Same Party, Different House
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Of course.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:09 amThat said, it's also an abhorrent statement by that individual. Easy to condemn.
Only a psychopath would say otherwise. And when a blatant antisemite cites a quote like this to justify, equivocate the actions of Hamas with the actions of Israel, this is also abhorrent. That was what I was reacting to.Understood.Gretchen wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:18 amOf course.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:09 amThat said, it's also an abhorrent statement by that individual. Easy to condemn.
admin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:03 amPosts supporting terrorist groups and/or condoning the acts of these terrorist groups is prohibited by the FanLax Forum. Hamas is a terrorist organization explicitly dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel. FanLax does not care if you agree or disagree with this statement. Posting links to websites that attempt to refute this fact does not change the terrorist status of these organizations any more than links to flat earth websites changes the roundness of the planet earth. Posts supporting terrorist groups including Hamas and/or condoning the acts of these terrorist groups is prohibited by the FanLax Forum and will not be tolerated.Unsportsmanlike Conduct
SECTION 4. No post-er shall:
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sheesh, it's obvious that such statements are awful. If someone on here was pointing to such statements and saying they supported those statements, agreed with them, IMO it would be a violation of (d) and should be reported as such to Admin. However, no one has done so, best I can recall.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:41 amadmin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:03 amPosts supporting terrorist groups and/or condoning the acts of these terrorist groups is prohibited by the FanLax Forum. Hamas is a terrorist organization explicitly dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel. FanLax does not care if you agree or disagree with this statement. Posting links to websites that attempt to refute this fact does not change the terrorist status of these organizations any more than links to flat earth websites changes the roundness of the planet earth. Posts supporting terrorist groups including Hamas and/or condoning the acts of these terrorist groups is prohibited by the FanLax Forum and will not be tolerated.Unsportsmanlike Conduct
SECTION 4. No post-er shall:
a. Enter into a maligning argument with an official, Admin, as to any decision that has been made.
b. Use threatening, profane or obscene language, or gestures.
c. Bait, taunt, call undue attention to oneself, or commit any other act considered unsportsmanlike by the officials. Baiting and taunting is a one-to-three-day non-releasable foul in all cases.
d. Troll and/or commit other Russian 'bot and/or other Putinesque behaviors. A troll is someone who uses over-the-top opinions or unverified claims to incite others, stir up controversy, and change a civilized discussion into a battleground.
e. post posts that promote hatred toward groups of people based on their race, ethnic origin or nationality, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity, or affiliation with any other protected group.
A point of information, if you please: I have also linked to Likud party members who made blatantly racist calls for extermination. Do these also fall within this stricture?
If this is true: why haven't Palestinians offered a two State solution?OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:48 amI agree with most of your post. However the balance is tipped heavily on the other side from what i have seen. Israel never wanted a two state solution and neither has Hamas. The Palestinians would accept one.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:40 am I have objected to the personal attack language just as I've objected to your absolutist labeling others.
Again, IMO, you're outside the bounds. Your absolutist, always anti-Israel, screeds are offensive...IMO intentionally so.
Hamas has made clear that they demand an entirely Islamic state, no Israel. They have supported that demand by killing indiscriminately as many Jews as possible, their leaders have numerous times committed them to killing all Jews in their way. And anyone else in their way.
The right wing Israeli government is committed to the preservation of Israel at all costs in the face of terror. Their policies, I believe, are not genocidal but they are abhorrent to me nevertheless as they are way too casual in their taking of innocent life in their effort to kill terrorists.
Your failure, no, your refusal, to condemn Hamas' actions are beyond the pale.
I dunno about how rigid everyone necessarily is, but I think the stakes of arguing one view versus another may regularly seem quite a bit higher on the politics threads versus most of the lax threads, though if you follow the Hopkins thread there's some pretty darn entrenched views and disagreements that can get heated.Matnum PI wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 2:18 pm Bit off topic but I don't plan to hijack this thread for long... What's strange about the politics threads (which I do not frequent so much) for me is that people arrive in the thread with a preset perspective, no matter how wrong that preset perspective is, and are not budging. Within the lacrosse threads, people have much more of a question than answer mindset, much more about growth and learning (though obviously not everyone) than an I'm-going-to-win-this-discussion mindset. This pretty accurate or am I missing something?
And when lax topics have veered into hotter potential topics they can get pretty intense...ala a critique of a longtime coach, particularly in areas of responsibility beyond the X's and O's, or perceptions of topics around gender, abuse, bigotry etc...You're missing many of us who do indeed change our minds....and are here to learn and exchange ideas.Matnum PI wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 2:18 pm Bit off topic but I don't plan to hijack this thread for long... What's strange about the politics threads (which I do not frequent so much) for me is that people arrive in the thread with a preset perspective, no matter how wrong that preset perspective is, and are not budging. Within the lacrosse threads, people have much more of a question than answer mindset, much more about growth and learning (though obviously not everyone) than an I'm-going-to-win-this-discussion mindset. This pretty accurate or am I missing something?
That's part of it. The other part is: Americans tend to be VERY tribal....which makes the tribe membership of the messenger more important than the message for most. And most folks don't notice that these tribes frequently have nothing to do with gender or race or religion. Especially so in small towns.
Yup. Irgun, Stern Gang and Haganah seem to have been removed from history. They are now called IDF -- historical fact. The various paramilitary organizations, all of which, to varying degrees employed terror tactics, formed the first recognized Israeli military after statehood. Israel has elected leading members of these organizations as their Prime Ministers, well known with blood on their hands before being elected.OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:48 amI agree with most of your post. However the balance is tipped heavily on the other side from what i have seen. Israel never wanted a two state solution and neither has Hamas. The Palestinians would accept one. The ahistorical posts that ignore the reality of events since the late 1940s is amazing to me. Both sides have used terror. Both sides have killed a lot of innocent civilians to achieve their goal. History here is important to knowMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:40 am I have objected to the personal attack language just as I've objected to your absolutist labeling others.
Again, IMO, you're outside the bounds. Your absolutist, always anti-Israel, screeds are offensive...IMO intentionally so.
Hamas has made clear that they demand an entirely Islamic state, no Israel. They have supported that demand by killing indiscriminately as many Jews as possible, their leaders have numerous times committed them to killing all Jews in their way. And anyone else in their way.
The right wing Israeli government is committed to the preservation of Israel at all costs in the face of terror. Their policies, I believe, are not genocidal but they are abhorrent to me nevertheless as they are way too casual in their taking of innocent life in their effort to kill terrorists.
Your failure, no, your refusal, to condemn Hamas' actions are beyond the pale.
No one is claiming to be an angel. No one is claiming the other is pure evil. What was pointed at is Hamas being anything but a terrorist organization and that Israel has never wanted a two-state solution. Both inaccurate.
... while not absolutely true, there have been periods where the majority of the nation seemed to be inclined toward peace. But if you take an average citizen opinion over time, the majority has been less inclined towards two state and peace! The right wing in Israel has owned the space since they assassinated Simon Perez. They have been absolutely opposed to two states or anything that would have them share space with Palestinians.
The right wing, yes, but that's like saying that the US has always favored segregation...not everyone, not for a very long time.jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:22 pm... while not absolutely true, there have been periods where the majority of the nation seemed to be inclined toward peace. But if you take an average citizen opinion over time, the majority has been less inclined towards two state and peace! The right wing in Israel has owned the space since they assassinated Simon Perez. They have been absolutely opposed to two states or anything that would have them share space with Palestinians.
They want peace in the sense that they want to not be bombed. The majority gave up caring whether the Palestinians had peace. I equate a desire for real "peace" with a willingness to accept the "two state solution". It has been decades since a majority were willing to pursue the two state solution. Militant Muslims, Palestinians and others, wore the Israeli liberals (Palestinians' best hope) down to the point that the difference between left and right on this issue was nonexistent. I have said before, the left in Israel surrendered to the right on this issue.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:33 pmThe right wing, yes, but that's like saying that the US has always favored segregation...not everyone, not for a very long time.jhu72 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:22 pm... while not absolutely true, there have been periods where the majority of the nation seemed to be inclined toward peace. But if you take an average citizen opinion over time, the majority has been less inclined towards two state and peace! The right wing in Israel has owned the space since they assassinated Simon Perez. They have been absolutely opposed to two states or anything that would have them share space with Palestinians.
My sense is that most Israelis want "peace" but they have differing views as to what is required to achieve and to maintain "peace" and what they are willing to accept short of perfect peace.
This. Agree completely. Obviously, this has NOT helped.