LaxPower Back-Up Stick

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

AreaLax wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 6:56 pm IL has Penn over PSU

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ate-/63306

Patrick Stevens has PSU over Penn
Hempstead, N.Y.

(1) Notre Dame vs. METRO ATLANTIC/Sacred Heart-AMERICA EAST/Albany
(8) Penn State vs. IVY/Princeton

Towson, Md.

(5) Virginia vs. ATLANTIC 10/Saint Joseph’s
(4) Johns Hopkins vs. CAA/Towson

Hempstead, N.Y.

(3) Syracuse vs. PATRIOT/Lehigh
(6) Denver vs. BIG TEN/Michigan

Towson, Md.

(7) Maryland vs. BIG EAST/Georgetown
(2) Duke vs. ATLANTIC SUN/Utah

Last three included: Denver, Maryland, Penn State
First three on the outside: Penn, Cornell, Yale
Moving in: Michigan
Moving out: Penn
Conference call: ACC (4), Big Ten (4), Big East (2)

I like this bracket for Gtown.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:08 pm

AreaLax wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 6:56 pm IL has Penn over PSU

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ate-/63306

Patrick Stevens has PSU over Penn
Hempstead, N.Y.

(1) Notre Dame vs. METRO ATLANTIC/Sacred Heart-AMERICA EAST/Albany
(8) Penn State vs. IVY/Princeton

Towson, Md.

(5) Virginia vs. ATLANTIC 10/Saint Joseph’s
(4) Johns Hopkins vs. CAA/Towson

Hempstead, N.Y.

(3) Syracuse vs. PATRIOT/Lehigh
(6) Denver vs. BIG TEN/Michigan

Towson, Md.

(7) Maryland vs. BIG EAST/Georgetown
(2) Duke vs. ATLANTIC SUN/Utah

Last three included: Denver, Maryland, Penn State
First three on the outside: Penn, Cornell, Yale
Moving in: Michigan
Moving out: Penn
Conference call: ACC (4), Big Ten (4), Big East (2)

I like this bracket for Gtown.

The unseeded teams are all looking to play Maryland or Denver.

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:07 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

Straight RPI is not one of the criteria the committee looks at, nor is the timing of the games. I feel your pain, but the old-timers on this forum have been though the disappointments enough to know what is going to be considered and what is not. I'm not arguing that the criteria are good or bad, but that's just the facts.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:11 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:07 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

Straight RPI is not one of the criteria the committee looks at, nor is the timing of the games. I feel your pain, but the old-timers on this forum have been though the disappointments enough to know what is going to be considered and what is not. I'm not arguing that the criteria are good or bad, but that's just the facts.

Love to hear the criteria, since RPI has been the best predictor of the committee. I am not fan of RPI, but I have sadly excepted its use. I do have an issue with the 2 losses to Penn, I just don’t see how they jump Cornell over them. That would be really tough to defend

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:11 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:07 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

Straight RPI is not one of the criteria the committee looks at, nor is the timing of the games. I feel your pain, but the old-timers on this forum have been though the disappointments enough to know what is going to be considered and what is not. I'm not arguing that the criteria are good or bad, but that's just the facts.

RPI is most definitely one of the criteria.

Would be surprised if PSU loses out to Penn given how they did against Maryland (even if UMD is struggling).

From Patrick Stevens' USA Lax Mag projection article; just a little oddity:

If the eight seeded teams in the final projection are correct — in whatever order — it means all of the at-large selections will play at home and every automatic qualifier will be unseeded. Just an unusual quirk.

BigTurn wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:14 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:11 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:07 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

Straight RPI is not one of the criteria the committee looks at, nor is the timing of the games. I feel your pain, but the old-timers on this forum have been though the disappointments enough to know what is going to be considered and what is not. I'm not arguing that the criteria are good or bad, but that's just the facts.

RPI is most definitely one of the criteria.

RPI is used to bracket the teams into categories: top 5, top 10, top 20. The RPI of the team itself is not considered to determine the field. It can be used for seeding.

veryoldgoose wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:57 pm

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:55 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Cornell may want to stay near their tv tonight. I am starting to buy my own argument here. Could they actually be in?

I'm sold on Cornell. Is there an argument for Penn State and Cornell in, Maryland out? I'm not even a Maryland hater, I just think they would be the least deserving of the teams in the field based on play, attitude on the field, and the eye test. Obviously not officialy criteria ha!

Once again VOG, you and I are on the same page here.

I lump Maryland in with UVA, Duke, and Penn State after this weekend. Do these guys even have a pulse? Do they want to be here? Someone needs to put the paddles to them before round 1 or it will be a quick exit. Over the past week, they’ve reminded me of “everyone else” when Tiger would start running up the leaderboard in his prime. They’ve just wilted while Tiger (Notre Dame) just throttles the field.

Look, much respect to Terry Foy in general, but this looks like some serious hopium:

"When it comes to this year’s bubble, I think that’s the challenge. Princeton is No. 8, Penn State is No. 9 in RPI. Penn State’s résumé is better than Princeton’s — they have an equal number of quality wins and bad losses, but Penn State has a Top 10 win, while all of Princeton’s wins are between 11-20. But compare the Nittany Lions’ résumé to Penn’s — they’re very close, but the Quakers have a Top 5 win to trump Penn State’s best win."

PSU's RPI is 2 spots higher than Penn's, and Penn lost 2 times to the with an RPI one spot higher than Penn State's. Yes, it's a straight RPI selection method, but how they committee uses RPI to bucket teams is a big factor. It'd be one thing if Penn didn't have a bad loss and Penn State did. I don't know.

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:23 pm Couldn’t you make the argument Cornell has a better resume than Penn, Penn State, and Princeton?

Cornell has a higher SOS than the other three. Has a top five win against the likely tournament 2 seed (Syracuse), the other three have no top 5 wins. They have a 6-10 win against Princeton head to head. The other three have one 6-10 win; Penn State over Maryland, which isn’t as quality as the Syracuse win for Cornell. Cornell also has no “non top 20 losses”. The other three each have one (Princeton to Brown, Penn State to Colgate, and Penn to Carolina).

If you group them together to come up with the final at large bid, how does Cornell not get in?

Don’t roast me, asking honestly here. What am I missing?

Princeton maybe, but the other 2 no, Cornell lost to Penn twice and got blown out by Penn State. Hard to put them ahead of Cornell though I think Cornell should be in. Tourney needs 2 more at large spots.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:11 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:07 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

Straight RPI is not one of the criteria the committee looks at, nor is the timing of the games. I feel your pain, but the old-timers on this forum have been though the disappointments enough to know what is going to be considered and what is not. I'm not arguing that the criteria are good or bad, but that's just the facts.

theyre not SUPPOSED to look at straight rpi as primary.. but they absolutely do. and have said as much, multiple times.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:18 pm

BigTurn wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:14 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:11 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:07 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Committee usually kneels at the alter of RPI and they are behind both. It one thing to overlook the PSU game. It’s 1 game months ago. It’s quite another to overlook 2 losses to Penn, basically in the last month. On field results have to matter

Straight RPI is not one of the criteria the committee looks at, nor is the timing of the games. I feel your pain, but the old-timers on this forum have been though the disappointments enough to know what is going to be considered and what is not. I'm not arguing that the criteria are good or bad, but that's just the facts.

RPI is most definitely one of the criteria.

RPI is used to bracket the teams into categories: top 5, top 10, top 20. The RPI of the team itself is not considered to determine the field. It can be used for seeding.

So you are saying RPI is used to determine the rankings of teams and SOS, but not used to determine the actual ranking of a team. There is a huge flaw in that logic

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 8:28 pm

veryoldgoose wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:57 pm

LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:55 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:51 pm

coda wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:49 pm

NYlax222 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 7:34 pm Very fair question re: Cornell. Obviously, H2H not flattering vs. PSU or Penn. and then Princeton grabs AQ. Based on 'eye test' and comparing schedules, I'd be more concerned about playing Cornell than Princeton or Penn in the tourney. Saw them play ND, and super impressed.

That is Cornell’s issue. The 2 losses to Penn make it near impossible to put Cornell in over Penn

Head to head only comes into consideration after the other criteria are analyzed. The committee might decide they don't need to go there. Margin of loss is not considered.

Cornell may want to stay near their tv tonight. I am starting to buy my own argument here. Could they actually be in?

I'm sold on Cornell. Is there an argument for Penn State and Cornell in, Maryland out? I'm not even a Maryland hater, I just think they would be the least deserving of the teams in the field based on play, attitude on the field, and the eye test. Obviously not officialy criteria ha!

Once again VOG, you and I are on the same page here.

I lump Maryland in with UVA, Duke, and Penn State after this weekend. Do these guys even have a pulse? Do they want to be here? Someone needs to put the paddles to them before round 1 or it will be a quick exit. Over the past week, they’ve reminded me of “everyone else” when Tiger would start running up the leaderboard in his prime. They’ve just wilted while Tiger (Notre Dame) just throttles the field.

We wholeheartedly agree. I rather the bids go to teams that at least are willing to fight, regardless of the likely outcome. Watching MD, UVA, Duke, and Penn State just lie down this weekend has been embarassing as a more neutral viewer for D1.

Penn State picked over UPenn.

10stone5 wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2024 9:41 pmseeds.jpg

Denver seems a little high but everything else seems about right. Could argue Cuse and Hopkins should be flipped but there's an argument each way.

Wow!! A complete snub of Sacred Heart in terms of the play in game.... Not surprised ESPN... do better..

Duke has the easiest path to the finals. Denver is extremely weak. I don't think they make it past Michigan.

Syracuse vs Towson will be interesting. Won't be surprised at an upset at all.

Hopkins got extremely lucky with Lehigh.