Womens USA team Who you got?

[LarryGamLax]

Gotta like what you see in the U16s and U18s, lotta speed and good players.
US wlaxers are just really strong, awful lot of good players out there. Do
believe the rule changes has attracted a lot of good athletes to this game.

Please explain this in some detail if you can. From where and what sports? When exactly did this start OR is this just something you have a gut feeling about?

[DMac]

It's just a gut feeling but it also comes from talking with a number of young wlaxers and ex wlaxers. I was talking with a girl a couple of weeks back who had played in Vermont (college) a number of years ago and prior to the rule changes that has drastically changed the game. She has/had absolutely no interest in the game anymore, doesn't watch any, didn't even know today's game is a whole different game. When I explained to her that today's game is a whole different game and told her of some of the changes she got excited and said she wanted to check a game out now. I've mentioned before that I've spoken with quite a number of girls who played the game but gave it up because they just didn't like it. I've also mentioned that I couldn't even watch wlax because of the stop and go nature of the game, the repositioning, and the D being rewarded (so to speak) for committing a penalty. Wlax desperately needed the changes that have been made to the game and I absolutely believe that this game will attract more girls. I'm pretty darn sure I wouldn't have liked lacrosse if I had to play it under the rules of the old wlax game but I would've liked it if I could play by today's rules, and I'm sure there are a whole bunch of girls who feel the same way. Today's game is much faster, more wide open, and it just has to be much more fun to play than the game of yesteryear.

[watcherinthewoods]

IMHO field hockey’s loss has been soccer and lacrosse’s gain. Anecdotal, but field hockey (my sport) has done a poor job of expanding regionally and lost an entire generation to soccer because they did not offer the sport in many areas until middle school. And the national organization, US FIELD HOCKEY, has been completely mismanaged in the last decade. So many girls grew up playing soccer and lax and dropped soccer: physically too hard on bodies and harder to get recruited (at least in our neck of the woods). Bottom line, I agree, many top female athletes are gravitating to lacrosse.

[Justalaxdad]

Rachel looked great through one half. Love her “technique” AND athleticism. Both of which are needed to make a complete goalie. Pretty good stuff from a national champion, but hey, that’s just my opinion.

As I type this she just saved Charlotte on a point blank shot. Such a great goalie!

I saw this last night and really tried to let it go, but I can't. As the "preeminent know-it-all, who if memory serves correct, never played the position, Big Bad Larry" I have to ask the following...What FACTS lead one to say that Rachel Hall is a "Great Goalie"? She wasn't an All-American selection last season. She wasn't a 1st or 2nd team All-Region selection, but in fact 3 other Goalies were picked over her. Maybe it's just me, but I am confused as to what great is.

And one last thing : Technique, Mechanics, Athleticism and Knowledge are traits for a complete Goalie. However, there have been GREAT Goalies in this sport(Men & Women) who lacked the "athleticism", but had outstanding technique, mechanics and knowledge and those are the things that make for consistency of play in this most important position.

That's the opinion of a misguided, uninformed know nothing. You are what you iz!

What was the big deal about this that you “just couldn’t let it go”? Didn’t you just make a post (aimed at me) about opinions? It’s my opinion that she’s a great goalie. You mention stats like they are the be all end all. Anyone who knows anything about sports knows that stats don’t always tell the whole story. She played in the toughest conference in the country last year (which is not debatable) so she played BC twice, UNC twice, etc, so a rational person would understand she may not have the best stats during the season. Now on the flip you had an all American from a mid level conference who played twice against teams who were clearly inferior so she had gaudy stats like save %. I happen to think she’s also a VERY good goalie. What happened when push came to shove when it matters in the tournament? Rachel rose to the occasion multiple times including a gem in the semi final game.

Instead of always telling people to explain themselves regarding their opinions, why don’t you tell us all why you think she is not a great goalie? And not that she wasn’t an All American - tell us WHY she isn’t great. It’s your opinion after all and like you said, that’s what this forum is all about.

[wlaxphan20]

IMHO field hockey’s loss has been soccer and lacrosse’s gain. Anecdotal, but field hockey (my sport) has done a poor job of expanding regionally and lost an entire generation to soccer because they did not offer the sport in many areas until middle school. And the national organization, US FIELD HOCKEY, has been completely mismanaged in the last decade. So many girls grew up playing soccer and lax and dropped soccer: physically too hard on bodies and harder to get recruited (at least in our neck of the woods). Bottom line, I agree, many top female athletes are gravitating to lacrosse.

I think women's soccer owes a very large part of its growth to the women's national team in the late 90s and more specifically to the US hosting the Women's World Cup in 1999. If that time period coincided with field hockey doing a poor job expanding & the mismanagement of US Field Hockey, I still think, even if those things had been done well, field hockey still would have lost a substantial amount of athletes to soccer. They probably continued to do so as the USWNT was able to remain popular and sustain their success by winning Olympic gold in 2004, 2008, & 2012 and the World Cup in 2015 & 2019.

Where I grew up (PA), I remember being surprised at how many lacrosse players also played field hockey, to the point where it felt like they went hand in hand. A decent amount of lacrosse players still played soccer, but the majority played field hockey. Outside of lacrosse players, I'd say in my part of PA, the number of girls that played soccer and field hockey was pretty even, but it took me a good 20 years to realize how incredibly popular field hockey is in the entire state of Pennsylvania. I just never knew.

And I completely agree with what you're saying about girls that grew up playing soccer and lacrosse. To add on, the club soccer season is never-ending.. Much more so than club lacrosse. It is insanely demanding even at a young age and especially so at the highest levels.

[LarryGamLax]

Rachel looked great through one half. Love her “technique” AND athleticism. Both of which are needed to make a complete goalie. Pretty good stuff from a national champion, but hey, that’s just my opinion.

As I type this she just saved Charlotte on a point blank shot. Such a great goalie!

I saw this last night and really tried to let it go, but I can't. As the "preeminent know-it-all, who if memory serves correct, never played the position, Big Bad Larry" I have to ask the following...What FACTS lead one to say that Rachel Hall is a "Great Goalie"? She wasn't an All-American selection last season. She wasn't a 1st or 2nd team All-Region selection, but in fact 3 other Goalies were picked over her. Maybe it's just me, but I am confused as to what great is.

And one last thing : Technique, Mechanics, Athleticism and Knowledge are traits for a complete Goalie. However, there have been GREAT Goalies in this sport(Men & Women) who lacked the "athleticism", but had outstanding technique, mechanics and knowledge and those are the things that make for consistency of play in this most important position.

That's the opinion of a misguided, uninformed know nothing. You are what you iz!

What was the big deal about this that you “just couldn’t let it go”? Didn’t you just make a post (aimed at me) about opinions? It’s my opinion that she’s a great goalie. You mention stats like they are the be all end all. Anyone who knows anything about sports knows that stats don’t always tell the whole story. She played in the toughest conference in the country last year (which is not debatable) so she played BC twice, UNC twice, etc, so a rational person would understand she may not have the best stats during the season. Now on the flip you had an all American from a mid level conference who played twice against teams who were clearly inferior so she had gaudy stats like save %. I happen to think she’s also a VERY good goalie. What happened when push came to shove when it matters in the tournament? Rachel rose to the occasion multiple times including a gem in the semi final game.

Instead of always telling people to explain themselves regarding their opinions, why don’t you tell us all why you think she is not a great goalie? And not that she wasn’t an All American - tell us WHY she isn’t great. It’s your opinion after all and like you said, that’s what this forum is all about.

I am going to say one last thing about this and...and then I'm COMPLETELY done with YOU!

Goalies are in a very unique position to prove themselves every single game. How so? By making Saves and running their defense. A Goalie's job is to 1) Make Saves, 2) Make Saves 3) See 1 & 2 The more saves a Goalie makes that can be more opportunities for her team on the offensive end. There are no excuses. I told you I have a friend who at one time was the best Goalie in D1, but she played for a very poor team. Made All-Conference 3 times, All-Region (twice I think), but never All-American. I knew that her ability was outstanding, but her team wasn't. She stayed there because she liked her school and they gave her an opportunity when others would not. She was just consistently good and made ZERO excuses when she wasn't. I always said if she was with this team and that team she would have received all the accolades she deserved. Notice, I said that...she NEVER did.

Do you see my point? I hope you do, but if you don't I'm past caring. So in conclusion, I will leave it this way : ignore my blowhard, bloviated, chest-thumping exercises in verbal excess and I will ignore any and all that you post. Use the Friends and and Foe feature on the Forum...and put me under Foes. That will spare you from my BS. Okay? Thanks and enjoy the Forum.

[LarryGamLax]

It's just a gut feeling but it also comes from talking with a number of young wlaxers and ex wlaxers. I was talking with a girl a couple of weeks back who had played in Vermont (college) a number of years ago and prior to the rule changes that has drastically changed the game. She has/had absolutely no interest in the game anymore, doesn't watch any, didn't even know today's game is a whole different game. When I explained to her that today's game is a whole different game and told her of some of the changes she got excited and said she wanted to check a game out now. I've mentioned before that I've spoken with quite a number of girls who played the game but gave it up because they just didn't like it. I've also mentioned that I couldn't even watch wlax because of the stop and go nature of the game, the repositioning, and the D being rewarded (so to speak) for committing a penalty. Wlax desperately needed the changes that have been made to the game and I absolutely believe that this game will attract more girls. I'm pretty darn sure I wouldn't have liked lacrosse if I had to play it under the rules of the old wlax game but I would've liked it if I could play by today's rules, and I'm sure there are a whole bunch of girls who feel the same way. Today's game is much faster, more wide open, and it just has to be much more fun to play than the game of yesteryear.

This is interesting. I know a lot of women who played and no longer keep up with the game unless their kids are involved. Most have told me that it's simply life. A lot do not watch or keep up unless someone tells them to take a look because so and so's daughter plays for team X.
I was training the daughters or nieces of former clients and they comment on how the game has changed, but rarely do I hear anyone complain about the state of the game when they played. The Men's game is different from when I played, but I don't remember being unhappy with the game then. I just always wished I was a lot better.
DMac, most women I know that had a bad experience with the game had issues with coaches, playing time, being homesick or realizing that at a certain level the sport was going to control most of your college life. I had a client who had a stellar freshman year at the D3 level, but then had a major problem with the coach. She gave up Lax, never looked back and graduated. She then taught in the Appalachians for 2 years and then made a decision to go back to Medicine. She was Pre-Med in undergrad. She got into Med School and she is now a Pediatrician working alongside of her father. Unfortunately, she has nothing to do with Lacrosse anymore and I am sad about that.

Lacrosse is great, but Life moves on.

[Justalaxdad]

Rachel looked great through one half. Love her “technique” AND athleticism. Both of which are needed to make a complete goalie. Pretty good stuff from a national champion, but hey, that’s just my opinion.

As I type this she just saved Charlotte on a point blank shot. Such a great goalie!

I saw this last night and really tried to let it go, but I can't. As the "preeminent know-it-all, who if memory serves correct, never played the position, Big Bad Larry" I have to ask the following...What FACTS lead one to say that Rachel Hall is a "Great Goalie"? She wasn't an All-American selection last season. She wasn't a 1st or 2nd team All-Region selection, but in fact 3 other Goalies were picked over her. Maybe it's just me, but I am confused as to what great is.

And one last thing : Technique, Mechanics, Athleticism and Knowledge are traits for a complete Goalie. However, there have been GREAT Goalies in this sport(Men & Women) who lacked the "athleticism", but had outstanding technique, mechanics and knowledge and those are the things that make for consistency of play in this most important position.

That's the opinion of a misguided, uninformed know nothing. You are what you iz!

What was the big deal about this that you “just couldn’t let it go”? Didn’t you just make a post (aimed at me) about opinions? It’s my opinion that she’s a great goalie. You mention stats like they are the be all end all. Anyone who knows anything about sports knows that stats don’t always tell the whole story. She played in the toughest conference in the country last year (which is not debatable) so she played BC twice, UNC twice, etc, so a rational person would understand she may not have the best stats during the season. Now on the flip you had an all American from a mid level conference who played twice against teams who were clearly inferior so she had gaudy stats like save %. I happen to think she’s also a VERY good goalie. What happened when push came to shove when it matters in the tournament? Rachel rose to the occasion multiple times including a gem in the semi final game.

Instead of always telling people to explain themselves regarding their opinions, why don’t you tell us all why you think she is not a great goalie? And not that she wasn’t an All American - tell us WHY she isn’t great. It’s your opinion after all and like you said, that’s what this forum is all about.

I am going to say one last thing about this and...and then I'm COMPLETELY done with YOU!

Goalies are in a very unique position to prove themselves every single game. How so? By making Saves and running their defense. A Goalie's job is to 1) Make Saves, 2) Make Saves 3) See 1 & 2 The more saves a Goalie makes that can be more opportunities for her team on the offensive end. There are no excuses. I told you I have a friend who at one time was the best Goalie in D1, but she played for a very poor team. Made All-Conference 3 times, All-Region (twice I think), but never All-American. I knew that her ability was outstanding, but her team wasn't. She stayed there because she liked her school and they gave her an opportunity when others would not. She was just consistently good and made ZERO excuses when she wasn't. I always said if she was with this team and that team she would have received all the accolades she deserved. Notice, I said that...she NEVER did.

Do you see my point? I hope you do, but if you don't I'm past caring. So in conclusion, I will leave it this way : ignore my blowhard, bloviated, chest-thumping exercises in verbal excess and I will ignore any and all that you post. Use the Friends and and Foe feature on the Forum...and put me under Foes. That will spare you from my BS. Okay? Thanks and enjoy the Forum.

THANK YOU!!! Hopefully you follow through this time as it's the third time you've said you're done responding (of course two of those were in PMs).

This whole blowup is because you came on a forum and tried to be snarky about a transfer you KNEW NOTHING ABOUT and flat out lied about things. You got caught because I happen to read the forum and you pissed me off enough to join and expose you. Then after doing this in public you half heartedly apologized in a PM instead of the public forum.

You constantly call people out for their opinions and demand "proof" for what they're saying yet like in this situation about Rachel Hall, you've asked for reasons why people including me think she's a great goalie. We've all responded why we think that and yet you still have yet to give your reasoning on why you think she isn't. It's the same BS with you on many threads - I think the guy that said you sound like a lawyer the way you manipulate what people say hit the nail on the head.

I also think it's great that your friend stayed at her school for 4 years BUT it has nothing to do with anything going on here. Her experience is her experience. Just because a kid transfers it doesn't mean she's ring chasing or that it has anything to do with lacrosse. Plenty of people have different reasons and I hate to let you in on this secret but YOU don't know all those reasons. In our case, you had/have zero knowledge.

I appreciate that you're done with me and quite frankly, I have been done with you for some time now. Cheers!

[Justalaxdad]

IMHO field hockey’s loss has been soccer and lacrosse’s gain. Anecdotal, but field hockey (my sport) has done a poor job of expanding regionally and lost an entire generation to soccer because they did not offer the sport in many areas until middle school. And the national organization, US FIELD HOCKEY, has been completely mismanaged in the last decade. So many girls grew up playing soccer and lax and dropped soccer: physically too hard on bodies and harder to get recruited (at least in our neck of the woods). Bottom line, I agree, many top female athletes are gravitating to lacrosse.

Hopefully lax learns this lesson and doesn't repeat it. I believe in the next 10 years or so you're going to see women's lacrosse take a huge step in terms of youth participation, especially west of the Mississippi. Kids and families are already learning that it's easier to get money in lacrosse versus soccer. Soccer seems to be over-saturated with the sheer number of players whereas lacrosse is still predominantly an east coast sport. Plus you factor in the number of foreign player that come over here to play soccer and lacrosse is primed for a boom. Just look at the rate at which colleges are adding women's lax. Both of my daughters played high level club soccer up until high school and it was clear that lax was the way to go if they wanted to play D1 sports.

[DMac]

Is that the reason they focused on lacrosse or is it because they liked it better/found it more exciting to play?

[8meterPA]

IMHO field hockey’s loss has been soccer and lacrosse’s gain. Anecdotal, but field hockey (my sport) has done a poor job of expanding regionally and lost an entire generation to soccer because they did not offer the sport in many areas until middle school. And the national organization, US FIELD HOCKEY, has been completely mismanaged in the last decade. So many girls grew up playing soccer and lax and dropped soccer: physically too hard on bodies and harder to get recruited (at least in our neck of the woods). Bottom line, I agree, many top female athletes are gravitating to lacrosse.

Hopefully lax learns this lesson and doesn't repeat it. I believe in the next 10 years or so you're going to see women's lacrosse take a huge step in terms of youth participation, especially west of the Mississippi. Kids and families are already learning that it's easier to get money in lacrosse versus soccer. Soccer seems to be over-saturated with the sheer number of players whereas lacrosse is still predominantly an east coast sport. Plus you factor in the number of foreign player that come over here to play soccer and lacrosse is primed for a boom. Just look at the rate at which colleges are adding women's lax. Both of my daughters played high level club soccer up until high school and it was clear that lax was the way to go if they wanted to play D1 sports.

you are spot on re: scholarship oppty's on east coast for women's lax vs. soccer - huge difference. Lax, IMO, is just a way more exciting game and the best athletes in our area gravitated towards it and eventually away from soccer.

A lot of our really good lax players also played field hockey, which like basketball and ice hockey is great for lax as it teaches proper spacing, passing, off-ball movement. And yes, the absolute best field hockey players do come from PA, hands down!

[wlaxphan20]

IMHO field hockey’s loss has been soccer and lacrosse’s gain. Anecdotal, but field hockey (my sport) has done a poor job of expanding regionally and lost an entire generation to soccer because they did not offer the sport in many areas until middle school. And the national organization, US FIELD HOCKEY, has been completely mismanaged in the last decade. So many girls grew up playing soccer and lax and dropped soccer: physically too hard on bodies and harder to get recruited (at least in our neck of the woods). Bottom line, I agree, many top female athletes are gravitating to lacrosse.

Hopefully lax learns this lesson and doesn't repeat it. I believe in the next 10 years or so you're going to see women's lacrosse take a huge step in terms of youth participation, especially west of the Mississippi. Kids and families are already learning that it's easier to get money in lacrosse versus soccer. Soccer seems to be over-saturated with the sheer number of players whereas lacrosse is still predominantly an east coast sport. Plus you factor in the number of foreign player that come over here to play soccer and lacrosse is primed for a boom. Just look at the rate at which colleges are adding women's lax. Both of my daughters played high level club soccer up until high school and it was clear that lax was the way to go if they wanted to play D1 sports.

you are spot on re: scholarship oppty's on east coast for women's lax vs. soccer - huge difference. Lax, IMO, is just a way more exciting game and the best athletes in our area gravitated towards it and eventually away from soccer.

A lot of our really good lax players also played field hockey, which like basketball and ice hockey is great for lax as it teaches proper spacing, passing, off-ball movement. And yes, the absolute best field hockey players do come from PA, hands down!

Yup! I think we agree on a lot from the PA perspective . I definitely have much more of a soccer to lax perspective and didnt know much about how serious FH was in PA for years. I was also surprised to find out there are fewer D1 FH programs than women's lacrosse, but that was likely just my ignorance.

And I agree with girls moving from soccer to lacrosse. The scholarship opportunities are a big incentive but so is the club schedule. Club soccer is non stop and can burn a lot of kids out by the time they're in high school - which is also an age where socialization with peers becomes more of a priority so it's a win-win-win move.

[wlaxphan20]

Is that the reason they focused on lacrosse or is it because they liked it better/found it more exciting to play?

I think this reason is going to be pretty individual for each athlete as opposed to simply finding it more exciting

[DMac]

No doubt, w'20 but these are two daughters in the same family who decided on lacrosse over soccer and I thought I could get an idea of what they were thinking. Personally, I know I wouldn't choose one sport over another because of future opportunities, I want to play the one I like the most. I was a pretty good baseball player and I really liked it but lacrosse is/was just much more fun, fast paced, and exciting. For four years in HS the baseball coach never stopped asking me when I was going to give up that sport that offers no future and come and be his catcher (despite being Captain and leading scorer of the lax team). 8'pa says this,

Lax, IMO, is just a way more exciting game and the best athletes in our area gravitated towards it and eventually away from soccer.

Again, this is the reason I was asking as this is an example X 2 who chose lacrosse over soccer (this would be an absolute no brainer, 1/4 of a second, decision for me just because of the nature of the two games) so I just wanted to see how much the "like to play it" factor came into play in the decision making.

[wlaxphan20]

No doubt, w'20 but these are two daughters in the same family who decided on lacrosse over soccer and I thought I could get an idea of what they were thinking. Personally, I know I wouldn't choose one sport over another because of future opportunities, I want to play the one I like the most. I was a pretty good baseball player and I really liked it but lacrosse is/was just much more fun, fast paced, and exciting. For four years in HS the baseball coach never stopped asking me when I was going to give up that sport that offers no future and come and be his catcher (despite being Captain and leading scorer of the lax team). 8'pa says this,

Lax, IMO, is just a way more exciting game and the best athletes in our area gravitated towards it and eventually away from soccer.

Again, this is the reason I was asking as this is an example X 2 who chose lacrosse over soccer (this would be an absolute no brainer, 1/4 of a second, decision for me just because of the nature of the two games) so I just wanted to see how much the "like to play it" factor came into play in the decision making.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I know girls that chose lacrosse over soccer because the demand of a high level club soccer team eventually led them to be burnt out after years. I had a similar experience. I think part the draw for girls that play other sports like basketball/soccer/ice hockey/field hockey is that lacrosse is also a fast game (as opposed to golf or softball). I think another part of the draw - particularly for girls that may be burnt out on another sport or have a negative experience with another sport - is that for to them, coming from burnout lacrosse is new, fresh, and exciting. Sure, the pace of the game is part of the excitement - but the fact that this is something new that captures their attention while still having similar qualities (fast-paced team sports) to sports they may have been burnt out on or simply done with. I think we're both saying the same thing about "like it more" I was just looking more at the "why".

This definitely isn't the case for all, just something I've seen personally. Just as many other's probably pick up a stick and leave sports they aren't burnt out on simply because they like lacrosse more.

Another example from the boys side, (just because I've seen it personally) is that I've seen boys start out playing t-ball and coach pitch, try lacrosse for a few years, and then switch back to baseball. Some then switch back to lacrosse after that and some stay. The lacrosse-baseball feud always made me laugh because both sports have incredible athletes, but I just think each sport appeals to a different type of kid. Also, I may be misinterpreting it, but it sounds like the baseball coach at your HS was looking out more for his own interests. I'm glad you stuck to what you wanted to do. And I'd hope many other athletes make the same choice if they are able.

[DMac]

wlaxphan20 wrote
lacrosse is new, fresh, and exciting.

The game also offers that stick which is one of the coolest things on the face of the Earth and just flat out fun to play with. Should come with a bit of a warning though as there is a high addiction factor.

[Dr. Tact]

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I know girls that chose lacrosse over soccer because the demand of a high level club soccer team eventually led them to be burnt out after years.

This is exactly what happened with my first and third. They also looked at the College paths...lacrosse was easier than Soccer

[DMac]

Question for Dr. Tact and Justalaxdad (it's a simple question I can't seem to get an answer to).
If all things were equal would your daughters have stuck with soccer rather than playing lacrosse?
Did they actually like playing soccer more than lacrosse but chose lacrosse because it was the "easier"
path (scholarship wise)?

[Justalaxdad]

Question for Dr. Tact and Justalaxdad (it's a simple question I can't seem to get an answer to).
If all things were equal would your daughters have stuck with soccer rather than playing lacrosse?

Dmac-I started to respond last night and realized it was too long winded then fell asleep. LOL

Basically - they are both uber competitive and around middle school realized they had a better chance at D1 sports through lax so that weighed heavily. My first one made the decision to make Lax her #1 during her freshman year. My youngest, seeing how well that worked out for the first one, made the decision in 8th grade. Both of them saved us a lot of money for college so I guess it worked out for us. Not saying works out for everyone. They’re both goalies and goalies seem to get more than the average athletic scholarship. Both are very good students so that obviously helps too.

[Dr. Tact]

Question for Dr. Tact and Justalaxdad (it's a simple question I can't seem to get an answer to).
If all things were equal would your daughters have stuck with soccer rather than playing lacrosse?

Dmac-I started to respond last night and realized it was too long winded then fell asleep. LOL

Basically - they are both uber competitive and around middle school realized they had a better chance at D1 sports through lax so that weighed heavily. My first one made the decision to make Lax her #1 during her freshman year. My youngest, seeing how well that worked out for the first one, made the decision in 8th grade. Both of them saved us a lot of money for college so I guess it worked out for us. Not saying works out for everyone. They’re both goalies and goalies seem to get more than the average athletic scholarship. Both are very good students so that obviously helps too.

Ditto on the above except mine are middies and not Goalies