All things CoronaVirus

[Typical Lax Dad]

UFB: https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/aoc-recor ... ssion=true

Are you equally offended that Mother got vaccinated?

Nope.

[Brooklyn]

I think you've missed...she's not a Trump supporter.
Remember, some conservatives really, really dislike Trump.

But she is a right winger - from wiki:


2008:
In November 2008, various of McArdle's blog posts on the subject were quoted approvingly by conservative commentators David Brooks, Michael Barone and John Podhoretz, among others.

2012:
In 2012, David Brooks called McArdle one of the most influential bloggers on the right.





In the past she used the pen name John Galt in her writings which shows her affirmations of right wing delusionalism. In the writing that we are discussing she goes to tRUMP's defense and ignores the fact that he completely disregarded preventive measures offered by Obama. Therefore, contrary to her delusionalism, tRUMP is fully to blame for the uncontrolled outbreak for this plague.

[Brooklyn]

She makes some obvious points, but I really really doubt her depth of knowledge of the subject. She is more a rank and file republican apologist.

Exactly.

When Clinton was in office, every week ultra right wing pundit Cal Thomas accused him of causing nationwide lapses in "morality" . Any problem that existed in society, ever what its cause could be, the right wing nuts would scream "BLAME CLINTON, BLAME CLINTON, BLAME CLINTON!". 9/11 was attributed to Clinton. The Great Recession was as well. All that while delusional pundits held Bush to be blameless even though he lied and caused the needless deaths of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then 2008 came - Katrina was attributed to Obama. The national debt was now, somehow, something he created. Evils that occurred in the Middle Ages were attributed to one or the other. Even the Fall in the Garden of Eden was attributed to them.

McArdle may not entirely like tRUMP but she is attempting to deflect blame from him and the right wing powers that be. Whether anyone likes it or not, tRUMP is strictly to blame for the proliferation of the plague. Any attempt to deflect blame from him is nothing more than partisan BS.

[Bart]

She makes some obvious points, but I really really doubt her depth of knowledge of the subject. She is more a rank and file republican apologist.

And yet.................we have no lack of experts here with 1000+ pages of posts. Myself included

[youthathletics]

UFB: https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/aoc-recor ... ssion=true

Are you equally offended that Mother got vaccinated?

Who?

[Bart]

This person does a good job of comparing the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. She goes into many of the other candidates as well. It is a very interesting read.

https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2020/1 ... 2-roundup/

[MDlaxfan76]

so someone finally said some of it out loud. surprising, she has some chutzpah.

I dunno, she's a well known conservative blogger and columnist for the the Wash Post. But not a Trump supporter, obviously. Pretty on brand for her.

It's a good piece IMO and an appropriate challenge for the Biden folks.

I am not convinced her summary is as thorough or honest as it could be. After all, she completely disregarded President Obama's pandemic playbook:

https://couriernewsroom.com/2020/04/14/ ... -his-work/


And, as we discussed previously, the Idiot-In-Chief initially blame Obama for the failed response when it could have been a great deal more effective if that idiot had not disregarded the warnings:

Sensing this threat, the Obama administration acted early and decisively to prevent the swine flu pandemic from devastating the U.S. Just a week after the flu first appeared in Mexico, Obama instructed every federal agency to play a role in preparing the U.S. for a pandemic. H1N1 was first detected in the U.S. on April 15, 2009 and within a week, the CDC had already begun working to develop a vaccine and activated its Emergency Operations Center to respond to what it identified as a growing public health threat.

Eleven days after the first case was confirmed, the federal government declared a public health emergency and began releasing medical supplies and drugs from the CDC’s Strategic National Stockpile. By April 28, 2009, the Food and Drug Administration approved a new CDC test to detect H1N1 infections.

Obama’s response to the 2014 Ebola outbreak was similarly marked by action.


We did not see any such response from moronic tRUMP. While McArdle does make some valid points, for her to disregard tRUMP's stupidity in this regard is beyond all reason. Obviously she is trying to defend her hero but anyone who has kept up with the headlines knows that her claims fall FAR short of the truth truth.

no less than incoming chief of staff ron klain, who was biden's chief of staff at the time and obama's future ebola czar, said they did absolutely everything wrong and were fortunate that there weren't mass casualties as a result.
or, we could do everything perfectly in hindsight.

I suspect you'd agree that Klain's point was one of humility, and a warning, not the notion that they were purposely idiotic for drill, or worse, for political gain.

He gets quoted quite unreasonably IMO, unless one credits the humility involved, the recognition that this is deadly serious stuff and deserves far more advance planning than they'd done, or their predecessors had done... it was a forward leaning statement of warning.

it was a forward thinking think tank.
but i suspect it was more honesty than you'll ever hear? how you conflate that with humility in the context of the convo is perplexing.

why "more honesty than you'll ever hear?"...we heard it...he chose to say it...it was a humble statement, in the context of challenging ourselves to do better going forward.

Hard sometimes in the politicized world in which taking responsibility, being humble about mistakes, is too often tagged as weakness. But it's exactly what we voters and citizens should appreciate and reward when we can.

i don't disagree with the above. that doesn't, as your post prior suggests, that he's unreasonably quoted unless his humility is put face forward. i haven't the slightest idea why they effed up, in his words. we were coming out of a recession, and had a lot of priorities. i don't know and neither do you. and i don't suggest i know.

all i know is brooklyn said to contrast everything today by how great they did then. so i replied. and the guy in the room and with some chops said that if we weren't fortuitous, we would've had one of the mass casualty events in our history on our hands.

in addition to that, honesty and humility are appreciated.

Let's just say that positioning Klain's comments as accidentally honest about the mistakes made and using that to say the bums before didn't do anything right would be an overstatement...I don't think that was your intent, though others might misunderstand. By contrast I think it was a refreshingly humble statement, made to spur further forward leaning preparation.

I also think we have no reason to believe that the mistakes made, to the extent they were significant as Klain suggests, were actually comparable to the ongoing months and months of intentional deception in the face of clear evidence and knowledge of how deadly and easily spread this virus is. Knowing deception in the face of known calamity is different from mistakes in judgment or execution. IMO.

[MDlaxfan76]

I think you've missed...she's not a Trump supporter.
Remember, some conservatives really, really dislike Trump.

But she is a right winger - from wiki:


2008:
In November 2008, various of McArdle's blog posts on the subject were quoted approvingly by conservative commentators David Brooks, Michael Barone and John Podhoretz, among others.

2012:
In 2012, David Brooks called McArdle one of the most influential bloggers on the right.





In the past she used the pen name John Galt in her writings which shows her affirmations of right wing delusionalism. In the writing that we are discussing she goes to tRUMP's defense and ignores the fact that he completely disregarded preventive measures offered by Obama. Therefore, contrary to her delusionalism, tRUMP is fully to blame for the uncontrolled outbreak for this plague.

You're simply making my point that she's a conservative. But she blogged that she wasn't voting for Trump, she's not a Trumpist.

Do you agree 100% with her blog? It's no surprise that you don't.

I'm just saying that it's not that she's a Trumpist and she's highly critical of Trump's handling of the crisis...did she miss one or more elements of his mistakes? I think one could be more detailed about them, but she captured the gist of it.

But she's also warning of how the Biden Admin could fall short. Does she make some tough assumptions about Dems? Sure...but I'd treat that as a cautionary roadmap if I was a Dem, if I was in the Biden Admin.

I'm rooting for the Biden folks to get most of it right. It's important.

[Brooklyn]

I'm also rooting for Biden to get it right as well. But more to the point is that she made a major omission by ignoring the preventive steps offered by Obama. It was a bone head thing for tRUMP to do in dismissing his ideas which resulted in massive and preventable deaths. She is just as much at fault for failing to mention it.

[wgdsr]

I'm also rooting for Biden to get it right as well. But more to the point is that she made a major omission by ignoring the preventive steps offered by Obama. It was a bone head thing for tRUMP to do in dismissing his ideas which resulted in massive and preventable deaths. She is just as much at fault for failing to mention it.

what were the preventive steps?

[seacoaster]

This person does a good job of comparing the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines. She goes into many of the other candidates as well. It is a very interesting read.

https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2020/1 ... 2-roundup/

Thanks; good information.

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm also rooting for Biden to get it right as well. But more to the point is that she made a major omission by ignoring the preventive steps offered by Obama. It was a bone head thing for tRUMP to do in dismissing his ideas which resulted in massive and preventable deaths. She is just as much at fault for failing to mention it.

what were the preventive steps?

Better word might be 'preparative' steps instead of 'preventive'. Prepare well, react according to prepared plan, and perhaps one can 'prevent' greater disaster.

Brookie, is that what you mean?

If so, I think you're right, but I just don't think not delving into all the mistakes means she's excusing any. I'm just reading what she said and it seems to me she's acknowledging pretty darn well that Trump screwed the pooch. Her point from there is a warning for the Biden crew...which I think they'd do well to consider. It's pretty darn easy to let one's guard down to one's own blind spots.

[njbill]

UFB: https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/aoc-recor ... ssion=true

Are you equally offended that Mother got vaccinated?

Who?

Mother, as in Karen Pence.

At least AOC is a member of Congress.

I suppose it is inevitable, and the stories are widespread already, that the well-connected are jumping the line. I’m just a little surprised that Mrs. Pence would do it so publicly.

[wgdsr]

some good? interim news.
cases yesterday took our 7 day average to the first dip seen (according to worldometer) from 7 days prior since mid-september, not including the thanksgiving holiday dip on reporting. i had hoped based on europe that would occur at around the 200+k level (217+k yesterday vs 218.5k on dec 13), and hoped it wouldn't run up to 250k. this of course doesn't mean things don't restart north again, particularly with the new variant out of the uk showing we could get some surprises, but is better than escalating cases in a straight line and at least potentially something. we also seem to have capped on testing short term, so that may be muting somewhat any growth. tbd.

also, hospitalizations are within a stone's throw of flatlining from the 7 day average (covid tracking project). midwest has turned down already, but west, south and northeast remain headed up.

and deaths will lag, but up just 4% now from a week ago per reporting (worldometer), which doesn't adjust much for actual date of death, but does provide info on trend. i was hoping the longshot of that staying capped at around 3k(based on europe) and eventually trending down was at least possible.

none of this of course means we don't see worsening numbers and this could be nothing more than a blip, is to watch for now. with vaccines going into nursing home arms and next month into 75+ (after the elite, of course), there's some short term sun breaking the clouds.

[Brooklyn]

what were the preventive steps?

repeat post: https://tinyurl.com/y8ng35cl

[wgdsr]

what were the preventive steps?

repeat post: https://tinyurl.com/y8ng35cl

i'm asking you what were the preventative steps that were dismissed that:

I'm also rooting for Biden to get it right as well. But more to the point is that she made a major omission by ignoring the preventive steps offered by Obama. It was a bone head thing for tRUMP to do in dismissing his ideas which resulted in massive and preventable deaths. She is just as much at fault for failing to mention it.

McArdle may not entirely like tRUMP but she is attempting to deflect blame from him and the right wing powers that be. Whether anyone likes it or not, tRUMP is strictly to blame for the proliferation of the plague. Any attempt to deflect blame from him is nothing more than partisan BS.

this is from the second link in your link:
Multiple officials from the NSC and the US Department of Health Human Services told Politico that while they were aware of the document, they decided not to heavily rely on it.

A NSC official told Politico that the playbook is "quite dated and has been superseded by strategic and operational biodefense policies published since," adding, "The plan we are executing now is a better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons learned from the playbook and the most recent Ebola epidemic in the [Democratic Republic of the Congo] to COVID-19."

Specifically, a spokesperson from HHS further told Politico that its strategy for tackling coronavirus "was informed by more recent plans such as the foundation of the National Biodefense Strategy (2018), Biological Incident Annex (2017), and panCAP (2018) among other key plans."

Politico reported that another factor limiting the Trump administration's ability to fully implement the 2016 pandemic playbook was that the document never underwent the proper interagency vetting and approval processes to become an official part of the White House's strategy, despite former homeland security adviser Tom Bossert expressing interest in making it a permanent fixture of the US' policy toolkit when it came to pandemics.

Bossert, who left the administration told 2018, told Politico that he "engaged actively with my outgoing counterpart and took seriously their transition materials and recommendations on pandemic preparedness."

In 2018, the Trump administration shuttered the NSC health unit responsible for leading the White House's response to global pandemics and other biological challenges and consolidated it into a separate department under the leadership of then-National Security Advisor John Bolton.

Indeed, another official who worked in both administrations told Politico that the playbook "just sat as a document that people worked on that was thrown onto a shelf" and wasn't even sure that "senior leaders at agencies were even aware that this existed."

In 2019, the Trump administration also held a series of training simulations on a hypothetical pandemic caused by a virus that predicted, with remarkable accuracy, many of the problems and shortfalls currently plaguing the US' response to the novel coronavirus outbreak.

The New York Times reported that the war-game style training exercise, which was led by the Department of Health and Human Services and included multiple federal agencies, 12 states, and private stakeholders, simulated a scenario where a respiratory virus dubbed "The Crimson Contagion" originated in China and rapidly spread through the US.

The simulation documented some of the exact same scenarios appearing now.

These included a lack of funding and shortages of medical equipment, delays and inconsistencies at the state and local levels over school closures, and systemic problems in manufacturing more medical supplies. It also includes a mandate that most people work from home and practice social distancing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
it looks like these guys were saying that "the playbook" was outdated, that they had done whatever prep, and were working their own "preventative steps", whether there was overlap or what they thought were "updates". it wouldn't surprise me in the least there were omissions and certainly differing emphasis. i am asking honestly what were they, in your view?

[Brooklyn]

"The plan we are executing now is a better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons learned from the playbook and the most recent Ebola epidemic in the [Democratic Republic of the Congo] to COVID-19."


... it looks like these guys were saying that "the playbook" was outdated, that they had done whatever prep, and were working their own "preventative steps", whether there was overlap or what they thought were "updates". it wouldn't surprise me in the least there were omissions and certainly differing emphasis. i am asking honestly what were they, in your view?

The playbook was outdated? Only 2 Americans died from Ebola as the disease was contained immediately and Obama did not allow it to enter our shores. All the statements you quoted above (''better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons'') are nothing more than self serving nonsense from the tRUMP regime. Had they taken the proper steps much (if not all) of the damage could have been mitigated.

Traitor tRUMP is a murderer who is fully responsible for the genocide that killed over 300,000 Americans.

[wgdsr]

"The plan we are executing now is a better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons learned from the playbook and the most recent Ebola epidemic in the [Democratic Republic of the Congo] to COVID-19."


... it looks like these guys were saying that "the playbook" was outdated, that they had done whatever prep, and were working their own "preventative steps", whether there was overlap or what they thought were "updates". it wouldn't surprise me in the least there were omissions and certainly differing emphasis. i am asking honestly what were they, in your view?

The playbook was outdated? Only 2 Americans died from Ebola as the disease was contained immediately and Obama did not allow it to enter our shores. All the statements you quoted above (''better fit, more detailed, and applies the relevant lessons'') are nothing more than self serving nonsense from the tRUMP regime. Had they taken the proper steps much (if not all) of the damage could have been mitigated.

Traitor tRUMP is a murderer who is fully responsible for the genocide that killed over 300,000 Americans.

so you haven't read the playbook and seen what it actually entails. nor whatever else these guys are referencing.
brookie, you also seem to equate (in this convo and many others) many things back to everybody blames the dems, obama/clinton, while bush and trump get a pass at every turn... i do admire your passion.

[Brooklyn]

so you haven't read the playbook and seen what it actually entails. nor whatever else these guys are referencing.
brookie, you also seem to equate (in this convo and many others) many things back to everybody blames the dems, obama/clinton, while bush and trump get a pass at every turn... i do admire your passion.

Jezuz Christus you delusional right wingers are something else. I have posted references about it in the past and looked at some of it. Why a layman who has no actual government authority would want to look at all 69 pages is sheer lunacy. If you troubled yourself to look you would know it is highly detailed and filled with technical jargon. The one thing that stood out is the subject of restricting international travel as a means of mitigating the spread of contagion - a subject that Idiot-In-Chief completely ignored and which would have had a tremendous impact on avoiding all those needless deaths.

Oh by the way, did you trouble yourself to read it?

[wgdsr]

so you haven't read the playbook and seen what it actually entails. nor whatever else these guys are referencing.
brookie, you also seem to equate (in this convo and many others) many things back to everybody blames the dems, obama/clinton, while bush and trump get a pass at every turn... i do admire your passion.

Jezuz Christus you delusional right wingers are something else. I have posted references about it in the past and looked at some of it. Why a layman who has no actual government authority would want to look at all 69 pages is sheer lunacy. If you troubled yourself to look you would know it is highly detailed and filled with technical jargon. The one thing that stood out is the subject of restricting international travel as a means of mitigating the spread of contagion - a subject that Idiot-In-Chief completely ignored and which would have had a tremendous impact on avoiding all those needless deaths.

Oh by the way, did you trouble yourself to read it?

sure. i have before and i ran thru it again. to me it looked like a lot of questions to ask yourself, and solutions were vague. certainly not detailed. for border screening it was again questions not answers, a lot of copy and pasting regardless of threat level, and even a caution that you have to worry about harm to travel and trade at the highest threat levels.
anyway, i didn't see anything in it that all of our various health, dhs and other organizations within our 4 trillion dollar government with thousands to 10s of thousands of trained employees for each wouldn't be doing anyway. but i don't work there nor know what was in the new playbook.
anyway, here's the link for others to peruse:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... aybook.pdf