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Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:25 pm
by Matnum PI
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:17 pm
by youthathletics
Coach Lynch is great. Men loved him at NAPS.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:23 am
by LaxPundit07
At what point does this all become an indictment on College leadership?
Are we really supposed to believe that this many coaches are being churned up and spit out and those coaches are the problem? Not saying that the coaches are blameless or clean here; just saying when there are this many problems, they can often be traced to poor leadership in the department or college.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am
by youthathletics
Maybe this is nothing more than a financial move?...don't know.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am
by HopFan16
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am
Maybe this is nothing more than a financial move?...don't know.
A month before the season starts? The IL story says players on the team haven't had contact with the staff since before Thanksgiving. That doesn't scream "finances" to me.
LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:23 am
At what point does this all become an indictment on College leadership?
Are we really supposed to believe that this many coaches are being churned up and spit out and those coaches are the problem? Not saying that the coaches are blameless or clean here; just saying when there are this many problems, they can often be traced to poor leadership in the department or college.
That's possible but in that case you'd expect to also see problems with other programs at the school, wouldn't you? Maybe that is the case—I have no idea. But if not I think it points more toward a lax specific issue IMO.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:33 am
by runrussellrun
Blackdoglax wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:25 pm
Does it really matter to anyone. Holy Cross Lax has been a mess for 5 years.
Think you forgot to add a zero
football IS the problem on the Hill......needs to go. waste of money
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:56 am
by youthathletics
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am
Maybe this is nothing more than a financial move?...don't know.
A month before the season starts? The IL story says players on the team haven't had contact with the staff since before Thanksgiving. That doesn't scream "finances" to me.
LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:23 am
At what point does this all become an indictment on College leadership?
Are we really supposed to believe that this many coaches are being churned up and spit out and those coaches are the problem? Not saying that the coaches are blameless or clean here; just saying when there are this many problems, they can often be traced to poor leadership in the department or college.
That's possible but in that case you'd expect to also see problems with other programs at the school, wouldn't you? Maybe that is the case—I have no idea. But if not,
I think it points more toward a lax specific issue IMO.
Lax issue as in what?, leadership, underperforming in role, broke a rule, said something. The message is vague from the AD, which typically implies....it's best not to talk about. Maybe he was fighting for a contract and HC said.. pound-sand be thankful you are on payroll?
I am quite sure the staff has been working, schedules and conversations are being had amongst their coaching peers. Coaches do not need to be overly involved in the off-season during remote learning and limitations of gatherings, so long as they are communicating with the captains....who typically speak with the staff, then disseminate that info to the team. If the staff also ignored the captains, then yes.....that is poor leadership.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:18 am
by HCDC
Very unfortunate development for the program.
Burke had made real progress and the future looked promising. Starting to be consistently competitive (and winning) in the PL and vs the New England Ivies.
He had lots of support from the athletic department, the players, the parents. Burke was current AD’s first hire; that’s someone you want to succeed.
Rules are rules. If the rules have been made explicitly clear, what does an Admin do?
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:57 am
by Farfromgeneva
ckstevenson wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:55 pm
Blackdoglax wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:25 pm
Does it really matter to anyone. Holy Cross Lax has been a mess for 5 years.
Their last two seasons were bordering on some of their best ever, and definitely in the past decade or two.
You generally don't fired a coach having success. Or they don't leave while successful unless things are messed up.
Morrissey has been “relatively” successful as well, certainly compared with the prior decade before him. It will all come out eventually but something seems off here for sure.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:31 pm
by ckstevenson
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:57 am
ckstevenson wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:55 pm
Blackdoglax wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:25 pm
Does it really matter to anyone. Holy Cross Lax has been a mess for 5 years.
Their last two seasons were bordering on some of their best ever, and definitely in the past decade or two.
You generally don't fired a coach having success. Or they don't leave while successful unless things are messed up.
Morrissey has been “relatively” successful as well, certainly compared with the prior decade before him. It will all come out eventually but something seems off here for sure.
Yeah, makes me wonder if the consistent theme is the Athletic Department / Administration (which seems quite plausible) or the coaches. The timing is off.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:57 pm
by courtdog
Any word if they will try to hire right away or wait until summer?
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:29 pm
by LaxPundit07
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:09 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 am
Maybe this is nothing more than a financial move?...don't know.
A month before the season starts? The IL story says players on the team haven't had contact with the staff since before Thanksgiving. That doesn't scream "finances" to me.
LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:23 am
At what point does this all become an indictment on College leadership?
Are we really supposed to believe that this many coaches are being churned up and spit out and those coaches are the problem? Not saying that the coaches are blameless or clean here; just saying when there are this many problems, they can often be traced to poor leadership in the department or college.
That's possible but in that case you'd expect to also see problems with other programs at the school, wouldn't you? Maybe that is the case—I have no idea. But if not I think it points more toward a lax specific issue IMO.
I don't know enough about Holy Cross to know if there are issues elsewhere in the department. When I was hired for my first Division 1 assistant job, my boss told me if they ever fired me it was equally an indictment on them as it was on me. Ultimately coaches are responsible for their assistant hires and DEPARTMENTS are responsible for their head coaching hires. How many times will the department swing and miss before they address whatever the real issue may be? Don't forget they fired Judd Lattimore mid year because parents complained and said it was a "personnel matter" with no further explanation. Then they assigned Burke as an interim, then gave him the job full time, now have fired him mid year (without much of an explanation AT ALL, literally no acknowledgement of it or Burke's name), and are assigning another interim for this season before they make their next hire. Something is wrong in that department as it relates to this program. It would take a lot to convince me otherwise.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:13 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Lattimore is a good coach too IMO (friends with his brother, so I may be biased, but I'm not alone in that opinion, Feds at Bucknell would say nice things about him beyond corporate, dont get sued, speak).
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:19 pm
by VTLaxGuy
Job is posted on NCAA job board and HC website, with a close date of June 30, 2021.
Looking like they're going to ride out the season with the current staff / interim Head Coach.
https://holycross.interviewexchange.com ... BID=127438
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:32 pm
by Farfromgeneva
HC has a ton of dough but this almost makes you wonder if they care or are committed to the sport. I mean this volatility just kills a decade or more. I saw it first hand at Hobart when our out of touch former AD fired Kerwick to cover his own mistakes at the end of the 2008 season, replaced him with a great recruiter, terrible Xs and Os and too easy on kids, assistant named TW Johnson (who was undermined at every turn by John Svec who wanted a HC job so bad he'd tank his boss and tried to, so glad he failed as Siena) for about 5yrs before he then recognized he was better suited in a lower pressure role and we hired Raymond in 2014. That' 5-7 year stretch was miserable for the most part and Raymond, who were lucky is a great coach because no guarantees on any hire, is only in the last two years building back up and out of that hole.
And that's half the turmoil HC has had. Just don't see at this stage how a kid and their parents can commit and trust the coach will be there for the kid's entire time at the school. Way, way more than that risk that exists almost anywhere else.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:44 am
by bison137
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:10 pm
There was no reason to force Morrisey out. That 7-7 team was his kids.
There was a huge reason to fire Morrissey. HC had no choice.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:20 am
by runrussellrun
Had zero idea that the Patriot League decided to play a mini-season for fall sports. Makes sense that a lacrosse website wouldn't care much about football impacting lacrosse, or rather facilities in general, especially since the prince's of the Patriot league, lord Loyola, don't play them some pig skin. Smart, them GreyHounds.
Speculative coaching stories aside, can't one do the same regarding facilities at Holy Cross? The useless highway by the stadium is natural grass. Where are the football hero's gonna play home games? Special teams needs a full field to practice, and the O needs the new indoor space for its secret sauce cruSauder juggernaut offensive style. gotta keep em guessing.
https://goholycross.com/news/2021/1/8/a ... -2021.aspx
with only two outdoor artificial surfaces, coupled with a historic disregard for snow removal by the B & G department, gotta be a tough scheduling slog.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:05 pm
by Sllaxdad
Great discussion. From personal knowledge and experience, as a parent of a player who played at HC for coach Burke, he is a terrific person, coach and mentor -- same as Coach Lat -- who unfortunately ran into a tough stretch while he was trying to elevate the program.
The kids performed well in the classroom (most qualified for all PL academic which requires an in season gpa of 3.2 -- which is not an easy target at HC), volunteered in the community (top one or two lax teams in the COUNTRY), graduated, donated (2nd highest on campus giving in terms of $ and % of participation) and were true men for others. they were having success on the field both in terms of wins within the PL and against the peer schools in New England (regularly beating Harvard/Brown and right behind PC). For a program that is not fully funded and plays a majority of the outdoor season in less than optimal weather conditions, the Coaches are attracting talented players and this past year had multiple MLL and PLL draft picks (whatever that means) and a long poll who will be an All American candidate.
By any measure, Coach Burke had the program moving in the right direction, properly and within the standards of the College. He will land on his feet and when he does, that school will have gained. HC truly has lost a good person.
Cheers.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:04 pm
by HCDC
Good points SIlax.
As an alum, I was feeling very good about the direction of the program under Burke. For whatever their flaws, I felt like Pascal, Morrissey, and Lattimore all helped move the program in the right direction. Burke though, seemed to be the complete package ... and he was getting results.
I think Burke was widely liked and respected at HC, including by the administration.
I’m conscious that saying anything in a forum like this risks unfairly tarnishing Burke, but I also think it’s important not to unfairly malign the school or the AD when they’re put in a difficult position. Assuming that the facts relayed to me are true, the school didn’t really have a choice. Burke does not come out looking like a creep or a bad guy, but the error in judgement was serious enough to justify the school’s decision. I’m pretty sure nobody feels good about this.
Unfortunate ... particularly for the players and Burke, but also for the athletic department and everyone that supports the program.
Hope all concerned land on their feet.
Re: Holy Cross
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm
by River Donkey
What did he do? Attend a Trump rally?