LaxPower Back-Up Stick

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position? That's like saying since you burnt the steak once - ribeyes suck. Look, you can pick at the goalie situation carcass and say PM should have done this or not done that but I am not sure what those things might be. He was clearly not dealing with a position of strength and a bunch of things happened which on the surface appear beyond his control - once again a tried and true retread topic but let's go back to 2019 and 20 and see if it sinks in this time:
In 2019 - Petro had 3 goalies on the roster - earlier i made an inaccurate statement that Marcille was on this team - apologies- Darby/Giacolone and freshman Alex Gainey. Darby played virtually every second - Giacolone got two minor mop-ups and Gainey did not play. Darby - someone who a certain poster "THANKED GOD" when he was no longer on the roster - posted a sub 45% save percentage
2020 - There were now 4 goalies on the roster with the addition of Marcille - In the abbreviated 6 games - Darby started 5 appeared in all 6 and raised his save percentage about 2 points to just under 47%. Giacalone appeared in 3 games but only played 32 minutes. Gainey and Marcille DNP.
Post April 2020 - Gainey transfers to BU and Demopolous decommits from the fall 21 class. The freshman goalie from Shadyside in PA has a complete non athletic issue and is dismissed from the school. Giacalone I think had another year of eligibility but after 4 years and only playing about an hour of game time he was not on the roster for 21. So the goalie room was down to 2 - a career 45% starter and a freshman eligible who had never played. Was a transfer desparately needed? Yes Yes it was. Did he get one of the better ones out there according to the pundits? Yes he did. Could he/should he have gotten someone else - well all I can say - again - is it takes two to tango - so did it begin and end with Kirson - who knows - but the player has to also want to come to Hopkins and there has to be an academic fit.
2021 - WIth the decommit of Demopolous PM had no goalie in the 21/22 class and of course most everyone had committed elsewhere - he secured a late commitment from Webb. Also the 22/23 class had a goalie commit - Lawson - who decommittd at a very late date putting that class with no goalie recruit. For that year - Kirson started 9 games - reportedly injured and Marcille finished the season - the goalie room was Kirson/Darby/Marcille
2022 - Darby was no longer on the roster - Webb arrived - and more nominal depth was added with a DIII transfer (who undoubtedly knew the volunteer assistat coach) Versfeld - Kirson played virtually the entire season - Versfeld and Marcille played to what amounted to a half each and Webb played a few minutes
Post 2022 season - Kirson exhausted his eligibility - there was no goalie from the 20/21 class because of the off-field incident - there was no incoming goalie for the 22/23 class because of the late Lawson decommit and (I assume) the inability to match up with any other recruit who had not committed elsewhere. So the goalie room was down to 3 again - incredibly void of DI experience. Was the consideration of a transfer warranted - yes it was. Are 1 year rentals optimal - no they are not but sometimes you do what you have to.

So again - the goalie situation has been a dumpster fire for many many years. Some might argue early recruiting is especially fraught with peril at that position. Why not be happy that your coach is trying things instead of this incessant whining?

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position?

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown.

jhu06 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:04 pm I don't know what's new here but for the PLL folks who aren't part of the school another writeup on Rabil.
https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2022/winte ... -lacrosse/

youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:22 pm

jhu06 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 3:04 pm I don't know what's new here but for the PLL folks who aren't part of the school another writeup on Rabil.
https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2022/winte ... -lacrosse/

Nice article. Not a big fan of PR for reasons of another discussion, that may very well be an assumption on my part, but you have to acknowledge that he is a fighter, at least as it relates to his passion of the sport.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:12 pm

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown.

You'd love that, wouldn't you?

I'm done addressing this rube's posts, he's clearly no longer an actual fan and his only function at this point is to troll and cry. Would suggest everyone do the same, but it's a free country.

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:04 am

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:12 pm

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown.

You'd love that, wouldn't you?

I'm done addressing this rube's posts, he's clearly no longer an actual fan and his only function at this point is to troll and cry. Would suggest everyone do the same, but it's a free country.

Irony.

Not exactly the mission statement a public forum should espouse. It is an opinion on a possible outcome of future events. Has nothing to do with whether he is a fan or not

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position?

So it sounds like the answer is NO.
You can't name a transfer goalie in the last hundred years who has worked out for us.

I looked at Bryant's schedule last year and it looks like Luke played heavyweights Providence, Merrimack, Air Force, Hobart, Vermont and Sacred Heart.
If he went 53% against that schedule, he should go about 33% against ours.

I would hope that they would have an open competition in January and pick the best goalie based on metrics and statistics. Just anointing someone the starter because he transferred in is a mistake. They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown. Not sure this team can recover from 0-2 given their lack of talent and strength of schedule.

Sorry, I don't think your space aliens understand lacrosse too well.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:43 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position?

So it sounds like the answer is NO.
You can't name a transfer goalie in the last hundred years who has worked out for us.

I looked at Bryant's schedule last year and it looks like Luke played heavyweights Providence, Merrimack, Air Force, Hobart, Vermont and Sacred Heart.
If he went 53% against that schedule, he should go about 33% against ours.

I would hope that they would have an open competition in January and pick the best goalie based on metrics and statistics. Just anointing someone the starter because he transferred in is a mistake. They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown. Not sure this team can recover from 0-2 given their lack of talent and strength of schedule.

Sorry, I don't think your space aliens understand lacrosse too well.

To be fair, in the past decade of goalie recruiting, which tenders have "worked out for us"?
Two different coaching staffs...

Of course they'll evaluate and do their best to put who they think will do the best in and out of the net. Not sure why anyone would think they will do otherwise. Doesn't mean they'll get it right, but then again...it's not as if the former staff was doing well on this 'metric' in their last years...or am I missing something?

Said a million times, but ER messed the bed in goalie recruiting at Hop.

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:06 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:43 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position?

So it sounds like the answer is NO.
You can't name a transfer goalie in the last hundred years who has worked out for us.

I looked at Bryant's schedule last year and it looks like Luke played heavyweights Providence, Merrimack, Air Force, Hobart, Vermont and Sacred Heart.
If he went 53% against that schedule, he should go about 33% against ours.

I would hope that they would have an open competition in January and pick the best goalie based on metrics and statistics. Just anointing someone the starter because he transferred in is a mistake. They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown. Not sure this team can recover from 0-2 given their lack of talent and strength of schedule.

Sorry, I don't think your space aliens understand lacrosse too well.

To be fair, in the past decade of goalie recruiting, which tenders have "worked out for us"?
Two different coaching staffs...

Of course they'll evaluate and do their best to put who they think will do the best in and out of the net. Not sure why anyone would think they will do otherwise. Doesn't mean they'll get it right, but then again...it's not as if the former staff was doing well on this 'metric' in their last years...or am I missing something?

Said a million times, but ER messed the bed in goalie recruiting at Hop.

Eric Schneider really worked out for us and Bassett really worked out for us. Those were the two best goalies we've had in the last dozen years. I just don't really agree with the transfer goalie model for a number a reasons. Why not trust players in your system over players who got PT against lesser schedules? It's like trying to patch up your program with Band-Aids. Elite goalies who can give you 60% against top competition are rarely available for transfer. I would like to see either Webb or Marcille start to be honest. Work with what you got rather than constantly shaking up the pot.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:10 am

OCanada wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:04 am

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:12 pm

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown.

You'd love that, wouldn't you?

I'm done addressing this rube's posts, he's clearly no longer an actual fan and his only function at this point is to troll and cry. Would suggest everyone do the same, but it's a free country.

Irony.

Not exactly the mission statement a public forum should espouse. It is an opinion on a possible outcome of future events. Has nothing to do with whether he is a fan or not

I can do whatever I want. So can you and everyone else. If you’ve paid attention to his posts lately, you’d know he is rooting for the team to fail — a position he has not denied. I can deal with a lot questionable fan behavior (for instance, your tiresome holier-than-thou schtick), but I won’t deal with someone who doesn’t want the team to do well. Sorry! If you want to be his best friend no one is stopping you pal.

06 — most if not all of ESPN’s online lacrosse coverage is moving to ESPN+. It has nothing to do with us.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:43 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:06 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:43 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position?

So it sounds like the answer is NO.
You can't name a transfer goalie in the last hundred years who has worked out for us.

I looked at Bryant's schedule last year and it looks like Luke played heavyweights Providence, Merrimack, Air Force, Hobart, Vermont and Sacred Heart.
If he went 53% against that schedule, he should go about 33% against ours.

I would hope that they would have an open competition in January and pick the best goalie based on metrics and statistics. Just anointing someone the starter because he transferred in is a mistake. They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown. Not sure this team can recover from 0-2 given their lack of talent and strength of schedule.

Sorry, I don't think your space aliens understand lacrosse too well.

To be fair, in the past decade of goalie recruiting, which tenders have "worked out for us"?
Two different coaching staffs...

Of course they'll evaluate and do their best to put who they think will do the best in and out of the net. Not sure why anyone would think they will do otherwise. Doesn't mean they'll get it right, but then again...it's not as if the former staff was doing well on this 'metric' in their last years...or am I missing something?

Said a million times, but ER messed the bed in goalie recruiting at Hop.

Eric Schneider really worked out for us and Bassett really worked out for us. Those were the two best goalies we've had in the last dozen years. I just don't really agree with the transfer goalie model for a number a reasons. Why not trust players in your system over players who got PT against lesser schedules? It's like trying to patch up your program with Band-Aids. Elite goalies who can give you 60% against top competition are rarely available for transfer. I would like to see either Webb or Marcille start to be honest. Work with what you got rather than constantly shaking up the pot.

ohhh, I wouldn't debate that it's not better to grow your own strong starter and bench, not rely on transfers. Including grad transfers.

There's not a ton of data on goalie transfer situations, so I don't think we can draw conclusions from the very small set.

It'll be interesting to see what Dartmouth's Hincks does as a grad transfer at Georgetown and what Harvard's Mullin does for Rutgers as a grad transfer.

My son was in the process of considering doing grad year when concussions took him off the field altogether...had that not happened, pretty sure he'd have done well at any program in need of a proven starter. He'd faced multiple Tewey winners, multiple very high scoring offenses at the highest level, and didn't have a strong defense, having lost 2 legit AA defenders to injury and terrible X play...so, saw a lot of shots. Having Adam Ghittleman coach him in college, well prepared.

So, I wouldn't rule out the transfer being successful, but there's no guarantee. Nor year to year performance for that matter, eg. Schneider's 2014 versus his 2015 season (but, yes, he worked out). My point about decade was that Schneider would have been getting recruited back in 2010...there was a slew of bad busts in ER after him.

I'm sure these guys will be competing.

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:20 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:43 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:06 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:43 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:55 pm

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:15 pm Did I miss something the last 40-50 years? How many times has Hopkins needed a transfer at that position?

So it sounds like the answer is NO.
You can't name a transfer goalie in the last hundred years who has worked out for us.

I looked at Bryant's schedule last year and it looks like Luke played heavyweights Providence, Merrimack, Air Force, Hobart, Vermont and Sacred Heart.
If he went 53% against that schedule, he should go about 33% against ours.

I would hope that they would have an open competition in January and pick the best goalie based on metrics and statistics. Just anointing someone the starter because he transferred in is a mistake. They need to get it right too, because they could easily go 0-2 to start the season against Jacksonville and Georgetown. Not sure this team can recover from 0-2 given their lack of talent and strength of schedule.

Sorry, I don't think your space aliens understand lacrosse too well.

To be fair, in the past decade of goalie recruiting, which tenders have "worked out for us"?
Two different coaching staffs...

Of course they'll evaluate and do their best to put who they think will do the best in and out of the net. Not sure why anyone would think they will do otherwise. Doesn't mean they'll get it right, but then again...it's not as if the former staff was doing well on this 'metric' in their last years...or am I missing something?

Said a million times, but ER messed the bed in goalie recruiting at Hop.

Eric Schneider really worked out for us and Bassett really worked out for us. Those were the two best goalies we've had in the last dozen years. I just don't really agree with the transfer goalie model for a number a reasons. Why not trust players in your system over players who got PT against lesser schedules? It's like trying to patch up your program with Band-Aids. Elite goalies who can give you 60% against top competition are rarely available for transfer. I would like to see either Webb or Marcille start to be honest. Work with what you got rather than constantly shaking up the pot.

ohhh, I wouldn't debate that it's not better to grow your own strong starter and bench, not rely on transfers. Including grad transfers.

There's not a ton of data on goalie transfer situations, so I don't think we can draw conclusions from the very small set.

It'll be interesting to see what Dartmouth's Hincks does as a grad transfer at Georgetown and what Harvard's Mullin does for Rutgers as a grad transfer.

My son was in the process of considering doing grad year when concussions took him off the field altogether...had that not happened, pretty sure he'd have done well at any program in need of a proven starter. He'd faced multiple Tewey winners, multiple very high scoring offenses at the highest level, and didn't have a strong defense, having lost 2 legit AA defenders to injury and terrible X play...so, saw a lot of shots. Having Adam Ghittleman coach him in college, well prepared.

So, I wouldn't rule out the transfer being successful, but there's no guarantee. Nor year to year performance for that matter, eg. Schneider's 2014 versus his 2015 season (but, yes, he worked out). My point about decade was that Schneider would have been getting recruited back in 2010...there was a slew of bad busts in ER after him.

I'm sure these guys will be competing.

Blue Jays have had some talent in the goalie room the past dozen years or so. Just not sure they were developed by the coaching staff as well as they could have been.

DocBarrister

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:43 pm ER is over, so the question is whether Hop can build a goalie room with sufficient talent and a great culture that produces top level goalie play at game time. Time will tell.

nyjay wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:52 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:43 pm ER is over, so the question is whether Hop can build a goalie room with sufficient talent and a great culture that produces top level goalie play at game time. Time will tell.

I think you have to get lucky too. Haven't done a deep dive, but it doesn't seem to me like there has been much correlation between recruiting status and AA honors at the goalie position recently and I don't think that's a Hop-only phenomena (though our luck does seem to have been particularly bad).

51percentcorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:36 pm By the strict literal defintion of a fan - short for fanatic - you can certainly include someone that is 100% negative with regards to the object of the strong interest - but the definition goes on to specificaly identify a fan as someone that typically shows admiration - which he clearly does not. And I would submit no fan of a college team where the vast majority of players are not in it for the money should be "Thanking God" a player - who tried his very best - is no longer on the team. And he is so often just ridiculously wrong - it's painful. May I remind everyone that it was just a short time ago when Milliman was a "straight shooter" and just wanted "results on the field". Now apparently he might in QANON. If that doesn't do it for you the 4 words "warming up the goalie" almost has to. I am also slightly confused about his identification of Bassett and Schneider as the two best goalies recently as I remember on laxpower Brock Turnbaugh was going to be an all american and "sky's the limit." BTW - Schneider's save percentage in 2015 - the year they went to the final four was 48% and they lost 7 games. The Stanwicks/Tinney/Brown/Crawley/Cattoni/Reed/Fraser scoring over 230 goals (the most ever by a Petro team) might have had a little something to do with Schneider "really working out" .

molo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm So Turnbaugh (Hereford) was not prepared to play at the level of Hopkins’ competition? Jesse S. (Pikesville) played against the same high opponents as did Turnbaugh. Refresh my memory, please. How did Hopkins do with that public school kid between the pipes?