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wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

No Doug Knight? That was UVa's best attack line though. Knight, Watson. and Whiteley

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

4 time 1st team all american seems unprecedented though

coda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:27 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

No Doug Knight? That was UVa's best attack line though. Knight, Watson. and Whiteley

kamikaze doug was fun to watch, those 3 with years together were. he's definitely in the list can get longer.
for me, watson was the best of them.

keno in reno wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:30 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

4 time 1st team all american seems unprecedented though

Watson was 4x All-American

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:53 pm

coda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:27 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

No Doug Knight? That was UVa's best attack line though. Knight, Watson. and Whiteley

kamikaze doug was fun to watch, those 3 with years together were. he's definitely in the list can get longer.
for me, watson was the best of them.

Watson, Knight, and Shelly would be my 3 for Virginia, although no necessarily in that order.

keno in reno wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:30 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

4 time 1st team all american seems unprecedented though

it is and i believe i heard one of only 8? anywhere. definitely had the best freshman year.
me, i would have my own evaluation for guys rather than have some anonymous group's opinion be the final arbiter. some other people may refer to those things, of course. it's all good.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

I considered those names. Names like Jalbert and S. Bratton had more athleticism, Watson and Knight might have been more electric although he could look like them too, Gill and Stanwick had QB ability, but none combined them all as well as Shellenberger.

Shellenberger would be my choice, Watson probably next. I’m surprised no one mentioned Ward. He wouldn’t be in my top three or for, but he did win the T in an under season.

In my time watching (15-20 years), I think Shelly is the best Cav I saw. If there’s a hesitancy to say that, I think it’s because, as stated above, there’s a lot of great players that played there. Plus, he was *so good*, so early that I think folks just got used to it. He was a first team all american type guy from Year 1. Lot of guys get better each year. It allowed his excellence to become “ordinary” rather

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:01 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:53 pm

coda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:27 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

No Doug Knight? That was UVa's best attack line though. Knight, Watson. and Whiteley

kamikaze doug was fun to watch, those 3 with years together were. he's definitely in the list can get longer.
for me, watson was the best of them.

Watson, Knight, and Shelly would be my 3 for Virginia, although no necessarily in that order.

Top 5 attack IMO:

1) Watson
2) Shelly
3) Knight
4) Stanwick
5) Whitely

Laxter wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 9:18 pm

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:01 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:53 pm

coda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:27 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 1:14 pm

Gatsby wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:04 pm Yeah, from what I've seen, I agree that the next Millon looks even better.

I'm surprised that I've seen some hestitancy to call Shellenberger the best UVA player of all time, like they will say he's arguably the best. It seems clear to me, both statistically and from his complete game. I don't know who else was better. Steele Stanwick? Shelly had his IQ plus dodging ability.

jay jalbert, wah, connor gill, conrad. list can get longer. even several guys in the 80s, tho as a team never captured a championship. certainly peeps could debate it, as uva has a long rich history as a bunch of programs do.

No Doug Knight? That was UVa's best attack line though. Knight, Watson. and Whiteley

kamikaze doug was fun to watch, those 3 with years together were. he's definitely in the list can get longer.
for me, watson was the best of them.

Watson, Knight, and Shelly would be my 3 for Virginia, although no necessarily in that order.

Top 5 attack IMO:

1) Watson
2) Shelly
3) Knight
4) Stanwick
5) Whitely

FWIW, Shellenberger and Watson consistently received the #1 at Close D. They opened things up for some others on this list who were guarded by the #2 or even #3 close Defender. Regardless, all were great players but list omits some Teewarton winners like Matt Ward or other terrific attack men like Rubeor and Gill, etc, etc

Who’s got good insight on Hackett? Assuming he’ll be a first line middie next year?

camskidamski wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:00 pm Who’s got good insight on Hackett? Assuming he’ll be a first line middie next year?

was a productive midfielder going 23 & 24 for 47 points at Bryant. He also went 3 & 3 against then 17th ranked Harvard. If Boyden stays another year, he moves to attack and Hackett will fill his spot on 1st midfield. He will likely face short stick defenders at first anyway which will help the transition.

blue angels wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:33 pm

camskidamski wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:00 pm Who’s got good insight on Hackett? Assuming he’ll be a first line middie next year?

was a productive midfielder going 23 & 24 for 47 points at Bryant. He also went 3 & 3 against then 17th ranked Harvard. If Boyden stays another year, he moves to attack and Hackett will fill his spot on 1st midfield. He will likely face short stick defenders at first anyway which will help the transition.

3 guys, 4 with boyden, probably have spots locked up in the top 6 for next year. the rest is conjecture at this point. including whether it'll even be a top 6 as they've rotated another attackman in multiple years, as well as crowded more than just a total of 3 around 1 or 2 guys on the firsts multiple times. this past year, it was mostly delineated with a new coordinator, but that's as small a sample size as you can get.

camskidamski wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 3:00 pm Who’s got good insight on Hackett? Assuming he’ll be a first line middie next year?

47 pts, 24 assists (so good vision), Shot 27%, 31 turnovers, and 11 GBs.. didnt face a tough schedule, so tough to tell.
Turnovers and Shooting percentages definitely give you pause, but the assists are very good sign.

I saw the Harvard game. He was Bryant’s best player in a close game.

Balsamo is a big get for Lars. Coach Tiffany again showing how he can utilize the portal to stay competitive year in and year out. Think he might need to swing a few more names though but we will wait and see…

Balsamo was excellent as a freshman. I called him Duke’s best midfielder on this forum and was castigated who pointed out that he wasn’t drawing the pole. This year he fell to the second midfield but still played EMO. I belieuhe was attackman in hs. If he replaces Cormier at the lefty attack spot, a unit that features him along with Millon and Boyden would bring speed and quickness to the ride. If they have someone else to nail down the lefty slot, then the midfield might go from a question mark to a strength.

Bill Hooper '51, 2nd team AA as sophomore (freshman didn't play), 1st Team as junior and senior. '49-51. Hall of Fame.

Gordon Jones '52 Turnbull winner and captain of 1952 Championship team.

Might consider Jay Connors on your list.

Lot of great attack men over the years!

Bill Hooper died recently. I referred to it on thesabre, where most of the posters seem to be to young to remember his generation.
Little known fact is that Jay Connor is Fred Smith’s nephew. Think Hopkins could have used him?