North Carolina 2023

[MDlaxfan76]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

[Finster]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

It’s amazing, frankly, how consistently obtuse your lacrosse posts are. I’m not a Carolina alum, but I went to CH to see them play against UVA little more than a week ago…am I allowed to have an opinion about the team and it’s collective efforts, which I saw with my own eyes, or do we need to first appeal to your arrogant good graces? Unreal.

Here’s a tip: instead of always commenting on other posters’ motivations, how about adding a reply or original idea? I don’t give a gd what Carolina does in the end, keeps or fires Joe; he’s a good dude but good dudes get fired just like bad dudes. People comment about Carolina because they have thoughts, which I read and am genuinely interested in. Trust me when I say no one here needs your patronizing commentary.

[jrn19]

They’ll either keep him or they won’t, it’s a binary decision. And they have 15 years worth of results that diverge greatly about halfway through to work with to decide if they should or should not. But you could just as easily say you would be greatly surprised to see UNC in the Top 10 in 2 years as you’d say you be surprised if they weren’t.

They weren’t a Top 10 team in 2017. Or 2018. Or 2019. They were in 2021. They weren’t in 2022. They aren’t in 2023. So we have 1 year of the last full 6 where they’re a Top 10 team. The track record of late suggests that they’re not going to be a Top 10 again soon because they aren’t a Top 10 program, they’re a Top 20 one. And the one Final Four run in that time came when he got Chris Gray to transfer in. Maybe there’s another guy out there like that waiting to come in, but if not, the results are what they are.

Now, if these results are good enough for UNC to give him another contract extension then fair enough. We’ll find out in another month one way or another.

[Lewisfrederick]

UNC isn’t some mediocre program either. 5 National Championships and 14 Final Fours, plus it’s not like Breschi struggles to get top recruits to Chapel Hill. It’s simply we don’t develop players and get out coached most games. I know some people will laugh at me for saying this, but if we go out and make the right hire, we could be in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA year after year.

You mean the same Duke team that didn't even make the tournament last year despite having a once-a-generation player along with another #1 recruit along with numerous other all-americans?

UNC is in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA. They are an elite program. Those teams ain't perfect either though. UVA's '21 team got blown out by Syracuse 20-10 and lost again to the Orange, then could have lost to Bryant in the opening round. Their 2019 championship run could/should have ended in the elite 8 against Maryland, then again the following week down 2 with 47 seconds to go. On the flip side, Maryland blew a 5 goal 4th quarter lead to UVA in 2019 and were saved by amazing goalie play in '22 to not blow a 9-2 lead against Cornell (not scoring a goal for the last 27 minutes). And this year, Maryland has lived up to it's Be the Best standards probably once all season, against UVA; otherwise they have struggled big-time against Loyola, Michigan, Ohio State and Syracuse (which was not as good as they are now).

This is really not meant to be a knock on Duke, UVA or MD. The point is that winning in D1 lacrosse ain't so easy these days. And all these top teams have to play each other to keep their tournament profiles up, so somebody's gotta lose. UVA's lost 2 of the last 3. If they played Duke again in the tournament, I'd still take the Hoos. This year, what's the difference between Duke, UVA, MD, ND, Georgetown, Cornell, Hopkins, Rutgers, Denver and even Michigan? Probably Brennan O'Neill and UVA's depth at attack are the main differentiators, but they will have to beat at least 1 of the remaining group to even get to the Final 4.

Historically we are in the same category as those 3, and our brand is.
However, on field results we simply haven’t been the last 5 seasons. The point of my post is that I truly believe we can get back to that, but I have little confidence we will do it with Breschi.
As of right now, we will likely miss our fourth NCAA tournament in the last 5 seasons.
Look at how Maryland and UVA were able to re-energize their programs with their most recent hires.
I hate those 3 schools! But I am not blind… currently our program is a couple notches below them. Just look at their records and performance compared to ours the last 5-6 years.
Since 2017 we are 9-19 in conference play and 0-3 against Maryland, 2-6 against Duke and 2-7 against Virginia. What makes this worse is that in the last 2 years we’ve lost to Duke by an average of 8 goals and UVA by an average of 7.
I understand when great teams play each other, someone has to lose… but why does it always have to be us?

[Lewisfrederick]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

I’m a UNC alumni. Why would a troll want Breschi gone?

[Farfromgeneva]

1997 Dave Klarmann 6–7 0–3 4th
1998 Dave Klarmann 7–8 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
1999 Dave Klarmann 6–9 1–2 T–3rd
2000 Dave Klarmann 8–6 0–3 4th
Dave Klarmann: 100–52 (.658) 14–16 (.467)
John Haus (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2001–2008)
2001 John Haus 6–6 1–2 T–3rd
2002 John Haus 8–5 1–2 T–2nd
2003 John Haus 7–6 2–1 T–1st
2004 John Haus 10–5 2–1 2nd NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2005 John Haus 5–8 0–3 4th
2006 John Haus 4–10 0–3 3rd
2007 John Haus 10–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2008 John Haus 8–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
John Haus: 58–52 (.527) 6–18 (.250)

History is older than one thinks if we’re talking about pre Breschi.

[Farfromgeneva]

Before Breschi, last time UNC was meaningfully relevant Hobart was still running D3.

Joe Breschi (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2009–Present)
2009 Joe Breschi 12–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2010 Joe Breschi 13–3 2–1 T–1st NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2011 Joe Breschi 10–6 1–2 T–2nd NCAA Division I First Round
2012 Joe Breschi 11–6 1–2 T–3rd NCAA Division I First Round
2013 Joe Breschi 13–4 2–1 T–1st NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2014 Joe Breschi 10–5 2–3 T–3rd NCAA Division I First Round
2015 Joe Breschi 13–4 3–1 2nd NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2016 Joe Breschi 12–6 3–1 T–1st NCAA Division I Champion
2017 Joe Breschi 8–8 1–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
2018 Joe Breschi 7–7 1–3 T–3rd
2019 Joe Breschi 8–7 1–3 5th
2020 Joe Breschi 7–0 0–0 † †
2021 Joe Breschi 13–3 4–2 T–1st NCAA Division I Final Four
2022 Joe Breschi 8–6 1–5 T–4th
2023 Joe Breschi 4–2 1–0
Joe Breschi: 149–75 (.665) 22–30 (.434)

[jrn19]

Breschi from 2017 onwards looks a helluva lot like Haus and Klarmann. So the question, with his contract up, is whether you trust him to once again elevate you out of that Haus/Klarmann territory like he did in 09 or think you'd be better off handing the reins to someone else to do it. The decision Hopkins and Virginia and Syracuse made was that they trusted someone else to do it. But lacrosse is higher on the totem pole there than it is at Carolina I suspect.

[DocBarrister]

They’ll either keep him or they won’t, it’s a binary decision. And they have 15 years worth of results that diverge greatly about halfway through to work with to decide if they should or should not. But you could just as easily say you would be greatly surprised to see UNC in the Top 10 in 2 years as you’d say you be surprised if they weren’t.

They weren’t a Top 10 team in 2017. Or 2018. Or 2019. They were in 2021. They weren’t in 2022. They aren’t in 2023. So we have 1 year of the last full 6 where they’re a Top 10 team. The track record of late suggests that they’re not going to be a Top 10 again soon because they aren’t a Top 10 program, they’re a Top 20 one. And the one Final Four run in that time came when he got Chris Gray to transfer in. Maybe there’s another guy out there like that waiting to come in, but if not, the results are what they are.

Now, if these results are good enough for UNC to give him another contract extension then fair enough. We’ll find out in another month one way or another.

Based solely on results, North Carolina was a top 5 team in both 2020 and 2021. And it does matter that Breschi “got Chris Gray to transfer in.” He beat out a lot of head coaches for that one.

Maybe 2022 and 2023 were disappointing, but I know certain programs that have had worse performances in the 2020s.

DocBarrister

[Lewisfrederick]

1997 Dave Klarmann 6–7 0–3 4th
1998 Dave Klarmann 7–8 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
1999 Dave Klarmann 6–9 1–2 T–3rd
2000 Dave Klarmann 8–6 0–3 4th
Dave Klarmann: 100–52 (.658) 14–16 (.467)
John Haus (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2001–2008)
2001 John Haus 6–6 1–2 T–3rd
2002 John Haus 8–5 1–2 T–2nd
2003 John Haus 7–6 2–1 T–1st
2004 John Haus 10–5 2–1 2nd NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2005 John Haus 5–8 0–3 4th
2006 John Haus 4–10 0–3 3rd
2007 John Haus 10–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2008 John Haus 8–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
John Haus: 58–52 (.527) 6–18 (.250)

History is older than one thinks if we’re talking about pre Breschi.

UNC had a bad 10 year stretch from 1997-2006.

Outside of that 10 year stretch, UNC made the tournament every year from 1980-1996 and 19 times in 21 years if you go back to 1976. Than from 2007-2017 made it 11 straight years.

However, in my opinion, Breschi’s last 5 years were worse than Haus’s last 5. And Klarmann, while riding off of Scroggs’ coattails, did bring UNC to 5 QF appearances and 3 FF’s in his first 6 years which is a while after Scroggs stepped away. I don’t agree with the narrative that this is the best UNC can be, because I think you are cherry-picking the 10 worst years for UNC.

What Carolina needs to do is hire the best coach available, not just another alumni. While keeping it in the family works sometimes, I feel like for the lacrosse program it has hurt us. We need a breath of fresh air and something new.

[FMUBart]

Bottom line is UNC SHOULD be top 5 - 10 every year, but they’re not. Location, facilities, weather, support &’quality of education are all Top 5. For whatever reason they seem to lack consistency. Save 2016, they haven’t really challenged since Willie Scruggs run in 1980-82. As a Hobart alum & former player, I can sympathize.

[gymman1031]

Breschi's job shouldn't be in jeopardy yet. But, with the talent he has, two-consecutive years sans a postseason appearance would be underachieving. The question is, should they not make it, how much longer can 2016(and their 2021 Final Four appearance) be a "band-aid on the wound"?

[Farfromgeneva]

1997 Dave Klarmann 6–7 0–3 4th
1998 Dave Klarmann 7–8 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
1999 Dave Klarmann 6–9 1–2 T–3rd
2000 Dave Klarmann 8–6 0–3 4th
Dave Klarmann: 100–52 (.658) 14–16 (.467)
John Haus (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2001–2008)
2001 John Haus 6–6 1–2 T–3rd
2002 John Haus 8–5 1–2 T–2nd
2003 John Haus 7–6 2–1 T–1st
2004 John Haus 10–5 2–1 2nd NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2005 John Haus 5–8 0–3 4th
2006 John Haus 4–10 0–3 3rd
2007 John Haus 10–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2008 John Haus 8–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
John Haus: 58–52 (.527) 6–18 (.250)

History is older than one thinks if we’re talking about pre Breschi.

UNC had a bad 10 year stretch from 1997-2006.

Outside of that 10 year stretch, UNC made the tournament every year from 1980-1996 and 19 times in 21 years if you go back to 1976. Than from 2007-2017 made it 11 straight years.

However, in my opinion, Breschi’s last 5 years were worse than Haus’s last 5. And Klarmann, while riding off of Scroggs’ coattails, did bring UNC to 5 QF appearances and 3 FF’s in his first 6 years which is a while after Scroggs stepped away. I don’t agree with the narrative that this is the best UNC can be, because I think you are cherry-picking the 10 worst years for UNC.

What Carolina needs to do is hire the best coach available, not just another alumni. While keeping it in the family works sometimes, I feel like for the lacrosse program it has hurt us. We need a breath of fresh air and something new.

I wasn’t cherry picking the Haus years were super mediocre across the board and quarters were easier to make first half of 2000s. Threw in the last 3rd or so of Klarmans tenure in order to make the point that it’s been > 25yrs since the consistent quarters were what UNC is as a program. It’s just reality. Those titles and final fours were a long time ago.

[Lewisfrederick]

1997 Dave Klarmann 6–7 0–3 4th
1998 Dave Klarmann 7–8 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
1999 Dave Klarmann 6–9 1–2 T–3rd
2000 Dave Klarmann 8–6 0–3 4th
Dave Klarmann: 100–52 (.658) 14–16 (.467)
John Haus (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2001–2008)
2001 John Haus 6–6 1–2 T–3rd
2002 John Haus 8–5 1–2 T–2nd
2003 John Haus 7–6 2–1 T–1st
2004 John Haus 10–5 2–1 2nd NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2005 John Haus 5–8 0–3 4th
2006 John Haus 4–10 0–3 3rd
2007 John Haus 10–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I Quarterfinals
2008 John Haus 8–6 0–3 4th NCAA Division I First Round
John Haus: 58–52 (.527) 6–18 (.250)

History is older than one thinks if we’re talking about pre Breschi.

UNC had a bad 10 year stretch from 1997-2006.

Outside of that 10 year stretch, UNC made the tournament every year from 1980-1996 and 19 times in 21 years if you go back to 1976. Than from 2007-2017 made it 11 straight years.

However, in my opinion, Breschi’s last 5 years were worse than Haus’s last 5. And Klarmann, while riding off of Scroggs’ coattails, did bring UNC to 5 QF appearances and 3 FF’s in his first 6 years which is a while after Scroggs stepped away. I don’t agree with the narrative that this is the best UNC can be, because I think you are cherry-picking the 10 worst years for UNC.

What Carolina needs to do is hire the best coach available, not just another alumni. While keeping it in the family works sometimes, I feel like for the lacrosse program it has hurt us. We need a breath of fresh air and something new.

I wasn’t cherry picking the Haus years were super mediocre across the board and quarters were easier to make first half of 2000s. Threw in the last 3rd or so of Klarmans tenure in order to make the point that it’s been > 25yrs since the consistent quarters were what UNC is as a program. It’s just reality. Those titles and final fours were a long time ago.

6 in 10 years from 2007-2016… maybe that doesn’t qualify for consistent enough, but we have also had the talent to consistently qualify for quarterfinals since than. The only issue at UNC seems to be the coaching… not the talent.

[MDlaxfan76]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

I’m a UNC alumni. Why would a troll want Breschi gone?

I don't know, other than their posts, why some Hopkins alums wanted Petro gone and some wanted him to stay, no matter what the results. Same for Starsia.

I only have my own opinions.

But I think people who are not fans of a particular program should be viewed with more suspicion than those who have no such allegiance.

Controversy tends to advantage everyone else but the program being discussed, so my view is beware the trolls.

Of course, that's just my opinion, from my own cheap seats,, not some commandment from on high as the troll finster wants to suggest.

[joewillie78]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

I’m a UNC alumni. Why would a troll want Breschi gone?

I don't know, other than their posts, why some Hopkins alums wanted Petro gone and some wanted him to stay, no matter what the results. Same for Starsia.

I only have my own opinions.

But I think people who are not fans of a particular program should be viewed with more suspicion than those who have no such allegiance.

Controversy tends to advantage everyone else but the program being discussed, so my view is beware the trolls.

Of course, that's just my opinion, from my own cheap seats,, not some commandment from on high as the troll finster wants to suggest.

I don't know why anyone would take exception with your posts. Your posts are always so informative and the least bit judgemental. I for one always look forward to reading your posts and learning just a little bit more about this great sport. Keep up the great work.
Gobigred
Joewillie78

[MDlaxfan76]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

It’s amazing, frankly, how consistently obtuse your lacrosse posts are. I’m not a Carolina alum, but I went to CH to see them play against UVA little more than a week ago…am I allowed to have an opinion about the team and it’s collective efforts, which I saw with my own eyes, or do we need to first appeal to your arrogant good graces? Unreal.

Here’s a tip: instead of always commenting on other posters’ motivations, how about adding a reply or original idea? I don’t give a gd what Carolina does in the end, keeps or fires Joe; he’s a good dude but good dudes get fired just like bad dudes. People comment about Carolina because they have thoughts, which I read and am genuinely interested in. Trust me when I say no one here needs your patronizing commentary.

Am I "annoyingly insensitive" or just calling a spade a spade?..though, thank you for calling yourself out as not a UNC fan. I did not. Are you also owning that you're a "troll" here and elsewhere?

One thing I can assure you is that your aggression at me personally sure isn't going to stop my "commentary". Tough guy talk is gonna be ineffective with me.

As to your point that "good dudes get fired just like bad dudes", I think that's actually much less true than you may think..."bad dudes" are much easier to fire. Heck, even "bad dudes" can be tough to fire, even if the W's aren't what they used to be...but it's a lot easier than when a coach is well liked and the team isn't getting into trouble a lot off field.

I quite agree that performance, W's and L's matter. Especially, though, in big money sports...but if a non-money team is doing well in school, isn't causing an AD headaches with off-field antics, and the players and recent alumni think he's a "good dude", then usually that results in more years of opportunity than if the guy has gotten into arguments with the AD, hires assistants who are rubbing people the wrong way, etc...

Let me be clear, I'm neither a loyal UNC fan nor friend of Joe Breschi, I nearly always am rooting for teams playing UNC, not the other way around, so my predictions that UNC will remain relevant in top 10 conversations, and have periodic runs at final fours, etc aren't biased in their favor.

I do, however, know some of their alums, both older and more recent, including coached one of the 2016 captains, a friend of my son, as well as others on that team he'd played with and against, and my impression remains positive about the general culture of the program, the general quality of player they attract, and the high level of lax they play...do they win all their games? Nope. But they play darn good lax.

That's my "commentary".
"Arrogant" I guess.

[lilax]

For a long time I have felt that UNC usually recruits one of the best classes year after year, but those pieces have rarely fit together. They bring in high profile guys, but they never seem to never have the right combination or balance of dodgers and finshers on offense, and on ball and off ball players on defense.

[Finster]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

I’m a UNC alumni. Why would a troll want Breschi gone?

I don't know, other than their posts, why some Hopkins alums wanted Petro gone and some wanted him to stay, no matter what the results. Same for Starsia.

I only have my own opinions.

But I think people who are not fans of a particular program should be viewed with more suspicion than those who have no such allegiance.

Controversy tends to advantage everyone else but the program being discussed, so my view is beware the trolls.

Of course, that's just my opinion, from my own cheap seats,, not some commandment from on high as the troll finster wants to suggest.

Can you take your patronizing down a notch or five? You’re like that meme where your BS gets called out and you retreat into the bushes hoping no one notices. Unlike what Joe Willie said, yiur lacrosse posts aren’t informative but they are highly judgmental.

You parachuted onto the UNC thread (did you attend, MDLAX? If not, shouldn’t you have shut up, according to your rules?). You told others that unless the poster attended Carolina, they were “trolls”, whatever tf that means.

I went to Syracuse. I played against teams, schools, and coaches that I have opinions about. I don’t think I’ve ever read a post here at Fanlax and wondered what college the poster attended. But for some reason, you do. It’s a pedantic insecure desire to control dialogue.

If you’re not down with discussion, why don’t you stick to your politics thread and leave us alone? Seems fair.

[MDlaxfan76]

How many of the "move on from Breschi" posters are UNC alums, versus trolls?

Personally, I'd be surprised if Breschi isn't renewed.

I'd also be surprised if UNC isn't top 10 within the next two years again.

I’m a UNC alumni. Why would a troll want Breschi gone?

I don't know, other than their posts, why some Hopkins alums wanted Petro gone and some wanted him to stay, no matter what the results. Same for Starsia.

I only have my own opinions.

But I think people who are not fans of a particular program should be viewed with more suspicion than those who have no such allegiance.

Controversy tends to advantage everyone else but the program being discussed, so my view is beware the trolls.

Of course, that's just my opinion, from my own cheap seats,, not some commandment from on high as the troll finster wants to suggest.

I don't know why anyone would take exception with your posts. Your posts are always so informative and the least bit judgemental. I for one always look forward to reading your posts and learning just a little bit more about this great sport. Keep up the great work.
Gobigred
Joewillie78

It's a great sport that we love, a ton of history, and so much more excitement to come!

I appreciate your deep passion for your school, Joe, have a ton of respect for that program (though I was cheering for Harvard a week ago with my son ).

For that matter, I really appreciate the passion fans of their schools have, whether that's in support of a particular coaching regime or not, they care. A couple of the posters on here who are expressing dissatisfaction with current results are undoubtedly simply wanting more success...but I'm not so sure that's true of some others who have a pattern of dumping on whatever school's thread they find themselves in. I have less patience with those who just want to stir up controversy.

That said, finster ain't the first person to call me "arrogant" or "patronizing" or condescending or...some guys get hot when someone stands up to them and calls them out. Comes with the turf.