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D3 Men Forum Poll

Looks like this might be Poll for the year, Looks like its being confirmed over the next few days that seasons will becoming to close...This weeks games look like they maybe to th final ones of the year. Hearing from friends accross D3; of course Amherst, F&M and others.

So with that here is my list (maybe be the last); my only notable add to this list vs. others is Trinity at 20... Bates is a good team, RIT beats them by 6, Wesleyan by 4 with out a Matt Chlastawa, the Banatam's beat them by 5 with the Bobcats AA @ Bates... Their in my Top20

1 Salisbury 
2 Tufts
3 Williams
4 RIT
5 Denison
6 Cabrini
7 Union
8 Amherst
9 Ursinus
10 Gettysburg
11 Wesleyan
12 York
13 St. Lawrence
14 Christopher Newport
15 Middlebury
16 Stevenson
17 Saint John Fisher
18 Lynchburg
19 Franklin and Marshall
20 Trinity
21 Stevens
22 Ithaca
23 RPI
24 Cortland
25 Washington and Lee
26 Stockton
27 Western New England
28 Babson
29 Dickinson
30 Bates

Nothing, seasons are being suspended, not cancelled. Also, you're welcome to join the poll-ers formally, if you'd like.

Thank you, but I like being a spectator. You do a great job,

As of 9am this morning here is what I have heard: ( I too want the season to go on)

Amhest last game is tonight, Trinity’s is tomorrow for the season. And, its pretty safe to assume that the others will follow. I ask Why?

While the obvious concerns are apparent, Aditionally, I have been explained there is serious liability fears that if these schools would face if they allowed their teams to participate in locations designated as current “States of Emergency”, and it was deemed that the College would be considered negligent if the worst was to occur.

I understand that waivers of culpability are being presented with regards to the upcoming NCAA Basketball Tournament surrounding this issue. (Still trying understand what that is,can't fins anything online) However, I am assuming that many small schools do not have the cost or desire to waiver through the courts or put themselves in a position of a potential lawsuits that could be forthcoming.

I guess the cost of shutting down the program is less expensive than paying potentially millions if something horribly happened in their minds.

I will update as I hear more insight.

Suggestion: Post it within the "School closings" or something similar thread.

My Final Poll (a cut and paste from Excel so pardon the crappy formatting):
1. Tufts Utter domination of all opponents, inc. a no. 2, and 2 teams that have been in top-20 or considered
2. Salisbury Solid wins over a series of good teams
3. RIT Plus 1 DNP but jumps ephs due to ephs lackluster win over RPI
4. Williams Minus 1 - See above, probs not deserving of exalted status weeks 1-3
5. Denison No change
6. Union no change
7. York Plus 1 - dnp, but moves up due to poor showings by Gburg and Ursinus
8 Amherst Plus 3 - solid win OTR over a decent Endicott, plus bad wins by Gburg and Ursinus
9. Gettysburg Minus 2 see above
10. Cabrini No change, solid w over HS
11. Ursinus Minus 2, bad 1 goal win over Stockton
12 St John Fisher No change - loss to a good Union team
13 Lynchburg No change dnp
14 Stevens No change, uninspiring win over Montclair
15 St Lawrence No change dnp
16 Stevenson No change dnp
17 C Newport No change dnp
18 Middlebury Plus 2 (takes Wesleyan's spot) after beat down of Plattsburgh
19 Disckinson No change dnp
20 WNE Plus 4 after beating preseason darling Bates, 2 Ws over highly regarded NESCAC
21 Wesleyan Minus 3 after loss to Camels, probably should be lower
22 Cortland No change dnp
23 F&M No change dnp
24 Geneseo Joins the top 25 after 5 wins + close loss to a top-20, room w/Ithaca dropping out
25 Ill Wesleyan Rejoins due to Ithaca dropping

In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, will ask ZoneSurgeon (ZP) and Unknown Participant (UP) to refocus their priorities and stop the fake news and anti-Ursinus narrative.

A top 5-6 ranking is certainly well deserved by the UC Bears. Evidence includes the following: they were and are the premiere team in the Centennial Conference, defeating G-burg and F&M last year with many of the same players that returned this season. They are one of the few D3 teams with an unblemished record this year, 7-0, before stoppage. They defeated talented teams that were ranked or had received votes in D3 2020 national polls, including Stevenson, CNU, Illinois Wesleyan and Stockton.

Regarding a close game versus Stockton, the Ospreys had a 5-0 record going into the game and had a goalie who played incredibly well vs Ursinus. Showing no quit, the Bears roared back, outscoring Stockton 7-1 in the 4Q. UC has often been dominant this season: To illustrate, Bears led vs. CNU 13-4 late in that game; versus Illinois Wesleyan, UC led 14-2 at half and 20-3 late in the game.

Conversely, UP rates several teams #7-10 ahead of the Bears for unclear reasons, as those others have had losses, or close games against average teams. York lost to Stevenson, yet UC beat Stevenson. Cabrini lost to Ithaca. Gburg has lost to SU and more than one unimpressive outing.
Amherst had an unremarkable a 3-1 record; they were tied 8-8 at halftime vs unranked Western New England; absolutely embarrassed by Tufts, giving up a 25 goals--Q: is that due to team that quits or one that lacks top ten talent ? According to UP, Amherst should move up a few spots in polls because AC beat Endicott, supposedly a "solid team," despite Endicott's only having a 2-3 record (??) This logic is hard to follow.

Not sure if ZP and UP are Amherst apologists. Besides appropriate concern about COVID 19, the Amherst lacrosse players, coach and administration need to address major issues, like culture and allegations of racism.

Ursinus should be congratulated, along with the few other teams in D3, for completing an undefeated 2020 season, albeit abbreviated.
Wishing everyone a safe, healthy spring!

The final FanLax Forum Poll of the 2020 season is due at midnight. Per usual, it will be posted on Tuesday.

D3Centlax wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:20 am In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, will ask ZoneSurgeon (ZP) and Unknown Participant (UP) to refocus their priorities and stop the fake news and anti-Ursinus narrative.

A top 5-6 ranking is certainly well deserved by the UC Bears. Evidence includes the following: they were and are the premiere team in the Centennial Conference, defeating G-burg and F&M last year with many of the same players that returned this season.

They are one of the few D3 teams with an unblemished record this year, 7-0, before stoppage. They defeated talented teams that were ranked or had received votes in D3 2020 national polls, including Stevenson, CNU, Illinois Wesleyan and Stockton.

Ursinus is a very good team that is absolutely deserving of top ten consideration, but what on earth is this post? I'm not sure how you can suggest other people are biased and then post this as a rebuttal.

1. Ursinus beating Gettysburg and F&M last year mattered last year. It is (or at least it was ) 2020. If we're going to talk 2019, UC split two games with Gettysburg last year, plus lost to a truly awful Haverford team and a good but not great Dickinson team. Additionally, they lost in the NCAA second round to a nine-loss Springfield team. Point being: UC is far from a proven commodity.

2. As for UC's 2020 record, who they have played matters. Don't get me wrong: UC has obviously beaten good teams. However, let's be real here. Every win they have is against a team that is worse than them who you would expect them to beat. Like what's their best win? What's their signature win that proves they are in the country's elite?
- A one-goal win vs. Stevenson? A 1-3 team on the edge of the polls?
- CNU? A good but not great team who has one notable win (Stevenson by 1) to their credit?
- Stockton? An unranked team who is technically receiving votes?
- Illinois Wesleyan ???? Seriously? IW isn't even close to a legit opponent, and also didn't receive any votes in the most recent poll.

Obviously Ursinus' record is good, and they have played solid competition. I'm not arguing otherwise. However, it's fair for people to hold off on ranking them like one of the country's elite at this point. We don't know how they match up with the country's best teams because they haven't played any of them. One goal wins vs. Stevenson or Stockton don't tell us much. Beating Illinois Wesleyan is irrelevant. So is beating Eastern or Mary Washington. It proves UC belongs in the top twenty, but we already knew that. I can totally understand forum pollsters waiting to see how Ursinus did against Gburg or F&M (or Dickinson) before ranking them as highly as you think they should be. I have them at #7 in my final poll, but I don't think there's much to separate UC, Union, Denison, and Cabrini. I would expect all of those teams to beat CNU or Stevenson.

Conversely, UP rates several teams #7-10 ahead of the Bears for unclear reasons, as those others have had losses, or close games against average teams. York lost to Stevenson, yet UC beat Stevenson. Cabrini lost to Ithaca. Gburg has lost to SU and more than one unimpressive outing.

3. The transitive property isn't how rankings work. If it were, I could point out that Gettysburg beat Stevenson by 5 while UC beat them by 1, or that three unranked teams (Hampden-Sydney (8), W&L (11), and Catholic (11)) all beat Mary Washington by more than UC did (5). We would go in circles all day. It's not a useful way to evaluate teams unless you're cherry-picking, which...never mind.

4. Saying Gettysburg should be ranked lower than UC solely because they have one loss to the #1 team in the country is ridiculous. That's all that needs to be said about that.

5. As for "close games against average teams"...
- How do you view a two-goal UC win over a 2-4 Eastern team that got pasted by CNU (12 goals), York (8 goals), and St. Mary's (7 goals)?
- What about a five-goal win over a 3-4 Mary Washington team that, as I mentioned, lost to three unranked teams by larger margins than they lost to UC? How is that result not unimpressive?

Every game can't be a blowout (well, unless you're Tufts). Sometimes teams play close games.

Amherst had an unremarkable a 3-1 record; they were tied 8-8 at halftime vs unranked Western New England; absolutely embarrassed by Tufts, giving up a 25 goals--Q: is that due to team that quits or one that lacks top ten talent ? According to UP, Amherst should move up a few spots in polls because AC beat Endicott, supposedly a "solid team," despite Endicott's only having a 2-3 record (??) This logic is hard to follow.

6. Holy selective standards, Batman!

- An unremarkable 3-1 record? What? Amherst doesn't control when NESCAC play starts. They played a Sat./Sun. doubleheader to start the season, then played Tufts, and then played Endicott three days later. Four games in eleven days to start the season: two eight-goal wins, one seven-goal win, and one loss against the most dominant team in the country.

- Amherst gave up 25 goals. They also scored 15, and were the only team that didn't look like high schoolers against Tufts this year. They weren't embarrassed. They were just overwhelmed by a juggernaut.

- WNE beat Wesleyan (a ranked team that began the year in the top ten) and Bates (receiving poll votes, which again, you said earlier indicated an impressive, talented opponent). They received votes in last week's poll; you lauded UC for playing teams that received votes. The Bears would almost certainly have been ranked in this week's poll, and they are #10 in FanLax's computer ranking (in an admittedly small sample size). They're legit. Amherst struggled with them for one half and then blew the doors off WNE in the second.

7. I can't speak to why someone else moved Amherst up after a somewhat lethargic win vs. Endicott. I do know that in my own week-to-week rankings I have moved teams up or down not just because of what they did, but because of what other teams did. I moved a few around this week who didn't even play. It's really not that out of the ordinary.

Not sure if ZP and UP are Amherst apologists. Besides appropriate concern about COVID 19, the Amherst lacrosse players, coach and administration need to address major issues, like culture and allegations of racism.

8. I feel pretty comfortable labeling these as opportunistic, cynical allegations that reflect bias against the program (or maybe the coach) more than any legitimate concern. As I've said before in the NESCAC forum, lobbing bad faith cheap shots at Jon Thompson and Amherst has been a yearly tradition for seemingly his entire tenure there.

Ursinus should be congratulated, along with the few other teams in D3, for completing an undefeated 2020 season, albeit abbreviated.
Wishing everyone a safe, healthy spring!

9. Agreed! Seriously, congrats to the Bears on a short but impressive season. Really frustrating that we didn't get to see them tested against the top of the Centennial, and then in the NCAA tourney. This year was shaping up to be a really interesting one.

FWIW I have nothing against UC! Just posts I think are...uh...more fan-like than they realize. Also I/we have way too much free time now. Anyway, wash your hands, y'all, and practice social distancing. I can only handle this for so long! Flatten the curve!

D3Centlax wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:20 am I

Not sure if ZP and UP are Amherst apologists. Besides appropriate concern about COVID 19, the Amherst lacrosse players, coach and administration need to address major issues, like culture and allegations of racism.

Ursinus should be congratulated, along with the few other teams in D3, for completing an undefeated 2020 season, albeit abbreviated.

I can assure you that I despise Amherst College on many levels, none of them having to do with the recent allegations.

Congrats to Ursinus on an undefeated season!

Pretty good reply to D3Centlax...I definitely agree with that analysis. I make no apologies that I am a Gettysburg homer but I try to be somewhat objective in analyzing them. I would say they are definitely a top 6-9 team. I watched Tufts play twice and don't think the Bullets would come close to matching Tufts athleticism (I wish we were talking about the Gettysburg / Tufts game that was scheduled for today) instead of a bunch of what if's and maybe's.

I will say in response to UP there is no such thing as a bad win...there are ugly wins but not bad wins. Maybe a couple of key players were sick or hurt or missed a practice because of a lab or were up late studying for an exam or writing a paper, all of that happens. Gettysburg beat York, Stevenson, Widener (that was 4-0 at the time) and W&L on the road, I'll take all of them.

D3Centlax, the Ursinus / Gettysburg game would have been fantastic!! If it makes you feel better take a look at the poll that has Ursinus 5th and Gettysburg 23rd

FanLax’s D3 Men Forum Polls (03.16.20 – FINAL*)

– – Win Rank Loss Rank
1 Salisbury 1 1
2 Tufts 2 1
3 Gettysburg 3 27
4 Ursinus 4 1
5 Williams 5 1
6 Denison 6 1
7 St. Lawrence 10 1
8 Chris. Newport 8 33
9 Union (NY) 12 29
10 Western New Eng. 12 35
11 Cabrini 6 51
12 York (PA) 9 49
13 RIT 17 1
14 Lynchburg 14 39
15 Amherst 17 28
16 Dickinson 11 68
17 St. John Fisher 19 38
18 Stockton 24 33
19 Randolph-Macon 30 1
20 Trinity (CT) 27 29
21 SUNY Geneseo 23 43
22 Stevens 16 53
23 Wesleyan (CT) 21 52
24 Wash. & Lee 26 46
25 Middlebury 37 1
26 Rhodes 21 58
27 Colorado Col. 41 1
28 Franklin & Marshall 34 47
29 Widener 38 37
30 Hampden-Sydney 36 41
31 St. Mary’s (MD) 24 61
32 Roanoke 33 53

Ranking doesn’t pass the ‘smell test’...

3 Gettysburg
2 Ursinus
4 Denison
5 St. Lawrence
6 Chris. Newport
8 Western New Eng.

And then...
11 RIT
13 Amherst

ergit wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:47 pm Ranking doesn’t pass the ‘smell test’...

3 Gettysburg
2 Ursinus
4 Denison
5 St. Lawrence
6 Chris. Newport
8 Western New Eng.

And then...
11 RIT
13 Amherst

http://fanlax.com/fanlax/2020/03/17/fan ... -20-final/

ergit wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:47 pm Ranking doesn’t pass the ‘smell test’...

3 Gettysburg
2 Ursinus
4 Denison
5 St. Lawrence
6 Chris. Newport
8 Western New Eng.

And then...
11 RIT
13 Amherst

Where are you getting the rankings next to the teams? Ursinus at 2?

My apologies for missing the submission of the top 25. I'm going to post my rankings here now because with all this free time, I want to debate where other people have teams in their rankings and I don't think it's fair for me to question others without posting my top 25 for others to challenge.

1. Tufts
2. Salisbury
3. Williams
4. RIT
5. Denison
6. Union (NY)
7. Gettysburg
8. Ursinus
9. Amherst
10. St. Lawrence
11. Christopher Newport
12. Cabrini
13. St. John Fisher
14. York (PA)
15. Lynchburg
16. Middlebury
17. Franklin & Marshall
18. SUNY Geneseo
19. SUNY Cortland
20. Stevenson
21. Western New England
22. Ithaca
23. Colorado College
24. Stevens
25. Stockton

First and foremost, I just want to say that I am not trying to question anyone's lacrosse knowledge or make fun of their picks. Rather, I'm more interested in hearing why people have certain teams way above or way below I have them. The truth is I'd rather spend time debating rankings than thinking about this lost season and the fact I have no more lacrosse to watch.

UP: My question for you is why do you have Stevenson (1-3) ranked ahead of CNU (5-1) considering CNU beat Stevenson? Does it have to do with SOS or Stevenson's win over a 4-2 York team that you have at #7? And now that I'm looking at it, why is York above Gettysburg?

laxrules: Can you explain what makes Stevens the 13th ranked team? Aside from a very good half against Salisbury, they have a win against Swarthmore, a 3 goal win against a struggling Haverford, a win against a winless Springfield, a win against a Montclair State (a team that has squeaked by Scranton, Vassar and FDU) and a loss to a Dickinson team I didn't think was having a great year. And while being up on Salisbury 6-3 at halftime is super impressive, they lost the second half 11-2.

ah23: I think the biggest question comes at your #12 spot with WNE. While I question if they should be that high at this point, I do wish we were able to watch the St Lawrence game that was supposed to happen today to see where those two teams fall, and I do like the bold pick. The other question I would have is why is Lynchburg 3 spots below a F&M team that they beat by 11?

DeepPocket: With a loss to a WNE team that you don't have in your top 25, was putting Wesleyan at 13 an oversight? Also, did you forget to remove Bates? Or do you still think that are a top 25 team at 1-5?

Again, not trying to start an argument and I know it's impossible to tell the tone over typing but I want to clarify that I am not trying to attack as much as have some fun debating our picks. Also, feel free to question mine as well. I probably have CNU too high and I'm really not sure who to put where from 20-25. I still think our forum poll does a way better job than the USILA does! Stay healthy everyone!

SpiritInTheStick wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:14 pm
DeepPocket: With a loss to a WNE team that you don't have in your top 25, was putting Wesleyan at 13 an oversight? Also, did you forget to remove Bates? Or do you still think that are a top 25 team at 1-5?

Yes, I will admit very little time was given to these last rankings. For that I am sorry. However in the spirit of defending my picks;

Wesleyan beat Williams, surely that accounts for a solid rank (in this shortened season). I would liken it to Cabrini in your rankings, who lost to Ithaca- not in your top 20, however Cabrini gets a 12 ranking on account of other games I would assume). Wesleyan also beat Bates who, at that time, I had ranked well in my polls. A loss like that to WNE surely shouldn’t drop them too far in my mind. (Though I admit I totally didn’t even acknowledge that game)

As for Bates, I started the season with them in my top ten (admittedly a bold move). They returned all top 5 scorers from a strong showing last year and that weighed heavy to me. They soon lost their top guy, Chlastawa, which was a massive hit. And their losses that slid them back as the short season wore on were slowed in my poll by the recent return of Chlastawa from that injury. He did not have the impact I hoped/expected. I still saw them as a dangerous team with a punchers chance against many. (though again, my attention had been drawn to other aspects of life as lacrosse came to a close)

Your’s are fair questions, and I hope I gave at least some insight into my thoughts, or lack there of as it may be.

For the sake of banter; your 10 St Lawrence, and 11 CNU. Were these based on watching them play and seeing a particular strength? (asking because I didn’t watch much of either team)

St Lawrence has 3 games under their belt. Potsdam, Cortland, and Geneseo. (Cortland being the only nationally ranked foe, and still well behind in your rankings). #10?

CNU was 15 in your poll 2 weeks ago. Since then they beat a 2-4 Eastern and Stevenson (who you have them ranked better than). What propelled them to 11?