Dartmouth Men's Lacrosse

[MDlaxfan76]

Any thoughts on why they didn't play Hincks? I'm all for showing love to other players, but at the end of the day you need to get wins where you can. Hind sight is 20/20, so understand the thought of getting Christopher a game... but also a game to play your top line to get the W.

no idea
Hope not injury

[sguy9]

I am not sure how I feel about the goalie switch, if it was indeed an opportunity to let Christopher play. Yes, Dartmouth needs a win. But please remember that Christopher was very good as a freshman and started strong last year until he scored, celebrated, and snapped his ankle. Up until that moment it looked as though he was the guy for the foreseeable future.

Hincks has played very well as a freshman. Is this going to be a trend, find a guy, commit to him for a short time, then pull him for someone younger? Or, is Hincks injured? Or, were they giving Christopher a game?

Weather was great yesterday, snowing, raw, windy... Up by 1 with the ball a minute and change left, need to close that one out. Don't say it's because they need to learn how to win, you can't tell me Hartford knows how to win. When was their last good season? The Towers era? Rorke Green filling up the cage? When Tracey Keluski was sniping?

Fingers crossed an Ivy team takes a day off vs Dartmouth so they can sneak 1 out.

[DCIII]

To be fair, Christopher's injury (that which put him out for the year) was a broken thumb/hand from a shot in practice.

Up by 1 with a minute and change and couldn't complete a 10 yard uncontested pass from the D to M for an easy clear. Turnovers are bad but these are BAD turnovers; I mean it is nauseating how simple exchanges are going awry. To make it worse, increasingly it seems like there is an "oh well" attitude amongst the Coaches and a lot of the players. I see the same "oh well" attitude after a lot of the dumb penalties. At one point yesterday we went down 2 for pushing two different players into the crease. How many times does that happen in a season for most teams? Last Saturday we went down two for two offside calls. (once again...once you go offside you cant return onside and go back offside).

There appears to be little or no consequence for players turning over the ball, missing the net wildly or shooting without backup. Some would say it's a bi-product of a lack of depth. I say it's a bi-product of a lack of corrective measures and an unwillingness to try something else. Most Coaches would be sitting people and exhausting the bench at this point.

Look at the stats, we have starting or regular:
- middie(s) that have more turnovers than SOG.
- middie(s) shooting less than 30%
- poles that have more turnovers than caused turnovers.

Sorry, but this play is simply exhausting my patience and loyalty.

[sguy9]

To be fair, Christopher's injury (that which put him out for the year) was a broken thumb/hand from a shot in practice.

After he hurt his ankle when teammate tried to hug him after he scored form 65 yards out and missed a few games. Came back, then broke thumb/hand...

Either way, the kid can make stops. I don't disagree with giving him a start, Hincks is playing well but they aint winning, give the other kid some time.

[MDlaxfan76]

To be fair, Christopher's injury (that which put him out for the year) was a broken thumb/hand from a shot in practice.

After he hurt his ankle when teammate tried to hug him after he scored form 65 yards out and missed a few games. Came back, then broke thumb/hand...

Either way, the kid can make stops. I don't disagree with giving him a start, Hincks is playing well but they aint winning, give the other kid some time.

Assuming no injury or other factor to which we're not privy, this sort of thing is indeed always a question, how do you get a guy playing time who has done everything he might to deserve time, yet has another tender ahead of him on the depth chart?

Usually you do that by getting him into games as early as practical once the game is well in hand. But those situations are currently elusive for the Big Green.

The problem with giving your #2 the start is that it can send a message that this is a game that you (as coach) are not worried about winning. Or worse, that it's not 'important'. Either of those messages can demotivate the team, the kiss of death.

My first two years in Hanover I got every start in which the foregone conclusion was that we were going to lose, likely by a big margin. The junior Peter Lea seemed to get every start in which the foregone conclusion was that we'd win. The likely contested games we never knew until game day.

He was a very fine tender and better than me out of the goal (or at least that's what Dud kept telling me). But the pattern eventually became obvious that I was going to get the beatings.

The really crazy thing was that we often wouldn't know who was starting until literally the day of the game.

Now, that messed with your head! That was particularly hard for me my sophomore year, Pete's senior year, and he had an excellent season in his games.

Once he'd graduated, the clarity really helped my game (plus the stats against lesser opponents!). My back-up was my classmate Rob Ruocco who'd played 2 years of JV...very fine goalie, had won the Island at Huntington HS, terrific guy, but there wasn't any back and forth that year.

My senior year, Rob dropped and I was backed up by junior Randy Bodner who'd also played 2 years of JV, very close friend. Freshman Jimmy Ulcickas played for the JV a year, then moved up to the starter position his sophomore year and was an AA in his best year. Following Ulcickas was Jay Pyne who had great stats as well. We had a good run of tenders throughout the '70's and 80's.

My bottomline, Peter Lea absolutely deserved playing time. I had a tough time managing how it was done, but I never thought, particularly in retrospect, that he didn't deserve his opportunities to play. And he made the most of them. Good guy.

I don't know whether that's what was intended in this game, but maybe. Christopher is a more than competent tender and I assume has been working hard. But it could have been an illness or injury...

[MDlaxfan76]

To be fair, Christopher's injury (that which put him out for the year) was a broken thumb/hand from a shot in practice.

Up by 1 with a minute and change and couldn't complete a 10 yard uncontested pass from the D to M for an easy clear. Turnovers are bad but these are BAD turnovers; I mean it is nauseating how simple exchanges are going awry. To make it worse, increasingly it seems like there is an "oh well" attitude amongst the Coaches and a lot of the players. I see the same "oh well" attitude after a lot of the dumb penalties. At one point yesterday we went down 2 for pushing two different players into the crease. How many times does that happen in a season for most teams? Last Saturday we went down two for two offside calls. (once again...once you go offside you cant return onside and go back offside).

There appears to be little or no consequence for players turning over the ball, missing the net wildly or shooting without backup. Some would say it's a bi-product of a lack of depth. I say it's a bi-product of a lack of corrective measures and an unwillingness to try something else. Most Coaches would be sitting people and exhausting the bench at this point.

Look at the stats, we have starting or regular:
- middie(s) that have more turnovers than SOG.
- middie(s) shooting less than 30%
- poles that have more turnovers than caused turnovers.

Sorry, but this play is simply exhausting my patience and loyalty.

DCIII, can't argue with your frustration.
I don't know about the 'oh well' attitude you're suggesting that coaches and players have as I haven't been at any games in person, so can't see the interactions, the body language.

I assume you are closer.

But on the roster, I'm not really following you as to which middies you would suggest PT for over guys not performing. Do you see guys on that roster who would have a higher shooting % or fewer dumb mistakes or TO's? I'm looking at the stats guys have from whatever time they've seen. Is there someone in specific, or multiple guys in specific, who strikes you as someone who really should be on the field instead?

I'm seeing the same issues with a few of the players, but I'm not as clear as you may be as to who has shown they'd be better.

Is there a specific pole who should be on the field? Who would you replace?

[wahoomurf]

That's Bill Ritch ? HOLY HAT! In that photo,Coach Pissant looks 25 years younger than he did when he was screaming at his Sewanhaka teams...and of course the refs.NH must be a snow-bound Fountain of Youth.


IMG_0428 copy.jpg

He was indeed quite the character. His face would get all red when we screwed up. Classic was when he threw his clipboard down (which he did frequently) and it stuck sidewise into the ground.

He had quite the mouth on him too...absolutely hated (or sure made it sound like it)... the preppy kitties from Princeton (many of whom happened to be my HS buddies).

It was very difficult to get a word of praise out of him. He did grunt 'good job' to me after our upset of Cornell. I don't recall any others!

But our 'lax IQ' jumped a big notch when he got to Hanover.

Longest HS win streak in history (longer than St. Pauls), Long Island Lacrosse Club, Hall of Fame.

He formed an all-star team of L.I. school players to play what he referred to as "those the white color,Baltimore prep guys". We played at St.Paul's school....and lost 12-11. Two of the guys I played against became college teammates and good friends.

He was one helluva character and a lacrosse savant.

[PrimeTime21]

Please don’t talk about the coach. Until you see the Dartmouth faithful stop protecting this couch he will get an extension. I have been saying for 5 years this coach could not coach a b team travel team no less an Ivy League team. Md will tell you I am trolling but I haven’t been wrong yet they are like a cult. He will read box score and believe he can convince people the game wasn’t that bad

What ever could you mean? I think it's completely clear that the Dartmouth Men's Lax program is in amazing shape. I think a fully-guaranteed 20 year extension sounds like a marvelous idea. Maybe at some point in the 2020s they win a league game. I mean, not every team has the advantages to select a team to beat the St. John's, Umass-Lowells and Hartfords of the world. Baby steps

[MDlaxfan76]

...Lots of DC trolls, making poor attempts to disguise themselves as “concerned” fans.
If you were a true fan, you would know, DC student athletes need no “pity”...

Indeed, some real knucklehead trolls.

I quite agree re Heart and Pride, and no 'pity'.

Geez, "people in Fairfield County" don't like how Towers was treated...wow, big deal, even if true.

And, huh, "baggage handlers"? What kind of dirtbag talks that way about kids, any kids, much less young men going to college, playing ball, pulling up their pants the same way as the rest of us?

Heck of a start for post #1.

This was my response to your very first post "Prime Time".
Another alias for 97?
Or just another disgruntled parent whose kid didn't get in during the transition?
Or one whose kid was cut (I do have a lot of sympathy about that unfortunate situation, just not the vitriol).

The former coach himself used to post under multiple aliases on LP, which was downright weird.

Here's all I can say about the current coaching situation. While there's frustration about W's, Dartmouth is pleased with the improvement in the 'culture' of the program, most especially the performance off the field by the players, in and out of the classroom.

Included in recent note from Callahan:

I also want to recognize our men for their efforts in the classroom during the winter term that just ended. Our team GPA of a 3.32 was the highest on record for this program during winter term. We also had 39 out of our 43 men above a 3.0 for the term. Impressive stuff, and I was proud of how the team balanced their school work while being in season.


BTW, Callahan is blunt about the shortcomings in his notes.

There's very legitimate concern about the play on the field. Catching, throwing, hitting the cage, etc. We'd seen some real improvement over the past few games on TO's, but Tuesday was back to awful.

We see significant fight, in most games, on the GB battle, but are getting destroyed at X. Injury. 2 FOGO's arriving next class.

The loss to injury of the senior 2X All-Ivy defenseman, Captain Austin Meacham, nominee for CLASS Award (one of 30 D1 lax players nominated), should not be underestimated in our defense and clearing, TO's. On field leadership.
https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2019/3 ... ?path=mlax

This is a very young bunch of players, but not yet enough overall talent/experience at each position to be a truly complete team.

That all said, Coach Callahan, like any coach, has to build a team, both staff and players, that actually wins on the field, regularly. He won't have forever to do so. But my sense is that he's built some good will due to the improved off field culture that will give him more of a runway than not. But not forever.

There appears to be significant (but badly needed) progress on funding, enabling more coaches (finally) and more attractive salaries. The indoor facility is being built and is expected to enable far better winter and bad weather preparation. This has always been an issue, but we're fundamentally too far behind both our Ivy peers much less the rest of D1 in being ready for the season. The facility will help for 2021, maybe in time for 2020.

But stop with the trolling.

[HooDat]

But stop with the trolling.

it (trolling) sure isn't going to help the program attract more talent.

For anyone who has an affinity for DC lacrosse, there is constructive debate and criticism, and then there is just trying to tear down a program/staff.

I really don't understand an Ivy League fan base that puts wins over off-the field performance. I judge my alma mater on the basis of STUDENT athletes not the other way around - I would expect the same for an Ivy League alumni base and their school.

[MDlaxfan76]

But stop with the trolling.

it (trolling) sure isn't going to help the program attract more talent.

For anyone who has an affinity for DC lacrosse, there is constructive debate and criticism, and then there is just trying to tear down a program/staff.

I really don't understand an Ivy League fan base that puts wins over off-the field performance. I judge my alma mater on the basis of STUDENT athletes not the other way around - I would expect the same for an Ivy League alumni base and their school.

Yes.
And you and I believe that such priority need not, ultimately, be in conflict with W's.
Not at your alma mater, nor at Dartmouth.

I think I can say pretty darn definitively that's how the vast majority of the actual Dartmouth alumni fan base feel.

Of course, some posters here really can't be called Dartmouth lacrosse alumni base. Nor even fans of Dartmouth or even Ivy lacrosse more generally.

[RumorMill]

That being the background, the questions I woud ask are: are the players reasonably happy with the coach, is the product on the field becoming better, and does the recruiting appear to be improving?

I think this is a good question. Have any of the "Friends" of the program, or anyone who actually has a "say" in what happens reached out to the 2018 Alums who were on the team. They spent 4 years under the current HC, what's their perspective and feedback?

Problem right now is that the "trolls" have too much food to eat and all that can be thrown at them are excuses and hopes for a better future.

[Ghost]

So far, you can say 1 thing for this Dartmouth team- they have Heart...
Can anyone Point to a team that averages 2 wins/season
FO % < 35% , and still competes for 60 at 100%
That said... let’s see how they respond after embarrassing last minute loss, for their final 3 games against Princeton, Penn, Brown...

[PrimeTime21]

...Lots of DC trolls, making poor attempts to disguise themselves as “concerned” fans.
If you were a true fan, you would know, DC student athletes need no “pity”...

Indeed, some real knucklehead trolls.

I quite agree re Heart and Pride, and no 'pity'.

Geez, "people in Fairfield County" don't like how Towers was treated...wow, big deal, even if true.

And, huh, "baggage handlers"? What kind of dirtbag talks that way about kids, any kids, much less young men going to college, playing ball, pulling up their pants the same way as the rest of us?

Heck of a start for post #1.

This was my response to your very first post "Prime Time".
Another alias for 97?
Or just another disgruntled parent whose kid didn't get in during the transition?
Or one whose kid was cut (I do have a lot of sympathy about that unfortunate situation, just not the vitriol).

The former coach himself used to post under multiple aliases on LP, which was downright weird.

Here's all I can say about the current coaching situation. While there's frustration about W's, Dartmouth is pleased with the improvement in the 'culture' of the program, most especially the performance off the field by the players, in and out of the classroom.

Included in recent note from Callahan:

I also want to recognize our men for their efforts in the classroom during the winter term that just ended. Our team GPA of a 3.32 was the highest on record for this program during winter term. We also had 39 out of our 43 men above a 3.0 for the term. Impressive stuff, and I was proud of how the team balanced their school work while being in season.


BTW, Callahan is blunt about the shortcomings in his notes.

There's very legitimate concern about the play on the field. Catching, throwing, hitting the cage, etc. We'd seen some real improvement over the past few games on TO's, but Tuesday was back to awful.

We see significant fight, in most games, on the GB battle, but are getting destroyed at X. Injury. 2 FOGO's arriving next class.

The loss to injury of the senior 2X All-Ivy defenseman, Captain Austin Meacham, nominee for CLASS Award (one of 30 D1 lax players nominated), should not be underestimated in our defense and clearing, TO's. On field leadership.
https://dartmouthsports.com/news/2019/3 ... ?path=mlax

This is a very young bunch of players, but not yet enough overall talent/experience at each position to be a truly complete team.

That all said, Coach Callahan, like any coach, has to build a team, both staff and players, that actually wins on the field, regularly. He won't have forever to do so. But my sense is that he's built some good will due to the improved off field culture that will give him more of a runway than not. But not forever.

There appears to be significant (but badly needed) progress on funding, enabling more coaches (finally) and more attractive salaries. The indoor facility is being built and is expected to enable far better winter and bad weather preparation. This has always been an issue, but we're fundamentally too far behind both our Ivy peers much less the rest of D1 in being ready for the season. The facility will help for 2021, maybe in time for 2020.

But stop with the trolling.

Apologetics on fleek. Impressive.

Clearly everything is working great. Making non scholarship players carry logs in the snow in New Hampshire is productive and has a ton to do with winning games. Cutting non scholarship volunteer players is a great way to win morale. You’re right. Huge “progress” is being made.

Enjoy the product you pay for

[sguy9]

Making non scholarship players carry logs in the snow in New Hampshire is productive and has a ton to do with winning games. Cutting non scholarship volunteer players is a great way to win morale. You’re right. Huge “progress” is being made.

Well. Plenty of teams/corporations/military groups use these team building exercise to grow closer, weed out those not on board etc. Cutting happens when new leadership comes in, why do you think a change was made. Clearly the coach thought there were guys that were not on board. Was this the right way to do it, what do I know, but it's what this leader felt was the right path to take steps forward. It sounds like the culture off the field is much better, is that because certain players were let go? maybe. But for people to keep coming on here (LP too) and bash decisions made about personnel 3 years ago is getting boring. Look at this years group, evaluate them, then comment.

I am not saying what was done in the past was right, but what about the now? They aren't winning, are they improving? Are the next few classes strong? Is this leader leading?

[wahoomurf]

Tommy Rogan, a 2 sport star at Chaminade H.S. (Mineola, Long Island,N.Y.),is heading to Hanover. Many thought he'd go to Yale where his father played quarter back for Cozza. Moreover,Shay and Moran are on each other's speed dial.And there's always a few Chaminade guys on the Yale team.Nonetheless he chose Dartmouth.

Perhaps Callahan can develop a similar pipeline to Dartmouth as the one Yale/Shay has developed with Moran. Rogan,a great student-athlete and a terrific young man,is the type of young man to start the flow.

[MDlaxfan76]

Making non scholarship players carry logs in the snow in New Hampshire is productive and has a ton to do with winning games. Cutting non scholarship volunteer players is a great way to win morale. You’re right. Huge “progress” is being made.

Well. Plenty of teams/corporations/military groups use these team building exercise to grow closer, weed out those not on board etc. Cutting happens when new leadership comes in, why do you think a change was made. Clearly the coach thought there were guys that were not on board. Was this the right way to do it, what do I know, but it's what this leader felt was the right path to take steps forward. It sounds like the culture off the field is much better, is that because certain players were let go? maybe. But for people to keep coming on here (LP too) and bash decisions made about personnel 3 years ago is getting boring. Look at this years group, evaluate them, then comment.

I am not saying what was done in the past was right, but what about the now? They aren't winning, are they improving? Are the next few classes strong? Is this leader leading?

Let's be clear, once again (boy, this gets old!): There are folks out there who are ticked off, because either

1) their buddies (coaches) were fired, or
2) their kid got lost in the re-boot, or
3) their kid got cut.

They're going to root against this coach, no matter what.
Fine.

Here's where I come down, re the trolls:
We don't want you as part of the program. Ever.
Everything we need to know about you is on display each time you troll.

You know what really ticks me off? The constant belittlement of the teams and their players who beat Dartmouth, at whom you look down your noses.

Talk about a lack of class: "baggage handlers".

[MDlaxfan76]

Tommy Rogan, a 2 sport star at Chaminade H.S. (Mineola, Long Island,N.Y.),is heading to Hanover. Many thought he'd go to Yale where his father played quarter back for Cozza. Moreover,Shay and Moran are on each other's speed dial.And there's always a few Chaminade guys on the Yale team.Nonetheless he chose Dartmouth.

Perhaps Callahan can develop a similar pipeline to Dartmouth as the one Yale/Shay has developed with Moran. Rogan,a great student-athlete and a terrific young man,is the type of young man to start the flow.

It would be terrific to see that pipeline be successful.

[redlacrosse]

Post #1 of 1 on the new forum. If you are satisfied with the direction of the program, fine. If you are not satisfied with being ranked in the low 60’s year after year, fine. Recruiting will not be hurt by this forum as anything that is posted is already public knowledge, well before it is written about on any forum. All of the recruits already know what is going on. However, we have listened year after year to every possible excuse as to why this program struggles to win. There is a constant factor. Throw me in the trolls or deplorables bucket, I do not care. Yes, I am a fan of Dartmouth lacrosse and I want them to succeed. Yes, I do give my money to another sport at Dartmouth. And I now feel no remorse for not giving to the lacrosse program, as I see how the lacrosse program apparently views it’s alum and their parents.

[PrimeTime21]

Post #1 of 1 on the new forum. If you are satisfied with the direction of the program, fine. If you are not satisfied with being ranked in the low 60’s year after year, fine. Recruiting will not be hurt by this forum as anything that is posted is already public knowledge, well before it is written about on any forum. All of the recruits already know what is going on. However, we have listened year after year to every possible excuse as to why this program struggles to win. There is a constant factor. Throw me in the trolls or deplorables bucket, I do not care. Yes, I am a fan of Dartmouth lacrosse and I want them to succeed. Yes, I do give my money to another sport at Dartmouth. And I now feel no remorse for not giving to the lacrosse program, as I see how the lacrosse program apparently views it’s alum and their parents.

Yes, the Great Leap Forward of D lacrosse has been entirely virtuous. Who are we to question the “Cultural Revolution.” All of the “bad actors” have now been removed from the program and happy days are ahead.

I think MD would be a tremendous propagandist. Nobody should defend losing so passionately