Johns Hopkins 2023

[nyjay]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - high schoolers are watching how coaches use the transfer portal. Fanlax posters can prattle away about "the best players want to compete against the best" but highly-ranked recruits have no interest in squaring off with 27 year-old transfers for playing time ... even in scenic Piscataway.

Makes the Ivies rather appealing to recruits at the moment

[Farfromgeneva]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - high schoolers are watching how coaches use the transfer portal. Fanlax posters can prattle away about "the best players want to compete against the best" but highly-ranked recruits have no interest in squaring off with 27 year-old transfers for playing time ... even in scenic Piscataway.

Makes the Ivies rather appealing to recruits at the moment

Well if a kid is picking OSU over HYP…

[jrn19]

This is a case study of one school but the portal impacted Rutgers recruiting IMO and negated what should have been momentum on that front. Coming off quarterfinals and Final Four appearances in 2021 and 2022, they should have absolutely killed it with top recruits on the recruiting trail for the two classes that committed the following Septembers (HS classes '23 and '24). But it was more of the same. Only two 4-stars in those classes combined and the lone ranked player is the brother of a current player. They had another one but he flipped to Syracuse, not exactly an upgrade. Zero 4-stars in the class of '24 coming off the program's first ever FF appearance. If getting to the Final Four doesn't help recruiting at all (in fact, it's going in the wrong direction — their '22 class was better than the two that followed), you have to wonder if something else is going on. Their fans will claim Brecht doesn't go after the highly ranked players to make themselves feel better about not getting many of them but I assure you that is not true. He wants them just like every other coach.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - high schoolers are watching how coaches use the transfer portal. Fanlax posters can prattle away about "the best players want to compete against the best" but highly-ranked recruits have no interest in squaring off with 27 year-old transfers for playing time ... even in scenic Piscataway.

you don't think maryland's gonna get recruits? duke? unc? notre dame? g'town? tosu? where are they all gonna go?

The recruits are def paying very very very close to attention to something that largely won’t be a major factor anymore in 1-2 years

[Farfromgeneva]

This is a case study of one school but the portal impacted Rutgers recruiting IMO and negated what should have been momentum on that front. Coming off quarterfinals and Final Four appearances in 2021 and 2022, they should have absolutely killed it with top recruits on the recruiting trail for the two classes that committed the following Septembers (HS classes '23 and '24). But it was more of the same. Only two 4-stars in those classes combined and the lone ranked player is the brother of a current player. They had another one but he flipped to Syracuse, not exactly an upgrade. Zero 4-stars in the class of '24 coming off the program's first ever FF appearance. If getting to the Final Four doesn't help recruiting at all (in fact, it's going in the wrong direction — their '22 class was better than the two that followed), you have to wonder if something else is going on. Their fans will claim Brecht doesn't go after the highly ranked players to make themselves feel better about not getting many of them but I assure you that is not true. He wants them just like every other coach.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - high schoolers are watching how coaches use the transfer portal. Fanlax posters can prattle away about "the best players want to compete against the best" but highly-ranked recruits have no interest in squaring off with 27 year-old transfers for playing time ... even in scenic Piscataway.

you don't think maryland's gonna get recruits? duke? unc? notre dame? g'town? tosu? where are they all gonna go?

The recruits are def paying very very very close to attention to something that largely won’t be a major factor anymore in 1-2 years

Is that the case given the culture of transferring embedded now. Yes less 5th years but probably a steady flow of upper class transfers unlike previously I expect and each coach will approach utilizing that part of the system differently as well as integrating them differently. Syracuse used to be thought of as a school who took in a lot of transfers a number of years back now there’ll be 5-10 programs that may take that approach.

[jrn19]

Yes and high school recruits definitely stopped going to Syracuse as a result

[Sagittarius A*]

Yes and high school recruits definitely stopped going to Syracuse as a result

The Head Coach has a lot to do with recruiting. When UVA hired Lars Tiffany, they seemed to be able to get the top recruit every year. He flipped our guy Shelly just for starters.
The combination of charismatic Head Coach and school seems to work out for them.
Similar story at College Park. Tillman was long considered an elite coach. When he got to UMD his recruiting skyrocketed.
Hopkins has a rep, still a little left at least, though getting tarnished yearly now, but still recruiting seems limited at best.
Last top ten player? Grimes, recruited by Petro.
Watching the steady descent into the abyss is painful.
I wish someone could just sit down and reason with RD.

[Farfromgeneva]

Well I can’t argue with binary extremes it’s just not really useful as opposed to considering a range in the spectrum.

[OCanada]

Yes and high school recruits definitely stopped going to Syracuse as a result

It is not that simple. I was given a stat that there has been a significant drop in enrollment of 40% as one reason NY is seeing fewer elite players coming out. Second Cuse for some reason was not recruiting lax legacies; a good example of one now enrolled at UVA. They did not bother to call about half a dozen. Gross negligence to me

[jrn19]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

[Asgot]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

This is a fair point. Rutgers was not getting top kids before the portal, but what people are saying is that their final 4 run should have, maybe given them a boost in recruiting which they have not seen this far. The two Brother from NJ are legacy kids who parents and uncles all went to Rutgers. Rutgers is still struggling to convince top kids in the state to stay home.

[Farfromgeneva]

Yes and high school recruits definitely stopped going to Syracuse as a result

It is not that simple. I was given a stat that there has been a significant drop in enrollment of 40% as one reason NY is seeing fewer elite players coming out. Second Cuse for some reason was not recruiting lax legacies; a good example of one now enrolled at UVA. They did not bother to call about half a dozen. Gross negligence to me

Think we’ve discussed Ryan archer in the past as well. Have heard Jamie was agnostic at best towards Ryan going to Syracuse for various reasons but they probably could’ve had him if they wanted to.

[Farfromgeneva]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

Need more variables as well as outcomes, how they were utilized and who their competition on the roster was as well.

Hence my original comment if enough time passed to do a (multi variable, dynamic) anaylsis.

[OCanada]

Yes and high school recruits definitely stopped going to Syracuse as a result

It is not that simple. I was given a stat that there has been a significant drop in enrollment of 40% as one reason NY is seeing fewer elite players coming out. Second Cuse for some reason was not recruiting lax legacies; a good example of one now enrolled at UVA. They did not bother to call about half a dozen. Gross negligence to me

Think we’ve discussed Ryan archer in the past as well. Have heard Jamie was agnostic at best towards Ryan going to Syracuse for various reasons but they probably could’ve had him if they wanted to.

To me the story lies in not even picking up the phone to call.

[jrn19]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

This is a fair point. Rutgers was not getting top kids before the portal, but what people are saying is that their final 4 run should have, maybe given them a boost in recruiting which they have not seen this far. The two Brother from NJ are legacy kids who parents and uncles all went to Rutgers. Rutgers is still struggling to convince top kids in the state to stay home.

I’m not sure just winning a lot of games or making F4’s ultimately sways kids to suddenly consider Rutgers when there are so many other options. Denver won a national title and made tons of F4’s and while they def got themselves some bigger names here or there, it was well below the usual suspects. Same with Loyola. EOD, recruits will consider whole package of location, academics, team success, chance of pro success, etc. against one another. Not saying Rutgers is bad for location, academics, any of those things but one thing rarely sways these decisions. Princeton in-state became more appealing in terms of team success at the same time Rutgers did for instance as well. Anyhow, not gonna swallow up the Hopkins board with this 2 weeks before the season any further.

[Farfromgeneva]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

This is a fair point. Rutgers was not getting top kids before the portal, but what people are saying is that their final 4 run should have, maybe given them a boost in recruiting which they have not seen this far. The two Brother from NJ are legacy kids who parents and uncles all went to Rutgers. Rutgers is still struggling to convince top kids in the state to stay home.

I’m not sure just winning a lot of games or making F4’s ultimately sways kids to suddenly consider Rutgers when there are so many other options. Denver won a national title and made tons of F4’s and while they def got themselves some bigger names here or there, it was well below the usual suspects. Same with Loyola. EOD, recruits will consider whole package of location, academics, team success, chance of pro success, etc. against one another. Not saying Rutgers is bad for location, academics, any of those things but one thing rarely sways these decisions. Princeton in-state became more appealing in terms of team success at the same time Rutgers did for instance as well. Anyhow, not gonna swallow up the Hopkins board with this 2 weeks before the season any further.

Location is an issue with Rutgers - I'm sure some will yell NYC, but it aint close enough or easy enough to get to as someone who lived in Manhattan for a number of years. Fine town but not nearly as bucolic as Princeton. CP is on the red line into DC for example. Penn is in the hood but easy access to better parts of Philly. Never been on UD's campus but presume it's convenient and I can't imagine anyone who's visited Denver or the general Denver MSA hasn't at least once thought in their heads about relocating there.

[44WeWantMore]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

This is a fair point. Rutgers was not getting top kids before the portal, but what people are saying is that their final 4 run should have, maybe given them a boost in recruiting which they have not seen this far. The two Brother from NJ are legacy kids who parents and uncles all went to Rutgers. Rutgers is still struggling to convince top kids in the state to stay home.

I’m not sure just winning a lot of games or making F4’s ultimately sways kids to suddenly consider Rutgers when there are so many other options. Denver won a national title and made tons of F4’s and while they def got themselves some bigger names here or there, it was well below the usual suspects. Same with Loyola. EOD, recruits will consider whole package of location, academics, team success, chance of pro success, etc. against one another. Not saying Rutgers is bad for location, academics, any of those things but one thing rarely sways these decisions. Princeton in-state became more appealing in terms of team success at the same time Rutgers did for instance as well. Anyhow, not gonna swallow up the Hopkins board with this 2 weeks before the season any further.

Location is an issue with Rutgers - I'm sure some will yell NYC, but it aint close enough or easy enough to get to as someone who lived in Manhattan for a number of years. Fine town but not nearly as bucolic as Princeton. CP is on the red line into DC for example. Penn is in the hood but easy access to better parts of Philly. Never been on UD's campus but presume it's convenient and I can't imagine anyone who's visited Denver or the general Denver MSA hasn't at least once thought in their heads about relocating there.

That was once true, but University City is much better than it was decades ago. Not just Penn's growth and commitment to revitalization, but biotech on Market Street, and some years of Drexel acting like a conglomerate in the go-go days.

[Farfromgeneva]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

This is a fair point. Rutgers was not getting top kids before the portal, but what people are saying is that their final 4 run should have, maybe given them a boost in recruiting which they have not seen this far. The two Brother from NJ are legacy kids who parents and uncles all went to Rutgers. Rutgers is still struggling to convince top kids in the state to stay home.

I’m not sure just winning a lot of games or making F4’s ultimately sways kids to suddenly consider Rutgers when there are so many other options. Denver won a national title and made tons of F4’s and while they def got themselves some bigger names here or there, it was well below the usual suspects. Same with Loyola. EOD, recruits will consider whole package of location, academics, team success, chance of pro success, etc. against one another. Not saying Rutgers is bad for location, academics, any of those things but one thing rarely sways these decisions. Princeton in-state became more appealing in terms of team success at the same time Rutgers did for instance as well. Anyhow, not gonna swallow up the Hopkins board with this 2 weeks before the season any further.

Location is an issue with Rutgers - I'm sure some will yell NYC, but it aint close enough or easy enough to get to as someone who lived in Manhattan for a number of years. Fine town but not nearly as bucolic as Princeton. CP is on the red line into DC for example. Penn is in the hood but easy access to better parts of Philly. Never been on UD's campus but presume it's convenient and I can't imagine anyone who's visited Denver or the general Denver MSA hasn't at least once thought in their heads about relocating there.

That was once true, but University City is much better than it was decades ago. Not just Penn's growth and commitment to revitalization, but biotech on Market Street, and some years of Drexel acting like a conglomerate in the go-go days.

Haven’t seen that area since around 2008 and last few trips to Philly area were for business either to mid/downtown (16th and walnut to be precise) or Bryn Mawr area. So specific to the UPenn Campus area it’s been a while thanks. Think last time I was there was to check out some for profit and nominally public but bankrupt school campus relatively nearby that sat on 30 or so ac we were looking to do something with/for at an old gig.

[10stone5]

My point is that high school recruits are not ignoring schools that went heavy into the transfer portal, as evidenced by Maryland, Duke, Georgetown, Notre Dame, continuing to rack up tons of elite high school prospects.

Rutgers hasn’t gotten elite prospects out of high school since they went heavy in the transfer portal but also Rutgers wasn’t getting those recruits before that either so not sure you can really make a correlation = causation claim there

This is a fair point. Rutgers was not getting top kids before the portal, but what people are saying is that their final 4 run should have, maybe given them a boost in recruiting which they have not seen this far. The two Brother from NJ are legacy kids who parents and uncles all went to Rutgers. Rutgers is still struggling to convince top kids in the state to stay home.

I’m not sure just winning a lot of games or making F4’s ultimately sways kids to suddenly consider Rutgers when there are so many other options. Denver won a national title and made tons of F4’s and while they def got themselves some bigger names here or there, it was well below the usual suspects. Same with Loyola. EOD, recruits will consider whole package of location, academics, team success, chance of pro success, etc. against one another. Not saying Rutgers is bad for location, academics, any of those things but one thing rarely sways these decisions. Princeton in-state became more appealing in terms of team success at the same time Rutgers did for instance as well. Anyhow, not gonna swallow up the Hopkins board with this 2 weeks before the season any further.

Location is an issue with Rutgers - I'm sure some will yell NYC, but it aint close enough or easy enough to get to as someone who lived in Manhattan for a number of years. Fine town but not nearly as bucolic as Princeton. CP is on the red line into DC for example. Penn is in the hood but easy access to better parts of Philly. Never been on UD's campus but presume it's convenient and I can't imagine anyone who's visited Denver or the general Denver MSA hasn't at least once thought in their heads about relocating there.

That was once true, but University City is much better than it was decades ago. Not just Penn's growth and commitment to revitalization, but biotech on Market Street, and some years of Drexel acting like a conglomerate in the go-go days.

Haven’t seen that area since around 2008 and last few trips to Philly area were for business either to mid/downtown (16th and walnut to be precise) or Bryn Mawr area. So specific to the UPenn Campus area it’s been a while thanks. Think last time I was there was to check out some for profit and nominally public but bankrupt school campus relatively nearby that sat on 30 or so ac we were looking to do something with/for at an old gig.

I highly recommend getting out to a UPenn game this year.

For weekend daytime games, you can park right on the street,
I recommend Walnut st. so long as you don’t mind walking a
few blocks, you pay on one of those meter machines and its
pretty reasonable and safe.

And you get to see a game in cavernous, yes, but historic
Franklin Field - definitely make sure you’re seated on the
sunny side.

Its too bad UPenn hasn’t been on Hopkins’ schedule in years.

[nyjay]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - high schoolers are watching how coaches use the transfer portal. Fanlax posters can prattle away about "the best players want to compete against the best" but highly-ranked recruits have no interest in squaring off with 27 year-old transfers for playing time ... even in scenic Piscataway.

Makes the Ivies rather appealing to recruits at the moment

Well if a kid is picking OSU over HYP…

Is that the point I'm making? Not sure why it's necessary to willfully ignore the substance of a post to reply with snark. To spell it out more clearly for you, given that you didn't seem to understand - if a kid is considering Duke, UVa, JHU, UNC, ND, Georgetown (i.e. very good academics, dare I say "near Ivies", all of whom are active participants in the transfer market and have some of their own guys stick around for 5 yrs these days) and also considering HYP or Brown or Penn or Cornell, do you think it might make a difference that HYP, Brown, Penn, Cornell don't generally take transfers (yes, I know about TD) and don't have guys stick around for five years? My only point was that that might actually be true, which seems, I don't know, pretty much right? But hey, thanks for weighing in. Really appreciate it.

[Farfromgeneva]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - high schoolers are watching how coaches use the transfer portal. Fanlax posters can prattle away about "the best players want to compete against the best" but highly-ranked recruits have no interest in squaring off with 27 year-old transfers for playing time ... even in scenic Piscataway.

Makes the Ivies rather appealing to recruits at the moment

Well if a kid is picking OSU over HYP…

Is that the point I'm making? Not sure why it's necessary to willfully ignore the substance of a post to reply with snark. To spell it out more clearly for you, given that you didn't seem to understand - if a kid is considering Duke, UVa, JHU, UNC, ND, Georgetown (i.e. very good academics, dare I say "near Ivies", all of whom are active participants in the transfer market and have some of their own guys stick around for 5 yrs these days) and also considering HYP or Brown or Penn or Cornell, do you think it might make a difference that HYP, Brown, Penn, Cornell don't generally take transfers (yes, I know about TD) and don't have guys stick around for five years? My only point was that that might actually be true, which seems, I don't know, pretty much right? But hey, thanks for weighing in. Really appreciate it.

Damn, all I can think right now of your response is another word for female dog.

Wrote one sentence and wants everyone to just agree and now down. That’s what you look like. Dynamic model, multi variable oh sir genius intellect.

I think there’s lots of variables and your dumbass reductive comment that I replied to is as inane as as any other here. How do the coaches utilize said transfers, what about the limitations of AI, who’s on the roster.

But yeah say five words and we should all get on our knees and agree with you.

Your only point is you lazily say one simple undeveloped comment and are so self centered as to bug out because we don’t all bow down. My comment in isolation but in the context of the prior comments about this line of inquiry has as much value as yours-I’m pretty sure I’m right.