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Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:25 pm
by ggait
Folks forget that Nixon was incredibly popular (with voters and the GOP) throughout most of Watergate. In 1972 he got 60% of the vote and carried 49 states in the EC. He was way more popular than Trump has ever been. And then he wasn't popular at all.
The GOP totally stuck by Nixon until very late. And then they totally didn't stick by him.
If the GOP ever abandons Trump, that's how it will happen. Very late and very sudden.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:31 pm
by Trinity
Barr will try to block this. Mitch will try. Kavanaugh will hurl himself in front of the train. Mueller has to make arrests for everything.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:44 pm
by old salt
Only gotta convince 20 GOP Senators. 19 are up for re-election in 2020 :
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:48 pm
by ggait
Barr won't help Trump with this stuff. He said so in his now infamous memo:
In general, obstruction laws are meant to protect proceedings from actions designed subvert the integrity of their truth finding function through compromising the honesty of decision-makers or impairing the integrity or availability of evidence testimonial, documentary, or physical. Thus, obstruction laws prohibit a range of bad acts such as tampering with a witness or juror; or destroying, altering, or falsifying evidence all of which are inherently wrongful because, by their very nature, they are directed at depriving the proceeding of honest decision-makers or access to full and accurate evidence.
Obviously, the President and any other official can commit obstruction in this classic sense of sabotaging a proceedings truth-finding function. Thus, for example, if a President knowingly
destroys or alters evidence, suborns perjury, or induces a witness to change testimony, or commits any act deliberately impairing the integrity or availability of evidence, then he, like anyone else, commits the crime of obstruction. Indeed, the acts of obstruction alleged against Presidents Nixon and Clinton in their respective impeachments were all such bad acts involving the impairment of evidence.
The President, as far as I know, is not being accused of engaging in any wrongful act of evidence impairment.
If the Buzzfeed article is true (and Mueller seems to think that it is) then the president is now so accused.
Barr and Kavanaugh are Bush-type Deep Staters. They won't lift a finger to help MAGA Trump if Mueller brings the goods.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:01 pm
by tech37
Mueller better come with a clear "kill shot" (as OS has said) or the country is in for a dump storm.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:13 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
tech37 wrote:Mueller better come with a clear "kill shot" (as OS has said) or the country is in for a dump storm.
“Now that election is over. It’s time to bring the country together. One of my first acts, as your CinC, will be to determine if any American citizen worked with a foreign intelligence office to influence our electoral process. Any such persons found to have conspired with a foreign government, will be subject to the full force of the United States government...”. Or something like that.....
Should have been easy to say....
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:21 pm
by a fan
tech37 wrote:Mueller better come with a clear "kill shot" (as OS has said) or the country is in for a dump storm.
Kill shot as defined by Trumpists. An impossible bar.
Since we brought up Nixon, people forget that he would not have resigned if not for the tapes.
No such tape exists with Mueller.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:26 pm
by tech37
a fan wrote:tech37 wrote:Mueller better come with a clear "kill shot" (as OS has said) or the country is in for a dump storm.
Kill shot as defined by Trumpists. An impossible bar.
I'm not talking about his base. IMO, there are a lot of people out there who silently don't want to see indictment or impeachment happen.
Since we brought up Nixon, people forget that he would not have resigned if not for the tapes.
No such tape exists with Mueller.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:45 pm
by Trinity
Girls basketball coach Kavanaugh needed to travel and double-dribble to get through a background check. He sat in front of Congress and lied his face off. Don’t trust him.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:46 pm
by a fan
I don't want to see impeachment happen-----and I HATE the guy, tech37.
My fear is impeachment using evidence that would put any normal American criminal in jail....that's not enough evidence. FoxNation would freak out.
I'd rather Trump run out the clock on his last two years.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:48 pm
by Trinity
How many more unqualified lifetime appointments to the courts? He’s seating guys who never were judges or even tried a case. They hate gays or abortion or both. That’s the qualification. Meanwhile Trump is a liar. Ivanka is a liar. Dondi. Jared. Two more years? We won’t have an ally left.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 pm
by a fan
You're forgetting who's on deck: Pence would make that issue 100 times worse.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:56 pm
by Trinity
Will Pence start an idiotic war or give away the Crown Jewels? Has he already racked up a thousand conflicts of interest? I don’t know. Shyte or Shinola? Russia really didn’t send our best. Man, nothing gets by Devin Nunes or Jim Jordan. They’re about to learn how to investigate a crime. The Russian coverup in the Congress is over.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:58 pm
by tech37
Trinity wrote:I play golf with some Trump fans. They’ve gone mute. Manafort in Madrid giving Russians data did it for them.
Perhaps you should cut your golfing buddies some slack? Thank you Mr. Mueller.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:17 pm
by old salt
ggait wrote:Seems to me like Mueller has been issuing his report to us one legal filing at a time.
The obvious point here is that Mueller has already told us publicly what Mueller thinks he can prove here and where he is heading. Mueller has also told us that Mueller finds Cohen very credible and helpful on these matters. Mueller has told us that Mueller can corroborate Cohen's story.
In that context, the Buzzfeed article is interesting and pretty credible if only because it is 100% consistent with what Mueller himself has already foreshadowed. And because it gives us a rare peek into the mountain of evidence that Mueller has -- Trump Org emails, texts, document cache.
Mueller knows, and he has receipts.
Yep. Mueller's telling us what he's got, ...& what's .bs1.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... eeds-cohen
Buzzfeed needs to change their name to BSfeed.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:45 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote:ggait wrote:Seems to me like Mueller has been issuing his report to us one legal filing at a time.
The obvious point here is that Mueller has already told us publicly what Mueller thinks he can prove here and where he is heading. Mueller has also told us that Mueller finds Cohen very credible and helpful on these matters. Mueller has told us that Mueller can corroborate Cohen's story.
In that context, the Buzzfeed article is interesting and pretty credible if only because it is 100% consistent with what Mueller himself has already foreshadowed. And because it gives us a rare peek into the mountain of evidence that Mueller has -- Trump Org emails, texts, document cache.
Mueller knows, and he has receipts.
Yep. Mueller's telling us what he's got, ...& what's .bs1.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... eeds-cohen
Buzzfeed needs to change their name to BSfeed.
It’s a SDNY case.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
by old salt
This is going to hurt tv ratings for Cohen's House testimony.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:51 pm
by dislaxxic
Marcy Wheeler got this episode pretty clearly right. Read the FULL piece of hers I posted last, above. She cautioned that the Buzzfeed story was likely to distract from all we DO know happened in the Russian conspiracy. The possible lack (for now) of direct corroborating documentation seems pretty unlikely to end Don’s culpability to me. I’ll post some more Emptywheel soon...that Cohen would do what he did, all on his own initiative, kinda beggars belief.
Bobby Three Sticks is hard on the trail of the whole story...the whole truth. This entire exercise has been pretty excruciating, and likely will only get worse...
..
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:36 am
by old salt
dislaxxic wrote:Marcy Wheeler got this episode pretty clearly right.
I’ll post some more Emptywheel soon...
Wash her mouth out with soap first. We sailors aren't impressed by crude language like that.
Re: The Mueller Investigation
Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:28 am
by Trinity
You think an error in a story by Buzzfeed means Manafort and Trump did not collude?
The difference may lie in the report the WH was aware Cohen would lie versus he was directed to lie. We’ll see.
Neither is a good development for Trump.
I’ll bet the golf boys don’t flip back. They tried pretty hard to explain the Madrid trip and couldn’t and neither can anyone else. Flipped Rick Gates has been invaluable.
Meanwhile in Russia—-Russian reporter who died after falling from his fifth-floor balcony had been investigating allegations about Deripaska and Manafort made by Belarusian escort Nastya Rybka (exposed by @navalny) who is now in Russian custody.