President Donald J. Trump—Part ll

[NattyBohChamps04]

The discourse over here is more civil than the D3 forum.

Well, to be fair I don't think we've had any MA people here in a long time. Correlation?

[a fan]

When was the last time a secret service agent was killed in the line of duty? By no means am I questioning their service to our nation, but anyone have the answer to that?

My search couldn't find any.

[old salt]

I wonder what the explanation is for not getting him off the stage as soon as the call went out about a possible shooter...did the immediate detail know but not act?

It was reported that the escape vehicle was not yet in place. The protocol was to make a human bunker until verified that shooter(s) were neutralized & escape vehicle in place.

[cradleandshoot]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

[jhu72]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

[cradleandshoot]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

[jhu72]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

....

Trump campaign were told / warned. This will come out in the hearings. The SS won't take the fall by themselves for the site, and their higher ups will support them if the Trump campaign was warned and signed off, ie., if the SS followed process.

PS -- the SS is massively understaffed. Has been for years.

[MDlaxfan76]

I wonder what the explanation is for not getting him off the stage as soon as the call went out about a possible shooter...did the immediate detail know but not act?

It was reported that the escape vehicle was not yet in place. The protocol was to make a human bunker until verified that shooter(s) were neutralized & escape vehicle in place.

"not yet in place"?

Ok, then the question is why not?...and what's the protocol when a shooter is spotted but has not yet pulled the trigger and not neutralized? Surely it isn't to blithely go along with a speech, right? You at least pull him from the stage, surround him with the "human bunker" until you have confirmation of safety...right? All fine, return to speech...

So, why did that not even begin to happen if they had minutes between spotting the shooting threat and the actual shots?

These seem to me to be fair questions, no conclusions.

[cradleandshoot]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

....

Trump campaign were told / warned. This will come out in the hearings. The SS won't take the fall by themselves for the site, and their higher ups will support them if the Trump campaign was warned and signed off, ie., if the SS followed process.

PS -- the SS is massively understaffed. Has been for years.

My son applied for a position with the secret service. The deal breaker for him was having no choice where you would be assigned to. They are massively understaffed because the training is very intense and the washout rate is high. Dedicating more funding will get you more candidates. If you don't have the right stuff to begin with your not going to make. It does not matter where the location is or what party is having the event. The secret service is tasked to provide security and make it happen. Whatever the security plan was it was arranged and organized by the secret service. No way in hell the secret service will ever admit they are incapable of doing the job they are assigned to so. They may not like the assignment but there job is to make it happen.

They normally perform this mission flawlessly. This past Saturday they dropped the ball for reasons that will soon be looked into with a fine tooth comb. There are many tough questions that will be asked and the higher ups at the secret service had better have answers ready.

[Kismet]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

....

Trump campaign were told / warned. This will come out in the hearings. The SS won't take the fall by themselves for the site, and their higher ups will support them if the Trump campaign was warned and signed off, ie., if the SS followed process.

PS -- the SS is massively understaffed. Has been for years.

Some SS sources complaining that prep and coverage for the RNC Convention is Milwaukee diverted resources that could have been applied to the rally

[MDlaxfan76]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

....

Trump campaign were told / warned. This will come out in the hearings. The SS won't take the fall by themselves for the site, and their higher ups will support them if the Trump campaign was warned and signed off, ie., if the SS followed process.

PS -- the SS is massively understaffed. Has been for years.

My son applied for a position with the secret service. The deal breaker for him was having no choice where you would be assigned to. They are massively understaffed because the training is very intense and the washout rate is high. Dedicating more funding will get you more candidates. If you don't have the right stuff to begin with your not going to make. It does not matter where the location is or what party is having the event. The secret service is tasked to provide security and make it happen. Whatever the security plan was it was arranged and organized by the secret service. No way in hell the secret service will ever admit they are incapable of doing the job they are assigned to so. They may not like the assignment but there job is to make it happen.

They normally perform this mission flawlessly. This past Saturday they dropped the ball for reasons that will soon be looked into with a fine tooth comb. There are many tough questions that will be asked and the higher ups at the secret service had better have answers ready.

cradle,
The SS has limited resources and is tasked with many events, with varying levels of resources applied to such. They do not have the manpower themselves to control all situations, especially if a candidate wishes to relax elements of the security for the purposes of the campaign. Which is more typical than not. So, they coordinate with local and state police to augment what they can and provide expertise that a local police force may not have for such.

Clearly there were security lapses in this event. Surely the SS will be implicated to some extent in those lapses, at least in managing the overall execution, but there are very likely other players involved, both local policing and the campaign.

Let's let this play out before rushing to any conclusions other than there was indeed a lapse.

[Typical Lax Dad]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

....

Trump campaign were told / warned. This will come out in the hearings. The SS won't take the fall by themselves for the site, and their higher ups will support them if the Trump campaign was warned and signed off, ie., if the SS followed process.

PS -- the SS is massively understaffed. Has been for years.

My son applied for a position with the secret service. The deal breaker for him was having no choice where you would be assigned to. They are massively understaffed because the training is very intense and the washout rate is high. Dedicating more funding will get you more candidates. If you don't have the right stuff to begin with your not going to make. It does not matter where the location is or what party is having the event. The secret service is tasked to provide security and make it happen. Whatever the security plan was it was arranged and organized by the secret service. No way in hell the secret service will ever admit they are incapable of doing the job they are assigned to so. They may not like the assignment but there job is to make it happen.

They normally perform this mission flawlessly. This past Saturday they dropped the ball for reasons that will soon be looked into with a fine tooth comb. There are many tough questions that will be asked and the higher ups at the secret service had better have answers ready.

cradle,
The SS has limited resources and is tasked with many events, with varying levels of resources applied to such. They do not have the manpower themselves to control all situations, especially if a candidate wishes to relax elements of the security for the purposes of the campaign. Which is more typical than not. So, they coordinate with local and state police to augment what they can and provide expertise that a local police force may not have for such.

Clearly there were security lapses in this event. Surely the SS will be implicated to some extent in those lapses, at least in managing the overall execution, but there are very likely other players involved, both local policing and the campaign.

Let's let this play out before rushing to any conclusions other than there was indeed a lapse.

We need more loyal Secret Service agents. Maybe Trump will establish something like a Republican Guard to protect him next term? He could start with some Proud Boys.

[cradleandshoot]

CNN reported earlier today that the Secret Service has said they delegated responsibility for securing that rooftop to local law enforcement. Didn’t say precisely which local law enforcement agency.

Regardless, one would think the Secret Service agent in charge would take a look to see whether that roof had been secured before Trump was allowed up on the podium. When he saw it wasn’t, he should not have allowed Trump on the stage.

Yeah, I know, I have zero training and experience in law-enforcement, but that’s what I think about the situation.

That should not be very difficult to verify. The security plan would have gone into great detail what responsibility of each law enforcement agency was. Someone certainly in the leadership level of secret service would have had to approve it and sign off on it.

... someone from Trump's campaign would have to signoff as well, the SS is not putting their neck on the line without the client. They should never have picked that site. That was Trump's team's fault. I would guess the SS warned against the site when they saw it.

Secret service gets antsy at any open air venue. It complicates the security protocols. At the end of the day providing security is their mission in life. Trying to pass the blame onto trumps team is nonsensical.

... I forgot King Trump is infallible, and he should get what he wants no matter the reality -- he can always blame his mistakes on someone else. The SS didn't pick that site, whoever did made a mistake. The SS protocol was clearly not able to handle that open of a site. They clearly didn't have the manpower necessary. That was clearly Joe Biden's fault, because he schedules the SS.

The secret service had ample time to come up with a security plan. If they needed more people all they needed to do was request them. All of these hearings that will soon take place should be able to identify the security shortcomings. The secret service may be uncomfortable with the task at hand. They sure as hell are never going to tell higher ups they are incapable of handling the security assignment handed to them. Failure is not an option has evolved into whiny people griping that they can't do their job.

....

Trump campaign were told / warned. This will come out in the hearings. The SS won't take the fall by themselves for the site, and their higher ups will support them if the Trump campaign was warned and signed off, ie., if the SS followed process.

PS -- the SS is massively understaffed. Has been for years.

My son applied for a position with the secret service. The deal breaker for him was having no choice where you would be assigned to. They are massively understaffed because the training is very intense and the washout rate is high. Dedicating more funding will get you more candidates. If you don't have the right stuff to begin with your not going to make. It does not matter where the location is or what party is having the event. The secret service is tasked to provide security and make it happen. Whatever the security plan was it was arranged and organized by the secret service. No way in hell the secret service will ever admit they are incapable of doing the job they are assigned to so. They may not like the assignment but there job is to make it happen.

They normally perform this mission flawlessly. This past Saturday they dropped the ball for reasons that will soon be looked into with a fine tooth comb. There are many tough questions that will be asked and the higher ups at the secret service had better have answers ready.

cradle,
The SS has limited resources and is tasked with many events, with varying levels of resources applied to such. They do not have the manpower themselves to control all situations, especially if a candidate wishes to relax elements of the security for the purposes of the campaign. Which is more typical than not. So, they coordinate with local and state police to augment what they can and provide expertise that a local police force may not have for such.

Clearly there were security lapses in this event. Surely the SS will be implicated to some extent in those lapses, at least in managing the overall execution, but there are very likely other players involved, both local policing and the campaign.

Let's let this play out before rushing to any conclusions other than there was indeed a lapse.

I'm 100% for letting the investigation and the investigators come to their own conclusions. What I disagree with vehemently is the suggestion that the secret service is too woefully understaffed to do the job they are tasked to do. When needed there are plenty of highly qualified federal law enforcement agencies that can augment the secret service when and if needed. There is the FBI, The US Marshall service, The Federal Air Marshall service and a variety of law enforcement agencies that train extensively for high profile security assignments.

When my son was a FAM he was once attached to the secret service for a security detail in DC that involved added security at Reagan International. If the secret service felt they needed additional high level security officers all they had to do was ask. If their request was denied then you document and take note of who shot your request down. One thing I guarantee you will not hear at any congressional investigation will be the director of the secret service admitting they didn't have the personnel to do their job.

There was an expression I heard a 1000 times when I was in the army... The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters. I'm sure that holds true for the secret service. I have no doubt they are understaffed. That doesn't change the fact they have to adapt and overcome and successfully complete the mission assigned to them. To coin another cliche...failure is not an option.

[njbill]

You coined that expression? Wow! I never knew.

[Essexfenwick]

It all just plays into the narrative that the government sucks even with unlimited money printing and borrowing. The majority of the government is incompetent and overpaid. Meanwhile only Trump can overcome the sloppy, slovenly and somewhat smelly behemoth staffed by partisan low-lifes treading water in a sea of mental midget sexuality and horrible results.

[ggait]

I wonder what the explanation is for not getting him off the stage as soon as the call went out about a possible shooter...did the immediate detail know but not act?

It was reported that the escape vehicle was not yet in place. The protocol was to make a human bunker until verified that shooter(s) were neutralized & escape vehicle in place.

Heard that the bunting at the front of the stage is bullet proof. So once trump is down behind that, he is pretty safe.

[ggait]

It all just plays into the narrative that the government sucks even with unlimited money printing and borrowing. The majority of the government is incompetent and overpaid. Meanwhile only Trump can overcome the sloppy, slovenly and somewhat smelly behemoth staffed by partisan low-lifes treading water in a sea of mental midget sexuality and horrible results.

Boycott stupid. He will be suspended by the Admin soon enough.

[WaffleTwineFaceoff]

The SS has limited resources and is tasked with many events, with varying levels of resources applied to such. They do not have the manpower themselves to control all situations, especially if a candidate wishes to relax elements of the security for the purposes of the campaign. Which is more typical than not. So, they coordinate with local and state police to augment what they can and provide expertise that a local police force may not have for such.

Clearly there were security lapses in this event. Surely the SS will be implicated to some extent in those lapses, at least in managing the overall execution, but there are very likely other players involved, both local policing and the campaign.

Let's let this play out before rushing to any conclusions other than there was indeed a lapse.

Regarding "Limited resources": https://rollcall.com/2024/07/14/amid-te ... ed-budget/

Highlights:
- "But the result was a more than 9 percent increase for overall Secret Service appropriations in fiscal 2024, to nearly $3.1 billion, exceeding President Joe Biden’s request by $78 million."

- The overall “protective operations” category — the main source of funding for day-to-day protection of presidents, vice president and their families as well as former presidents and their spouses — was funded at $1.4 billion, a 24 percent increase and again exceeding the president’s request. Within that total, money specifically for presidential campaigns and “national security special events,” like the nominating conventions, more than tripled over the previous fiscal year, to $244 million.



############

Curious about your take here "especially if a candidate wishes to relax elements of security for purposes of campaign". Do you have a specific citation? Regardless, I will make a presumption that any "relax security requests" didn't okay the elimination of overwatch on building roofs with direct sight lines a football field and a half away from outdoor speech podiums?

############

A great deal of information unfolded yesterday including footage of alleged shooter more than a half hour before the shots were fired, acting strangely, and (allegedly) this being noted by law enforcement.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sig ... -111966629

In this day and age of cell phone video, some exceptionally worrisome snippets have been shared since the event, and thankfully so. The notoriously unreliable eyewitness data (gathered only by eyeballs) of the past has been replaced with camera footage using devices in everyone's pocket that are superior to state of the art news cameras of not too long ago. Doesn't mean everything captured and posted is reliable or useable. But it means the chances of something that IS reliable and useable being captured and shared – that we otherwise wouldn't have – is much greater. This data, assessed by experts, can help investigators unravel what really happened. And also prevent things from being buried or dismissed.

[old salt]

I wonder what the explanation is for not getting him off the stage as soon as the call went out about a possible shooter...did the immediate detail know but not act?

It was reported that the escape vehicle was not yet in place. The protocol was to make a human bunker until verified that shooter(s) were neutralized & escape vehicle in place.

"not yet in place"?

Ok, then the question is why not?...and what's the protocol when a shooter is spotted but has not yet pulled the trigger and not neutralized? Surely it isn't to blithely go along with a speech, right? You at least pull him from the stage, surround him with the "human bunker" until you have confirmation of safety...right? All fine, return to speech...

So, why did that not even begin to happen if they had minutes between spotting the shooting threat and the actual shots?

These seem to me to be fair questions, no conclusions.

Apparently they park it away from the stage & have to back it up to a loading spot just off the stairway -- the spot where they loaded it.

Apparently the protocol is to stay down, maintain the human bunker, until the command center verifies that the shooter is down & clears them to get up, move to the escape vehicle & drive away.

Obviously, the agents protecting Trump were not notified that there was a shooter until after the first shots were fired.

Did the command center determine that there was a possible shooter before the first shots were fired, or were they just looking for a suspicious person ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I wonder what the explanation is for not getting him off the stage as soon as the call went out about a possible shooter...did the immediate detail know but not act?

It was reported that the escape vehicle was not yet in place. The protocol was to make a human bunker until verified that shooter(s) were neutralized & escape vehicle in place.

"not yet in place"?

Ok, then the question is why not?...and what's the protocol when a shooter is spotted but has not yet pulled the trigger and not neutralized? Surely it isn't to blithely go along with a speech, right? You at least pull him from the stage, surround him with the "human bunker" until you have confirmation of safety...right? All fine, return to speech...

So, why did that not even begin to happen if they had minutes between spotting the shooting threat and the actual shots?

These seem to me to be fair questions, no conclusions.

Apparently they park it away from the stage & have to back it up to a loading spot just off the stairway -- the spot where they loaded it.

Apparently the protocol is to stay down, maintain the human bunker, until the command center verifies that the shooter is down & clears them to get up, move to the escape vehicle & drive away.

Obviously, the agents protecting Trump were not notified that there was a shooter until after the first shots were fired.

Did the command center determine that there was a possible shooter before the first shots were fired, or were they just looking for a suspicious person ?

I wonder if the Mayor or Nancy Pelosi is responsible for the poor security?