Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[Farfromgeneva]

But that’s only what’s recorded. That 2% clearly has to be higher since police forces themselves throughout the country have acknowledged a blue wall for a long time. So a doubling plus some would be easy to get to 5%. I can a little statistical work myself. You also support your case with anecdotal “I know good ones”. Well no turd so do I as well as knowing bad ones. But if you don’t know any bass ones of course your mind will make the leap that it’s astronomically small. Basic psychology in anchoring.

[old salt]

I'm saying that Brooks was an immediate threat to innocent lives already, just by getting there in that condition.
There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Complete rando gibberish.

Let's look at what happens if Brooks is arrested on Friday night without incident.

He spends one night in jail and is out Saturday afternoon. Since a DUI is usually a high misdemeanor or a low felony. He can (and likely will) DUI it up again whenever he wants. A typical DUI-er, according to studies, DUIs 80 to 300 times before being caught.

Let's say he'd get a jail sentence for his DUI. That might be something like two weeks to six months. He'd be totally free to DUI before and after that sentence.

So I guess Salty's policy is that we should summarily execute all first time DUI-ers -- since that's the only way to deal with their "immediate threat."

Were Salty king, several of my friends and family would have been executed. I'm guessing several of our poster on this board would have been as well.

Just pathetic and stupid.

How do you know that was his first DUI ? From the video -- he was a blackout drunk, passed out behind the wheel, who had no idea where he was. He continued to maintain that he was ok to drive.

Why assume he was not a flight risk ? He said it was a rental car. He started with a gibberish story that he was just in town to visit his mother's grave ? Then he assaulted the cops, took a weapon & fled. Why assume that it would be less dangerous to let him flee then subsequently try to take him into custody ? Based on the way he assaulted the cops, he was a threat who resorted to violence rather than being taken into custody. He would not have been easy to capture. He had a weapon, he fired it at the cop. He was a violent armed fugitive fleeing into a residential neighborhood.

It's not the cop's duty to adjudicate his case on the spot. He's required to get him off the street, into custody & let the system decide what risk he poses to the community, if he should be released & under what constraints.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'm saying that Brooks was an immediate threat to innocent lives already, just by getting there in that condition.
There was only one safe outcome -- his immediate incarceration, with adjudication initiated before he had the opportunity to get behind the wheel again. His car was his lethal weapon.

Complete rando gibberish.

Let's look at what happens if Brooks is arrested on Friday night without incident.

He spends one night in jail and is out Saturday afternoon. Since a DUI is usually a high misdemeanor or a low felony. He can (and likely will) DUI it up again whenever he wants. A typical DUI-er, according to studies, DUIs 80 to 300 times before being caught.

Let's say he'd get a jail sentence for his DUI. That might be something like two weeks to six months. He'd be totally free to DUI before and after that sentence.

So I guess Salty's policy is that we should summarily execute all first time DUI-ers -- since that's the only way to deal with their "immediate threat."

Were Salty king, several of my friends and family would have been executed. I'm guessing several of our poster on this board would have been as well.

Just pathetic and stupid.

How do you know that was his first DUI ? From the video -- he was a blackout drunk, passed out behind the wheel, who had no idea where he was. He continued to maintain that he was ok to drive.

Why assume he was not a flight risk ? He said it was a rental car. He started with a gibberish story that he was just in town to visit his mother's grave ? Then he assaulted the cops, took a weapon & fled. Why assume that it would be less dangerous to let him flee then subsequently try to take him into custody ? Based on the way he assaulted the cops, he was a threat who resorted to violence rather than being taken into custody. He would not have been easy to capture. He had a weapon, he fired it at the cop. He was a violent fugitive in a residential neighborhood.

It's not the cop's duty to adjudicate his case on the spot. He's required to get him off the street, into custody & let the system decide what risk he poses to the community, if he should be released & under what constraints.

Took a “non lethal” weapon and ran and was shot in the back twice running away.....sounds like that old joke...why did the black guy get shot.....

That cop adjudicated that case for sure....

[njbill]

Martin Gugino, the 75 year old man pushed down roughly in Buffalo, has a skull fracture and at this point cannot walk yet. Lawyer provided information to CNN via letter...

Lawyer says a long recovery process ahead.

Boo boo. Probably shouldn’t try to interrupt the police when they’re trying to clear a sidewalk.

Probably your most despicable post yet, Pete.

I hope the judge who sentences these two Gestapo cops is about 80 years old and that he gives them 10 years each.

And if, as you seem to be hoping, Gugino succumbs to his injuries, these pieces of excrement should be sentenced to life.

[jhu72]

Old X is what used to be referred to as a "race man"

… old ideas are new again in Amerikkka today.

[MDlaxfan76]

get it to X, where was your daughter's second choice?

Congrats to her for doing well there. Valedictorian is a big deal.

But yeah, all the Ivies turn away slews of brilliant kids in every class...they're looking for more than just who is smartest or who tests best. Seems a bit crazy to me, but what they look for is some particular attribute, other than just academic performance or test scores, that is truly 'world class'. Yup, that could be athletics, or creating some special charity, or winning a robotics prize, or playing the oboe...but gotta be one of the best in the world. All the admitted applicants can handle the academic load, they say, but who brings something special?

But for every admitted kid, there's probably 1-3 more who, on paper look identical to the admit. Yikes.

All that said, the comment that she would have had a better chance had she gone to Severn instead of public school is truly preposterous. If you'd said the opposite, I'd have understood how the public school background might have suggested some degree of 'grit' that they found attractive differentially, but Severn (a quite good small preppy school) would not have given a particular leg up. That application would look like many thousands of others from such schools.

So too is the 25% "other"...not remotely close.
Dunno who you talked to, but maybe you heard what you wanted to hear...

[get it to x]

I'm going to play Typical Lax Dad

Defund the police!

Defund the IRS:


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kwxx ... he-irs-431






In the world of the delusional right wing such thoughts are considered quite acceptable.

Why not? If you value equality, why not 10% flat for everyone and no IRS is necessary. We could train them to be social workers.

What is delusional is not recognizing one race is almost 8 times more likely to commit a homicide than the next highest race. Read the attached commentary. Everything he says is backed up by statistical analysis. And if you don't like the part about intelligence, remember, Asians are generally more intelligent than whites. Not specifically, generally.

Most of you libs fit the definition in the piece, basically saying that you would ask us to ignore the facts while you actually live them, by choosing to live in "safe" neighborhoods, with "good" schools. When you sell your house in Roland Park and move to Sandtown-Winchester, get back to me.

https://www.takimag.com/article/because ... e-are-bad/

The author is another well known racist.

The poster may be also



Every sub species has an exception:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_West

Those uppity black women put us in space....

Did you move to the inner city? Are you disputing the murder numbers? Or did you just take this as an opportunity to insult me? I live in a very mixed race neighborhood, with very few people who flaunt their wealth. Quite a few are probably millionaires on paper. I can tell you that zero percent think I am a racist. I'm just the guy with the nice wife and son and three cats. I get lots of smiles. Why, because I don't give people extra points because of some immutable characteristic. I give them all the same benefit of the doubt.

MDlaxfan76 would be amused by this. Our oldest child is very intelligent. Math SAT 800. She applied to Dartmouth with the second highest GPA in her HS class and 24 AP credits including calculus and physics. She graduated her "second choice" college as Valedictorian (another thing to eliminate, according to recent trends). When I called Dartmouth just to see why, I was told enrollment basically broke down among legacy, minority, sports and all other and that "all other" was roughly 25%. I did not inquire about anyone's GPA or SAT. I just said OK. Yet, when I told the admissions officer my daughter went to a public HS, I was told that if she had gone to nearby Severn School ($22k/yr at the time) she probably would have been admitted. Anyone see the inconsistency? He probably lived in a "safe neighborhood" with "nice schools" in Hanover, NH.

But you just said there’s likely paper millionaires in your hood so how are you calling anyone else out? Ever spent any time below the anacostia. In Brooklyn’s hood or south bronx? How about wretched parts of Oakland or SW Atlanta, East point, When YOU sell YOUR house in your nice neighborhood come back here and tell us since you are making proclamations about inner cities? Doing the same thing hour now whining about someone doing to you except you threw the bomb out there with a piece from a known racist and treated it like some scientific study by an agnostic person. That’s called fraud.

I spent a lot of time around black people in Baltimore City from an early age. My grandfather and his brother-in-law had a poultry stall in two of the open air markets. My brother and I were there every Saturday from the time we were about 8. I also remember delivering free turkeys with all the trimmings during Thanksgiving and Christmas in West Baltimore, where none of their customers came from.

Calling someone a racist is mostly for the lazy and unthinking who want to shield their eyes from the obvious and offer bromides, not solutions. The murder rate isn't a factor of color, it's a factor of culture and desperation. You can add what well meaning liberals have done to them by marginalizing the black man. In many cases your government program became the father, and it has proven a poor substitute for a real black man.

Did you not just intimate earlier that black people were genetically inferior and predisposed to criminality?


“What is delusional is not recognizing one race is almost 8 times more likely to commit a homicide than the next highest race. Read the attached commentary. Everything he says is backed up by statistical analysis. And if you don't like the part about intelligence, remember, Asians are generally more intelligent than whites. Not specifically, generally.”

You “a” race man....

Btw, Chinese only recently became “Asian”, based on the chart.

My point was that I was not citing the study about intelligence from any position of white superiority. I probably could have picked a better article. It did, however, point out the murder statistic, which I think most of you are completely ignoring. Unfortunately, I think blacks and police (even black police) are equally suspicious of each other, and both groups need to change if it's going to work.

[Typical Lax Dad]

get it to X, where was your daughter's second choice?

Congrats to her for doing well there. Valedictorian is a big deal.

But yeah, all the Ivies turn away slews of brilliant kids in every class...they're looking for more than just who is smartest or who tests best. Seems a bit crazy to me, but what they look for is some particular attribute, other than just academic performance or test scores, that is truly 'world class'. Yup, that could be athletics, or creating some special charity, or winning a robotics prize, or playing the oboe...but gotta be one of the best in the world. All the admitted applicants can handle the academic load, they say, but who brings something special?

But for every admitted kid, there's probably 1-3 more who, on paper look identical to the admit. Yikes.

All that said, the comment that she would have had a better chance had she gone to Severn instead of public school is truly preposterous. If you'd said the opposite, I'd have understood how the public school background might have suggested some degree of 'grit' that they found attractive differentially, but Severn (a quite good small preppy school) would not have given a particular leg up. That application would look like many thousands of others from such schools.

So too is the 25% "other"...not remotely close.
Dunno who you talked to, but maybe you heard what you wanted to hear...

Going to Severn may have been a disadvantage. I read one of the old Gilman bulletins entitled The New Selectivity. It was a pretty good piece and written from the perspective of the guidance counselor that had witnessed changes.

[Brooklyn]

Why not? If you value equality, why not 10% flat for everyone and no IRS is necessary. We could train them to be social workers.

What is delusional is not recognizing one race is almost 8 times more likely to commit a homicide than the next highest race. Read the attached commentary. Everything he says is backed up by statistical analysis. And if you don't like the part about intelligence, remember, Asians are generally more intelligent than whites. Not specifically, generally.

Most of you libs fit the definition in the piece, basically saying that you would ask us to ignore the facts while you actually live them, by choosing to live in "safe" neighborhoods, with "good" schools. When you sell your house in Roland Park and move to Sandtown-Winchester, get back to me.

https://www.takimag.com/article/because ... e-are-bad/

As has been pointed out to you already, the author Sailer is a white supremacist. If you are going to accept his premises, well that says quite a bit about your radical viewpoint. In fact, most principled conservatives would find that quite embarassing.

However, I am willing to accept some of it (though not very much) if you will alter those stats listed by including the murder of close to a million Asians by your hero Bush through his make belief illusion about WMD. Same with your other heroes in Johnson & Nixon through their murder of another million Indo-Chinese during the 60s and 70s. This will mean whites are not quite as innocent as your fellow white supremacist would have us believe.

Do we have an agreement?

[old salt]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

Just like I said, his whole attitude was wrong when he showed up when you contrast him to the first officer. He had no respect for the guy and it was patently obvious. As for sleeping behind he wheel drunk, a guy in town that owned a oil company was caught drunk driving twice in one week. The second time, he passed out and had burned all the rubber off his tires when he was stuck on a rock when the cops showed up.

Brooks was not asleep in a parked car. He was passed out behind the wheel in a moving line, blocking traffic.

Rolfe had 4 citizen complaints, all dismissed, in 7 years. He was DUI qualified, assigned that duty & on call to process suspected DUI cases. He was commended for his performance in that role. He was completely professional when processing Brooks & kept the situation from escalating.
Even Bill Bratton (MSNBC -- 11th Hour) complimented the way he handled the encounter up until the point when Brooks resisted & assaulted the officers.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'm going to play Typical Lax Dad

Defund the police!

Defund the IRS:


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kwxx ... he-irs-431






In the world of the delusional right wing such thoughts are considered quite acceptable.

Why not? If you value equality, why not 10% flat for everyone and no IRS is necessary. We could train them to be social workers.

What is delusional is not recognizing one race is almost 8 times more likely to commit a homicide than the next highest race. Read the attached commentary. Everything he says is backed up by statistical analysis. And if you don't like the part about intelligence, remember, Asians are generally more intelligent than whites. Not specifically, generally.

Most of you libs fit the definition in the piece, basically saying that you would ask us to ignore the facts while you actually live them, by choosing to live in "safe" neighborhoods, with "good" schools. When you sell your house in Roland Park and move to Sandtown-Winchester, get back to me.

https://www.takimag.com/article/because ... e-are-bad/

The author is another well known racist.

The poster may be also



Every sub species has an exception:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_West

Those uppity black women put us in space....

Did you move to the inner city? Are you disputing the murder numbers? Or did you just take this as an opportunity to insult me? I live in a very mixed race neighborhood, with very few people who flaunt their wealth. Quite a few are probably millionaires on paper. I can tell you that zero percent think I am a racist. I'm just the guy with the nice wife and son and three cats. I get lots of smiles. Why, because I don't give people extra points because of some immutable characteristic. I give them all the same benefit of the doubt.

MDlaxfan76 would be amused by this. Our oldest child is very intelligent. Math SAT 800. She applied to Dartmouth with the second highest GPA in her HS class and 24 AP credits including calculus and physics. She graduated her "second choice" college as Valedictorian (another thing to eliminate, according to recent trends). When I called Dartmouth just to see why, I was told enrollment basically broke down among legacy, minority, sports and all other and that "all other" was roughly 25%. I did not inquire about anyone's GPA or SAT. I just said OK. Yet, when I told the admissions officer my daughter went to a public HS, I was told that if she had gone to nearby Severn School ($22k/yr at the time) she probably would have been admitted. Anyone see the inconsistency? He probably lived in a "safe neighborhood" with "nice schools" in Hanover, NH.

But you just said there’s likely paper millionaires in your hood so how are you calling anyone else out? Ever spent any time below the anacostia. In Brooklyn’s hood or south bronx? How about wretched parts of Oakland or SW Atlanta, East point, When YOU sell YOUR house in your nice neighborhood come back here and tell us since you are making proclamations about inner cities? Doing the same thing hour now whining about someone doing to you except you threw the bomb out there with a piece from a known racist and treated it like some scientific study by an agnostic person. That’s called fraud.

I spent a lot of time around black people in Baltimore City from an early age. My grandfather and his brother-in-law had a poultry stall in two of the open air markets. My brother and I were there every Saturday from the time we were about 8. I also remember delivering free turkeys with all the trimmings during Thanksgiving and Christmas in West Baltimore, where none of their customers came from.

Calling someone a racist is mostly for the lazy and unthinking who want to shield their eyes from the obvious and offer bromides, not solutions. The murder rate isn't a factor of color, it's a factor of culture and desperation. You can add what well meaning liberals have done to them by marginalizing the black man. In many cases your government program became the father, and it has proven a poor substitute for a real black man.

Did you not just intimate earlier that black people were genetically inferior and predisposed to criminality?


“What is delusional is not recognizing one race is almost 8 times more likely to commit a homicide than the next highest race. Read the attached commentary. Everything he says is backed up by statistical analysis. And if you don't like the part about intelligence, remember, Asians are generally more intelligent than whites. Not specifically, generally.”

You “a” race man....

Btw, Chinese only recently became “Asian”, based on the chart.

My point was that I was not citing the study about intelligence from any position of white superiority. I probably could have picked a better article. It did, however, point out the murder statistic, which I think most of you are completely ignoring. Unfortunately, I think blacks and police (even black police) are equally suspicious of each other, and both groups need to change if it's going to work.

Nahhh you picked the right article. It was consistent with your stated views.....Who said all black cops are good cops? Didn’t you see the two fired this past weekend for using excessive force against two black college kids?

Poor White people kill poor white people, poor black people kill poor black people, poor Hispanic people kill poor Hispanic people...you notice a theme?

[Typical Lax Dad]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

Just like I said, his whole attitude was wrong when he showed up when you contrast him to the first officer. He had no respect for the guy and it was patently obvious. As for sleeping behind he wheel drunk, a guy in town that owned a oil company was caught drunk driving twice in one week. The second time, he passed out and had burned all the rubber off his tires when he was stuck on a rock when the cops showed up.

Brooks was asleep in a parked car. He was passed out behind the wheel in a moving line, blocking traffic.

Rolfe had 4 citizen complaints, all dismissed, in 7 years. He was DUI qualified, assigned that duty & on call to process suspected DUI cases. He was commended for his performance in that role. He was completely professional when processing Brooks & kept the situation from escalating.
Even Bill Bratton (MSNBC -- 11th Hour) complimented the way he handled the encounter up until the point when Brooks resisted & assaulted the officers.

Rolfe was fired and lost his job. Enough said. He was complimented until he shot a drunk guy in the back.

[MDlaxfan76]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

What percent of police do you think are 'bad apples', farfromgeneva?

It's an interesting question, for sure PB.

What do you think?
5, 10, 20, 30?

Let's say it's 5.
I think it's considerably higher, just based upon my handful of interactions with police as a general citizen, either as a witness to an accident or as a victim or as someone just walking down the street. At least a quarter of my interactions as an adult, a well off white guy by appearance, have been downright uncomfortable, clear lack of respect for me as a citizen shown by the officer. Not 100%, but WAY too often. I've had lots of good interactions as well, but too many were just not remotely ok.

And I'm not a young black man, whether in a neighborhood plagued by crime...or driving a nice car or running down the street in a wealthy or middle class neighborhood...

The more problematic question than what percent are 'bad apples', though, is why and how they were hired in the first place, and most importantly why and how they remain in blue for so long. What is about the police and policing that turns a blind eye to these 'bad apples'? Over and over and over again...until maybe someone catches them on film...

Seems to me that some of these folks are attracted to the power associated with carrying a badge and a gun, the uniform, etc. I've met too many of this type.

Part of it is the 'blue', this notion of being in a warlike posture, gotta have my buddies' back to survive, etc.

And part of it is the ongoing racist presumptions, a persistent reality of our society.

See post above, but your answers show why you are on the wrong side. It's no higher than 5%, and I actually think it's closer to 2%.

Support your police and support reforms.

Geneva's response suffices.

But, heck, I'll say 2% if it makes you happy...but how do they stay on the force and commit abuse after abuse after abuse after abuse after abuse......

Whole bunch of others, (by definition not 'bad apples') who turn a blind eye or otherwise protect them from scrutiny.

Again, my limited experience, a white guy who presumably doesn't look like he poses a particular threat to anyone nor acts like he would, is that in 25+% of my interactions I found myself feeling quite disrespected as a common citizen. I didn't expect any special treatment, but the disrespect, the bossy, puffed up militaristic attitude of the policeman (haven't had it happen with a police woman as yet) was enough to make me really not ok, disconcertingly so.

I recall several years ago my 80 year old, conservative dad telling me that he had come to very much believe the stories blacks were telling of the disrespect and abuse they felt, because he'd recently been treated disrespectfully...just trying to be a helpful, first hand witness to an accident. He was really PO'd, yet he said it had certainly not been the first time he'd felt like a policeman was way too full of himself and his gun and uniform...

[jhu72]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

What percent of police do you think are 'bad apples', farfromgeneva?

It's an interesting question, for sure PB.

What do you think?
5, 10, 20, 30?

Let's say it's 5.
I think it's considerably higher, just based upon my handful of interactions with police as a general citizen, either as a witness to an accident or as a victim or as someone just walking down the street. At least a quarter of my interactions as an adult, a well off white guy by appearance, have been downright uncomfortable, clear lack of respect for me as a citizen shown by the officer. Not 100%, but WAY too often. I've had lots of good interactions as well, but too many were just not remotely ok.

And I'm not a young black man, whether in a neighborhood plagued by crime...or driving a nice car or running down the street in a wealthy or middle class neighborhood...

The more problematic question than what percent are 'bad apples', though, is why and how they were hired in the first place, and most importantly why and how they remain in blue for so long. What is about the police and policing that turns a blind eye to these 'bad apples'? Over and over and over again...until maybe someone catches them on film...

Seems to me that some of these folks are attracted to the power associated with carrying a badge and a gun, the uniform, etc. I've met too many of this type.

Part of it is the 'blue', this notion of being in a warlike posture, gotta have my buddies' back to survive, etc.

And part of it is the ongoing racist presumptions, a persistent reality of our society.

It is a complex question where lines have to be drawn carefully. A really bad COP, one who under no circumstance should be a COP is probably no more than 5%. The real problem is the military culture and humans just being humans of having each others backs, not wanting to snitch, not understanding their mission, etc. The corruption that creeps into all large organizations - police forces and unions. The twenty COPs who cover for the one bad COP are the real problem. Their duty is to society and the people they police. That has largely been lost. Go along to get along in a corrupt system.

[MDlaxfan76]

get it to X, where was your daughter's second choice?

Congrats to her for doing well there. Valedictorian is a big deal.

But yeah, all the Ivies turn away slews of brilliant kids in every class...they're looking for more than just who is smartest or who tests best. Seems a bit crazy to me, but what they look for is some particular attribute, other than just academic performance or test scores, that is truly 'world class'. Yup, that could be athletics, or creating some special charity, or winning a robotics prize, or playing the oboe...but gotta be one of the best in the world. All the admitted applicants can handle the academic load, they say, but who brings something special?

But for every admitted kid, there's probably 1-3 more who, on paper look identical to the admit. Yikes.

All that said, the comment that she would have had a better chance had she gone to Severn instead of public school is truly preposterous. If you'd said the opposite, I'd have understood how the public school background might have suggested some degree of 'grit' that they found attractive differentially, but Severn (a quite good small preppy school) would not have given a particular leg up. That application would look like many thousands of others from such schools.

So too is the 25% "other"...not remotely close.
Dunno who you talked to, but maybe you heard what you wanted to hear...

Going to Severn may have been a disadvantage. I read one of the old Gilman bulletins entitled The New Selectivity. It was a pretty good piece and written from the perspective of the guidance counselor that had witnessed changes.

Yes, a disadvantage, not an advantage.

Is that fair?
Well, I'm ok with it, chose to send my son to Gilman (another selective, preppy school) because it's a terrific educational environment with great classmates...if that put him at a disadvantage in applying to college, it was a price my wife (public school valedictorian) and I were willing to pay, (along with the tuition!)

He turned out ok.

[Brooklyn]

Martin Gugino, the 75 year old man pushed down roughly in Buffalo, has a skull fracture and at this point cannot walk yet. Lawyer provided information to CNN via letter...

Lawyer says a long recovery process ahead.

Boo boo. Probably shouldn’t try to interrupt the police when they’re trying to clear a sidewalk.

^ A demonstration of PB's disregard for the 1st Amendment and his love of the police state.

[Farfromgeneva]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

Just like I said, his whole attitude was wrong when he showed up when you contrast him to the first officer. He had no respect for the guy and it was patently obvious. As for sleeping behind he wheel drunk, a guy in town that owned a oil company was caught drunk driving twice in one week. The second time, he passed out and had burned all the rubber off his tires when he was stuck on a rock when the cops showed up.

Brooks was not asleep in a parked car. He was passed out behind the wheel in a moving line, blocking traffic.

Rolfe had 4 citizen complaints, all dismissed, in 7 years. He was DUI qualified, assigned that duty & on call to process suspected DUI cases. He was commended for his performance in that role. He was completely professional when processing Brooks & kept the situation from escalating.
Even Bill Bratton (MSNBC -- 11th Hour) complimented the way he handled the encounter up until the point when Brooks resisted & assaulted the officers.

Up until the point is still irrelevant. You keep
Typing it but it doesn’t mean a thing if it’s followed by a murder. Why doesn’t that seem to make sense to you? Leave the militaristic beliefs off our streets.

[MDlaxfan76]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

What percent of police do you think are 'bad apples', farfromgeneva?

It's an interesting question, for sure PB.

What do you think?
5, 10, 20, 30?

Let's say it's 5.
I think it's considerably higher, just based upon my handful of interactions with police as a general citizen, either as a witness to an accident or as a victim or as someone just walking down the street. At least a quarter of my interactions as an adult, a well off white guy by appearance, have been downright uncomfortable, clear lack of respect for me as a citizen shown by the officer. Not 100%, but WAY too often. I've had lots of good interactions as well, but too many were just not remotely ok.

And I'm not a young black man, whether in a neighborhood plagued by crime...or driving a nice car or running down the street in a wealthy or middle class neighborhood...

The more problematic question than what percent are 'bad apples', though, is why and how they were hired in the first place, and most importantly why and how they remain in blue for so long. What is about the police and policing that turns a blind eye to these 'bad apples'? Over and over and over again...until maybe someone catches them on film...

Seems to me that some of these folks are attracted to the power associated with carrying a badge and a gun, the uniform, etc. I've met too many of this type.

Part of it is the 'blue', this notion of being in a warlike posture, gotta have my buddies' back to survive, etc.

And part of it is the ongoing racist presumptions, a persistent reality of our society.

It is a complex question where lines have to be drawn carefully. A really bad COP, one who under no circumstance should be a COP is probably no more than 5%. The real problem is the military culture and humans just being humans of having each others backs, not wanting to snitch, not understanding their mission, etc. The corruption that creeps into all large organizations - police forces and unions. The twenty COPs who cover for the one bad COP are the real problem. Their duty is to society and the people they police. That has largely been lost. Go along to get along in a corrupt system.

I'd buy that definition, as the truly awful are likely just a small %, the rest could be terrific if the culture was dramatically different.

And yeah, it's the 20 who cover for the 1 that are the problem in why this persists.

[Farfromgeneva]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

What percent of police do you think are 'bad apples', farfromgeneva?

It's an interesting question, for sure PB.

What do you think?
5, 10, 20, 30?

Let's say it's 5.
I think it's considerably higher, just based upon my handful of interactions with police as a general citizen, either as a witness to an accident or as a victim or as someone just walking down the street. At least a quarter of my interactions as an adult, a well off white guy by appearance, have been downright uncomfortable, clear lack of respect for me as a citizen shown by the officer. Not 100%, but WAY too often. I've had lots of good interactions as well, but too many were just not remotely ok.

And I'm not a young black man, whether in a neighborhood plagued by crime...or driving a nice car or running down the street in a wealthy or middle class neighborhood...

The more problematic question than what percent are 'bad apples', though, is why and how they were hired in the first place, and most importantly why and how they remain in blue for so long. What is about the police and policing that turns a blind eye to these 'bad apples'? Over and over and over again...until maybe someone catches them on film...

Seems to me that some of these folks are attracted to the power associated with carrying a badge and a gun, the uniform, etc. I've met too many of this type.

Part of it is the 'blue', this notion of being in a warlike posture, gotta have my buddies' back to survive, etc.

And part of it is the ongoing racist presumptions, a persistent reality of our society.

It is a complex question where lines have to be drawn carefully. A really bad COP, one who under no circumstance should be a COP is probably no more than 5%. The real problem is the military culture and humans just being humans of having each others backs, not wanting to snitch, not understanding their mission, etc. The corruption that creeps into all large organizations - police forces and unions. The twenty COPs who cover for the one bad COP are the real problem. Their duty is to society and the people they police. That has largely been lost. Go along to get along in a corrupt system.

Wouldn’t corrupt and “bad apple” be largely synonymous?

[cradleandshoot]

So, anyone ready to acknowledge this fact.

Turns out the police golden boy Rolfe has 12 incidents in a 7 yr career including a written reprimand for “a use of force incident involving a firearm” in 2017.

Brosnan, the more professional one, yet to have anything in his record over 2 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/atlanta-of ... 41?mod=mhp

What percent of police do you think are 'bad apples', farfromgeneva?

It's an interesting question, for sure PB.

What do you think?
5, 10, 20, 30?

Let's say it's 5.
I think it's considerably higher, just based upon my handful of interactions with police as a general citizen, either as a witness to an accident or as a victim or as someone just walking down the street. At least a quarter of my interactions as an adult, a well off white guy by appearance, have been downright uncomfortable, clear lack of respect for me as a citizen shown by the officer. Not 100%, but WAY too often. I've had lots of good interactions as well, but too many were just not remotely ok.

And I'm not a young black man, whether in a neighborhood plagued by crime...or driving a nice car or running down the street in a wealthy or middle class neighborhood...

The more problematic question than what percent are 'bad apples', though, is why and how they were hired in the first place, and most importantly why and how they remain in blue for so long. What is about the police and policing that turns a blind eye to these 'bad apples'? Over and over and over again...until maybe someone catches them on film...

Seems to me that some of these folks are attracted to the power associated with carrying a badge and a gun, the uniform, etc. I've met too many of this type.

Part of it is the 'blue', this notion of being in a warlike posture, gotta have my buddies' back to survive, etc.

And part of it is the ongoing racist presumptions, a persistent reality of our society.

See post above, but your answers show why you are on the wrong side. It's no higher than 5%, and I actually think it's closer to 2%.

Support your police and support reforms.

Geneva's response suffices.

But, heck, I'll say 2% if it makes you happy...but how do they stay on the force and commit abuse after abuse after abuse after abuse after abuse......

Whole bunch of others, (by definition not 'bad apples') who turn a blind eye or otherwise protect them from scrutiny.

Again, my limited experience, a white guy who presumably doesn't look like he poses a particular threat to anyone nor acts like he would, is that in 25+% of my interactions I found myself feeling quite disrespected as a common citizen. I didn't expect any special treatment, but the disrespect, the bossy, puffed up militaristic attitude of the policeman (haven't had it happen with a police woman as yet) was enough to make me really not ok, disconcertingly so.

I recall several years ago my 80 year old, conservative dad telling me that he had come to very much believe the stories blacks were telling of the disrespect and abuse they felt, because he'd recently been treated disrespectfully...just trying to be a helpful, first hand witness to an accident. He was really PO'd, yet he said it had certainly not been the first time he'd felt like a policeman was way too full of himself and his gun and uniform...

I hear what you are saying. I know this will surprise you. When I was a yute I had a couple of run in with the police. Nothing serious or criminal. I did find out that back in the 70s if you got porky with a cop, you would get a slobberknocker to the head. Once you have been tagged teamed in the back of a patrol car by the boys in blue, the memory stick with you. I have no doubt that way too many cops out there should not be patrolling the streets.