All things CoronaVirus

[SCLaxAttack]

+2!

+3, although we'll know you're really back and feeling better when you start posting jokes!

[DMac]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

[JoeMauer89]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

Dmac,

This is a very salient point, but unfortunately you are going to be meet with strong opposition on this particular thread. And I mean that in a serious non-mocking matter. It's been tried and tried before but you are going to meet pushback for that. Just my personal experience when we try to be a bit open-minded and think outside the box!!

Joe

[Typical Lax Dad]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

People will eventually die of something. What’s not full disclosure? He was going to die at some point anyway?

[njbill]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

I’ll turn that around on you. How do you know the numbers aren’t higher?

At least for the cause of death on a death certificate, I’m pretty sure there are some rules and regulations that apply such that it is illegal, or at least violative of some type of regulation, to put an inaccurate cause on the cert.

Don’t know if the stats are coming from death certificates (doubt it) or some other source. Regardless, what is your basis for thinking that the causes are intentionally inaccurate? If you are suggesting some mistakes might’ve been made, maybe, but mistakes are made all the time in every human endeavor. As noted above, it seems if there are mistakes (and surely there are some), they could just have easily have been in the wrong direction such that the number are understated.

Seems to me that the excess death analysis is a pretty good double check.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

I’ll turn that around on you. How do you know the numbers aren’t higher?

At least for the cause of death on a death certificate, I’m pretty sure there are some rules and regulations that apply such that it is illegal, or at least violative of some type of regulation, to put an inaccurate cause on the cert.

Don’t know if the stats are coming from death certificates (doubt it) or some other source. Regardless, what is your basis for thinking that the causes are intentionally inaccurate? If you are suggesting some mistakes might’ve been made, maybe, but mistakes are made all the time in every human endeavor. As noted above, it seems if there are mistakes (and surely there are some), they could just have easily have been in the wrong direction such that the number are understated.

Seems to me that the excess death analysis is a pretty good double check.

I believe the numbers are higher also but of course older people are disproportionately represented.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

I’ll turn that around on you. How do you know the numbers aren’t higher?

At least for the cause of death on a death certificate, I’m pretty sure there are some rules and regulations that apply such that it is illegal, or at least violative of some type of regulation, to put an inaccurate cause on the cert.

Don’t know if the stats are coming from death certificates (doubt it) or some other source. Regardless, what is your basis for thinking that the causes are intentionally inaccurate? If you are suggesting some mistakes might’ve been made, maybe, but mistakes are made all the time in every human endeavor. As noted above, it seems if there are mistakes (and surely there are some), they could just have easily have been in the wrong direction such that the number are understated.

Seems to me that the excess death analysis is a pretty good double check.

I believe DMac, similar to ABV 8.3% situation, believe old people deaths should be discounted if they have dementia or are already compromised. One foot probably already in the grave.

[Farfromgeneva]

I could go upstairs and check but my mother went into the hospital with a broken shoulder in Feb, they locked her in there due to Covid so I couldn’t see her or she couldn’t be tossed when an MRI picked up dark spots which were late March confirmed to be Liver Cancer. She died end of April in ICU and I never got the technical cause of death for her but they could’ve put it as Covid. I don’t think so but NA check in ten min. It’s possible that’s what technically killed her like Enron failed because of a liquidity problem (which is technically true but the reality is they sold off all their assets and pulled the gains in to look like
Operating income until the point where the assets they had couldn’t generate debt service coverage and there wasn’t enough left to sell off).

[DMac]

Let me reiterate, boys, I'm not trying to be argumentative or come across as a non believer who is on the conspiracy theory/all a big hoax bandwagon. I'm simply confused.
My answer, nj, is I don't know. Now answer my question, would these 350K-500K numbers be 0 but for covid?
Here's an example of my confusion:
Friend of mine, died recently, this is a picture of him probably before he had to turn sideways to walk down stairs (literally). Was this way all his life (play him in ping pong or shoot H-O-R-S-E better bring your A game..crazy) Went in the hospital with foot problems (diabetic? Highly likely), never came back out (he was 69-70), word has it, covid. I just have a hard time with that and question it. How many cases like this being reported? I've got no answers, just questions.

[youthathletics]

Looks like we are going to eclipse 350,000 deaths by January 1st. I had estimated 300,000 and thought that would be a win for us. I believe we will be at 500,000 by April 1. I would take that as a win.

How sure are we of that 350K being covid caused deaths, or the 500K? But for covid, would those numbers be 0?
Can't help but think of the 92 year old veteran who recently died, cause of death listed as covid. Strikes me as that not being full disclosure, surely there were other factors.
Not meant to be argumentative or to come across as a conspiracy believer, but I do question the numbers we're given.

Dmac,

This is a very salient point, but unfortunately you are going to be meet with strong opposition on this particular thread. And I mean that in a serious non-mocking matter. It's been tried and tried before but you are going to meet pushback for that. Just my personal experience when we try to be a bit open-minded and think outside the box!!

Joe

+1. How dare anyone question anything related to Covid DMAC. Just listen to Fauci, wear your mask , and shut up.

[njbill]

If your point is you question whether the numbers are 100% accurate, I’d agree with you. I’m sure that’s the case. But that’s the case for deaths listed as caused by heart attacks, strokes, etc.

As long as the people listing the causes of death are trying to be as accurate as possible, that’s all we can ask for. A few mistakes, here or there, are understandable.

But if someone has underlying conditions which make them more susceptible to Covid than a healthy 18 year old, I still think it is appropriate to list Covid as the cause of death if that’s what done them in, even if they would have died of some other cause down the road.

If someone who has terminal cancer gets hit by a bus, the cause of death is the bus, not the cancer.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t think anyone, maybe Doc, has said anything remotely similar to what is in that last post Kram. Maybe in your personal life but not here. So why would you state such a thing that hasn’t been demonstrated within this universe as some dogmatic mantra of a position by hypothetical non existent people?

[Farfromgeneva]

If your point is you question whether the numbers are 100% accurate, I’d agree with you. I’m sure that’s the case. But that’s the case for deaths listed as caused by heart attacks, strokes, etc.

As long as the people listing the causes of death are trying to be as accurate as possible, that’s all we can ask for. A few mistakes, here or there, are understandable.

But if someone has underlying conditions which make them more susceptible to Covid than a healthy 18 year old, I still think it is appropriate to list Covid as a cause of death if that’s what done them in, even if they would have died of some other cause down the road.

If someone who has terminal cancer gets hit by a bus, the cause of death is the bus, not the cancer.

The line of “they could’ve died down the road” is a tough one but I know hospitals and the medical industry has a maze of rules and regulations they have to follow so it could be partially due to the narrow and poor boxes created by an agency or regulatory body.

But this is the same argument over and over.
If one thing is incorrect, mistakenly or otherwise, it’s proof of the opposite position for people even if tangential and one out of millions of data points. It’s a tired methodology that’s intellectually dishonest and weak to make this claim and yet it’s used over and over.

“See proof” this one tangentially related item out of hundreds of thousands of examples proves the entirety of your position is wrong and I’m right. Lazy.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Let me reiterate, boys, I'm not trying to be argumentative or come across as a non believer who is on the conspiracy theory/all a big hoax bandwagon. I'm simply confused.
My answer, nj, is I don't know. Now answer my question, would these 350K-500K numbers be 0 but for covid?
Here's an example of my confusion:
Friend of mine, died recently, this is a picture of him probably before he had to turn sideways to walk down stairs (literally). Was this way all his life (play him in ping pong or shoot H-O-R-S-E better bring your A game..crazy) Went in the hospital with foot problems (diabetic? Highly likely), never came back out (he was 69-70), word has it, covid. I just have a hard time with that and question it. How many cases like this being reported? I've got no answers, just questions.

Why would you think it was something other than complications from Covid? Diabetes and Covid are a deadly mix. If you went into the hospital early on with Covid, the outcomes were not great.

As for an answer to your question. Those 350,000 may not have died on that day by that cause. Some could have had a heart attack, some a stroke, some an aneurism, some a car accident, some cancer etc. If you eliminated heart attacks, would the pool of deaths go to 0? Does that mean heart attack deaths are overstated? Old man dies in a car accident... that doesn’t count because the guy was old and sick anyway?

[DMac]

Because I'm actually surprised he lived as long as he did, covid or no covid. Guaranteed he weighed 400+ (heavy on the plus side) for decades, smoked at least a pack of cigarettes a day...non drinker though. Just hard for me to imagine it's not more complicated than just covid. Like nj's comment though, yup, it was the bus.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Because I'm actually surprised he lived as long as he did, covid or no covid. Guaranteed he weighed 400+ (heavy on the plus side) for decades, smoked at least a pack of cigarettes a day...non drinker though. Just hard for me to imagine it's not more complicated than just covid. Like nj's comment though, yup, it was the bus.

I am sure something else would have gotten him eventually. Doesn’t mean Covid was the cause. I sure there are plenty of people that were going to die at some point. The older your are, the closer you are to end.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... ung-adults

I am sure this will be picked apart but its an attempt to show the disease is deadly. Knowing that we are close to 2 million dead people globally is good enough for me.

How many of these boxes did your friend check?

Adults of any age with the following conditions are at increased risk of severe illness from the virus that causes COVID-19:

Cancer
Chronic kidney disease
COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)
Down Syndrome
Heart conditions, such as heart failure, coronary artery disease, or cardiomyopathies
Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from solid organ transplant
Obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 30 kg/m2 or higher but < 40 kg/m2)
Severe Obesity (BMI ≥ 40 kg/m2)
Pregnancy
Sickle cell disease
Smoking
Type 2 diabetes mellitus

[wgdsr]

so was watching something late yesterday, and either a state health official or nursing home rep was saying they were hesitant to give the vaccine to residents because as they die in great numbers there, people would think that it was because of the vaccine. can't find an article on it.
then there's this:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nursing-ho ... 1608477474

72% of nursing assistants there.

and this:
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 6305b9c44e

residents, staff and caretakers/custodians.

there are a bunch of articles on the hesitation in nursing homes nationwide. one in washington said at least 2/3 of the homes have at least one active case now.
similar stories with health care workers in general. looks like people are going to be more than a bit difficult to convince to roll these vaxxes out full steam. buckle up, we may be here awhile.

[CU88]

The coronavirus will simply “go away”

PREDICTED BY DONALD TRUMP … MANY, MANY TIMES

March 6: “It’ll go away.”
March 10: “Just stay calm. It will go away.”
March 12: “It’s going to go away.”
March 30: “It will go away. You know it — you know it is going away, and it will go away, and we’re going to have a great victory.”
March 31: “It’s going to go away, hopefully at the end of the month. And, if not, hopefully it will be soon after that.”
April 3: “It is going to go away… It’s going — I didn’t say a date. … I said ‘it’s going away,’ and it is going away.”
April 7: “It did go — it will go away.”
May 15: “It’ll go away — at some point, it’ll go away.”
June 15: “At some point, this stuff goes away. And it's going away.”
July 19: “I will be right eventually. You know, I said, ‘It's going to disappear.’ I'll say it again.”
Aug. 5: “This thing's going away. It will go away like things go away.”
Aug. 31: “It's going to go away.”
Sept. 15: “It is going away. And it's probably going to go away now a lot faster because of the vaccines.”
Oct. 10: “It's going to disappear; it is disappearing.”
Oct. 24: “It is going away; it’s rounding the turn.”


Since Nov 3rd, "I really don't care..."

[Brooklyn]

Ironic Comment of the Day:




https://i.imgur.com/z4Nyffh.png

[Typical Lax Dad]

so was watching something late yesterday, and either a state health official or nursing home rep was saying they were hesitant to give the vaccine to residents because as they die in great numbers there, people would think that it was because of the vaccine. can't find an article on it.
then there's this:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nursing-ho ... 1608477474

72% of nursing assistants there.

and this:
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 6305b9c44e

residents, staff and caretakers/custodians.

there are a bunch of articles on the hesitation in nursing homes nationwide. one in washington said at least 2/3 of the homes have at least one active case now.
similar stories with health care workers in general. looks like people are going to be more than a bit difficult to convince to roll these vaxxes out full steam. buckle up, we may be here awhile.

Thats an interesting take. Had not thought about that angle...given the climate we are in nothing surprises me.