LaxPower Back-Up Stick

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:18 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:10 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:01 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:48 pm I see that tech is now agreeing that for all these right-wing theories to hold water, Weiss must be "in on it", in on the cover-up, too. Indeed, most importantly, he has to be lying to Congress.

What I actually said, post WB testimony, is that Weiss had taken his leads from Garland and I would bet it was Garland who lied about Weiss's jurisdiction when Garland testified.

That's swell. That STILL makes it so that Weiss is "in on it".

Once you digest that, you understand why I think you're all crispy crackers for claiming conspiracy, because this means that two men risked their careers and reputations to (drumroll) drag out an investigation for 5 years, hurting Joe Biden, and making him appear corrupt.

If that makes sense to you? Great. Agree to disagree.

I think Barr, Garland, Weiss, Rettig, the whistleblowers, and Wray are all on the level. Just like any reasonable person would think, given who appointed them, what party they are in, and how this whole mess royally F'ed the Biden 2024 campaign....making Trump appear to be right about his Deep State to millions of people who can't think clearly.

a fan... you and your logic and your attempt to communicate are hilarious... I'll just leave it there... signed, crispy crackers

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:48 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 2:59 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:44 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 12:37 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:49 amUnreal!... who said Weiss isn't involved, I certainly didn't. Go back and read again if you need to. Is this, you being reasonable a fan?

Ok, my man, this miscommunication is on you.

i asked you DIRECTLY if you believe that Weiss is "in on it". You laughed it off, instead of agreeing with it so that we can both move on, understanding each other's point.

Now here you are, yelling at me, pretending you didn't run away when you had the chance to understand each other's views...and be reasonable, as you are asking me to be. Notice I was overjoyed because I thought we were finally on the same page? And then instead of simply saying "agreed", and moving on? You laugh at me, implying I'm nutso.

Here it is:

tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:48 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:45 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:37 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:34 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:21 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:13 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:58 pm Garland is protecting Joe. Weiss takes his lead from Garland. Not much of a conspiracy, so again, sorry a fan.

That's great! You and OS want to put that stake in the ground finally? Awesome. You can't move it now.

This means Weiss is "in on it". Which is EXACTLY what I've been telling OS, despite his many protests. This conspiracy of yours cannot happen without Weiss.

I'm 100% cool with this theory. I think it's nuts, but it is not logically impossible like the other half-wit theories being thrown around.

We good now? On the same page?

Not really.

Ok. Then tell me how this conspiracy happens without Weiss. Reasonable question, tech.

Seems you edited my post... I'll try again:

Not really. How do you explain the mounting evidence against the Bidens (that includes the Big Guy of course)?

You 100% cool with all of that too?

Asked and answered above. Want me to cut and paste it? Okay.

This means Weiss is "in on it". Which is EXACTLY what I've been telling OS, despite his many protests. This conspiracy of yours cannot happen without Weiss.

I'm 100% cool with this theory. I think it's nuts, but it is not logically impossible like the other half-wit theories being thrown around.

What you are claiming can't happen without Weiss, Tech. And Weiss is hiding that Garland asked him to bag the case.

Ha ha a fan... OK, "you do you"!

Ha! The mix up for you is when you edited my post to just say, "Not really". When I said "Not really", I wasn't referring to Weiss. I thought we were past Weiss based on your reply. I wanted you to explain the mounting "circumstantial" evidence against the Bidens that you seemed to be laughing off. You edited that portion of my post specifically asking that question. That's on you a fan and actually sort of funny.

Of course I think Weiss is "in on it" as you like to say. Why on earth do you think I spent the effort to try to convince you that Weiss could be a Trump appointee and also be anti-Trump?

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:49 am And there you go with the FoxNews BS (again, by design to pi$$ people off?). Other news platforms/podcasts have been providing the same Biden corruption info well outside of FN. Not knowing that is just ignorance on your part. I listed a few of those platforms the other day.

The FoxNation quip is because both FoxNation others here want to pin whatever they are pinning on Garland and anyone they can find with a D by their name, INTENTIONALLY skipping over Weiss and Barr.

I'll say this for the 1,000th time: the whistleblowers told the House that the problems started under Barr's watch, in 2020, and Weiss was the DoJ lead, appointed by Barr himself.

Posters here are ignoring this, and screaming "it's a Dem coverup!!!" And I will continue to make fun of this stupidity.....

I don't think anyone is "ignoring" it. You're really spooled up over this Barr/Weiss/Biden stuff. Why not just relax and wait to see if Barr testifies? As I said, "I hope he does, IMO he's a rare straight shooter." Maybe you missed that too.

+1 I love a Fan like a brother. This is one of those rare times I don't get where he is coming from. The only answers will come from testimony from Weiss, Barr and Garland preferably at the same time so they can set the record strait. That will never happen in an open session. That is the kind of stuff to be debated behind closed doors.
FTR Barr was considered a strait shooter until trump picked him for AG. The usual suspects on this forum then viciously berated him as a typical trump flunkie. Then they wonder why strait shooter Barr chose to let the case against HB be passed off to his predecessor. What would the usual suspects on this forum be whining and b****ing about if Barr had laid the hammer down on the HB case? Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I disagree. Barr wasn't considered a "straight shooter" back in his first gig in office. And he certainly wasn't considered such when he was looking to be chosen this time around, "auditioning", and wrote a rather awful analysis of the "unitary" powers of the President...got him the job...and then he proceeded to really trash his reputation through a whole series of very partisan actions as AG. He hit the wall on how far he would go, to his credit, but IMO to his shame he waited for his book payment before starting to really go public with his objections to Trump's actions.

The point isn't whether Barr made a good or bad call, but rather that for this investigation to have uncovered damning evidence, he'd have known...and a decision to not prosecute, if there really was adequate such evidence, then he'd have been duty bound to encourage Weiss to bring that case. There's zero rationale, and entirely outside of prior demonstrated character, to have delayed it out of concern he might look partisan...if you have the evidence, it's not partisan...it's rule of law. And he certainly didn't avoid egregious partisan acts in that same time period.

I see that tech is now agreeing that for all these right-wing theories to hold water, Weiss must be "in on it", in on the cover-up, too. Indeed, most importantly, he has to be lying to Congress.

a fan offered a rather flimsy, IMO, rationale why that might be possible, given that there's been no evidence that this is a guy who would risk his career to protect a Democratic politician, regardless of office...a fan suggests that maybe he's purposely making Joe 'look bad'...but why not then complain that he's been held up on his charging decision...come out and say it? Hey, maybe he will...but it's one of the most implausible explanations...

another might be that he and/or his family face death threats, or some other form of blackmail, (did he secretly take a bribe, molest a 14 yr old?) from the White House...yeah, that, too seems pretty implausible. Maybe in a novel...

So, this stuff is going to get mocked as partisan claptrap...unless there's a hard, credible evidence otherwise. And no one has brought such forward.

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:21 pm Many more people have been reporting on the Biden business/corruption than you think... still in your bubble I see.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:31 pm Come on Maaaaaaaaaan, Barrs resume had strait shooter written all over it.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:28 pm Well the GOP wanted Weiss appointed special prosecutor back when. Then they did not like the result and started their whining. To date there is zero evidence rithet Biden committed a crime. Ron Johnson was on Meet the Press he talked about strong evidence Biden (wait for it) might have committed a crime. Johnson had nothing to say anout the profiteering Trump children esp Jared. If he were really concerned about law breaking he would be all over it.

This is nothing but political theater with a goal to hurt Biden
In 2024 election

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:30 pm You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:49 am Background from a, IMO, reliable source, published one month before the WBs testified, before Archer testified, and before bank records show evidence of $20M was paid to the Bidens.

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/13/hunter-biden-fbi/

"Former Trump Attorney General Bill Barr, meanwhile, told Fox News that the investigation into the specific allegations contained in the FD-1023 was never closed. Rather, Barr said, the evidence was assessed not to be disinformation and forwarded on to the Delaware prosecutor probing Hunter Biden, an investigation that remains ongoing — frustratingly so for Barr. “I think it’s time to fish or cut bait and find out what actually happened in that investigation,” he said."

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/09/ ... k-records/

"The tally of foreign money to the Biden family has hit at least $20 million, based on the third round of bank records the House Oversight and Accountability Committee released Wednesday—pointing to millions from oligarchs from Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine."

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:30 pm You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

It's a politics page on a lacrosse board... opinions are posted. If those opinions turn out to be wrong... BFD!

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm "What am I doing?"... obviously "weaponizing intel"... isn't that the nonsense you accused me and others of the other day?

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:50 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:49 am Background from a, IMO, reliable source, published one month before the WBs testified, before Archer testified, and before bank records show evidence of $20M was paid to the Bidens.

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/13/hunter-biden-fbi/

"Former Trump Attorney General Bill Barr, meanwhile, told Fox News that the investigation into the specific allegations contained in the FD-1023 was never closed. Rather, Barr said, the evidence was assessed not to be disinformation and forwarded on to the Delaware prosecutor probing Hunter Biden, an investigation that remains ongoing — frustratingly so for Barr. “I think it’s time to fish or cut bait and find out what actually happened in that investigation,” he said."

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/09/ ... k-records/

"The tally of foreign money to the Biden family has hit at least $20 million, based on the third round of bank records the House Oversight and Accountability Committee released Wednesday—pointing to millions from oligarchs from Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine."

Just saw Barr on Cavuto. He said essentially the same thing. It's obvious the investigation was still underway & that Weiss was not yet ready to indict by the time Barr left office on Dec 14, 2020.

That's not good enough for afan, his goalpost is that if Barr didn't insist on Weiss indicting Hunter before he left office... blah, blah, blah, whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 2:59 pm FTR Barr was considered a strait shooter until trump picked him for AG. The usual suspects on this forum then viciously berated him as a typical trump flunkie. Then they wonder why strait shooter Barr chose to let the case against HB be passed off to his predecessor. What would the usual suspects on this forum be whining and b****ing about if Barr had laid the hammer down on the HB case? Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

It's a politics page on a lacrosse board... opinions are posted. If those opinions turn out to be wrong... BFD!

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
Then why are you mocking me for asking reasonable questions that you can't answer? And telling me "I'm getting all spooled up".

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:01 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:50 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:49 am Background from a, IMO, reliable source, published one month before the WBs testified, before Archer testified, and before bank records show evidence of $20M was paid to the Bidens.

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/13/hunter-biden-fbi/

"Former Trump Attorney General Bill Barr, meanwhile, told Fox News that the investigation into the specific allegations contained in the FD-1023 was never closed. Rather, Barr said, the evidence was assessed not to be disinformation and forwarded on to the Delaware prosecutor probing Hunter Biden, an investigation that remains ongoing — frustratingly so for Barr. “I think it’s time to fish or cut bait and find out what actually happened in that investigation,” he said."

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/09/ ... k-records/

"The tally of foreign money to the Biden family has hit at least $20 million, based on the third round of bank records the House Oversight and Accountability Committee released Wednesday—pointing to millions from oligarchs from Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine."

Just saw Barr on Cavuto. He said essentially the same thing. It's obvious the investigation was still underway & that Weiss was not yet ready to indict by the time Barr left office on Dec 14, 2020.

That's not good enough for afan, his goalpost is that if Barr didn't insist on Weiss indicting Hunter before he left office... blah, blah, blah, whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

So you post that Barr clarified his past statements ten minutes ago, and I'm supposed to have intuited that with my crystal ball?

It's 100% good for me!! The investigation was still going, despite past assertions, and Barr cleared it up. Great! Are you enjoying the fresh air of dealing with someone who isn't wearing a TinFoilHat?

So....now what? Now we're back to you and Tech alleging that Weiss is corrupt.

BTW, YOU are the one moving the goalposts: what I said was.........why can't Barr indict on what he has on hand, and keep investigating on the larger issues of Joe? And why would Barr put Weiss in charge, AND not ask for a SP if Weiss was on the level in Barr's eyes?

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:08 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

It's a politics page on a lacrosse board... opinions are posted. If those opinions turn out to be wrong... BFD!

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
Then why are you mocking me for asking reasonable questions that you can't answer? And telling me "I'm getting all spooled up".

"Reasonable questions"? When?

And I'm simply suggesting you relax.

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:01 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:50 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:49 am Background from a, IMO, reliable source, published one month before the WBs testified, before Archer testified, and before bank records show evidence of $20M was paid to the Bidens.

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/13/hunter-biden-fbi/

"Former Trump Attorney General Bill Barr, meanwhile, told Fox News that the investigation into the specific allegations contained in the FD-1023 was never closed. Rather, Barr said, the evidence was assessed not to be disinformation and forwarded on to the Delaware prosecutor probing Hunter Biden, an investigation that remains ongoing — frustratingly so for Barr. “I think it’s time to fish or cut bait and find out what actually happened in that investigation,” he said."

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/09/ ... k-records/

"The tally of foreign money to the Biden family has hit at least $20 million, based on the third round of bank records the House Oversight and Accountability Committee released Wednesday—pointing to millions from oligarchs from Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine."

Just saw Barr on Cavuto. He said essentially the same thing. It's obvious the investigation was still underway & that Weiss was not yet ready to indict by the time Barr left office on Dec 14, 2020.

That's not good enough for afan, his goalpost is that if Barr didn't insist on Weiss indicting Hunter before he left office... blah, blah, blah, whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

So you post that Barr clarified his past statements ten minutes ago, and I'm supposed to have intuited that with my crystal ball?

It's 100% good for me!! The investigation was still going, despite past assertions, and Barr cleared it up. Great! Are you enjoying the fresh air of dealing with someone who isn't wearing a TinFoilHat?

So....now what? Now we're back to you and Tech alleging that Weiss is corrupt.

BTW, YOU are the one moving the goalposts: what I said was.........why can't Barr indict on what he has on hand, and keep investigating on the larger issues of Joe? And why would Barr put Weiss in charge, AND not ask for a SP if Weiss was on the level in Barr's eyes?

Why don't you just ST*FU & listen to what Barr is saying. Did I say Weiss is corrupt ? I don't know yet.
I doubt that he's corrupt. More likely, doing what he's told by his bosses -->Garland & Monaco & doing what he needs to do to keep living in DE & practicing law there if & when he leaves govt service, but I don't know yet, which is why I wanted to hear him testify before the House, but that's now further delayed because now finally a SC, which was done too late to prevent the SOL expiring for '14-'15. Part of the Biden Admin's delay strategy.

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:17 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:08 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

It's a politics page on a lacrosse board... opinions are posted. If those opinions turn out to be wrong... BFD!

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
Then why are you mocking me for asking reasonable questions that you can't answer? And telling me "I'm getting all spooled up".

"Reasonable questions"? When?

And I'm simply suggesting you relax.

Right back at you! I'm 100% relaxed, and discussing the unfounded allegations of corruption, and simply pointing out that they don't make sense. And when folks like you can't answer my reasonable questions? A reasonable person would take this into consideration, instead of brushing it off.

Your retort is "wait and see', instead of "fair point, but let's wait and see".

It's yet another time where we are likely talking past each other, Tech, and reading stuff into the other's posts that simply aren't there.

To wit: you think Weiss is corrupt. And it took several posts for me to understand that.

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:25 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:17 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:08 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

It's a politics page on a lacrosse board... opinions are posted. If those opinions turn out to be wrong... BFD!

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
Then why are you mocking me for asking reasonable questions that you can't answer? And telling me "I'm getting all spooled up".

"Reasonable questions"? When?

And I'm simply suggesting you relax.

Right back at you! I'm 100% relaxed, and discussing the unfounded allegations of corruption, and simply pointing out that they don't make sense. And when folks like you can't answer my reasonable questions? A reasonable person would take this into consideration, instead of brushing it off.

Your retort is "wait and see', instead of "fair point, but let's wait and see".

It's yet another time where we are likely talking past each other, Tech, and reading stuff into the other's posts that simply aren't there.

To wit: you think Weiss is corrupt. And it took several posts for me to understand that.

I'd say "fair point" if I knew what the point, is. As far as your "reasonable questions", I don't even understand what the hell you're asking half the time.

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:16 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:01 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:50 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:49 am Background from a, IMO, reliable source, published one month before the WBs testified, before Archer testified, and before bank records show evidence of $20M was paid to the Bidens.

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/13/hunter-biden-fbi/

"Former Trump Attorney General Bill Barr, meanwhile, told Fox News that the investigation into the specific allegations contained in the FD-1023 was never closed. Rather, Barr said, the evidence was assessed not to be disinformation and forwarded on to the Delaware prosecutor probing Hunter Biden, an investigation that remains ongoing — frustratingly so for Barr. “I think it’s time to fish or cut bait and find out what actually happened in that investigation,” he said."

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/08/09/ ... k-records/

"The tally of foreign money to the Biden family has hit at least $20 million, based on the third round of bank records the House Oversight and Accountability Committee released Wednesday—pointing to millions from oligarchs from Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine."

Just saw Barr on Cavuto. He said essentially the same thing. It's obvious the investigation was still underway & that Weiss was not yet ready to indict by the time Barr left office on Dec 14, 2020.

That's not good enough for afan, his goalpost is that if Barr didn't insist on Weiss indicting Hunter before he left office... blah, blah, blah, whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

So you post that Barr clarified his past statements ten minutes ago, and I'm supposed to have intuited that with my crystal ball?

It's 100% good for me!! The investigation was still going, despite past assertions, and Barr cleared it up. Great! Are you enjoying the fresh air of dealing with someone who isn't wearing a TinFoilHat?

So....now what? Now we're back to you and Tech alleging that Weiss is corrupt.

BTW, YOU are the one moving the goalposts: what I said was.........why can't Barr indict on what he has on hand, and keep investigating on the larger issues of Joe? And why would Barr put Weiss in charge, AND not ask for a SP if Weiss was on the level in Barr's eyes?

Why don't you just ST*FU & listen to what Barr is saying. Did I say Weiss is corrupt ? I don't know yet.
I doubt that he's corrupt. More likely, doing what he's told by his bosses -->Garland & Monaco & doing what he needs to do to keep living in DE & practicing law there if & when he leaves govt service, but I don't know yet, which is why I wanted to hear him testify before the House, but that's now further delayed because now finally a SC, which was done too late to prevent the SOL expiring for '14-'15. Part of the Biden Admin's delay strategy.

Barr's interview with Cavuto just popped up. The Hunter stuff starts around 17:30.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6334108332112

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:53 pm All of this ambiguity and incessant back and forth points out something painfully obvious. Barr, Garland and Weiss should testify side by side by side under oath and explain their chain of thought. There is enough testimony already on record and under oath that these people should testify not behind closed doors but in front of the American people to verify what they know and when they knew it.

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:28 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:25 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:17 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:08 pm

tech37 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:42 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
You have ZERO proof of your allegations of corruption. And what are you doing?

It's a politics page on a lacrosse board... opinions are posted. If those opinions turn out to be wrong... BFD!

a fan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:52 pm
Then why are you mocking me for asking reasonable questions that you can't answer? And telling me "I'm getting all spooled up".

"Reasonable questions"? When?

And I'm simply suggesting you relax.

Right back at you! I'm 100% relaxed, and discussing the unfounded allegations of corruption, and simply pointing out that they don't make sense. And when folks like you can't answer my reasonable questions? A reasonable person would take this into consideration, instead of brushing it off.

Your retort is "wait and see', instead of "fair point, but let's wait and see".

It's yet another time where we are likely talking past each other, Tech, and reading stuff into the other's posts that simply aren't there.

To wit: you think Weiss is corrupt. And it took several posts for me to understand that.

I'd say "fair point" if I knew what the point, is. As far as your "reasonable questions", I don't even understand what the hell you're asking half the time.

+1. It's impossible to have a rational discussion in the midst of all the incomprehensible chirping.