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Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 2:55 pm
by CU88
Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 2:56 pm
by CU88
Chousnake wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:56 pm
If the framers of the Constitution did not contemplate abortion in 1789 and did not contemplate gay marriage in 1789 - as the strict constructionists tell us is the legal reasoning behind opposing these rights - then they also did not contemplate "arms" as written in the 2nd amendment - to be anything more than a musket. They did not contemplate citizens running around with assault rifles and large magazines and armor piercing bullets.
So I agree that the Constitution gives every American the rights granted under the 2nd Amendment as contemplated in 1789 - the right to own a musket.
Surely there is some room for compromise here. Raise the minimum age to buy a gun to at least 21. Require background checks and licenses and mandatory education. Ban gun sales to those with a criminal record (for certain crimes) and domestic violence offenders and those with specified mental illness conditions. Require safe storage and trigger locks (a good amount of gun violence occurs in the home and through accidents). Stricly enforce straw purchase laws and limit the number of guns that can be purchased in a month or year. Institute background checks for ammunition purchases. Ban bump stocks. End the immunity for gun manufacturers (why does this industry get to profit from this violence with impunity for their actions?). Research and implement smart guns. What is the harm with any of these common sense and modest restrictions.
Regulation over the past 60 years greatly reduced the death and accident rate caused by car travel without banning cars. We can do the same with guns.
+1
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:26 pm
by ggait
TBH, I think this ship sailed a long time ago. The toothpaste has just been out of the tube for too many decades without any serious response.
There are video games, internet and crazy people all over the world. But these mass shooting are primarily a USA thing. I think it now is basically a social contagion beyond the reach of any legislation. Even if any legislation would be enacted, which of course is not going to happen.
And so long as this social contagion/virus continues to circulate, the infected will find their weapons. Over 400 million firearms in the USA -- more guns than cell phones, cars, TVs or people.
And arming the good guys is not effective. Both Uvalde and Buffalo had armed/trained personnel on site who engaged the shooter. Which was no match for a shooter with body armor and an AR-15.
Data shows that Clinton's 1994 AWB was actually working. Once the GOP allowed it to expire in 2004, I think this issue was basically decided. We chose to accept these incidents.
Only idea I have is perhaps banning civilian body armor? I don't think anyone thinks the 2A protects that.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:29 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
CU88 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:56 pm
Chousnake wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 12:56 pm
If the framers of the Constitution did not contemplate abortion in 1789 and did not contemplate gay marriage in 1789 - as the strict constructionists tell us is the legal reasoning behind opposing these rights - then they also did not contemplate "arms" as written in the 2nd amendment - to be anything more than a musket. They did not contemplate citizens running around with assault rifles and large magazines and armor piercing bullets.
So I agree that the Constitution gives every American the rights granted under the 2nd Amendment as contemplated in 1789 - the right to own a musket.
Surely there is some room for compromise here. Raise the minimum age to buy a gun to at least 21. Require background checks and licenses and mandatory education. Ban gun sales to those with a criminal record (for certain crimes) and domestic violence offenders and those with specified mental illness conditions. Require safe storage and trigger locks (a good amount of gun violence occurs in the home and through accidents). Stricly enforce straw purchase laws and limit the number of guns that can be purchased in a month or year. Institute background checks for ammunition purchases. Ban bump stocks. End the immunity for gun manufacturers (why does this industry get to profit from this violence with impunity for their actions?). Research and implement smart guns. What is the harm with any of these common sense and modest restrictions.
Regulation over the past 60 years greatly reduced the death and accident rate caused by car travel without banning cars. We can do the same with guns.
+1
“They” haven’t banned cars….YET.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:34 pm
by Matnum PI
CU88 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:55 pm
Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15
#1 trending search currently on Google, and has been all day, is AR-15.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:58 pm
by DocBarrister
CU88 wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:55 pm
Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15
+1 billion
DocBarrister
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 4:26 pm
by Peter Brown
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:18 pm
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:12 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:34 am
Typical Democratic message today: I care more about these deaths than you do.
Our troll is finally correct on something. They actually do. Or at least the vast majority of Democratic representatives care more than the vast majority of Republican ones.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics ... index.html
Instructive to watch grandstanding gubernatorial Democratic candidate Beto O'Rourke crash the governor's press conference as the genius Lt. Governor calls him an a-hole on national television as he orders the cops to remove him from the room.
I'm sure glad I don't live in Texas with these morons in charge.
Shameless grandstanding, staged political ploy during a very somber press conference.
He deserves to lose by a ton just for that.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 4:45 pm
by SCLaxAttack
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:26 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:18 pm
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:12 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:34 am
Typical Democratic message today: I care more about these deaths than you do.
Our troll is finally correct on something. They actually do. Or at least the vast majority of Democratic representatives care more than the vast majority of Republican ones.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics ... index.html
Instructive to watch grandstanding gubernatorial Democratic candidate Beto O'Rourke crash the governor's press conference as the genius Lt. Governor calls him an a-hole on national television as he orders the cops to remove him from the room.
I'm sure glad I don't live in Texas with these morons in charge.
Shameless grandstanding, staged political ploy during a very somber press conference.
He deserves to lose by a ton just for that.
Back to being wrong. It was the press conference that was political grandstanding.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 4:58 pm
by Peter Brown
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:45 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:26 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:18 pm
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:12 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:34 am
Typical Democratic message today: I care more about these deaths than you do.
Our troll is finally correct on something. They actually do. Or at least the vast majority of Democratic representatives care more than the vast majority of Republican ones.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics ... index.html
Instructive to watch grandstanding gubernatorial Democratic candidate Beto O'Rourke crash the governor's press conference as the genius Lt. Governor calls him an a-hole on national television as he orders the cops to remove him from the room.
I'm sure glad I don't live in Texas with these morons in charge.
Shameless grandstanding, staged political ploy during a very somber press conference.
He deserves to lose by a ton just for that.
Back to being wrong. It was the press conference that was political grandstanding.
*Elected* politicians are expected to host press conferences such as that as a rite of sharing grief and offering condolences. It’s civil.
Private citizens aren’t generally expected to stage a fundraising hysteric protest there.
Beto will lose a ton of support from the center because of this. I understand the lunatics of the left are screaming hosannas for him for the same, but in Texas, those folks aren’t any more than 10% of the electorate tops. Bad move strategically because it was a bad move morally. What an insufferable toolbox.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:30 pm
by Seacoaster(1)
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:38 pm
by Matnum PI
That's great...
4 hours ago, Beto replaced AR-15 as the most trending word(s) on Twitter.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:45 pm
by Peter Brown
The weird thing is I agree with Robert on some of his ideas. The difficult thing when you listen to that Twitter speech is he seems disingenuous, mildly performative.
He could have as easily made his case without doing the stunt, which imo was an insult to the memory of the deceased.
And it was staged. As other media members have noted.
I’m not even a huge Abbott fan. But Robert isn’t the answer. At all.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:49 pm
by Matnum PI
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 5:45 pm
The weird thing is I agree with Robert on some of his ideas. The difficult thing when you listen to that Twitter speech is he seems disingenuous, mildly performative...
Who cares? He could be waving his arms and slapping cymbals between his knees and I wouldn't care. The point is, Now is the time. Now.
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 5:51 pm
by Chousnake
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:58 pm
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:45 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 4:26 pm
Kismet wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:18 pm
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 2:12 pm
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 11:34 am
Typical Democratic message today: I care more about these deaths than you do.
Our troll is finally correct on something. They actually do. Or at least the vast majority of Democratic representatives care more than the vast majority of Republican ones.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics ... index.html
Instructive to watch grandstanding gubernatorial Democratic candidate Beto O'Rourke crash the governor's press conference as the genius Lt. Governor calls him an a-hole on national television as he orders the cops to remove him from the room.
I'm sure glad I don't live in Texas with these morons in charge.
Shameless grandstanding, staged political ploy during a very somber press conference.
He deserves to lose by a ton just for that.
Back to being wrong. It was the press conference that was political grandstanding.
*Elected* politicians are expected to host press conferences such as that as a rite of sharing grief and offering condolences. It’s civil.
Private citizens aren’t generally expected to stage a fundraising hysteric protest there.
Beto will lose a ton of support from the center because of this. I understand the lunatics of the left are screaming hosannas for him for the same, but in Texas, those folks aren’t any more than 10% of the electorate tops. Bad move strategically because it was a bad move morally. What an insufferable toolbox.
OK. So that is grandstanding, but opposing the peaceful transition of power and encouraging people to storm the capital on 1/6/21 is "legitimate political discourse." I get it.
Re: Sensible Gun Safety
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 6:16 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Re: Sensible Gun Safety
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:27 pm
by CU88
MeidasTouch.com
@MeidasTouch
Why is the NRA banning guns at their event this Friday if more guns make us safer?
7:24 PM · May 25, 2022
Re: Sensible Gun Control
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:37 pm
by ggait
The weird thing is I agree with Robert on some of his ideas. The difficult thing when you listen to that Twitter speech is he seems disingenuous, mildly performative.
It was September 2019 when O'Rourke famously said "Hell yes we're going to take your AR-15." Shortly after the Walmart shooting in his hometown of El Paso (23 dead). So almost 3 years ago.
So it is a long standing, consistent, and loudly declared position. Which has probably cost him plenty of votes running for office in Texas.
I'm kind of meh on Beto. But for a politician, that is as genuine as it gets.
Re: Sensible Gun Safety
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:42 pm
by NoLeft
The NBA is deep into Red China; and the Uyghur genocide continues....without another word from any NBA employee. The Uyghur situation is a nation-wide ethnic cleansing event, going on in full view of the world. Stevie, please let us all know when you and the NBA start publically condemning all of this. Otherwise you are the dictionary picture of Hypocrisy.....
Re: Sensible Gun Safety
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 8:58 pm
by old salt
Anti-depressant drugs, covid isolation, violent video games, social media, breakdown of family structure
Re: Sensible Gun Safety
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:03 pm
by RedFromMI
old salt wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 8:58 pm
Anti-depressant drugs, covid isolation, violent video games, social media, breakdown of family structure
Which are present in pretty much a lot of the Western world in fairly similar ways to the US. Not the reason why the problem is so severe here. Just deflection.