Trump's Russian Collusion

[Trinity]

Daily reminder that Trump’s still in a joint defense agreement with Manafort and 30+ others. He’s seeing what Mueller is filing.

[MDlaxfan76]

Daily reminder that Trump’s still in a joint defense agreement with Manafort and 30+ others. He’s seeing what Mueller is filing.

Rudy just said that he's seen what Corsi is about to plead to. It was "leaked" to him...

[Typical Lax Dad]

More from the Post on the interactions between the Buzzfeed News people and the SCO:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... e77dfbb889

"After Carr declined to comment to BuzzFeed, but before the story was published, he sent reporter Jason Leopold a partial transcript of Cohen’s plea hearing, in which Cohen admitted lying to Congress about the timing of discussions related to a possible Trump Tower project in Moscow, according to the emails BuzzFeed’s spokesman provided. Cohen had claimed falsely that the company’s effort to build the tower ended in January 2016, when in fact discussions continued through June of that year, as Trump was clinching the Republican nomination for president.

“I made these misstatements to be consistent with Individual 1’s political messaging and out of loyalty to Individual 1,” Cohen said at his plea hearing late last year, using the term “Individual 1” to refer to Trump.

....

Carr, people familiar with the matter said, hoped Leopold would notice that Cohen had not said during the hearing that Trump had explicitly directed him to lie. But Leopold, who co-authored the story with reporter Anthony Cormier, told the spokesman he was not taking any signals, and Carr acknowledged the point.

“I am not reading into what you sent and have interpreted it as an FYI,” Leopold wrote.

“Correct, just an FYI,” Carr responded.

A person inside the Trump Organization said a BuzzFeed reporter also talked with a lawyer for the organization hours before the story posted and was warned that the story was flawed and should be scrutinized further. Mittenthal said, “We trust our sources over the organization still run by Donald Trump’s family. That organization is directly implicated in the allegations related to the Trump Tower Moscow project, and refused to speak on the record for our story.”

The language Cohen and his representatives used in court had been ambiguous. Cohen had pleaded guilty in two cases — one for lying to Congress about the Moscow project, and another involving campaign finance violations for hush-money payments to women who had alleged affairs with Trump.

While neither Cohen nor his representatives had ever said explicitly that Trump directed Cohen to lie to Congress, Guy Petrillo, Cohen’s attorney, wrote in a memo in advance of his sentencing, “We address the campaign finance and false statements allegations together because both arose from Michael’s fierce loyalty to Client-1. In each case, the conduct was intended to benefit Client-1, in accordance with Client-1’s directives.”

Client-1 refers to Trump. Petrillo declined to comment Saturday. It is unclear precisely what “directives” Petrillo was referring to, though he did not allege elsewhere in the memo that Trump explicitly instructed Cohen to lie to Congress. He wrote that Cohen was “in close and regular contact with White House-based staff and legal counsel to Client-1” as he prepared his testimony and “specifically knew . . . that Client-1 and his public spokespersons were seeking to portray contact with Russian representatives in any form by Client-1, the Campaign or the Trump Organization as having effectively terminated before the Iowa caucuses of February 1, 2016.”

People familiar with the matter said after BuzzFeed published its story — which was attributed to “two federal law enforcement officials involved in an investigation of the matter” — the special counsel’s office reviewed evidence to determine if there were any documents or witness interviews like those described, reaching out to those they thought might have a stake in the case.

They found none, these people said. That, the people said, is in part why it took Mueller’s office nearly a day to dispute the story publicly. In the interim, cable news outlets and other media organizations, including The Washington Post, dissected its possible implications — even as their reporters were unable to independently confirm it.

Told of the special counsel’s failure to find support for the story, Mittenthal, the BuzzFeed spokesman, said, “Our high-level law enforcement sources, who have helped corroborate months of accurate reporting on the Trump Tower Moscow deal and its aftermath, have told us otherwise. We look forward to further clarification from the Special Counsel in the near future.”

Two people familiar with the matter said lawyers at the special counsel’s office discussed the statement internally, rather than conferring with Justice Department leaders, for much of the day. In the advanced stages of those talks, the deputy attorney general’s office called to inquire if the special counsel planned any kind of response, and was informed a statement was being prepared, the people said.

Around 7:30 p.m. Friday, Carr distributed it to numerous media outlets via email.

“BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate,” he wrote.

People familiar with the matter said the special counsel’s office meant the statement to be a denial of the central theses of the BuzzFeed story — particularly those that referenced what Cohen had told the special counsel, and what evidence the special counsel had gathered.

BuzzFeed, though, asserted that the language was not specific about what was being contested.

“We stand by our reporting and the sources who informed it, and we urge the Special Counsel to make clear what he’s disputing,” BuzzFeed editor Ben Smith said in response to the special counsel's statement.

Cohen has not addressed BuzzFeed’s reporting, and BuzzFeed has made clear he was not a source for its story. Lanny J. Davis, a legal and communications adviser to Cohen, said before the special counsel statement was issued, “Out of respect for Mr. Mueller’s and the Office of Special Counsel’s investigation, Mr. Cohen declined to respond to the questions asked by the reporters and so do I.” He declined to address it after the special counsel’s office released the statement."

Seems to me that ggait's musings earlier in this thread are probably right: the SCO let everyone know that the reporting, whatever it was, didn't come from its people.

After a few "gotcha emails" from a buddy.... I asked him if he knew that the Cohen matter was principally a SDNY matter versus a SC matter and of course he didn't..... we will see where it goes.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Mueller statement is very "lawyerish" - it doesn't really say what they are disputing. Buzzfeed is standing by their story: https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/ ... 2921287680

I would imagine there are a few discrepancies here and there, the Mueller response seems more like "you don't have all the information" rather than "you're completely wrong". They're covering their bases.

A "few discrepancies" would not have led to Muellers folks making a very rare announcement that the Buzzfeed article was incorrect. IMO there are only one of 2 possibilities. The buzzfeed article was complete sheepdip or the buzzfeed article was a little to close to the truth for Mueller to just let slide. The huge amount of misinformation about this entire sordid affair makes it imperative for Mueller to come up with some sort of preliminary findings ASAP. Every FLP in the nation will be required to have a paper bag with them at all times so they don't hyperventilate with each new knowledge of impropriety by DJT. Yesterday, Trump was going to be impeached for suborning perjury. All I read today from the TDS folks is... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit. To paraphrase Buford T Justice... when we gonna git this summabeach. bang1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3c64j2DPE I had to laugh when I watched this clip. " what we have here is a total lack of respect for the law" Sheriff Buford T Justice.

The latter part of your post, cradle, made me chuckle.

Folks did get out too far out over their skis a day ago.
Backpedaling fast.

I doubt, however, that the Buzzfeed reporting was "sheepdip", complete or mostly. But their sources apparently got some aspects wrong in their "characterization". Could be how the Mueller team's information and view of that information was characterized, as opposed to SDNY's take on that same information. Who told what to whom and when could be garbled, without the overall being incorrect. Buzzfeed has been way out front, repeatedly alone, in their reporting on the Moscow Trump Tower, and the bulk of what they have been alone on has later been corroborated as accurate.

So, "stay tuned".

I tend to agree with you MD. IMO buzzfeed may have gotten a little too close for comfort. I still don't understand that as close as Mueller has played his hand to his vest that he would have chosen this item from buzzfeed to break his silence and comment. There had to be a reason Mueller made this public comment. Whatever the reason the folks at buzzfeed are crapping their pants right now. If you want to lose all of the credibility you have as a journalistic organization this is your worst nightmare come to life. You could not possibly backtrack far enough to regain any amount of credibility anymore. You now become a lesser version of the National Enquirer. Those anonymous sources can sure come back to bite you in the ass.

The comparison to the National Enquirer is entirely specious. Full stop.

Yet it's interesting that so quickly became a right wing talking point, repeated here by Salty and you.
"Fake News" as applied to the free press is itself a specious claim...made by those who, as a knowing practice, lie and propagandize daily.

Journalism gets things wrong, however it is self-examining and self-correcting. But they do get things wrong.
And sometimes a writer not only gets something wrong, they make things up out of whole cloth or plagiarize. In those instances, the industry comes down on them like a ton of bricks. Why? Because credibility is actually important to them.

The National Enquirer, on the other hand, knows that their stories are false on their face. No concern for truth in the slightest. And the more outrageous the lie, the better. It is not a journalistic endeavor.

I do agree that Buzzfeed's credibility has suffered damage, at least in this moment.

But we don't know yet what they actually got wrong, or their sources got wrong.

But when it becomes clear what they got wrong, I think we can be confident that they will report their error. Including even the most embarrassing errors, as appropriate.

It's important to note, however, that they have on multiple occasions been far ahead of other reporting, dismissed by others at first, only to be proven to have been accurate or largely so, in their original reporting.

If they made errors in this reporting, serious errors, it is most likely that some hubris was involved, an over-confidence in their sources' information, having successfully reported stories previously based on those sources.

But we don't know yet.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Correctionions and retraction to news articles are made daily. There is a difference between an error and fabrication. The newspaper makes a mistake, holy hell to pay.....politicians lying everyday.... no big deal.

https://www.nytimes.com/section/corrections

[cradleandshoot]

The Mueller statement is very "lawyerish" - it doesn't really say what they are disputing. Buzzfeed is standing by their story: https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/ ... 2921287680

I would imagine there are a few discrepancies here and there, the Mueller response seems more like "you don't have all the information" rather than "you're completely wrong". They're covering their bases.

A "few discrepancies" would not have led to Muellers folks making a very rare announcement that the Buzzfeed article was incorrect. IMO there are only one of 2 possibilities. The buzzfeed article was complete sheepdip or the buzzfeed article was a little to close to the truth for Mueller to just let slide. The huge amount of misinformation about this entire sordid affair makes it imperative for Mueller to come up with some sort of preliminary findings ASAP. Every FLP in the nation will be required to have a paper bag with them at all times so they don't hyperventilate with each new knowledge of impropriety by DJT. Yesterday, Trump was going to be impeached for suborning perjury. All I read today from the TDS folks is... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit. To paraphrase Buford T Justice... when we gonna git this summabeach. bang1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3c64j2DPE I had to laugh when I watched this clip. " what we have here is a total lack of respect for the law" Sheriff Buford T Justice.

The latter part of your post, cradle, made me chuckle.

Folks did get out too far out over their skis a day ago.
Backpedaling fast.

I doubt, however, that the Buzzfeed reporting was "sheepdip", complete or mostly. But their sources apparently got some aspects wrong in their "characterization". Could be how the Mueller team's information and view of that information was characterized, as opposed to SDNY's take on that same information. Who told what to whom and when could be garbled, without the overall being incorrect. Buzzfeed has been way out front, repeatedly alone, in their reporting on the Moscow Trump Tower, and the bulk of what they have been alone on has later been corroborated as accurate.

So, "stay tuned".

I tend to agree with you MD. IMO buzzfeed may have gotten a little too close for comfort. I still don't understand that as close as Mueller has played his hand to his vest that he would have chosen this item from buzzfeed to break his silence and comment. There had to be a reason Mueller made this public comment. Whatever the reason the folks at buzzfeed are crapping their pants right now. If you want to lose all of the credibility you have as a journalistic organization this is your worst nightmare come to life. You could not possibly backtrack far enough to regain any amount of credibility anymore. You now become a lesser version of the National Enquirer. Those anonymous sources can sure come back to bite you in the ass.

The comparison to the National Enquirer is entirely specious. Full stop.

Yet it's interesting that so quickly became a right wing talking point, repeated here by Salty and you.
"Fake News" as applied to the free press is itself a specious claim...made by those who, as a knowing practice, lie and propagandize daily.

Journalism gets things wrong, however it is self-examining and self-correcting. But they do get things wrong.
And sometimes a writer not only gets something wrong, they make things up out of whole cloth or plagiarize. In those instances, the industry comes down on them like a ton of bricks. Why? Because credibility is actually important to them.

The National Enquirer, on the other hand, knows that their stories are false on their face. No concern for truth in the slightest. And the more outrageous the lie, the better. It is not a journalistic endeavor.

I do agree that Buzzfeed's credibility has suffered damage, at least in this moment.

But we don't know yet what they actually got wrong, or their sources got wrong.

But when it becomes clear what they got wrong, I think we can be confident that they will report their error. Including even the most embarrassing errors, as appropriate.

It's important to note, however, that they have on multiple occasions been far ahead of other reporting, dismissed by others at first, only to be proven to have been accurate or largely so, in their original reporting.

If they made errors in this reporting, serious errors, it is most likely that some hubris was involved, an over-confidence in their sources' information, having successfully reported stories previously based on those sources.

But we don't know yet.

If your the folks at Buzzfeed and you are going to make such a serious accusation against a sitting POTUS you had damn well be 100% certain you have all of your ducks in a row. This is not a matter of a minor mistake this could be FUBAR for the folks at Buzzfeed if they got this wrong. That being said they are standing by their sources. Good thing they are anonymous sources because if their identities were made public if they are still active in law enforcement they wouldn't be for long. If it washes out in the end that the folks at Buzzfeed screwed this up then they will sit shoulder to shoulder with the folks at the National Enquirer. It is easy to laugh at anything the NE prints. This is the type of screwup if that is what it is that can destroy your credibility as any type of news organization forever.

[MDlaxfan76]

The Mueller statement is very "lawyerish" - it doesn't really say what they are disputing. Buzzfeed is standing by their story: https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/ ... 2921287680

I would imagine there are a few discrepancies here and there, the Mueller response seems more like "you don't have all the information" rather than "you're completely wrong". They're covering their bases.

A "few discrepancies" would not have led to Muellers folks making a very rare announcement that the Buzzfeed article was incorrect. IMO there are only one of 2 possibilities. The buzzfeed article was complete sheepdip or the buzzfeed article was a little to close to the truth for Mueller to just let slide. The huge amount of misinformation about this entire sordid affair makes it imperative for Mueller to come up with some sort of preliminary findings ASAP. Every FLP in the nation will be required to have a paper bag with them at all times so they don't hyperventilate with each new knowledge of impropriety by DJT. Yesterday, Trump was going to be impeached for suborning perjury. All I read today from the TDS folks is... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit... dammit. To paraphrase Buford T Justice... when we gonna git this summabeach. bang1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN3c64j2DPE I had to laugh when I watched this clip. " what we have here is a total lack of respect for the law" Sheriff Buford T Justice.

The latter part of your post, cradle, made me chuckle.

Folks did get out too far out over their skis a day ago.
Backpedaling fast.

I doubt, however, that the Buzzfeed reporting was "sheepdip", complete or mostly. But their sources apparently got some aspects wrong in their "characterization". Could be how the Mueller team's information and view of that information was characterized, as opposed to SDNY's take on that same information. Who told what to whom and when could be garbled, without the overall being incorrect. Buzzfeed has been way out front, repeatedly alone, in their reporting on the Moscow Trump Tower, and the bulk of what they have been alone on has later been corroborated as accurate.

So, "stay tuned".

I tend to agree with you MD. IMO buzzfeed may have gotten a little too close for comfort. I still don't understand that as close as Mueller has played his hand to his vest that he would have chosen this item from buzzfeed to break his silence and comment. There had to be a reason Mueller made this public comment. Whatever the reason the folks at buzzfeed are crapping their pants right now. If you want to lose all of the credibility you have as a journalistic organization this is your worst nightmare come to life. You could not possibly backtrack far enough to regain any amount of credibility anymore. You now become a lesser version of the National Enquirer. Those anonymous sources can sure come back to bite you in the ass.

The comparison to the National Enquirer is entirely specious. Full stop.

Yet it's interesting that so quickly became a right wing talking point, repeated here by Salty and you.
"Fake News" as applied to the free press is itself a specious claim...made by those who, as a knowing practice, lie and propagandize daily.

Journalism gets things wrong, however it is self-examining and self-correcting. But they do get things wrong.
And sometimes a writer not only gets something wrong, they make things up out of whole cloth or plagiarize. In those instances, the industry comes down on them like a ton of bricks. Why? Because credibility is actually important to them.

The National Enquirer, on the other hand, knows that their stories are false on their face. No concern for truth in the slightest. And the more outrageous the lie, the better. It is not a journalistic endeavor.

I do agree that Buzzfeed's credibility has suffered damage, at least in this moment.

But we don't know yet what they actually got wrong, or their sources got wrong.

But when it becomes clear what they got wrong, I think we can be confident that they will report their error. Including even the most embarrassing errors, as appropriate.

It's important to note, however, that they have on multiple occasions been far ahead of other reporting, dismissed by others at first, only to be proven to have been accurate or largely so, in their original reporting.

If they made errors in this reporting, serious errors, it is most likely that some hubris was involved, an over-confidence in their sources' information, having successfully reported stories previously based on those sources.

But we don't know yet.

If your the folks at Buzzfeed and you are going to make such a serious accusation against a sitting POTUS you had damn well be 100% certain you have all of your ducks in a row. This is not a matter of a minor mistake this could be FUBAR for the folks at Buzzfeed if they got this wrong. That being said they are standing by their sources. Good thing they are anonymous sources because if their identities were made public if they are still active in law enforcement they wouldn't be for long. If it washes out in the end that the folks at Buzzfeed screwed this up then they will sit shoulder to shoulder with the folks at the National Enquirer. It is easy to laugh at anything the NE prints. This is the type of screwup if that is what it is that can destroy your credibility as any type of news organization forever.

I repeat, the comparison is on its face specious.

The National Enquirer knowingly lies and fabricates in every issue.

Are you suggesting that's equivalent to getting something wrong, unintentionally, and then correcting it when they learn they were wrong?

If so, you've lost me.

[cradleandshoot]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'd also suggest that what we may ultimately learn is that the SDNY (the likely Buzzfeed sourcing) has a credible basis to believe that Cohen believed he'd been 'directed' by Trump to lie to Congress that the Trump Tower Moscow negotiations had ended far before they actually had ended.

But that the Mueller team is not yet ready to present such a charge.

The Mueller team may object to the word 'directed' as if Trump said, "Michael, lie to Congress for me."

Instead what may well have happened is that Cohen told Trump and/or other family members and/or Trump lawyers exactly what he was going to testify to as to the timing, and he was led to believe, either by Trump himself or those close to Trump, that Trump knew full well that was inaccurate (a lie) and was pleased by what Cohen was saying, and has lots of documentary proof that Trump and other family members were aware of the actual truth.

So, "characterization", from the Mueller perspective.

Rudy today dissembled saying that the interactions with the Russians may well have continued even through to November, but Trump doesn't recall exactly when or why the discussions stopped in 2016. He was too busy running for President to pay attention to such small matters. The documentation may well prove otherwise.

But Rudy's position is that just because there were discussions of a potential huge deal for a tower in Moscow, Trump was never lying to the American public when he said he had no business dealings with Russians. According to Rudy, a proposed deal with legal papers and financing (with a Putin-connected Russian bank under sanctions) doesn't constitute business dealings. Just a "proposal". And not disclosing such wasn't lying.

Hmmm, would the voting public have cared had they know the truth?

[MDlaxfan76]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Sure, if you limit your critique to this would be epically embarrassing if they got it 100% wrong, or even substantially wrong, we agree wholeheartedly.

But the reason it would be embarrassing is that they actually intend to report truthfully.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Cradle, I missed it. Can you post the link that quotes SC office indicating that the story is false? I want to draw my own conclusion. Thanks. That's big news. Can't believe I missed it. Just one or two quotes which indicate Cohen was not instructed to lie.

[cradleandshoot]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Sure, if you limit your critique to this would be epically embarrassing if they got it 100% wrong, or even substantially wrong, we agree wholeheartedly.

But the reason it would be embarrassing is that they actually intend to report truthfully.

A true hard fact of life is that folks ( especially your boss) are not going to judge you by your intentions, you will be judged by your results

[cradleandshoot]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Sure, if you limit your critique to this would be epically embarrassing if they got it 100% wrong, or even substantially wrong, we agree wholeheartedly.

But the reason it would be embarrassing is that they actually intend to report truthfully.

A true hard fact of life is that folks ( especially your boss) are not going to judge you by your intentions, you will be judged by your results

[seacoaster]

"BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the special counsel’s office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate."

Is this simply an issue of inaccurate attribution?

[cradleandshoot]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Cradle, I missed it. Can you post the link that quotes SC office indicating that the story is false? I want to draw my own conclusion. Thanks. That's big news. Can't believe I missed it. Just one or two quotes which indicate Cohen was not instructed to lie.

The devil is always in the detail. I have no idea what Trump did or did not ask Cohen to do. Given what we know about Trump it is certainly in his wheel house of what he is capable of doing. The problem is how does Mueller corroborate what Cohen is telling him? I don't think Trump is stupid enough to ask him to lie in front of any other person. Unless Cohen had that tape recorder going in his pocket it revolves back to he said/he said. Cohen is a skeevie enough character to say anything to save his own bacon. He could easily be telling the truth here. As with all crooks how do you differentiate the truth from the lies in anything they tell you?

[cradleandshoot]

"BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the special counsel’s office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate."

Is this simply an issue of inaccurate attribution?

It could very well be. Given the stone cold silence on everything about his investigation Mueller chose this story from Buzzfeed as having a certain degree of relevance about something going on here that he felt compelled to have to say something about it. It makes for great intrigue in trying to figure it out. When this entire sordid affair is put to bed there has to be an epic movie to be made about this mess of a Presidency. Hollywood will be chomping at the bit to put this one on the big screen.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Cradle, I missed it. Can you post the link that quotes SC office indicating that the story is false? I want to draw my own conclusion. Thanks. That's big news. Can't believe I missed it. Just one or two quotes which indicate Cohen was not instructed to lie.

The devil is always in the detail. I have no idea what Trump did or did not ask Cohen to do. Given what we know about Trump it is certainly in his wheel house of what he is capable of doing. The problem is how does Mueller corroborate what Cohen is telling him? I don't think Trump is stupid enough to ask him to lie in front of any other person. Unless Cohen had that tape recorder going in his pocket it revolves back to he said/he said. Cohen is a skeevie enough character to say anything to save his own bacon. He could easily be telling the truth here. As with all crooks how do you differentiate the truth from the lies in anything they tell you?

I am not asking you what Trump asked Cohen to do. Did SDNY also come out and say that the story is false? Wow, MSM got this all wrong. I imagine SC and SDNY have shed a light on this fabricated story. You got a link I can read?

[MDlaxfan76]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Cradle, I missed it. Can you post the link that quotes SC office indicating that the story is false? I want to draw my own conclusion. Thanks. That's big news. Can't believe I missed it. Just one or two quotes which indicate Cohen was not instructed to lie.

The devil is always in the detail. I have no idea what Trump did or did not ask Cohen to do. Given what we know about Trump it is certainly in his wheel house of what he is capable of doing. The problem is how does Mueller corroborate what Cohen is telling him? I don't think Trump is stupid enough to ask him to lie in front of any other person. Unless Cohen had that tape recorder going in his pocket it revolves back to he said/he said. Cohen is a skeevie enough character to say anything to save his own bacon. He could easily be telling the truth here. As with all crooks how do you differentiate the truth from the lies in anything they tell you?

Yup, sometimes the truth is darn hard to prove beyond any reasonable doubt. I'm glad that's the sort of standard Mueller follows.
Indeed, Mueller prefers an overwhelming paper trail, or at least that's what we've seen in each charging so far.

I suspect that Cohen has documentary evidence that he coordinated his story with Trump's counsel, and he may have documentary evidence with one or more of the Trumpkins. Harder with Trump himself, but he may have contemporaneous communications documenting that he spoke directly with Trump or others had and Cohen's version of timing was approved by Trump.

Or it may fall just short of that.

He'll also have such documentary proof that Trump knew about the ongoing discussions through 2016, ie he knew Cohen's testimony to Congress would be, or was, false. That Trump did indeed know about the ongoing efforts and negotiations through 2016 is the really big deal, as that reality is the direct basis of kompromat. Trump knew, but didn't want the voters to know, this truth. Who else knew? Well, Vlad.

How much of a paper trail exists remains to be seen. But Mueller's team has already made clear there's a paper trail showing that the deal continued far longer, and with knowledge of such by multiple Trumps, than Cohen had testified to to Congress. None of them corrected that record with Congress. Sounds like Don Jr may have repeated the same lie.

Sounds like Corsi and Stone may be the next indictments and/or plea agreements, those going further to the coordination of Wikileaks releases that has been speculated was one element of the 'collusion' efforts between the campaign and Russians.

I think indictments of Trump family members will be last.

[cradleandshoot]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Cradle, I missed it. Can you post the link that quotes SC office indicating that the story is false? I want to draw my own conclusion. Thanks. That's big news. Can't believe I missed it. Just one or two quotes which indicate Cohen was not instructed to lie.

The devil is always in the detail. I have no idea what Trump did or did not ask Cohen to do. Given what we know about Trump it is certainly in his wheel house of what he is capable of doing. The problem is how does Mueller corroborate what Cohen is telling him? I don't think Trump is stupid enough to ask him to lie in front of any other person. Unless Cohen had that tape recorder going in his pocket it revolves back to he said/he said. Cohen is a skeevie enough character to say anything to save his own bacon. He could easily be telling the truth here. As with all crooks how do you differentiate the truth from the lies in anything they tell you?

I am not asking you what Trump asked Cohen to do. Did SDNY also come out and say that the story is false? Wow, MSM got this all wrong. I imagine SC and SDNY have shed a light on this fabricated story. You got a link I can read?

The SDNY wants to see Trump strung up by his balls and given the same treatment that Mussolini received. I understand as a non New Yorker you can't fathom the contempt these people have for Trump. Though many of these same hypocrites gladly cashed DJT campaign checks for years. If you think Trump will be given a fair shake from this rabid bunch of jackals at the SDNY then you just don't understand how justice works in NYS. That contemptable and corrupt pile of cow manure that disguises himself as Andy Cuomo just was re-elected for 4 more years to finish destroying the state. He is every bit as corrupt as DJT could ever be. As a non New Yorker this is one of those times you should just STFU and go with what you know about your own state. Your entire point is asinine... this entire issue revolves around what Trump may have asked Cohen to do and how it can be proven. This is not a difficult concept to understand. The first step involves pulling your head out of a very dark and unsanitary location. Have a wonderful day...

[Typical Lax Dad]

What I am saying is that this is the type of accusation you can't possibly afford to get wrong. If you are going to make a direct accusation that DJT suborned perjury and make it a national news story you have stepped into the abyss. This ain't your run of the mill Trump Russian collusion story of which there are at least 1000 of out there in different variations. This puts your organization in the world series of major league eff ups if you got this one wrong. They are sticking by their story there is a chance they are right. For their sake they had better be. You can't redact and apologize your way out of this. There is an even worse fate if these people wind up having to apologize to Trump. That would be the ultimate humiliation for them to have to go through.

Cradle, I missed it. Can you post the link that quotes SC office indicating that the story is false? I want to draw my own conclusion. Thanks. That's big news. Can't believe I missed it. Just one or two quotes which indicate Cohen was not instructed to lie.

The devil is always in the detail. I have no idea what Trump did or did not ask Cohen to do. Given what we know about Trump it is certainly in his wheel house of what he is capable of doing. The problem is how does Mueller corroborate what Cohen is telling him? I don't think Trump is stupid enough to ask him to lie in front of any other person. Unless Cohen had that tape recorder going in his pocket it revolves back to he said/he said. Cohen is a skeevie enough character to say anything to save his own bacon. He could easily be telling the truth here. As with all crooks how do you differentiate the truth from the lies in anything they tell you?

I am not asking you what Trump asked Cohen to do. Did SDNY also come out and say that the story is false? Wow, MSM got this all wrong. I imagine SC and SDNY have shed a light on this fabricated story. You got a link I can read?

The SDNY wants to see Trump strung up by his balls and given the same treatment that Mussolini received. I understand as a non New Yorker you can't fathom the contempt these people have for Trump. Though many of these same hypocrites gladly cashed DJT campaign checks for years. If you think Trump will be given a fair shake from this rabid bunch of jackals at the SDNY then you just don't understand how justice works in NYS. That contemptable and corrupt pile of cow manure that disguises himself as Andy Cuomo just was re-elected for 4 more years to finish destroying the state. He is every bit as corrupt as DJT could ever be. As a non New Yorker this is one of those times you should just STFU and go with what you know about your own state. Your entire point is asinine... this entire issue revolves around what Trump may have asked Cohen to do and how it can be proven. This is not a difficult concept to understand. The first step involves pulling your head out of a very dark and unsanitary location. Have a wonderful day...

So SDNY is going to frame Trump? .......Thank god Cuomo can only ruin NYS and not USA.....Btw, which of those SDNY prosecutors was Donald Trump making campaign contributions to?

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/s ... crats-and/