2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[RedFromMI]

crack cocaine is a horrible drug. Aren't you Biden supporters worried about a relapse? Suppose Biden is in an important meeting......an ole Hunter is found in an alley off of Florida and 14th st......is ole and he IS old......gonna stop the meeting to tend to his son.

Joe Biden. Tend to your family. The country will be fine without your "service"

You care about Hunter Biden's job aptitude? Is he still holding his "board" seat?

No he has resigned from the Bursima board...

[ggait]

You wonder if the Democrats will pay attention to what BHO is telling them?

The moderate wing of the Dem party is quite healthy. In the Dem party, the moderates run the show -- Pelosi, Obama, Biden, Hillary. In the GOP,
the moderate wing has completely collapsed. Moderates are derided as RINOs and sent packing. Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, McCain, Flake and Corker are all gone and have not been replaced. Kasich is basically an outcast.

So all that is left in the GOP is far right authoritarian Trump and his toadies. Exhibit A -- Lindsey Graham.

Unlike the GOP, the Dems know that the winning path is in the center. They flipped the house in 2018 by having moderate Dem candidates beat GOP candidates in swing districts. In the presidential race, Biden is the front runner. And once he starts to look doubtful, guys like Bloomberg and Deval Patrick jump in. The Bernie, AOC, Warren wing is a minority in the Dem party.

The center left is doing fine. The center right, however, is teetering on extinction. The GOP knows this -- go back and look at the 2013 RNC post-mortem. Back then even Fox News agreed that the GOP needed to moderate -- with O'Reilly and Hannity advocating for an amnesty grand bargain on immigration. But the weakness of the center right allowed Trump to hijack the party. The GOP will eventually self-correct, but Trump has probably delayed that inevitable process by at least a decade.

[Typical Lax Dad]

crack cocaine is a horrible drug. Aren't you Biden supporters worried about a relapse? Suppose Biden is in an important meeting......an ole Hunter is found in an alley off of Florida and 14th st......is ole and he IS old......gonna stop the meeting to tend to his son.

Joe Biden. Tend to your family. The country will be fine without your "service"

You care about Hunter Biden's job aptitude? Is he still holding his "board" seat?

No he has resigned from the Bursima board...

Do you know when Jared and Ivanka are stepping down?

How about this guy for graft? https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-j ... 2508?amp=1

Waiting to hear the outrage

[cradleandshoot]

You wonder if the Democrats will pay attention to what BHO is telling them?

The moderate wing of the Dem party is quite healthy. In the Dem party, the moderates run the show -- Pelosi, Obama, Biden, Hillary. In the GOP,
the moderate wing has completely collapsed. Moderates are derided as RINOs and sent packing. Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, McCain, Flake and Corker are all gone and have not been replaced. Kasich is basically an outcast.

So all that is left in the GOP is far right authoritarian Trump and his toadies. Exhibit A -- Lindsey Graham.

Unlike the GOP, the Dems know that the winning path is in the center. They flipped the house in 2018 by having moderate Dem candidates beat GOP candidates in swing districts. In the presidential race, Biden is the front runner. And once he starts to look doubtful, guys like Bloomberg and Deval Patrick jump in. The Bernie, AOC, Warren wing is a minority in the Dem party.

The center left is doing fine. The center right, however, is teetering on extinction. The GOP knows this -- go back and look at the 2013 RNC post-mortem. Back then even Fox News agreed that the GOP needed to moderate -- with O'Reilly and Hannity advocating for an amnesty grand bargain on immigration. But the weakness of the center right allowed Trump to hijack the party. The GOP will eventually self-correct, but Trump has probably delayed that inevitable process by at least a decade.

You have to be kidding me? The FLP wing hijacked the Democrat party several years ago. Why would Barack Obama make such a statement in the first place? He understands what the hard turn to the left will mean to the Democrats in 2020. They will lose to Trump if they maintain their present heading. IMO America does not want extreme right or left. There are 2 things Trump is not. He is not a Republican and he is not a Conservative. The real deal old school Republicans hate his guts even more than the Democrats do. The old school Conservatives understand Trump does not care about how much of other peoples money he spends and how much debt he racks up. That being said, and this is a theme that keeps repeating, Trump will still be a better option to these folks than any of the folks leading the pack for the Democrats at this time. The Democrats have taken their eye off of the ball. They have become so obsessed with impeaching Trump they less concerned how to defeat him in a general election. Trumps people will come out to vote for him come hell or high water. The Democrats have to persuade all those independent folks to vote for a far left candidate that I don't see them being able to connect with. There is a possibility that a lot of these people will sit on their hands and not vote for either candidate.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You wonder if the Democrats will pay attention to what BHO is telling them?

The moderate wing of the Dem party is quite healthy. In the Dem party, the moderates run the show -- Pelosi, Obama, Biden, Hillary. In the GOP,
the moderate wing has completely collapsed. Moderates are derided as RINOs and sent packing. Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, McCain, Flake and Corker are all gone and have not been replaced. Kasich is basically an outcast.

So all that is left in the GOP is far right authoritarian Trump and his toadies. Exhibit A -- Lindsey Graham.

Unlike the GOP, the Dems know that the winning path is in the center. They flipped the house in 2018 by having moderate Dem candidates beat GOP candidates in swing districts. In the presidential race, Biden is the front runner. And once he starts to look doubtful, guys like Bloomberg and Deval Patrick jump in. The Bernie, AOC, Warren wing is a minority in the Dem party.

The center left is doing fine. The center right, however, is teetering on extinction. The GOP knows this -- go back and look at the 2013 RNC post-mortem. Back then even Fox News agreed that the GOP needed to moderate -- with O'Reilly and Hannity advocating for an amnesty grand bargain on immigration. But the weakness of the center right allowed Trump to hijack the party. The GOP will eventually self-correct, but Trump has probably delayed that inevitable process by at least a decade.

You have to be kidding me? The FLP wing hijacked the Democrat party several years ago. Why would Barack Obama make such a statement in the first place? He understands what the hard turn to the left will mean to the Democrats in 2020. They will lose to Trump if they maintain their present heading. IMO America does not want extreme right or left. There are 2 things Trump is not. He is not a Republican and he is not a Conservative. The real deal old school Republicans hate his guts even more than the Democrats do. The old school Conservatives understand Trump does not care about how much of other peoples money he spends and how much debt he racks up. That being said, and this is a theme that keeps repeating, Trump will still be a better option to these folks than any of the folks leading the pack for the Democrats at this time. The Democrats have taken their eye off of the ball. They have become so obsessed with impeaching Trump they less concerned how to defeat him in a general election. Trumps people will come out to vote for him come hell or high water. The Democrats have to persuade all those independent folks to vote for a far left candidate that I don't see them being able to connect with. There is a possibility that a lot of these people will sit on their hands and not vote for either candidate.

Yeah!! You tell ‘me!! Hillary Clinton led the charge with the last election!!

[cradleandshoot]

You wonder if the Democrats will pay attention to what BHO is telling them?

The moderate wing of the Dem party is quite healthy. In the Dem party, the moderates run the show -- Pelosi, Obama, Biden, Hillary. In the GOP,
the moderate wing has completely collapsed. Moderates are derided as RINOs and sent packing. Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, McCain, Flake and Corker are all gone and have not been replaced. Kasich is basically an outcast.

So all that is left in the GOP is far right authoritarian Trump and his toadies. Exhibit A -- Lindsey Graham.

Unlike the GOP, the Dems know that the winning path is in the center. They flipped the house in 2018 by having moderate Dem candidates beat GOP candidates in swing districts. In the presidential race, Biden is the front runner. And once he starts to look doubtful, guys like Bloomberg and Deval Patrick jump in. The Bernie, AOC, Warren wing is a minority in the Dem party.

The center left is doing fine. The center right, however, is teetering on extinction. The GOP knows this -- go back and look at the 2013 RNC post-mortem. Back then even Fox News agreed that the GOP needed to moderate -- with O'Reilly and Hannity advocating for an amnesty grand bargain on immigration. But the weakness of the center right allowed Trump to hijack the party. The GOP will eventually self-correct, but Trump has probably delayed that inevitable process by at least a decade.

You have to be kidding me? The FLP wing hijacked the Democrat party several years ago. Why would Barack Obama make such a statement in the first place? He understands what the hard turn to the left will mean to the Democrats in 2020. They will lose to Trump if they maintain their present heading. IMO America does not want extreme right or left. There are 2 things Trump is not. He is not a Republican and he is not a Conservative. The real deal old school Republicans hate his guts even more than the Democrats do. The old school Conservatives understand Trump does not care about how much of other peoples money he spends and how much debt he racks up. That being said, and this is a theme that keeps repeating, Trump will still be a better option to these folks than any of the folks leading the pack for the Democrats at this time. The Democrats have taken their eye off of the ball. They have become so obsessed with impeaching Trump they less concerned how to defeat him in a general election. Trumps people will come out to vote for him come hell or high water. The Democrats have to persuade all those independent folks to vote for a far left candidate that I don't see them being able to connect with. There is a possibility that a lot of these people will sit on their hands and not vote for either candidate.

Yeah!! You tell ‘me!! Hillary Clinton led the charge with the last election!!

Yepper, and the Democrats have regrouped and are charging up the hill with a new and improved strategy. They are concentrating their bonsai attack to just the left side of the hill. These idjits will never be mistaken for the rough riders.

[MDlaxfan76]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

[MDlaxfan76]

You wonder if the Democrats will pay attention to what BHO is telling them?

The moderate wing of the Dem party is quite healthy. In the Dem party, the moderates run the show -- Pelosi, Obama, Biden, Hillary. In the GOP,
the moderate wing has completely collapsed. Moderates are derided as RINOs and sent packing. Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, McCain, Flake and Corker are all gone and have not been replaced. Kasich is basically an outcast.

So all that is left in the GOP is far right authoritarian Trump and his toadies. Exhibit A -- Lindsey Graham.

Unlike the GOP, the Dems know that the winning path is in the center. They flipped the house in 2018 by having moderate Dem candidates beat GOP candidates in swing districts. In the presidential race, Biden is the front runner. And once he starts to look doubtful, guys like Bloomberg and Deval Patrick jump in. The Bernie, AOC, Warren wing is a minority in the Dem party.

The center left is doing fine. The center right, however, is teetering on extinction. The GOP knows this -- go back and look at the 2013 RNC post-mortem. Back then even Fox News agreed that the GOP needed to moderate -- with O'Reilly and Hannity advocating for an amnesty grand bargain on immigration. But the weakness of the center right allowed Trump to hijack the party. The GOP will eventually self-correct, but Trump has probably delayed that inevitable process by at least a decade.

I'm not sure at this point that the GOP actually can self-correct, absent a revolt ala what happened with Nixon or Trump actually going to the hoosegow post defeat at the polls. If he wins, it cements, if he loses, he creates a hard right media nightmare for the GOP.

It may require a third party center right to emerge, marginalizing the Trump phenomenon into eventual irrelevance.

[jhu72]

Trump suffers another gubernatorial race loss. This time in Louisiana. John Bel Edwards re-elected governor. Looks like when all the votes are counted Edwards wins 51% to 49% with record turnout. Trump visited Louisiana a handful of times stumping for Rispone the republican. Rispone ran an issueless race. His only campaign issue was he was a Trump supporter.

[cradleandshoot]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

[MDlaxfan76]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

cradle, you are certainly correct that the activist base in both parties are in each 'extreme'.

However, I'm not simply looking at the 'activist base'.

The difference that I'm describing is that the GOP is now all 'activist base' and/or cowed by Trump. The party has shrunk and, given its current positioning,will continue to shrink due to demographics. Its hardening behind the most extreme representation of corruption and bigotry, DJT, is forcing moderates to choose the exits.

This has not (yet) happened within the Dem party.
Look at the Iowa polls this weekend.
Look at Obama's comments over the weekend.

The moderate progressive wing is solid and large, and my point is that they're welcome as Dems.

[youthathletics]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

There is an outlier to all the R conversation however....it is Trump. Keep in mind the political R has been distancing themselves from Trump in an attempt to insulate themselves from being equally yolked to Trump. Furthermore, with the political partisan antics these first 3 years, some being of Trumps own accord, the dust has not settled enough for the strength of the entire R body to come together. Then when the D's took over the house in 2018 the R's added another layer of insulation...this has all culminated to a party unsure of their future. The additional problem, Trump is also not worried about those career R's that are indeed part of the swamp.

In the world of Trump, disruption creates opportunity via revealing strengths and weaknesses in people and process. The argument then, is this really what we all have wanted.....something to cause pain in our gov't that will promote change, real change, because simply going to to the voting box has not changed much in Washington.

[MDlaxfan76]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

There is an outlier to all the R conversation however....it is Trump. Keep in mind the political R has been distancing themselves from Trump in an attempt to insulate themselves from being equally yolked to Trump. Furthermore, with the political partisan antics these first 3 years, some being of Trumps own accord, the dust has not settled enough for the strength of the entire R body to come together. Then when the D's took over the house in 2018 the R's added another layer of insulation...this has all culminated to a party unsure of their future. The additional problem, Trump is also not worried about those career R's that are indeed part of the swamp.

In the world of Trump, disruption creates opportunity via revealing strengths and weaknesses in people and process. The argument then, is this really what we all have wanted.....something to cause pain in our gov't that will promote change, real change, because simply going to to the voting box has not changed much in Washington.

Fascinating theory.
The GOP hard right supports and elects the very most swampy of creatures under the banner of "disruption".

They then insist that all moderates be drummed out of the office and out of the party under the notion that those are the 'swamp'.

While putting into positions of administrative power at each political appointee level the very most swampy of creatures in their respective areas.

If someone is inadequately swampy they get pushed out.

If their corruption or malfeasance gets exposed in the media, they get replaced by someone even swampier.

They put into place, in top life long judge positions, young men, even with zero courtroom experience, but with the right partisan credentials.

They award ambassadorships to the swampiest donors (EG Sundland who had previously been a Dem bundler for personal advantage, then GOP bundler) and set them to swamp tasks abroad.

They attack the life long servants of the American public, patriots in the IC, FBI, FS, who have put their very lives in danger again and again and again on behalf of the country they love, as "bureaucrats", "traitors", the Deep State".

And they tell themselves they're 'draining the swamp'.

and now this absurd claim...it was all done to expose how awful DC is... by doing it even swampier?

[cradleandshoot]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

cradle, you are certainly correct that the activist base in both parties are in each 'extreme'.

However, I'm not simply looking at the 'activist base'.

The difference that I'm describing is that the GOP is now all 'activist base' and/or cowed by Trump. The party has shrunk and, given its current positioning,will continue to shrink due to demographics. Its hardening behind the most extreme representation of corruption and bigotry, DJT, is forcing moderates to choose the exits.

This has not (yet) happened within the Dem party.
Look at the Iowa polls this weekend.
Look at Obama's comments over the weekend.

The moderate progressive wing is solid and large, and my point is that they're welcome as Dems.

I am glad you brought up President Obama's comments. He is trying desperately to prevent the Democrats from making this hard left turn. IMO his comments fall on deaf ears. I don't think there are enough moderate progressives to prevent the stampede that is occurring at present. You make a good point about moderate Republicans heading for the exits. The problem is once they exit the door, what direction do they then go? They find themselves like the old proverbial man without a country. You want to support someone or something that resembles what your core values are.

What is a person to do when you feel you have been 100% abandoned by your own party? Do you turn to the Democrats who also have nothing in common with in terms of core beliefs. I will be looking this fall for other good candidates running on a 3rd party line. There is a slight possibility the Dems will come to their senses. I doubt it but come early next year we shall find out. I really like Tulsi quite a bit. I think she could beat Trump while also attracting a lot of disillusioned Republicans who hate Trump. This is the Democrats choice to make. They would well advised to choose wisely.

[youthathletics]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

There is an outlier to all the R conversation however....it is Trump. Keep in mind the political R has been distancing themselves from Trump in an attempt to insulate themselves from being equally yolked to Trump. Furthermore, with the political partisan antics these first 3 years, some being of Trumps own accord, the dust has not settled enough for the strength of the entire R body to come together. Then when the D's took over the house in 2018 the R's added another layer of insulation...this has all culminated to a party unsure of their future. The additional problem, Trump is also not worried about those career R's that are indeed part of the swamp.

In the world of Trump, disruption creates opportunity via revealing strengths and weaknesses in people and process. The argument then, is this really what we all have wanted.....something to cause pain in our gov't that will promote change, real change, because simply going to to the voting box has not changed much in Washington.

Fascinating theory.
The GOP hard right supports and elects the very most swampy of creatures under the banner of "disruption".

They then insist that all moderates be drummed out of the office and out of the party under the notion that those are the 'swamp'.

While putting into positions of administrative power at each political appointee level the very most swampy of creatures in their respective areas.

If someone is inadequately swampy they get pushed out.

If their corruption or malfeasance gets exposed in the media, they get replaced by someone even swampier.

They put into place, in top life long judge positions, young men, even with zero courtroom experience, but with the right partisan credentials.

They award ambassadorships to the swampiest donors (EG Sundland who had previously been a Dem bundler for personal advantage, then GOP bundler) and set them to swamp tasks abroad.

They attack the life long servants of the American public, patriots in the IC, FBI, FS, who have put their very lives in danger again and again and again on behalf of the country they love, as "bureaucrats", "traitors", the Deep State".

And they tell themselves they're 'draining the swamp'.

and now this absurd claim...it was all done to expose how awful DC is... by doing it even swampier?

We are saying the same thing, just coming from different angles. You are explaining what happens in the backrooms of the Capitol and EEOB, my 'fascinating theory' was about the outwardly non-collective teamwork being one team. This is why people like McConnell, Grassley, Ryan, are silent only until someone gets near the front porch.

[MDlaxfan76]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

cradle, you are certainly correct that the activist base in both parties are in each 'extreme'.

However, I'm not simply looking at the 'activist base'.

The difference that I'm describing is that the GOP is now all 'activist base' and/or cowed by Trump. The party has shrunk and, given its current positioning,will continue to shrink due to demographics. Its hardening behind the most extreme representation of corruption and bigotry, DJT, is forcing moderates to choose the exits.

This has not (yet) happened within the Dem party.
Look at the Iowa polls this weekend.
Look at Obama's comments over the weekend.

The moderate progressive wing is solid and large, and my point is that they're welcome as Dems.

I am glad you brought up President Obama's comments. He is trying desperately to prevent the Democrats from making this hard left turn. IMO his comments fall on deaf ears. I don't think there are enough moderate progressives to prevent the stampede that is occurring at present. You make a good point about moderate Republicans heading for the exits. The problem is once they exit the door, what direction do they then go? They find themselves like the old proverbial man without a country. You want to support someone or something that resembles what your core values are.

What is a person to do when you feel you have been 100% abandoned by your own party? Do you turn to the Democrats who also have nothing in common with in terms of core beliefs. I will be looking this fall for other good candidates running on a 3rd party line. There is a slight possibility the Dems will come to their senses. I doubt it but come early next year we shall find out. I really like Tulsi quite a bit. I think she could beat Trump while also attracting a lot of disillusioned Republicans who hate Trump. This is the Democrats choice to make. They would well advised to choose wisely.

cradle, I suggest you look at the Iowa polls.
Not only that Mayor Pete has a big lead, he's viewed by a wide margin as most representing the views of those polled.
He's a progressive moderate. His rise is directly related to his ideological push back on Warren.
Warren dropping fast.

why?
Well, a big, big chunk of folks in the Dem party are rejecting that hard left turn that so worries you so much.

That's no longer a possibility in the GOP.
We're forced to make a choice to back Trump and Trumpism else leave.

[MDlaxfan76]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

There is an outlier to all the R conversation however....it is Trump. Keep in mind the political R has been distancing themselves from Trump in an attempt to insulate themselves from being equally yolked to Trump. Furthermore, with the political partisan antics these first 3 years, some being of Trumps own accord, the dust has not settled enough for the strength of the entire R body to come together. Then when the D's took over the house in 2018 the R's added another layer of insulation...this has all culminated to a party unsure of their future. The additional problem, Trump is also not worried about those career R's that are indeed part of the swamp.

In the world of Trump, disruption creates opportunity via revealing strengths and weaknesses in people and process. The argument then, is this really what we all have wanted.....something to cause pain in our gov't that will promote change, real change, because simply going to to the voting box has not changed much in Washington.

Fascinating theory.
The GOP hard right supports and elects the very most swampy of creatures under the banner of "disruption".

They then insist that all moderates be drummed out of the office and out of the party under the notion that those are the 'swamp'.

While putting into positions of administrative power at each political appointee level the very most swampy of creatures in their respective areas.

If someone is inadequately swampy they get pushed out.

If their corruption or malfeasance gets exposed in the media, they get replaced by someone even swampier.

They put into place, in top life long judge positions, young men, even with zero courtroom experience, but with the right partisan credentials.

They award ambassadorships to the swampiest donors (EG Sundland who had previously been a Dem bundler for personal advantage, then GOP bundler) and set them to swamp tasks abroad.

They attack the life long servants of the American public, patriots in the IC, FBI, FS, who have put their very lives in danger again and again and again on behalf of the country they love, as "bureaucrats", "traitors", the Deep State".

And they tell themselves they're 'draining the swamp'.

and now this absurd claim...it was all done to expose how awful DC is... by doing it even swampier?

We are saying the same thing, just coming from different angles. You are explaining what happens in the backrooms of the Capitol and EEOB, my 'fascinating theory' was about the outwardly non-collective teamwork being one team. This is why people like McConnell, Grassley, Ryan, are silent only until someone gets near the front porch.

I'm still not following you, but you have me intrigued.
Can you expand a bit?

[cradleandshoot]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

cradle, you are certainly correct that the activist base in both parties are in each 'extreme'.

However, I'm not simply looking at the 'activist base'.

The difference that I'm describing is that the GOP is now all 'activist base' and/or cowed by Trump. The party has shrunk and, given its current positioning,will continue to shrink due to demographics. Its hardening behind the most extreme representation of corruption and bigotry, DJT, is forcing moderates to choose the exits.

This has not (yet) happened within the Dem party.
Look at the Iowa polls this weekend.
Look at Obama's comments over the weekend.

The moderate progressive wing is solid and large, and my point is that they're welcome as Dems.

I am glad you brought up President Obama's comments. He is trying desperately to prevent the Democrats from making this hard left turn. IMO his comments fall on deaf ears. I don't think there are enough moderate progressives to prevent the stampede that is occurring at present. You make a good point about moderate Republicans heading for the exits. The problem is once they exit the door, what direction do they then go? They find themselves like the old proverbial man without a country. You want to support someone or something that resembles what your core values are.

What is a person to do when you feel you have been 100% abandoned by your own party? Do you turn to the Democrats who also have nothing in common with in terms of core beliefs. I will be looking this fall for other good candidates running on a 3rd party line. There is a slight possibility the Dems will come to their senses. I doubt it but come early next year we shall find out. I really like Tulsi quite a bit. I think she could beat Trump while also attracting a lot of disillusioned Republicans who hate Trump. This is the Democrats choice to make. They would well advised to choose wisely.

cradle, I suggest you look at the Iowa polls.
Not only that Mayor Pete has a big lead, he's viewed by a wide margin as most representing the views of those polled.
He's a progressive moderate. His rise is directly related to his ideological push back on Warren.
Warren dropping fast.

why?
Well, a big, big chunk of folks in the Dem party are rejecting that hard left turn that so worries you so much.

That's no longer a possibility in the GOP.
We're forced to make a choice to back Trump and Trumpism else leave.

I agree about Mayor Pete. This may sound politically incorrect on my part and I could easily be wrong. IMO the powers that be in the Democrat party are very uneasy about having an openly gay man as their candidate. This may or may not be the case but their is a big chunk of the Christian Democrats that allegedly would have a hard time getting on board with Mayor Pete. Mayor Pete has the disposition but probably will fall a little short in having the ability to survive the Democrat meat grinder. Hey, if Mayor Pete winds up being their guy, they could do much worse.

[MDlaxfan76]

It used to be that you didn't have to be an idiot or deranged or corrupt or racist to be an 'acceptable' Republican (Trumpist GOP).
Those are 'or' statements, some overlap possibilities but not required.
However, it's required to be at least one.
No one else left, apparently.

Which isn't to say that there aren't idiots, deranged, corrupt or racist folks in the Dem party, but it's not a requirement to be one or more such the way it's become in the GOP.

I keep wondering whether the fever will break for those Trump supporters with underlying good character, but not yet.

You are making a miscalculation with your observation of the Democrat party. They, not unlike the Republican party have been hijacked by the radical extremes of their respective parties that do not stand for any of the core beliefs that Rs and Ds of old did. The extremes are running both sides with the folks in the middle scratching their head wondering what happened to their party. How many of these folks will be voting for a candidate for POTUS that they don't support nor do they have anything in common with. The old hold your nose and vote thing is getting very tiresome. There was a time when you could enthusiastically support your candidate because you liked and agreed with him/her.

cradle, you are certainly correct that the activist base in both parties are in each 'extreme'.

However, I'm not simply looking at the 'activist base'.

The difference that I'm describing is that the GOP is now all 'activist base' and/or cowed by Trump. The party has shrunk and, given its current positioning,will continue to shrink due to demographics. Its hardening behind the most extreme representation of corruption and bigotry, DJT, is forcing moderates to choose the exits.

This has not (yet) happened within the Dem party.
Look at the Iowa polls this weekend.
Look at Obama's comments over the weekend.

The moderate progressive wing is solid and large, and my point is that they're welcome as Dems.

I am glad you brought up President Obama's comments. He is trying desperately to prevent the Democrats from making this hard left turn. IMO his comments fall on deaf ears. I don't think there are enough moderate progressives to prevent the stampede that is occurring at present. You make a good point about moderate Republicans heading for the exits. The problem is once they exit the door, what direction do they then go? They find themselves like the old proverbial man without a country. You want to support someone or something that resembles what your core values are.

What is a person to do when you feel you have been 100% abandoned by your own party? Do you turn to the Democrats who also have nothing in common with in terms of core beliefs. I will be looking this fall for other good candidates running on a 3rd party line. There is a slight possibility the Dems will come to their senses. I doubt it but come early next year we shall find out. I really like Tulsi quite a bit. I think she could beat Trump while also attracting a lot of disillusioned Republicans who hate Trump. This is the Democrats choice to make. They would well advised to choose wisely.

cradle, I suggest you look at the Iowa polls.
Not only that Mayor Pete has a big lead, he's viewed by a wide margin as most representing the views of those polled.
He's a progressive moderate. His rise is directly related to his ideological push back on Warren.
Warren dropping fast.

why?
Well, a big, big chunk of folks in the Dem party are rejecting that hard left turn that so worries you so much.

That's no longer a possibility in the GOP.
We're forced to make a choice to back Trump and Trumpism else leave.

I agree about Mayor Pete. This may sound politically incorrect on my part and I could easily be wrong. IMO the powers that be in the Democrat party are very uneasy about having an openly gay man as their candidate. This may or may not be the case but their is a big chunk of the Christian Democrats that allegedly would have a hard time getting on board with Mayor Pete. Mayor Pete has the disposition but probably will fall a little short in having the ability to survive the Democrat meat grinder. Hey, if Mayor Pete winds up being their guy, they could do much worse.

The concern that has been voiced out loud is whether AA voters, especially older such, will be willing to rally behind a gay man. If you are white and harbor anti-gay bigotry, you're already firmly in the Trump camp. Pete will need to demonstrate that he can rally AA support, but I think there's little question that in a binary choice with Trump, AA voters will show up big time this go round regardless of whether it's Pete or Joe Biden. I think they will as well for Warren, but that potentially loses too many moderates.

Where the election will be won or lost is turnout of white suburban voters moving against Trump. We just saw this again in Louisiana, where Trump once again nationalized the choice and lost. Warren represents a real friction against that move by suburban white voters, especially in those key swing states the Dems need to win back.

[runrussellrun]

The concern that has been voiced out loud is whether AA voters, especially older such, will be willing to rally behind a gay man. If you are white and harbor anti-gay bigotry, you're already firmly in the Trump camp. Pete will need to demonstrate that he can rally AA support, but I think there's little question that in a binary choice with Trump, AA voters will show up big time this go round regardless of whether it's Pete or Joe Biden. I think they will as well for Warren, but that potentially loses too many moderates.

Where the election will be won or lost is turnout of white suburban voters moving against Trump. We just saw this again in Louisiana, where Trump once again nationalized the choice and lost. Warren represents a real friction against that move by suburban white voters, especially in those key swing states the Dems need to win back.

This is a very simple question MDlax:

Have you watched more than 3 South Park episodes in your lifetime?


It matters, because your insular experiences leave reality in the dust.

Remember, Hillaryous and Obama were anti-GAY for most of their lives......same with other Presidential Democratic candidates. Why the moronic observation that it's ONLY tRump supporters that are anti gay, preceeded by a comment that blacks (another generalization ) don't like homosexuals.

Just wondering what Trump has done to harm homosexual rights in this country. Please provide the legislation. Transgenders are NOT the same as homosexuals.

Sure you've watch Dave CHappells recent stand up , where he accurately describes the dynamic of "different" folks sexual orientation. Probably watching the horrible "The crown" about a family of thugs and oligarchs.