Science & Engineering

[dislaxxic]

But remember, ice cream doesn't HAVE bones...

..

[runrussellrun]

Not clear at all what you are stating . What theory needs challenging?

But, I'll try a kayak take away check and discuss the article and premise that the spike in Autism, based on tinfoil hat (according to you, I am guessing ) theories that vaccines cause that spike. Hence the drop in today's young being vaccinated.

What research and replicable info is there on the increase in autism? What IS the true cause?

Didn't realize the HPV or MMR vaccine was around when Gen. Cornwallis was losing to a bunch of idiot farmers. Centuries of empirical evidence? So a CDC researcher, now whistle blower, is considered what. We believe the science when a CDC employee. Or Merck. Or Eli Lilly. But then we don't ? huh.

If some ex model wants to posit that vaccines cause autism and challenge the fact that vaccines are pretty darn safe (certainly much safer than contracting measles, which has fatality rates as high as 30%) and that they don't cause autism, she needs to provide reliable, replicable evidence. Such evidence does not exist.

My main point is that there is a severe problem of anti-intellectualism and anti-science being paraded around, mostly by one hue of the political spectrum. The BS people are spewing isn't just surrounding vaccinations (which have been around for centuries), but surrounding a lot of scientific theories.

If new data and information comes out to support a different hypothesis and people can verify it, we believe that is the best fit until we find something better. It doesn't matter if it's a high school student finding that info or the head of the CDC.

anti-intellectualism begins and ends with statements like: the science is settled Don't you think.

Please answer the question on autism and it's increase? Throw around factors that the DSM didn't even list it until 1980. But, why the increase? Come on, stop being anti-intellectual.

Have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to EX-models. My kids got a few vaccines. But waited until they were 5 or older. Lyme disease vaccine was approved by the FDA in the late 90's. Going from 1.5 million needle pricks to less than 10k today. Has the science changed? FDA approved it, it HAS to be good

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not clear at all what you are stating . What theory needs challenging?

But, I'll try a kayak take away check and discuss the article and premise that the spike in Autism, based on tinfoil hat (according to you, I am guessing ) theories that vaccines cause that spike. Hence the drop in today's young being vaccinated.

What research and replicable info is there on the increase in autism? What IS the true cause?

Didn't realize the HPV or MMR vaccine was around when Gen. Cornwallis was losing to a bunch of idiot farmers. Centuries of empirical evidence? So a CDC researcher, now whistle blower, is considered what. We believe the science when a CDC employee. Or Merck. Or Eli Lilly. But then we don't ? huh.

If some ex model wants to posit that vaccines cause autism and challenge the fact that vaccines are pretty darn safe (certainly much safer than contracting measles, which has fatality rates as high as 30%) and that they don't cause autism, she needs to provide reliable, replicable evidence. Such evidence does not exist.

My main point is that there is a severe problem of anti-intellectualism and anti-science being paraded around, mostly by one hue of the political spectrum. The BS people are spewing isn't just surrounding vaccinations (which have been around for centuries), but surrounding a lot of scientific theories.

If new data and information comes out to support a different hypothesis and people can verify it, we believe that is the best fit until we find something better. It doesn't matter if it's a high school student finding that info or the head of the CDC.

anti-intellectualism begins and ends with statements like: the science is settled Don't you think.

Please answer the question on autism and it's increase? Throw around factors that the DSM didn't even list it until 1980. But, why the increase? Come on, stop being anti-intellectual.

Have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to EX-models. My kids got a few vaccines. But waited until they were 5 or older. Lyme disease vaccine was approved by the FDA in the late 90's. Going from 1.5 million needle pricks to less than 10k today. Has the science changed? FDA approved it, it HAS to be good

If it walks like a .... talks like a .... its a quack.

Is the following true: Fraud at the CDC uncovered, 340% increased risk of autism hidden from public.

Translational Neurodegeneration, which published the article earlier this month, has now removed it and posted the following notice:


This article has been removed from the public domain because of serious concerns about the validity of its conclusions. The journal and publisher believe that its continued availability may not be in the public interest. Definitive editorial action will be pending further investigation.

[holmes435]

anti-intellectualism begins and ends with statements like: the science is settled Don't you think.

Please answer the question on autism and it's increase? Throw around factors that the DSM didn't even list it until 1980. But, why the increase? Come on, stop being anti-intellectual.

Have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to EX-models. My kids got a few vaccines. But waited until they were 5 or older. Lyme disease vaccine was approved by the FDA in the late 90's. Going from 1.5 million needle pricks to less than 10k today. Has the science changed? FDA approved it, it HAS to be good

You can find the research on autism just as easily as I can, feel free to google it. There are no real studies out there showing any evidence that it's caused by vaccines though.

As for the Lyme disease vaccine, the science didn't change, it lost a battle in the court of public opinion even though it was decently effective (about 78%) and safe. People were afraid of an arthritis like reaction to the vaccine even though it was shown to be safe. It was anecdotal evidence spreading around like the vaccine-autism connection that ultimately sunk it. In the end, if enough people don't want your product and bring lawsuits against you (even if you aren't at fault), then it's probably smart to take the product off the market rather than lose money. That's one downside with private drug companies, they are profit-driven so you get things like a decently effective Lyme disease vaccine removed from the market.

I'm sorry that your kids had to wait until 5 to get standard vaccinations that have a long history of success if they had no specific risk factors to those vaccines. You put them and others at unneeded risk.

[runrussellrun]

[quote="Typical Lax Dad"t comes to EX-models. My kids got a few vaccines. But waited until they were 5 or older. Lyme disease vaccine was approved by the FDA in the late 90's. Going from 1.5 million needle pricks to less than 10k today. Has the science changed? FDA approved it, it HAS to be good

list it until 1980. But, why the increase? Come on, stop being anti-intellectual.

Have no idea what you are talking about when i
If it walks like a .... talks like a .... its a quack.

Is the following true: Fraud at the CDC uncovered, 340% increased risk of autism hidden from public.

Translational Neurodegeneration, which published the article earlier this month, has now removed it and posted the following notice:


This article has been removed from the public domain because of serious concerns about the validity of its conclusions. The journal and publisher believe that its continued availability may not be in the public interest. Definitive editorial action will be pending further investigation.[/quote]
[/quote]
Nice try TLD. Dr. Thompson, the ACTUAL CDC employee/whistleblower retract anything? (love the comments about peer review....gee, what other "topic" does this apply too )

Hooker is NOT the whistleblower.

Snopes? really

[runrussellrun]

anti-intellectualism begins and ends with statements like: the science is settled Don't you think.

Please answer the question on autism and it's increase? Throw around factors that the DSM didn't even list it until 1980. But, why the increase? Come on, stop being anti-intellectual.

Have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to EX-models. My kids got a few vaccines. But waited until they were 5 or older. Lyme disease vaccine was approved by the FDA in the late 90's. Going from 1.5 million needle pricks to less than 10k today. Has the science changed? FDA approved it, it HAS to be good

You can find the research on autism just as easily as I can, feel free to google it. There are no real studies out there showing any evidence that it's caused by vaccines though.

As for the Lyme disease vaccine, the science didn't change, it lost a battle in the court of public opinion even though it was decently effective (about 78%) and safe. People were afraid of an arthritis like reaction to the vaccine even though it was shown to be safe. It was anecdotal evidence spreading around like the vaccine-autism connection that ultimately sunk it. In the end, if enough people don't want your product and bring lawsuits against you (even if you aren't at fault), then it's probably smart to take the product off the market rather than lose money. That's one downside with private drug companies, they are profit-driven so you get things like a decently effective Lyme disease vaccine removed from the market.

I'm sorry that your kids had to wait until 5 to get standard vaccinations that have a long history of success if they had no specific risk factors to those vaccines. You put them and others at unneeded risk.

Friends got the anti-diahera vaccine, approved by the FDA, for their first born. Told us we should get one too. Bad reaction...and guess what, child got diahera. No, not mumps, measles, etc, but THIS is the forced junk vaccines forced on us by our doctors. Was sick of the Docs pushing and pushing the HPV vaccine......told him he could use the Block Island house for two weeks whenever he wanted if her would just stop being a drug pusher.

You cool with giving your kids the HPV vaccine? Places you squarely in the Rick Perry camp......ever get that lyme disease vaccine? I know two people that did....and , yup. they have lyme disease.

My tin foil hat is well worn.

[Typical Lax Dad]

[quote="Typical Lax Dad"t comes to EX-models. My kids got a few vaccines. But waited until they were 5 or older. Lyme disease vaccine was approved by the FDA in the late 90's. Going from 1.5 million needle pricks to less than 10k today. Has the science changed? FDA approved it, it HAS to be good

list it until 1980. But, why the increase? Come on, stop being anti-intellectual.

Have no idea what you are talking about when i
If it walks like a .... talks like a .... its a quack.

Is the following true: Fraud at the CDC uncovered, 340% increased risk of autism hidden from public.

Translational Neurodegeneration, which published the article earlier this month, has now removed it and posted the following notice:


This article has been removed from the public domain because of serious concerns about the validity of its conclusions. The journal and publisher believe that its continued availability may not be in the public interest. Definitive editorial action will be pending further investigation.

[/quote]
Nice try TLD. Dr. Thompson, the ACTUAL CDC employee/whistleblower retract anything? (love the comments about peer review....gee, what other "topic" does this apply too )

Hooker is NOT the whistleblower.

Snopes? really [/quote]

Snopes was for the simple minded that frequents this board, eh 'frito....got to cater to your audience. So Thompson supports the idea that CDC was hiding results that showed vaccinations were causing autism? is that your position?

Nobody can tell you what to "believe".

And they still aren’t calling for better services better diagnosis in these underserved groups. Instead they are just trying to recruit as many parents as they into the vaccines-cause-autism camp. Imagine being convinced, wrongly, that you participated in injuring your own child. The charlatans who prey on our community with fake–and sometimes abusive–therapies rely on the vaccine/autism idea for the majority of their business.

The vaccines-cause-autism story is built on lies and it is very damaging. There has been nothing since the Kanner/Bettleheim “refrigerator parent” idea that has caused so much damage to our community. And that is the real story here. A group of people perpetuating a failed idea by carefully crafting a story

I don't have to believe. I rely on in house expertise but like I said, not everyone has it........

[Typical Lax Dad]

Whistleblower Speaks Out

Thompson said he didn't know Hooker was recording their phone conversations and “was not given a choice” about whether his name would be publicized. In a statement issued through his lawyer he confirmed his concerns about the 2004 study findings but stressed that he believes “vaccines have saved and continue to save countless lives.”

“I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race,” he said in the statement.

The CDC confirmed that Thompson continues to be employed by the agency despite what he said were rumors that he was escorted from the building when his identity was exposed.

[HooDat]

it lost a battle in the court of public opinion even though it was decently effective (about 78%) and safe. People were afraid of an arthritis like reaction to the vaccine even though it was shown to be safe. It was anecdotal evidence spreading around like the vaccine-autism connection that ultimately sunk it. In the end, if enough people don't want your product and bring lawsuits against you (even if you aren't at fault), then it's probably smart to take the product off the market rather than lose money

so what did the drug companies learn from that episode?...

make your vaccines mandatory via the public school systems and you avoid the fate of the Lyme Disease vaccine.....

and then the real scientists wonder while people strap in their tinfoil hats bang1

[jhu72]

For those who think they know what FDA approval means, I have a news flash: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FDA APPROVAL OF A DRUG!!!! There is only pre-market approval.

The FDA does not approve of drugs or food. The FDA approves of product marketing and sale. There is a significant distinction. The FDA does not investigate a drug. It does no scientific research on drugs. It's approval for sale, is based solely on paperwork, provided by the manufacturer, that indicates an appropriate process was followed in the development of the drug. They only concern themselves with the process and its documentation. The process and documentation only concern themselves with the questions of "safety and effectiveness". A drug must be safe and effective. This means it must address the condition it is marketed for and it's effectiveness must be such that it out weighs any safety concerns. Outside experts, from NIH. CDC, and other agencies help address this question if asked by the FDA. There is no requirement that a drug be 100% effective or 100% safe. What is required is that the manufacturer be 100% forthcoming with data as to the degree of effectiveness and the degree of safety and on its label, claim no more than this!

The other thing that the FDA does is require that a drug manufacturer must have a repeatable process for manufacturing that drug, and follow it. That process must have the ability to assure quality control during manufacturing. The questions of safety and effectiveness and the manufacturing process must all be in order to achieve "pre-market approval".

It is perfectly possible for a drug to only be 80% effective and have some number of known side effects, wherein the probability of those side effects occurring are medically acceptable when considering their likelihood of occurrence, the significance of the side effect vs the effectiveness of the drug and the significance of the condition it addresses.

In this regard the Lyme Disease vaccine made by SKB under discussion was known to have an on label effectiveness of at least 76% and no side effect which was ever asserted after marketing began. The most serious claim was a class action suit asserting a side effect of causing arthritis. NIH did independent research on this claim and found it to be unfounded. This suit was settled with the plaintiffs receiving nothing, but legal fees from SKB. Much of the claim of ineffectiveness was due to patients not receiving the full 3 shot dose of the vaccine. At least 2 doses were required to achieve any significant degree of effectiveness. To me, it sounds as though much of complaint about this vaccine was one of expectations on the part of the patient.

The sale of the SKB vaccine is still approved for sale by the FDA. The FDA has never taken action against SKB. SKB has withdrawn the product from the market based solely on market forces. There is currently another Lyme Disease vaccine working its way through FDA pre-market approval. It is expected to be released to market in 2019.

[runrussellrun]

The FDA, an agency within the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, protects the public health by assuring the safety, effectiveness, and security of human and veterinary drugs, vaccines and other biological products for human use, and medical devices. The agency also is responsible for the safety and security of our nation’s food supply, cosmetics, dietary supplements, products that give off electronic radiation, and for regulating tobacco products.

https://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparen ... 192695.htm

Whatever YOU say jhu72

The center doesn't actually test drugs itself, although it does conduct limited research in the areas of drug quality, safety, and effectiveness standards.

https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DevelopmentAp ... efault.htm

[jhu72]

Whatever YOU say jhu72.

Been interacting with the FDA for most of my adult life, so yes my description is the reality, Mr. Holiday Inn Express.

[runrussellrun]

Whatever YOU say jhu72.

Been interacting with the FDA for most of my adult life, so yes my description is the reality, Mr. Holiday Inn Express.

Maybe for friggin sharks with friggin lazer beams on their heads.....NOT for drugs. Medical devices aren't the same thing. You ever brought a DRUG to market?

exactly

[Typical Lax Dad]

Whatever YOU say jhu72.

Been interacting with the FDA for most of my adult life, so yes my description is the reality, Mr. Holiday Inn Express.

Maybe for friggin sharks with friggin lazer beams on their heads.....NOT for drugs. Medical devices aren't the same thing. You ever brought a DRUG to market?

exactly

How does the FDA “run tests” for a new orphan drug?

[runrussellrun]

They don't. The FDA have no laboratories to test anything, they only read.

[Typical Lax Dad]

They don't. The FDA have no laboratories to test anything, they only read.

and then rubber stamp it.

[jhu72]

Whatever YOU say jhu72.

Been interacting with the FDA for most of my adult life, so yes my description is the reality, Mr. Holiday Inn Express.

Maybe for friggin sharks with friggin lazer beams on their heads.....NOT for drugs. Medical devices aren't the same thing. You ever brought a DRUG to market?

exactly

THE PROCESS IS IDENTICAL! Medical Device regulation grew out of FDA drug regulation. Up until the turn of the century, you would have the same audit personnel auditing drug manufacturers and medical device manufacturers. The process is the same.

[jhu72]

Whatever YOU say jhu72.

Been interacting with the FDA for most of my adult life, so yes my description is the reality, Mr. Holiday Inn Express.

Maybe for friggin sharks with friggin lazer beams on their heads.....NOT for drugs. Medical devices aren't the same thing. You ever brought a DRUG to market?

exactly

How does the FDA “run tests” for a new orphan drug?

They don't. That's what consultants are for. NIH, CDC, university labs. The FDA has very little technical ability. When a new drug is tested, that is up to the manufacturer. They must submit a plan for testing to meet FDA requirements the FDA must agree to the plan. The manufacturer will generally make arrangements with a top university hospital to run the protocol. It costs the manufacturer money. For somethings the manufacturer can do it themselves, but for drugs the FDA will normally want to see an arrangement with an "unbiased" clinical trial partner. The FDA can track the testing, but they are not doing the testing! They do not specify the test(s), they do not pick the clinical trial partner. The same process is used for a new CT scanner or MRI system, etc.

The FDA is only interested in the results and the process used to obtain those results. Documentation!

They are not Consumer Reports.

[runrussellrun]

BAM......so when the former head of the CDC goes to work at a "private" pharma company..............

Some of the nonsense I was talking about. FDA pulls or recommends, based on the original comment of CDC heads moving to big pharma, CONsultants yeah rah.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... us-vaccine

Does Billy "no libaries named for me" Gates love him some vaccines or what. No one in brown skinned countries EVER dies from his vaccines. Well, NOT his, just his money to support them.

Something about Margret Sanger.....Harvard.....Supreme court.

[Typical Lax Dad]

BAM......so when the former head of the CDC goes to work at a "private" pharma company..............

Some of the nonsense I was talking about. FDA pulls or recommends, based on the original comment of CDC heads moving to big pharma, CONsultants yeah rah.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... us-vaccine

Does Billy "no libaries named for me" Gates love him some vaccines or what. No one in brown skinned countries EVER dies from his vaccines. Well, NOT his, just his money to support them.

Something about Margret Sanger.....Harvard.....Supreme court.

Good ol' Billy Gates is part of a plot to secretly sterilize people on the African continent.