren't the rules... deal.

we've hashed one thing out. tld doesn't like 12 games schedules. harvard should take note. ftr, i always thought they were living on the edge with that.

Harvard should. Ivy League won’t always be that strong. Could have easily been left out. In fact, I didn’t think they would be selected (notice I didn’t used the word “deserved”… teams don’t deserve anything. You earn it…don’t do enough and you “deserve” what you get). Beat TOSU and ND was in. Take it off the table.

[wgdsr]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

from your lips to god's ears. not sure how we would get reform in any walk of life without some form of "protest"... ya know, dem's the rules... even if they aren't the rules... deal.

we've hashed one thing out. tld doesn't like 12 games schedules. harvard should take note. ftr, i always thought they were living on the edge with that.

Harvard should. Ivy League won’t always be that strong. Could have easily been left out. In fact, I didn’t think they would be selected (notice I didn’t used the word “deserved”… teams don’t deserve anything. You earn it…don’t do enough and you “deserve” what you get). Beat TOSU and ND was in. Take it off the table.

nd should confer with penn, too. hell, even p'ton had 13 games. step up! what's another game to get to the right #!

you have no way of knowing whether nd is in with a win over tosu. domers didn't beat anyone else.

[MDlaxfan76]

This thread has lost the point made a few pages back and is instead rehashing, for the second week now, the committee's decision to put more value on ND's failure to beat a top team out of the ACC than on its late season 6 game run beating Syracuse twice, Duke twice, Marquette and UNC.

The point that was made is that Q, Carc, and Anish spent the days after the tourney selection trashing the tournament because ND was left out. It is one thing to say the committee, in their opinion (because that is all it is) made a mistake by leaving ND out over - say Harvard. It is quite another to say the tournament has been undermined by leaving out a "bubble" team. That doesn't "grow the game." Those kind of comments undermine the showcase event for growing the game. That is the problem here. It's not the committee leaving out ND. It is the voices of the sport making that alleged snub into the biggest story of the tournament instead of the tournament itself.

The point some of us are trying to make is that there have been snubs every year - some of them pretty bad. The only difference this year is that the snub is not impacting an Ivy team or a Rutgers, but is impacting one of the media favorites -an ACC team and media darling ND team. That doesn't make the alleged snub worse for an objective fan. It apparently makes it worse for the ACC fan boys in the lax media and some on this board, but the mystery is why? Regardless, trashing the entire tournament and the 18 teams 700+ players that are playing in the first full tourney since 2019 is inexcusable.

+1
It's certainly fair to argue about which bubble team was most likely to get past the first round, but I think TLD is right, do better, don't be a bubble team...be better, do better.

and this thread is about the ESPN commentators being so over wrought on all this, about what?...bubble teams that simply didn't do enough to make it not a question.

[MDlaxfan76]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

from your lips to god's ears. not sure how we would get reform in any walk of life without some form of "protest"... ya know, dem's the rules... even if they aren't the rules... deal.

we've hashed one thing out. tld doesn't like 12 games schedules. harvard should take note. ftr, i always thought they were living on the edge with that.

Harvard should. Ivy League won’t always be that strong. Could have easily been left out. In fact, I didn’t think they would be selected (notice I didn’t used the word “deserved”… teams don’t deserve anything. You earn it…don’t do enough and you “deserve” what you get). Beat TOSU and ND was in. Take it off the table.

nd should confer with penn, too. hell, even p'ton had 13 games. step up! what's another game to get to the right #!

you have no way of knowing whether nd is in with a win over tosu. domers didn't beat anyone else.

They beat Harvard.
Beat OSU, there's no question, no need to whine.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

from your lips to god's ears. not sure how we would get reform in any walk of life without some form of "protest"... ya know, dem's the rules... even if they aren't the rules... deal.

we've hashed one thing out. tld doesn't like 12 games schedules. harvard should take note. ftr, i always thought they were living on the edge with that.

Harvard should. Ivy League won’t always be that strong. Could have easily been left out. In fact, I didn’t think they would be selected (notice I didn’t used the word “deserved”… teams don’t deserve anything. You earn it…don’t do enough and you “deserve” what you get). Beat TOSU and ND was in. Take it off the table.

nd should confer with penn, too. hell, even p'ton had 13 games. step up! what's another game to get to the right #!

you have no way of knowing whether nd is in with a win over tosu. domers didn't beat anyone else.

Yes. JHU had to cancel the Princeton game and with a mid February start and all the lacrosse conferences that exist now, the OCC window is compressed for Ivy League schools compared to others. They do the best they can, I reckon. ACC doesn't have to worry about a conference tournament so ND should try to get more games in. If ACC had a tournament, maybe they get in on the AQ..... This is an anomaly for the ACC I believe. Pre-season rankings next year may be a headwind for RPI unless they get some big OCC wins. you got that RPI link yet?

[wgdsr]

This is like college admissions. I have said for years parents focus on two things: SAT / GPA. More to it than those two things but guess what, those are two things parents can help manipulate….I can’t tell you the number of time I heard Johnny didn’t get into X school but had a higher SAT score than Adam. All that tutoring and test prep money gone to waste… ND engineering its 12 game schedule didn’t work this season.

from your lips to god's ears. not sure how we would get reform in any walk of life without some form of "protest"... ya know, dem's the rules... even if they aren't the rules... deal.

we've hashed one thing out. tld doesn't like 12 games schedules. harvard should take note. ftr, i always thought they were living on the edge with that.

Harvard should. Ivy League won’t always be that strong. Could have easily been left out. In fact, I didn’t think they would be selected (notice I didn’t used the word “deserved”… teams don’t deserve anything. You earn it…don’t do enough and you “deserve” what you get). Beat TOSU and ND was in. Take it off the table.

nd should confer with penn, too. hell, even p'ton had 13 games. step up! what's another game to get to the right #!

you have no way of knowing whether nd is in with a win over tosu. domers didn't beat anyone else.

They beat Harvard.
Beat OSU, there's no question, no need to whine.

you can take your whine schtick and move along, my guy.

[Hoxwurth]

This thread has lost the point made a few pages back and is instead rehashing, for the second week now, the committee's decision to put more value on ND's failure to beat a top team out of the ACC than on its late season 6 game run beating Syracuse twice, Duke twice, Marquette and UNC.

The point that was made is that Q, Carc, and Anish spent the days after the tourney selection trashing the tournament because ND was left out. It is one thing to say the committee, in their opinion (because that is all it is) made a mistake by leaving ND out over - say Harvard. It is quite another to say the tournament has been undermined by leaving out a "bubble" team. That doesn't "grow the game." Those kind of comments undermine the showcase event for growing the game. That is the problem here. It's not the committee leaving out ND. It is the voices of the sport making that alleged snub into the biggest story of the tournament instead of the tournament itself.

The point some of us are trying to make is that there have been snubs every year - some of them pretty bad. The only difference this year is that the snub is not impacting an Ivy team or a Rutgers, but is impacting one of the media favorites -an ACC team and media darling ND team. That doesn't make the alleged snub worse for an objective fan. It apparently makes it worse for the ACC fan boys in the lax media and some on this board, but the mystery is why? Regardless, trashing the entire tournament and the 18 teams 700+ players that are playing in the first full tourney since 2019 is inexcusable.

The committee applied the stated criteria differently to ND than it did to other teams like Harvard. For a normal bubble team, that would be bad luck and lead to some grousing a la 2019 Cornell (who had less room to complain than 2022 ND). The committee pretended that Harvard had quality wins and ND did not because Duke was magically devalued without reference to the rules.

In this case, the committee's haphazard application has raised so many hackles because ND is not just a normal bubble team--it's a team that could have competed for the national championship. In the past, bubble teams were not reasonably expected to have a shot at making the Final Four. Leaving out a team that earned a slot (based on universal application of the pre-tournament criteria) and had a shot at winning does cheapen the overall tournament, especially to an objective fan. I say this as someone who dislikes Corrigan, by the way.

In the likely event Maryland wins, at least their accomplishments this season will not be diminished, no matter how much the committee tarnished the field with its machinations.