THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[viper]

They did get Ryan Brown's 'brother. Ohio State has done a great job in-state but also in Canada (LeClaire, Reid, Inacio)—guys Petro probably never met. Malone was going D3 before he switched to PSU, was he not? Will concede Ament, Arceri, O'Keefe were most likely on Petro's radar but who knows if any were up for the academic rigors of Hopkins.

With all due respect to Jason, he is not his brother as indicated by how much field time he is seeing at Michigan (2 games started and 5 goals over 9 games total). In addition, based on the fact that he was at Army Prep for a year after Calvert Hall, I would question whether he had the academic credentials to get into Hopkins. At Calvert Hall he was very one dimensional with a strong 12 yard shot (can't remember if it was right or left) from a few yards above GLE and that's about it. As such I doubt he was ever on Petro's radar.

Despite getting Kevin Huntley, Phil Castronova and Ryan Brown, and a few others (and having Dave Huntley coaching there) CHC has not been a real source of players for Hop. Keep in mind that there is a strong connection between CHC and Carolina (Joe Bresci was an asst coach on the UNC Championship team that Bryan Kelly played) and it seems that half the kids playing at CHC are Kelly family members!!! Bresci also started the OSU - CHC connection when he was at OSU and Travis Crane (asst coach at OSU) is only 2 years removed from coaching at CHC.

Maybe things will change with Tinney now at CHC, only time will tell.

[viper]

So do you figure with all the munchkins with short little legs, ERs playing below expectations, should be starters sitting on the bench, and lousy coaches, the Maryland game is a bust or does the Hop have a shot?

I would not be surprised if HOP pulls an upset vs Terps

This is why is see it as coaching and Petro needs to go or make some changes. The common theme has been munchkin middies... So why not in the third vs Penn State and the game was out of hand start sprinkling in those freshman middies? What harm could it have done? Meaningful runs against a very good defense. Instead, the last 3 minutes against the twos.

How many of those players are disenchanted and are looking to transfer...

Benson calls the shots on offense, not Petro. Petro is pretty much hands off these days in that regard. Dave is a very different coach from the coach he was in the previous decade. He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Which is exactly why I believe that Nads won't come home...why make an already challenging job even more so, just for money.

Heard an anecdote about Petro and an incoming keeper. He told the kid (in so many words) that if they win, he is a genius and you are the best goalie in the world. If we lose, he is an idiot and you as the keeper suck. Spot on....

Don't count out Nad's if he gets an offer just yet...........

[DocBarrister]

He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Simple question to your point: if you were a top notch Head Coach, would you uproot your family and leave a cushy six figure job at another top University to coach at Hopkins?

For me? Not a chance. You're on an egg timer before you arrive on campus.

Tambroni, on the other hand? 9 seasons, zero NCAA playoff wins. Anyone think he's on the hot seat? Me neither. Why leave that situation to come to Hopkins where the most likely (as in, greater than 50%) result is that you won't last past your five year contract.

Food for thought. We don't just have parity for players....we have it for coaches, too.

Reasonable points, but here’s food for thought ...

... most top head lacrosse coaches were fierce competitors in their playing days and are fierce competitors now. It’s why they win.

Those kinds of people SEEK tough challenges, they don’t avoid them.

The pressure to succeed at Johns Hopkins is a selling point of the program, not a deterrence.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

So do you figure with all the munchkins with short little legs, ERs playing below expectations, should be starters sitting on the bench, and lousy coaches, the Maryland game is a bust or does the Hop have a shot?

I would not be surprised if HOP pulls an upset vs Terps

This is why is see it as coaching and Petro needs to go or make some changes. The common theme has been munchkin middies... So why not in the third vs Penn State and the game was out of hand start sprinkling in those freshman middies? What harm could it have done? Meaningful runs against a very good defense. Instead, the last 3 minutes against the twos.

How many of those players are disenchanted and are looking to transfer...

Benson calls the shots on offense, not Petro. Petro is pretty much hands off these days in that regard. Dave is a very different coach from the coach he was in the previous decade. He has been the most closely scrutinized and critiqued coach in the game - ever - with the possible exception of Starsia. You don't believe this - look at the page count on this forum compared to all others - its not purely Hopkins fans driving this. I am not going to go into the details on this forum, but anyone who has been around this game as an adult for the past 40 or 50 years and invested in Hopkins lacrosse will understand fully this statement. He has had an impossible job - far harder job than most of his lacrosse peers. That needs to change, or no matter who the coach is, he will have little success, and it will be short lived at best.

Which is exactly why I believe that Nads won't come home...why make an already challenging job even more so, just for money.

Heard an anecdote about Petro and an incoming keeper. He told the kid (in so many words) that if they win, he is a genius and you are the best goalie in the world. If we lose, he is an idiot and you as the keeper suck. Spot on....

Don't count out Nad's if he gets an offer just yet...........

These kinds of decisions are never as simple as they seem. A lot goes into a major career decision.

Having said that ...

... if it ever comes to pass that Coach Nadalen is offered the Hopkins job, I suspect he would show up in the Hopkins AD office with pen in hand even before the call is done.

DocBarrister

[a fan]

... most top head lacrosse coaches were fierce competitors in their playing days and are fierce competitors now. It’s why they win.

Those kinds of people SEEK tough challenges, they don’t avoid them.

....and in their playing days, they didn't have a family to support.

Perusing the list of the "top" head coaches in D1, my money is on a young top assistant getting the call.

We'll find out soon enough. Appreciate the discussion....

[51percentcorn]

Where exactly is this pressure coming from? When I think of coaching pressure I think of somebody like the coach of Nebraska football. When the Cornhuskers play in Lincoln the stadium used to be the third largest city in the state. Now they are getting worked by alot of Big 10 schools and the current coach has to hear about DeVaney/Osborne and he has to worry about the mind boggling amount of revenue that is at stake and that the school depends on. No one is buying Nebraska jerseys if they are getting beat by Ohio State 55-0 - less people are driving hours to go see un- competitive games. THAT'S PRESSURE. I think we all overestimate the importance of the sport even at the school with the most historical ties to the sport. Nobody writes about this stuff on a national level - not really even at a local level - it's just us yahoos on a forum. The Sun - who should write about it - showed about as much interest in Hopkins getting shellacked by Penn State as the local 4H fair. IL was crickets as far as Hopkins goes - it was all about the Nittany Lions (deservedly so) - reading the article except for the first sentence PSU could have dope slapped Detroit Mercy as much as Johns Hopkins. I doubt Ernie is getting alot of media requests to discuss Petro's job. If it is to be believed - Daniels couldn't care less what happens. I am sure Petro is getting some calls/e-mails or texts from Messrs. Cordish/Cowan/Townsend with some thoughts/input. 99.99999999% of the population couldn't pick Petro out of a line-up. I was at the Ohio State game - there couldn't have been much more than 300 students there if that. I think one thing the Hopkins old guard is struggling with as much as the performance of the team on the field - no one cares. Yeah 200 people might think Petro is an idiot and the goalie sucks if Hopkins loses alot but that is only alot because at many other schools that number is almost strictly limited to player's parents - if he feels this great pressure - it's all internal.

[HopFan16]

Despite getting Kevin Huntley, Phil Castronova and Ryan Brown, and a few others (and having Dave Huntley coaching there) CHC has not been a real source of players for Hop. Keep in mind that there is a strong connection between CHC and Carolina (Joe Bresci was an asst coach on the UNC Championship team that Bryan Kelly played) and it seems that half the kids playing at CHC are Kelly family members!!! Bresci also started the OSU - CHC connection when he was at OSU and Travis Crane (asst coach at OSU) is only 2 years removed from coaching at CHC.

Maybe things will change with Tinney now at CHC, only time will tell.

Chris Lightner, too. (And Kelton Black). That's four pretty major impact players in a decade. It's certainly not the most of the Baltimore area schools but considering the Kelly/UNC stranglehold on that program I think Hop could have done much worse. And like you said, having Tinney there now won't hurt.

And yes, re: Haverford, I was talking about the pipeline specifically to Hopkins. Two Haverford guys have left the team in recent years, a third transferred, and there were rumors about the other kid who thankfully decided to stay. But since him there have been no other commits. Their big-time middie recruit is joining Aitken at UVA. Think that have on other kid going Villanova, one Harvard, one Utah. Haverford isn't exactly in Hop's backyard. Before Smith/Supinski committed the last Ford guy was Kyle Wharton. Great program but you're not going to do well at all of them. The BL pipeline looks intact for the foreseeable future but I know there is a group of people who thinks we should recruit fewer "IQ" guys from there.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Maryland will choke Saturday.

[DocBarrister]

... most top head lacrosse coaches were fierce competitors in their playing days and are fierce competitors now. It’s why they win.

Those kinds of people SEEK tough challenges, they don’t avoid them.

....and in their playing days, they didn't have a family to support.

Perusing the list of the "top" head coaches in D1, my money is on a young top assistant getting the call.

We'll find out soon enough. Appreciate the discussion....

I hear what you’re saying, but no one goes into coaching for job security. It’s the nature of the profession.

There are only a handful of “crown jewel” head coaching positions in college lacrosse. Johns Hopkins is one of them.

DocBarrister

[51percentcorn]

“crown jewel” head coaching positions in college lacrosse. Johns Hopkins is one of them.

LOL - as a private institution Hopkins can pay what it wants and the historical legacy probably still helps fill up your summer camps as dads remember the glory days - crown jewel - please.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

The WOMBAT Crown Jewels refer to something entirely different.

Probably bigger too.

[steel_hop]

Tambroni, on the other hand? 9 seasons, zero NCAA playoff wins.
Anyone think he's on the hot seat? Me neither. Why leave that situation to come to Hopkins where the most likely (as in, greater than 50%) result is that you won't last past your five year contract.

Food for thought. We don't just have parity for players....we have it for coaches, too.

Well, PSU was in a different spot than Hopkins was in 2010 than Hopkins in 2019. PSU had made all of 2 NCAA tournaments before the change. It was creating program and an ethos in that program for success. Hopkins is certainly in a different place. It is about righting a program and maximizing talent and then go from there. It should take less time. We can argue about the talent level but I dont think most people would say Hopkins is maximizing their talent under Petro. Im not arguing it is FF material this year because of the losses from last year. Well, you might but Petro has gotten less from more than most coaches.

I'd agree that it probably took a couple of more years to get to where they want but there is no doubt the PSU program is trending in the right direction. Where is Hopkins program going?

[youthathletics]

FanLax Navy fan here. I would like to offer an equal trade 1v1, all pay and benefits are equal, just swap positions. To sweeten the deal, maybe RS can bring Kevin Crowley back as a new OC for you guys. We will allow that as part of the trade.

[a fan]

I'd agree that it probably took a couple of more years to get to where they want but there is no doubt the PSU program is trending in the right direction.

Penn is "trending in the right direction" because they landed two elite attackmen who fit perfectly together. Let's see how they do when Ament and OKeefe graduate, and we see how the remaining pieces do on the field.

Notice how Brown is doing lately? That. No Molloy, no NCAA tournament. And in a flash, they're staring at a losing season.

You gents have to set your own goals for Hopkins, but if you ask me, 8 playoff bids in 10 tries is going to be harder to repeat than most here think. And every year the Big Ten gets tougher.

[wgdsr]

i wouldn't say the b1g gets tougher every year, it'd seem this year was a bit easier than at least the last couple to grab some wins, be positioned to be in the tournaments.
probably just a nick and will uptick next year, but there's a decent chance outside a couple upsets this is a 2 bid league in 2019.
sos in-conference is par for the course for where they've gotten to (relatively quickly) as one of the top 2-3 conferences every year.
plus hopkins took the invite at least partly for another possible bite at the apple - aq.

but they've always played a tough schedule, without an aq previously, and have simply substituted some strong-ish teams in a conference for strong-ish teams that weren't in their conference. with an aq kicker. at one point, they played all the acc schools, have since dropped duke, looks like they're about to drop uva, maybe the 'cuse is next. maybe loyola, who knows?

and it's possible their schedule might in the future be leaning to try to find top 20 teams out of conference they think they can beat, or match up well against. have the b1g shots against whoever has a strong team, and then try to nab a couple top 20 wins.

[jhu72]

I see your point and agree in the past this was true. I am not so sure this is true today - the egg timer bit.

You think Tambroni's performance since he arrived at Penn State would be acceptable at Hopkins? 9 years, no playoff wins?

I don't. Tambroni would have made it to year five at Hopkins, and not one day more. And I believe that would still be the case if he was hired by Hopkins in 2020.

No question that would not cut it. But I do believe that 10 years ago that would be much harder "rule" than today. A 2020 hire, I just am not so sure. The fans and the boosters would not like it or put up with it, I am just not so certain about this administration any longer.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

FanLax Navy fan here. I would like to offer an equal trade 1v1, all pay and benefits are equal, just swap positions. To sweeten the deal, maybe RS can bring Kevin Crowley back as a new OC for you guys. We will allow that as part of the trade.

Would rather get Cindy in return instead.

[steel_hop]

FanLax Navy fan here. I would like to offer an equal trade 1v1, all pay and benefits are equal, just swap positions. To sweeten the deal, maybe RS can bring Kevin Crowley back as a new OC for you guys. We will allow that as part of the trade.

I doubt there would be a 1 v 1 trade, but it wouldn't shock me if Petro is let go that he ends up at Navy - if he goes at the end of this year i could see him taking a year off. I would think his style of defense and offense would suit the type of players Navy gets. I don't think Hopkins is taking Sewell off your hands.

[steel_hop]

I'd agree that it probably took a couple of more years to get to where they want but there is no doubt the PSU program is trending in the right direction.

Penn is "trending in the right direction" because they landed two elite attackmen who fit perfectly together. Let's see how they do when Ament and OKeefe graduate, and we see how the remaining pieces do on the field.

Notice how Brown is doing lately? That. No Molloy, no NCAA tournament. And in a flash, they're staring at a losing season.

You gents have to set your own goals for Hopkins, but if you ask me, 8 playoff bids in 10 tries is going to be harder to repeat than most here think. And every year the Big Ten gets tougher.

I understand you point. You continue to miss the point many of us make. Petro has been missing on recruits for too long and not maximizing the talent he has - the 2018 class and the 2019 class were back to back no. 1 ranked class and the results speak for themselves. Add in a antiquated and overly complex defensive scheme and an offense scheme that isnt built for the shot clock era means changes need to be made.

I also dont care what happens at other schools. If Hopkins best year in a 11 years is one FF, then you have problems not being successful at one of the premier lacrosse in the country. Petro's made his bed, you continue to defend the undefensible.

[a fan]

I understand you point. You continue to miss the point many of us make. Petro has been missing on recruits for too long

You're not reading some of my posts. I said that I agree with this point.

and not maximizing the talent he has - the 2018 class and the 2019 class were back to back no. 1 ranked class and the results speak for themselves.

Yeah, and Jordan Evans (sorry to throw him under the bus) was a #1 recruit too. So what? His lack of scoring had nothing to do with Desko. Throw your IL recruiting issue out, is my advice here.

I also dont care what happens at other schools. If Hopkins best year in a 11 years is one FF, then you have problems not being successful at one of the premier lacrosse in the country. Petro's made his bed, you continue to defend the undefensible.

For the last time, I'm not defending him. I'm just telling you that he might not be the problem. You just don't want to hear that, so you call me a Petro apologist. Nope. Just suggesting other factors are at play.

Tell you what: if and when they get a new coach, and I'll be back here to take wagers on how he'll do over five years. If his name doesn't rhyme with Phil Shmearney, I'll bet he does worse in a five year contract than Petro did.

Example? Tiffany is three years into his contract, and still doesn't have a NCAA playoff. He could win the National Championship the next three years in a row.

Or.....continue the streak. We'll see.