laxdadpat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:32 am
What is PSU doing? Watched Colorado beat them Friday. O'Neil barely touched the ball in a close game, I hope she is healthy. Their ranking is probably due to the talent on the team, not the poor coaching. That is a prime job if I'm a coach on the rise to make a great program.
Missy needs to go. Chases off every assistant she has in a year or two and it’s not like they are leaving for better programs. Another new offensive coordinator in this year that’s not allowed to implement the offense she wants to do. Van Thof will be gone on a year. Like everyone else.
agree about PSU and the coaching - with those facilities and backing, there is NO reason why they shouldn't be in the top 10 every year except coaching and recruiting has been subpar, which is kind.
Also, won't be a good year for the Patriot league, every team is worse than than last year, even Loyola - but for them, only slightly.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 8:31 pm
by Relax77
Also, won't be a good year for the Patriot league, every team is worse than than last year, even Loyola - but for them, only slightly.
I think Navy is better. Loyola dipped and Army fell off a lot.
laxdadpat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:32 am
What is PSU doing? Watched Colorado beat them Friday. O'Neil barely touched the ball in a close game, I hope she is healthy. Their ranking is probably due to the talent on the team, not the poor coaching. That is a prime job if I'm a coach on the rise to make a great program.
Missy needs to go. Chases off every assistant she has in a year or two and it’s not like they are leaving for better programs. Another new offensive coordinator in this year that’s not allowed to implement the offense she wants to do. Van Thof will be gone on a year. Like everyone else.
agree about PSU and the coaching - with those facilities and backing, there is NO reason why they shouldn't be in the top 10 every year except coaching and recruiting has been subpar, which is kind.
Also, won't be a good year for the Patriot league, every team is worse than than last year, even Loyola - but for them, only slightly.
Completely forgot about PSU. Although i'd say they started really declining post Olivia Dirks. They were the mini Stanford version of the east coast but their recruiting wins were more short lived. I agree that they really have no excuse not to be a competing program. Look what StonyBrook has been able to do just with long island talent that was passed over by the bigger programs. Pennsylvania is a huge talent hotbed with a bunch of really good programs like Penn Charter, Agnis Irwin, Archbishop Carroll, etc. PSU should be a peer to Stonybrook minimum.
laxdadpat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:32 am
What is PSU doing? Watched Colorado beat them Friday. O'Neil barely touched the ball in a close game, I hope she is healthy. Their ranking is probably due to the talent on the team, not the poor coaching. That is a prime job if I'm a coach on the rise to make a great program.
Missy needs to go. Chases off every assistant she has in a year or two and it’s not like they are leaving for better programs. Another new offensive coordinator in this year that’s not allowed to implement the offense she wants to do. Van Thof will be gone on a year. Like everyone else.
agree about PSU and the coaching - with those facilities and backing, there is NO reason why they shouldn't be in the top 10 every year except coaching and recruiting has been subpar, which is kind.
Also, won't be a good year for the Patriot league, every team is worse than than last year, even Loyola - but for them, only slightly.
Completely forgot about PSU. Although i'd say they started really declining post Olivia Dirks. They were the mini Stanford version of the east coast but their recruiting wins were more short lived. I agree that they really have no excuse not to be a competing program. Look what StonyBrook has been able to do just with long island talent that was passed over by the bigger programs. Pennsylvania is a huge talent hotbed with a bunch of really good programs like Penn Charter, Agnis Irwin, Archbishop Carroll, etc. PSU should be a peer to Stonybrook minimum.
At least Stonybrook wins something. Penn State is a huge has been and I suspect they will end up with a new coach and a new mandate like Ohio State.
I’ve mentioned this before, but I know a recruit that was recruited by both PSU and NU. Kelly asked her where she was looking and the player told her. She asked the recruit do you know the difference between NU and PSU? We play for Championships. Mic drop. Player immediately committed.
Penn State is all out of juice.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 11:38 pm
by Relax77
I’ve mentioned this before, but I know a recruit that was recruited by both PSU and NU. Kelly asked her where she was looking and the player told her. She asked the recruit do you know the difference between NU and PSU? We play for Championships. Mic drop. Player immediately committed.
She used the line on one of my daughter’s teammates in September. Probably uses that line with just about everyone they target that isn’t being looked at by Maryland and UNC. She turned NU down and went to the team that didn’t win any championship. Sometimes the kids want to go to football games that have 100k kids there.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:51 am
by OuttaNowhereWregget
MolonLaxe wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 10:41 pm
I know a recruit that was recruited by both PSU and NU. Kelly asked her where she was looking and the player told her. She asked the recruit do you know the difference between NU and PSU? We play for Championships.
Outstanding!
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:53 am
by spidey44
There are a few examples we and my daughter's teammates experienced this fall that make you say "hmmm." Penn State was one of them.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:33 am
by laxdadpat
I just don't get the PSU women's lacrosse team. The school, the academics, the other athletics and State College is an amazing place to be as a student. It should be a dream location, but I question how the program is run.
I saw someone post this recently, I think most high school girls want their college lacrosse experience to be something like this.
That's the way to get ready for a game after getting blown up by JMU. Every team doesn't win a natty or the ACC, but that is a lesson how you approach life.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:01 am
by MolonLaxe
Relax77--
Makes sense. Football at NU is notoriously awful--they've had a few good runs but the turnout is abysmal, at best. If you're looking for football shenanigans, NU isn't the place to be.
Laxdadpat--
It also baffles me as to why PSU is not good. Hokies putting out good videos will help them on the recruiting trail. The teams that can capture the experience well benefit--Coastal has managed to show what it's like and I think many kids are fine with competing for a conference championship and maybe making a bit at the NCAA's. Enjoying college and having a good overall experience is important to this generation, having suffered through the COVID years.
spidey44--
You need to expand on this one a bit more!
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:20 am
by spidey44
MolonLaxe wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:01 am
spidey44--
laxfan9999 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:31 pm
You would have to include Louisville on the team on the decline list except they haven’t been good for a long time if at all. They don’t have a lot of talent or coaching.
They won the Big East in 2014 and were in the top 20 for like 4 years in a row and top 10 for one of those. Then there was the coaching mess and transfer of a bunch of players around 2017. They also had the basketball scandal and AD stuff at the same time hurting the school name.
But that was 6 seasons ago, time enough to rebuild. Only one winning season since 2018, which was a shortened COVID season were they didn't play most of the ACC games. Just 4 ACC wins since 2018. And they just lost to 2nd year in D1 Lindenwood.
I think they had the first women's lacrosse-only stadium in the country. That seat's gotta be getting hot.
Yes, Kellie Young -- for all her foibles -- built the program from scratch to a #5 ranking. She could identify, recruit, and coach talent. Her dismissal may well have been warranted, but Louisville has way too much to offer to be stuck in this downward spiral under Scott Teeter. The facilities are terrific, the school treats its athletes well and prioritizes them, they play in the ACC, and the city has much to offer outside of school. After famously letting it slip a year or two into his tenure that the program will turn around once "his recruits" come on board, Teeter has utterly failed. Many bad losses, virtually no upset wins, and constant underachievement. The tired refrain about his coaching abilities has proven false. It also is no accident that he is the only male ACC women's lacrosse coach. It is well past time for a change.
Geeesh...no worries about throwing out some discriminatory sex abilities here...Gary Gait and Joe Spallina might have something to say about that!
laxfan9999 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:31 pm
You would have to include Louisville on the team on the decline list except they haven’t been good for a long time if at all. They don’t have a lot of talent or coaching.
They won the Big East in 2014 and were in the top 20 for like 4 years in a row and top 10 for one of those. Then there was the coaching mess and transfer of a bunch of players around 2017. They also had the basketball scandal and AD stuff at the same time hurting the school name.
But that was 6 seasons ago, time enough to rebuild. Only one winning season since 2018, which was a shortened COVID season were they didn't play most of the ACC games. Just 4 ACC wins since 2018. And they just lost to 2nd year in D1 Lindenwood.
I think they had the first women's lacrosse-only stadium in the country. That seat's gotta be getting hot.
Yes, Kellie Young -- for all her foibles -- built the program from scratch to a #5 ranking. She could identify, recruit, and coach talent. Her dismissal may well have been warranted, but Louisville has way too much to offer to be stuck in this downward spiral under Scott Teeter. The facilities are terrific, the school treats its athletes well and prioritizes them, they play in the ACC, and the city has much to offer outside of school. After famously letting it slip a year or two into his tenure that the program will turn around once "his recruits" come on board, Teeter has utterly failed. Many bad losses, virtually no upset wins, and constant underachievement. The tired refrain about his coaching abilities has proven false. It also is no accident that he is the only male ACC women's lacrosse coach. It is well past time for a change.
Geeesh...no worries about throwing out some discriminatory sex abilities here...Gary Gait and Joe Spallina might have something to say about that!
And...3 of the best programs/runs ever have had a male Assistant Coach. (Timchal/Gait, Northwester/Hiller, Levy/Barnes).
laxfan9999 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:31 pm
You would have to include Louisville on the team on the decline list except they haven’t been good for a long time if at all. They don’t have a lot of talent or coaching.
They won the Big East in 2014 and were in the top 20 for like 4 years in a row and top 10 for one of those. Then there was the coaching mess and transfer of a bunch of players around 2017. They also had the basketball scandal and AD stuff at the same time hurting the school name.
But that was 6 seasons ago, time enough to rebuild. Only one winning season since 2018, which was a shortened COVID season were they didn't play most of the ACC games. Just 4 ACC wins since 2018. And they just lost to 2nd year in D1 Lindenwood.
I think they had the first women's lacrosse-only stadium in the country. That seat's gotta be getting hot.
Yes, Kellie Young -- for all her foibles -- built the program from scratch to a #5 ranking. She could identify, recruit, and coach talent. Her dismissal may well have been warranted, but Louisville has way too much to offer to be stuck in this downward spiral under Scott Teeter. The facilities are terrific, the school treats its athletes well and prioritizes them, they play in the ACC, and the city has much to offer outside of school. After famously letting it slip a year or two into his tenure that the program will turn around once "his recruits" come on board, Teeter has utterly failed. Many bad losses, virtually no upset wins, and constant underachievement. The tired refrain about his coaching abilities has proven false. It also is no accident that he is the only male ACC women's lacrosse coach. It is well past time for a change.
Geeesh...no worries about throwing out some discriminatory sex abilities here...Gary Gait and Joe Spallina might have something to say about that!
Read my previous response. This was not a general comment claiming that men can't successfully coach women.
laxdadpat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:32 am
What is PSU doing? Watched Colorado beat them Friday. O'Neil barely touched the ball in a close game, I hope she is healthy. Their ranking is probably due to the talent on the team, not the poor coaching. That is a prime job if I'm a coach on the rise to make a great program.
Missy needs to go. Chases off every assistant she has in a year or two and it’s not like they are leaving for better programs. Another new offensive coordinator in this year that’s not allowed to implement the offense she wants to do. Van Thof will be gone on a year. Like everyone else.
agree about PSU and the coaching - with those facilities and backing, there is NO reason why they shouldn't be in the top 10 every year except coaching and recruiting has been subpar, which is kind.
Also, won't be a good year for the Patriot league, every team is worse than than last year, even Loyola - but for them, only slightly.
So I’ve been watching this post and not commenting, but I feel compelled to shed some light. My daughter was heavily recruited by all of the B1G schools, and when we got to PSU for visit, coach Doherty said to her, “I have no idea who you are but my staff says you’re great.” That sealed it. No way was she committing to PSU when she had many better teams and coaches who did the research wanting to coach her. Lazy recruiting, late to the game on the big name players.
As for Florida, my daughter played there 4 years. It’s a culture problem stemming from the HC. Think high school and middle school drama perpetuated by a class system. If you don’t start, you might as well be invisible to the coaching staff. How many girls who played at UF go back and cheer on the team? Not many.
laxdadpat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:32 am
What is PSU doing? Watched Colorado beat them Friday. O'Neil barely touched the ball in a close game, I hope she is healthy. Their ranking is probably due to the talent on the team, not the poor coaching. That is a prime job if I'm a coach on the rise to make a great program.
Missy needs to go. Chases off every assistant she has in a year or two and it’s not like they are leaving for better programs. Another new offensive coordinator in this year that’s not allowed to implement the offense she wants to do. Van Thof will be gone on a year. Like everyone else.
agree about PSU and the coaching - with those facilities and backing, there is NO reason why they shouldn't be in the top 10 every year except coaching and recruiting has been subpar, which is kind.
Also, won't be a good year for the Patriot league, every team is worse than than last year, even Loyola - but for them, only slightly.
So I’ve been watching this post and not commenting, but I feel compelled to shed some light. My daughter was heavily recruited by all of the B1G schools, and when we got to PSU for visit, coach Doherty said to her, “I have no idea who you are but my staff says you’re great.” That sealed it. No way was she committing to PSU when she had many better teams and coaches who did the research wanting to coach her. Lazy recruiting, late to the game on the big name players.
As for Florida, my daughter played there 4 years. It’s a culture problem stemming from the HC. Think high school and middle school drama perpetuated by a class system. If you don’t start, you might as well be invisible to the coaching staff. How many girls who played at UF go back and cheer on the team? Not many.
I think that’s really common with a lot (not all) of the older coaches. But you hit PSU on the head for us. At a tourney, If my daughter walks by Katrina Geiger, Shanna Brady, or Nicole Grote they all say hello and call her by name. Missy had no clue who she was. Zero. As many have said. Time for a change. No reason that school isn’t top 15 with what they can offer.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:01 pm
by Dr. Tact
EasyRider wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 12:01 pm
Speaking on Georgetown, specifically. There are a few details I'd rather not express publicly, but in short it has long felt to me that they have a scripted and very rigid offense ... "your job is to throw it X on this play, do not deviate" kind of thing. Players go there because it's an incredible school, but to an outsider (me) it doesn't exactly feel like they love playing there.
The game (especially offense) is trending towards flowing, organic sets ... pairs, two/three-woman game ... creativity based on concepts, not set plays. It takes time to build, but once you've laid the groundwork the players love the style and it becomes a challenge to scout / prepare against. Players look forward to practice, instead of dreading it...
This has been discussed for years. The Ricky way doesn't work anymore for College, didn't work for Team USA. If you run a system, it has to adapt to the players, not the other way...That is the big problem at GTown.
Re: Declining Programs
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:49 pm
by Kleizaster
laxdadpat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:33 am
I just don't get the PSU women's lacrosse team. The school, the academics, the other athletics and State College is an amazing place to be as a student. It should be a dream location, but I question how the program is run.
I saw someone post this recently, I think most high school girls want their college lacrosse experience to be something like this.
That's the way to get ready for a game after getting blown up by JMU. Every team doesn't win a natty or the ACC, but that is a lesson how you approach life.
wow..this is good stuff from Virginia Tech. You can tell these girls are happy to be there and love their school. Now that i think about it, VT can be a really good lacrosse school. They are never truly awful. Kind of just stuck in mediocrity mainly due to being in the ACC but i've seen them constantly put in some really good random 5-10 min periods of really good lacrosse play against top teams but can never sustain that level of play. What they lack in talent they make up in spirit.
laxdadpat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:33 am
I just don't get the PSU women's lacrosse team. The school, the academics, the other athletics and State College is an amazing place to be as a student. It should be a dream location, but I question how the program is run.
I saw someone post this recently, I think most high school girls want their college lacrosse experience to be something like this.
That's the way to get ready for a game after getting blown up by JMU. Every team doesn't win a natty or the ACC, but that is a lesson how you approach life.
wow..this is good stuff from Virginia Tech. You can tell these girls are happy to be there and love their school. Now that i think about it, VT can be a really good lacrosse school. They are never truly awful. Kind of just stuck in mediocrity mainly due to being in the ACC but i've seen them constantly put in some really good random 5-10 min periods of really good lacrosse play against top teams but can never sustain that level of play. What they lack in talent they make up in spirit.
they have had some really good players go through Blacksburg, mostly wasted by Sung and his "system"
When Tech Was Fab
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 7:53 pm
by OuttaNowhereWregget
Say what you want about ol' Johnny, but he still has the best single season record (2018) in Tech history (14-7 5-2 vs ACC [regular season]) which included wins over #17 Notre Dame, #18 Syracuse, #17 Virginia and #10 Duke, who they beat again in the ACC tournament. They won a first round game in the ACC conference tournament and a first round NCAA win over Georgetown. It didn't end well for Sung, but he had a solid team in 2018.
(14-7, 5-2 ACC)
Feb. 9 #8 USC L 5-11
Feb. 14 at #8 James Madison L 11-16
Feb. 17 Old Dominion W 20-3
Feb. 21 Campbell W 17-8
Feb. 24 #10 Duke* W 17-14
Feb. 28 George Mason W 9-8 (OT)
Mar. 4 at Colorado L 3-18
Mar. 7 at #16 Denver W 11-5
Mar. 11 #17 Notre Dame* W 9-6
Mar. 18 Delaware W 17-10
Mar. 21 VCU W 22-7
Mar. 24 at Elon W 14-12
Mar. 28 at #5 UNC* L 12-13
Mar. 31 at Louisville* W 15-14
Apr. 7 #18 Syracuse* W 15-14(2OT)
Apr. 14 at #2 Boston College* L 7-9
Apr. 21 at #17 Virginia* W 16-12
Apr. 26 vs Duke^ W 13-12
Apr. 27 vs #5 North Carolina^ L 8-14
May 11 vs Georgetown $ W 13-10
May 13 vs North Carolina $ L 8-17
^denotes conference tournament played in Durham, North Carolina
$denotes NCAA tournament played in Raleigh, North Carolina
In this clip, Virginia Tech finished off Notre Dame for the first time in program history with a 9-6 victory. Marissa Davey scores the Hokies 9th on a beautiful goal.
