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Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:04 pm
by 8meterPA
Have been thinking about this for a while - seems like the literal break-neck speed at which women's college lacrosse is growing is causing significant issues with the amount of and quality of head coaches that are available to fill the vacancies from turnover and fill the new positions. Growth for growth's sake can actually cause more harm than good? Maybe it's time to put the brakes on for a while and figure out a way to groom the next group of potential coaches.
I just can't remember this many programs having this kind of turnover this late in the year. I understand that maybe 90%+ may not care or realize that schools like Bucknell, American, St. Bonaventure, Presbyterian and the half dozen others have had coaching issues, they are not big name lacrosse schools. I went back and read the resume of the American coach, and no disrespect to her, she had a very nice career as a player...but you have to question if she was was ready to be a head coach?
Anyway just thinking out loud, passing time until Feb 1st.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:40 pm
by LaxGuy17
8meterPA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:04 pm
Have been thinking about this for a while - seems like the literal break-neck speed at which women's college lacrosse is growing is causing significant issues with the amount of and quality of head coaches that are available to fill the vacancies from turnover and fill the new positions. Growth for growth's sake can actually cause more harm than good? Maybe it's time to put the brakes on for a while and figure out a way to groom the next group of potential coaches.
I just can't remember this many programs having this kind of turnover this late in the year. I understand that maybe 90%+ may not care or realize that schools like Bucknell, American, St. Bonaventure, Presbyterian and the half dozen others have had coaching issues, they are not big name lacrosse schools. I went back and read the resume of the American coach, and no disrespect to her, she had a very nice career as a player...but you have to question if she was was ready to be a head coach?
Anyway just thinking out loud, passing time until Feb 1st.
Agree it is a little disconcerting to see coaches dropping this close to the season, and it does feel a bit more this year, but I’m not sure pumping the brakes on expansion is the best answer. Maybe the NCAA or ILWCA can do a bit more training for assistants or maybe the backgrounds could be vetted a bit more. I think I would rather see other solutions explored before we slow what has been terrific growth of the women’s game.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:30 pm
by Downhill Dodger
8meterPA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:04 pm
Have been thinking about this for a while - seems like the literal break-neck speed at which women's college lacrosse is growing is causing significant issues with the amount of and quality of head coaches that are available to fill the vacancies from turnover and fill the new positions. Growth for growth's sake can actually cause more harm than good? Maybe it's time to put the brakes on for a while and figure out a way to groom the next group of potential coaches.
I just can't remember this many programs having this kind of turnover this late in the year. I understand that maybe 90%+ may not care or realize that schools like Bucknell, American, St. Bonaventure, Presbyterian and the half dozen others have had coaching issues, they are not big name lacrosse schools. I went back and read the resume of the American coach, and no disrespect to her, she had a very nice career as a player...but you have to question if she was was ready to be a head coach?
Anyway just thinking out loud, passing time until Feb 1st.
I think you hit the nail on the head, these schools are hiring coaches that might not be ready to run a D1 program in a positive, productive fashion. Given what went down at AU that is certainly the case. The problem is women's lacrosse is still being administered as an afterthought by a large number of athletic departments and things get out of hand because no one is minding the store and managing these coaches to prevent situations from happening. Its a lose lose all around for the athletic department, the coaches and most importantly the players.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:32 pm
by laxfan22
I'm not sure that these coaches leaving have anything to do with the growth of the sport. It appears that these are conduct issues - while i have no idea what precisely occurred, this is more a common sense issue and perhaps -perhaps- an athletic department issue at it is incumbent on the AD at these schools to set down parameters of what is expected from the coaches, regardless of sport.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:56 pm
by casuallaxfan
There are lots of current coaches/former players that can be very good college coaches, but the pay (for the non top-top programs) and time commitment make it very prohibitive.
Like i've said before, you can teach High School and coach the team in a hot bed area and make much more money (and its still not a lot) than you would for leading many of these programs. And your HS team would be more talented in many cases.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:28 am
by LaxPundit07
I don't think this is about a lack of qualified candidates. It is about a lack of commitment to the sport from athletic administrations/universities. You get what you pay for! You can't attract older, more qualified candidates with salaries so low. Outside of your Power 5 schools, coaches are not making a "breadwinner's" salary. Therefore married with kids candidates, with significantly more life experience, are not drawn to these positions because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. What qualified 40 year old with three kids wants to leave their family all summer (recruiting trail), travel all spring, and work 12 hours a day, for $45,000/year?
You want more qualified and mature candidates, you have to pay for them. Period. Otherwise you end up hiring 25-30 year olds with hardly any life/working experience, no parenting experience, and ask them to travel the country, look after 25 18-22 year olds, balance a budget, divy out scholarships, etc.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:58 pm
by Downhill Dodger
LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:28 am
I don't think this is about a lack of qualified candidates. It is about a lack of commitment to the sport from athletic administrations/universities. You get what you pay for! You can't attract older, more qualified candidates with salaries so low. Outside of your Power 5 schools, coaches are not making a "breadwinner's" salary. Therefore married with kids candidates, with significantly more life experience, are not drawn to these positions because the juice isn't worth the squeeze. What qualified 40 year old with three kids wants to leave their family all summer (recruiting trail), travel all spring, and work 12 hours a day, for $45,000/year?
You want more qualified and mature candidates, you have to pay for them. Period. Otherwise you end up hiring 25-30 year olds with hardly any life/working experience, no parenting experience, and ask them to travel the country, look after 25 18-22 year olds, balance a budget, divy out scholarships, etc.
LaxPundit, very well said. Add in the pressure to win and move up to a higher paying job and you have a recipe for instability and turnover. These schools are the mid majors of lacrosse but are not recognized as such, as they compete often with top 30 teams. The funny thing is when you do the math, these inexperienced coaches who make mistakes and are hired on the cheap, end up costing the Universities much more in payouts, lost tuition, turnover and fee's than if they paid a higher salary number. I know one of the schools is looking at over 200k in lost revenue from players leaving. If the Universities were smart they would create a lacrosse/ adjunct professor path that would result in higher pay and the ability to attract more well rounded candidates, as well as provide more continuity and stability.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:08 am
by Dniddie
What exactly happened at AU and Bucknell??
Re: Fresno State Lacrosse Head Coach resigns
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:40 pm
by wlaxnut
This would have fit nicely under the previously established thread entitled "Coaching Carousel"
Re: Fresno State Lacrosse Head Coach resigns
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:28 am
by Bart
If there is a saving grace in this situation it would be that the interim coach was previously a head coach at the Division I level, St Francis. At the least, she has run a program at that level.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:32 pm
by HVGuy
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:16 pm
by Dr. Tact
Sounds like an administrator type to help the two young assistants with some of the non X and O issues. Have to think that Ronbeck and Lopez will be doing the most "Coaching". I wish her good luck!
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:02 pm
by laxfan22
Wasn't it unusual for the coach at American to bring in two assistants who have never coached? I get taking one, but (as someone who has never coached at this level), I'd think you'd want the other assistant to have some experience on the sideline, no? Now, American has two first time coaches and an administrator.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:12 pm
by Downhill Dodger
laxfan22 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:02 pm
Wasn't it unusual for the coach at American to bring in two assistants who have never coached? I get taking one, but (as someone who has never coached at this level), I'd think you'd want the other assistant to have some experience on the sideline, no? Now, American has two first time coaches and an administrator.
Hence part of the reason why the former HC is no longer there. Didnt want any experience who would question her vision or actions, she made big mistakes and paid for it with her job. More maturity on that staff would have avoided the issues Current HC is a caretaker to babysit for the spring and to bridge to a national search
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:05 pm
by HVGuy
Looks like the Bonnies have their coach just in time for the opener
https://gobonnies.sbu.edu/sports/w-lacr ... A?view=bio
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:20 pm
by Matnum PI
Ray Donovan is the new St. Bonnie's coach?
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:01 pm
by 8meterPA
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:20 pm
Ray Donovan is the new St. Bonnie's coach?
Interesting hire, hope it works out.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:17 pm
by njbill
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:20 pm
Ray Donovan is the new St. Bonnie's coach?
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:22 pm
by Nigel
8meterPA wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:01 pm
Matnum PI wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:20 pm
Ray Donovan is the new St. Bonnie's coach?
Interesting hire, hope it works out.
Agreed. 0-17 last year so nowhere to go but up. It would nice to see them build toward respectability. He's got about 35 on the roster, hopefully he can mold them into a team.
Re: Coaching Carousel
Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:00 am
by wlaxnut
I know it's old news but it's interesting that Maryland great Megan Whittle followed Spencer from Dartmouth to Stanford and now serves as the OC.