Coaching Carousel 2022-2023

[Brownlax]

A good friend of mine who is a top college coach (National Champs) said a great quote: "Lacrosse is being overplayed and under coached." I think this is especially true in the world of women's NCAA lacrosse. There are so many good schools (I'm just focused on D1 right now) that have tremendous academic backgrounds and just some really bad lacrosse. The carousel keeps spinning and these schools just don't get better. There are fewer examples of new coaches coming in and making impacts on their programs than those who are just happy with the staus quo of losing. Some of these schools are very sort after so it should not be that hard to bring in good talent and then develop that talent.

[watcherinthewoods]

agree 100% ... coaches who develop players are the exception rather than the rule. why? maybe because it is easier to focus on the next class, rather than build with what you have. there are notable exceptions (JMU, some Ivies, etc.) but ask yourself how many "top recruits" have actually gotten better over the course of 4 years or is the coach relying on the next crop of "top recruits" to carry the day?

[Dasher]

Women’s college lax (and men’s too) is an amateur sport played while getting a degree.


This feels dated to me. Apologizing for my rant in advance--
BECAUSE:

...The idea that a D1 athlete is 'free" to pick any major is nonsensical at most schools. STEM programs top NOGO zones. It can be done, but likely not encouraged. Check rosters for majors and proof.

...With some college tuitions approaching $90K a year, scholarship values soar. Competition for them intensifies. Students-Athletes "jobs" require an insane time commitment, before, during, and in the off season. That wasn't the case years ago. Not having a scholarship didn't always mean not being able to afford the school you were attending. Now that is the reality of the situation for many.

...NILs have entered the room. Top programs have already attracted players with NIL money. Program Alumni are ALL devising plans for athletes to be distributed NIL money (Ask around). NIL's will need to be part of any successful programs repertoire going forward.
And ..they start in HS. Equipment brands have handed out many starter checks of $7500 to top HS players. New wave is coming.

...Coaches salaries and additional monies earned from camps, clinics, etc. add a serious wrinkle to the competitive landscape as figures soar. Winning more attracts more campers.

... And sadly HS and youth participation in sports overall has declined incredibly. Blame it on sports specific focus at early ages, or club/travel teams influence etc., but costs have made playing organized sports more and more out of reach economically.
This doesn't feel like and old school "amateurs" ' environment anymore.

I could go on but i hope you get my point.

P.S. If the argument is this is women's lacrosse and it's just different that is an unfortunate view.

[Brownlax]

Women’s college lax (and men’s too) is an amateur sport played while getting a degree.


This feels dated to me. Apologizing for my rant in advance--
BECAUSE:

...The idea that a D1 athlete is 'free" to pick any major is nonsensical at most schools. STEM programs top NOGO zones. It can be done, but likely not encouraged. Check rosters for majors and proof.

...With some college tuitions approaching $90K a year, scholarship values soar. Competition for them intensifies. Students-Athletes "jobs" require an insane time commitment, before, during, and in the off season. That wasn't the case years ago. Not having a scholarship didn't always mean not being able to afford the school you were attending. Now that is the reality of the situation for many.

...NILs have entered the room. Top programs have already attracted players with NIL money. Program Alumni are ALL devising plans for athletes to be distributed NIL money (Ask around). NIL's will need to be part of any successful programs repertoire going forward.
And ..they start in HS. Equipment brands have handed out many starter checks of $7500 to top HS players. New wave is coming.

...Coaches salaries and additional monies earned from camps, clinics, etc. add a serious wrinkle to the competitive landscape as figures soar. Winning more attracts more campers.

... And sadly HS and youth participation in sports overall has declined incredibly. Blame it on sports specific focus at early ages, or club/travel teams influence etc., but costs have made playing organized sports more and more out of reach economically.
This doesn't feel like and old school "amateurs" ' environment anymore.

I could go on but i hope you get my point.

P.S. If the argument is this is women's lacrosse and it's just different that is an unfortunate view.

Thanks for the post but what does this have to do with the coaching carousel?

[Dasher]

Womenslaxxfan post saying that’s why coaches don’t get let go for on field performance. That’s it’s just an amateur sport while you get a degree. I didn’t know how to attach her quote

[Womenslaxxfan]

Womenslaxxfan post saying that’s why coaches don’t get let go for on field performance. That’s it’s just an amateur sport while you get a degree. I didn’t know how to attach her quote

We can agree to disagree.

It’s a hobby. A hobby I love but a hobby. Nobody makes a living in it. Nor will they in the next 20 years. Charlotte north is the most famous women’s lax athlete ever and she makes less than a first year Goldman Sachs analyst.

Most colleges get that the number one priority is to provide their non revenue athletes with a good blend of academics and athletics. For top academic schools, the non revenue sports like women’s lax and field hockey make up for the low gpas of other teams.

And if you send your daughter who has interest in stem or some other major to a school whose coach discourages those pursuits, then you are officially a parent who has lost the forest for the trees….

[laxlaxlax]

Looks like Brown will be under new leadership next season

https://brownbears.com/news/2023/5/4/w ... coach.aspx

[watcherinthewoods]

Looks like Brown will be under new leadership next season

https://brownbears.com/news/2023/5/4/w ... coach.aspx

LONG overdue. Maybe they can entice Dani Spencer to come back to the Ivy League since she swung and missed at ACC and BIg 10 ... !

[NattyBohChamps04]

Louisville is an interesting school. A lot of ups and downs in the entire athletic department since all the issues a few years back from the AD on down to a few coaches over various sports. A horrific men's basketball season this year and amazing women's basketball and volleyball seasons recently.

A lot of stabilization was needed for 2018, and things seem to be much smoother staff-wise. But 3 ACC wins and 2 Top 25 wins (both vs Colorado) in the past 3 years and new teams beating them? A few close games to good teams too, but the seat may be getting warm.

All that being said, I hope they have a great 2024 season and can get back to being an elite program.

[Brownlax]

Looks like Brown will be under new leadership next season

https://brownbears.com/news/2023/5/4/w ... coach.aspx

LONG overdue. Maybe they can entice Dani Spencer to come back to the Ivy League since she swung and missed at ACC and BIg 10 ... !

Never reached the NCAA tournament, never made the Ivy League Tournament. Too many players leaving the program over her tenure.

[sanelaxparent]

It's such a turnoff to read the same posters taking shots at their "targets" over and over. We get it, you don't like Stanford or Duke or insert least favorite coach. It says more about you and your negativity (ego?) than it does sometimes about the lacrosse program in question. I love NCAA lacrosse and I come to this forum occasionally seeking insight, especially from people who are the games live......but tough to "listen" to adults hiding behind anonymity tearing down certain programs or coaches over and over.

[Brownlax]

It's such a turnoff to read the same posters taking shots at their "targets" over and over. We get it, you don't like Stanford or Duke or insert least favorite coach. It says more about you and your negativity (ego?) than it does sometimes about the lacrosse program in question. I love NCAA lacrosse and I come to this forum occasionally seeking insight, especially from people who are the games live......but tough to "listen" to adults hiding behind anonymity tearing down certain programs or coaches over and over.

Not looking to get into a fight. But this is a lacrosse forum where lacrosse gets discussed including coaches. It’s my belief that there is more that is unsaid on these forums rather than what’s actually said.

[Wheels,Wheels!]

Will agree that this is a forum and coaches are fair game. Especially, for some members, who come looking for the unsaid details that truly expose the leaders of these teams. This particular thread is about coaches and the movement of coaches both good and bad, perceived and real, no need to be turned off. There is plenty of “live” threads.

[PhanLax99]

Brown is an interesting job in the scope of the Ivy League. Soccer and Lacrosse only building (I think Yale is the only other one that has a facility specific to them). Finished 5th in the league this year (after tie breakers). Always seems to come up with a big win but just can't consistently string wins together. With Yale and Harvard starting to figure things out, I think it is going to be hard to break into the top 4 on a consistent basis. I see them going NESCAC or high academic assistant. My list would include:

Nick Williams- Assistant at Duke
Courtney Shute- HC at Tufs
Kerri Whittiker (sp?)- Penn Assistant

Not really sure who else would be in the mix for it!

[Can Opener]

It's such a turnoff to read the same posters taking shots at their "targets" over and over. We get it, you don't like Stanford or Duke or insert least favorite coach. It says more about you and your negativity (ego?) than it does sometimes about the lacrosse program in question. I love NCAA lacrosse and I come to this forum occasionally seeking insight, especially from people who are the games live......but tough to "listen" to adults hiding behind anonymity tearing down certain programs or coaches over and over.

Fair point and thanks for your perspective. If someone has a specific critique of a coach's lacrosse strategy, I'd say that's fair game, but I agree that a few posters seem to grind the same axe over and over.

[Can Opener]

Brown is an interesting job in the scope of the Ivy League. Soccer and Lacrosse only building (I think Yale is the only other one that has a facility specific to them). Finished 5th in the league this year (after tie breakers). Always seems to come up with a big win but just can't consistently string wins together. With Yale and Harvard starting to figure things out, I think it is going to be hard to break into the top 4 on a consistent basis. I see them going NESCAC or high academic assistant. My list would include:

Nick Williams- Assistant at Duke
Courtney Shute- HC at Tufs
Kerri Whittiker (sp?)- Penn Assistant

Not really sure who else would be in the mix for it!

I would love to see Brown make a bold choice by going young and hiring Sam Apuzzo. She has a Tewaaraton, a masters degree and four years of coaching experience. What she lacks in organizational experience, she would more than make up for in recruiting juice and energy. What high school recruit wouldn't want to play for her and learn from her? Syracuse hired Kayla Treanor while in her 20s and Connor Buczek was named head coach of the Cornell men only five years after graduating from Cornell. Those two choices have worked out pretty well. Brown will probably take the safe route and go with a top D1 assistant or NESCAC head coach, but I think the program needs something more dramatic to win an Ivy championship.

[Brownlax]

From the brown Press release:

“McDonald served as head coach from 2004 through 2023. Under her guidance, Brown had a 117-146 record and a 32-89 Ivy League record.”

That’s a tough Ivy League record over 20 years. That’s about 1.5 wins per year.

[LoriML60]

This post is spot on. My daughter graduated last year from a program that fits this bill exactly. The players played the last half of their senior season without a head coach and still managed to make their conference tournament for the first time in years. The commitment is there from the players and even some of the coaches but until some of these schools get the support they deserve from their Athletic Departments and AD's unfortunately nothing will change. At least they got an excellent education and degree from a prestigious university and at the end of the day, that's what matters.

[Shootinducks]

It's such a turnoff to read the same posters taking shots at their "targets" over and over. We get it, you don't like Stanford or Duke or insert least favorite coach. It says more about you and your negativity (ego?) than it does sometimes about the lacrosse program in question. I love NCAA lacrosse and I come to this forum occasionally seeking insight, especially from people who are the games live......but tough to "listen" to adults hiding behind anonymity tearing down certain programs or coaches over and over.

Fair point and thanks for your perspective. If someone has a specific critique of a coach's lacrosse strategy, I'd say that's fair game, but I agree that a few posters seem to grind the same axe over and over.

Agree with this. Feel free to critique strategy, recruiting, game decisions and track record. Comes with the job to have a bunch of arm chair coaches second guessing every move. It does turn me off when the poster obviously has an axe to grind with their target. They can’t hide their glee at any perceived missteps, traffic in innuendo and rumor while attacking at every possible opportunity. Makes me wonder where and when said coach peed in the posters cheerios. Way too personal of a vendetta to derive any value or credence out of the commentary.

[Brownlax]

It's such a turnoff to read the same posters taking shots at their "targets" over and over. We get it, you don't like Stanford or Duke or insert least favorite coach. It says more about you and your negativity (ego?) than it does sometimes about the lacrosse program in question. I love NCAA lacrosse and I come to this forum occasionally seeking insight, especially from people who are the games live......but tough to "listen" to adults hiding behind anonymity tearing down certain programs or coaches over and over.

Fair point and thanks for your perspective. If someone has a specific critique of a coach's lacrosse strategy, I'd say that's fair game, but I agree that a few posters seem to grind the same axe over and over.

Agree with this. Feel free to critique strategy, recruiting, game decisions and track record. Comes with the job to have a bunch of arm chair coaches second guessing every move. It does turn me off when the poster obviously has an axe to grind with their target. They can’t hide their glee at any perceived missteps, traffic in innuendo and rumor while attacking at every possible opportunity. Makes me wonder where and when said coach peed in the posters cheerios. Way too personal of a vendetta to derive any value or credence out of the commentary.

Is this specifically related to Stanford?