Mental Health, Abuse and reporting in Women's Lacrosse

[watcherinthewoods]

Wow. I missed that connection. This makes so much more sense as to why this is being covered up. A headline allegation of FORMER IWCLA PRESIDENT tells one student-athlete she was being "dramatic" and causing a "scene" when the student reported feeling suicidal, and that "no one" wanted her to come back, doesn't merit enough of a story I guess.

My memory is a tad foggy, so maybe someone can fill in the details, but what I do seem to recall the current ED of the IWCLA was removed from her HC position based on similar accusations.

I am not sure we will ever know the truth on any of these specific cases. There are two sides to every story.

[Downhill Dodger]

Wow. I missed that connection. This makes so much more sense as to why this is being covered up. A headline allegation of FORMER IWCLA PRESIDENT tells one student-athlete she was being "dramatic" and causing a "scene" when the student reported feeling suicidal, and that "no one" wanted her to come back, doesn't merit enough of a story I guess.

My memory is a tad foggy, so maybe someone can fill in the details, but what I do seem to recall the current ED of the IWCLA was removed from her HC position based on similar accusations.

I am not sure we will ever know the truth on any of these specific cases. There are two sides to every story.

I would take the under on the Executive Director of the IWCLA weighing in on this:

“Our Board was unanimous in receiving the recommendation of our Search Committee regarding Liz,” said Kathy Taylor, IWLCA President and head coach at Colgate University. “We asked our Committee to bring us the best leader for our Association at this point in time for the sport, and they did exactly that. Everyone knows how much Liz loves the game and how committed she is to supporting and advocating for our coaches. It is an exciting time for the IWLCA to begin another chapter of growth and outreach for women’s lacrosse.”

[njbill]

Been meaning to do this as I remained curious. Just did a test on two threads I originated. I changed the titles. No “last edited” footer popped up.

Other posters can change a post’s title by revising the title when they reply to a post, but that edit does not universally change the thread’s title in all posts in the thread or in the title on the topics page.

So I’m pretty sure my understanding is correct, which is that the thread originator can change the title of a thread by going into the initial post and making the change. That will then change the title in the topics page though not in individual posts. There will be no “last edited” indication anywhere.

[DMac]

It's a mystery then, njb. I just went to the Dogs Thread and changed it from The Dogs Thread Is Back (I originated it at LP and brought it over to FL) to just the Dogs Thread and it shows the edited thing. Check it out (gotta go to page 1 original post).
(Just in case you've never checked that out, it's under General Chatter, gotta scroll down just a bit.)
Speaking of, got this guy coming for Thanksgiving today.
Think he'll like those prime rib bones?

[njbill]

That is indeed strange. I edited the titles to two threads I originated on the girls board. In neither case did “last edited” appear. What I did was go into my original post and change the title. In one case, I changed “HS” to “High School.” In another, I changed “High School” to “HS.” I know, very creative. I did not change any of the text of the posts.

I’m a big fan of the dogs thread. Appreciate all your posts there.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[DMac]

Unsolved Mysteries.
I did the same, went to the original.
Happy Thanksgiving to you (and all) too.

[Dasher]

Wow. I missed that connection. This makes so much more sense as to why this is being covered up. A headline allegation of FORMER IWCLA PRESIDENT tells one student-athlete she was being "dramatic" and causing a "scene" when the student reported feeling suicidal, and that "no one" wanted her to come back, doesn't merit enough of a story I guess.

My memory is a tad foggy, so maybe someone can fill in the details, but what I do seem to recall the current ED of the IWCLA was removed from her HC position based on similar accusations.

I am not sure we will ever know the truth on any of these specific cases. There are two sides to every story.

There ARE two sides to every story. We may never know them until this sees daylight.
Money always signals a degree of guilt whether you like it or not. Eight (that we know of) scholarship athletes who left the program will keep their scholarships through graduation. That's not insignificant at an expensive school.
This isn't the first or last alleged abusive coach, but things are different now.
Parents rounding up lawyers is more and more commonplace.
Athletes can look for excuses if they don't meet (especially their parents) expectations.
Colleges are now hiring outside investigators and frequently assigning hall monitors to teams at the first sign of a problem.

Admitting the culture is corrupt but keeping the Coach and guarantying rides is new.

How did they decide this?
How could they justify the actions if true? Did they prove them false?
What steps can be installed so that this can be prevented in the future?

There is a story here that is important.

[Downhill Dodger]

I assume he/she is referencing Colgate.

https://medium.com/@colgatewlaxwhistleb ... 9bec0d43e5

Yikes

https://www.2adays.com/coaches/kathy-taylor-56049

[Seacoaster(1)]

I assume he/she is referencing Colgate.

https://medium.com/@colgatewlaxwhistleb ... 9bec0d43e5

Yikes

https://www.2adays.com/coaches/kathy-taylor-56049

How many respondents constitute these percentages? I have a good many friends in academia, and these “rate my professors” type websites seem to more readily attract the unhappy folks.

[njbill]

As a Colgate alum, this whole story has really upset me. But, like some others, I have a lot of questions about it, and I don’t think we’ve heard the full story.

Taylor first came to my attention in 2004 when she brought her Fayetteville Manlius team down to Moorestown. I have more or less followed her career since then. I have never heard stuff remotely like this about her. Two good friends who know her well have spoken very highly of her to me, although that has been some years ago.

Long time posters will remember 2pont, probably one of the most respected posters ever on the women’s board. One of his daughters played for Taylor at a prior school. I’m almost certain I am recalling correctly that he spoke highly of her. If she’s good enough for 2pont, she is good enough for me.

Colgate has gone through a succession of coaches in recent years. I suspect some or all of the key players in question were not recruited by Taylor. It’s an unfortunate reality of the college game that prior recruits sometimes have difficulty with subsequent coaches. My guess is that that has played at least some role here.

Now I must emphasize I knew nothing at all about the particulars of this story. It could all be true. Partly true. Largely untrue. I don’t know. Still, very disturbing to me.

There is an occasional poster on this board who, I’ll bet, knows all or almost all about this story. I’d be very interested in what he has to say, although, of course, it is his right to take a pass.

[Dasher]

My point is that we do know key facts. We know how seriously the college took these accusations.

The letter from Nicki Moore, Ph.D., Vice President and Director of Athletics spells it out.
These selected passages speak volumes. I italicized key phrases.

"I have decided we will continue our path forward in close partnership with Coach Taylor as the head coach of this
program.
However, it is clear to all of us, including Coach Taylor, that additional adjustments are
necessary to improve and elevate the program.

To that end, Coach Taylor and I have developed a robust plan to achieve a
decidedly positive shift
for the women’s lacrosse program’s team climate, support, and student-athlete experience.
This plan focuses specifically on strategies to enhance student-athlete wellbeing,
communication and support for women’s lacrosse and for all Colgate varsity programs.
Our objectives are for student-athletes to increasingly experience the sport environment through
supportive guidance, adaptive facilitated learning, and a foundation of positive regard.
Additionally, they will experience enhanced support for the unique opportunities and challenges
common in a demanding academic environment.
Student-athletes will also notice more
frequent participation of the sport administrator in team activities, and an expanded meeting
schedule to enhance communication between student-athletes, coaches and administrators.
Specific adjustments in the women’s lacrosse program leadership and support include:
● The assignment of Deputy Athletics Director and Senior Woman Administrator, Juliana
Smith, as the sport administrator for women’s lacrosse
● The elevation of Jessica Becker to Associate Head Coach
● The assignment of a Faculty Liaison to the program prior to the beginning of the
academic year
● Faculty Athletics Representative, Jason Meyers - Associate Professor of Biology and
Neuroscience - will serve as an advisor to the AD in the execution of this plan.
I want to reassure you that Colgate
Athletics will adjust its policies temporarily to ensure that those who choose not to return to the
program, will retain their athletics scholarship.

[njbill]

No, we don't know all the key facts. We have the attorney's letter and the university's response. We don't have the names of the players involved. We don't have the transcripts of their interviews. We don't have transcripts of the other interviews the school did. We don't have Kathy Taylor's side of the story.

Again, I don't know what happened. You don't know. You are drawing conclusions from the publicly available info which you have every right to do. As someone who litigated cases for almost 40 years, I am unwilling to draw conclusions until I see all of the evidence, or at least a lot of it that tells the other side of the story.

[Dasher]

I appreciate an experienced viewpoint. But the college didn’t dismiss the accusations. They passed judgement. Did they overreact? We don’t know. Are the accusations false or exaggerated? We don’t know. They did guarantee scholarships to players who left the program, and assigned a hall monitor, which implies some degree of culpability.
Check my previous posts, including my original post.
There is a story here that is important, which the lacrosse media for whatever reason, has ignored.
How this was handled IS the story. It won’t be the first or last of allegations by players, led by parents, against coaches.
A good reporter could shed light on this issue that you and I can not.

[njbill]

I agree with everything you said.

To me the fact that they didn't fire Taylor says at least something, maybe a lot. Maybe I am reading too much into that and maybe I'm overly defending my alma mater, but that says to me either that her conduct was not as bad as the attorney's letter suggests or that this was a minority view on the team or that maybe the complaining witnesses had some agendas. Or some combination of the above.

I'm glad Colgate apparently took the allegations very seriously which absolutely was the right thing to do. I'm also glad the school took the proactive steps it did, which seem like good positive things to do regardless of the merits of the underlying matter.

I see at least seven 2024 recruits listed which hopefully is a good sign.

I am trying to find out some inside poop though I'm not sure I'll be successful. If I can, and if it is stuff I can share, I will.

[Dasher]

Vice President and Director of Athletics Nicki Moore moving on to greener pastures.
Hard to think she was pushed out because this seems like an upgrade.
My gut tells me this whole mess motivated her to look around. Coach Taylor, who was hired by Moore, just lost some air cover.
https://colgateathletics.com/news/2022/ ... rnell.aspx

[Nigel]

Occasional poster here. Parent.

Wasn't going to post on this Colgate story but I recently saw one of the athlete ratings of Coach Kathy Taylor on that rating site and thought (sadly), 100% that's my kid writing that.

Sadly I believe the interview summations provided in the law firm's letter are true. While there, my D regularly alluded to the very rough coaching style of Coach Taylor and how much she disliked practices and meetings. This, as I understand it, was pretty much a full team belief. Re injured players, it was supposedly worse. In fact, the handling of injuries between the opinionated coach, the injured player, and the stuck in the middle training staff was the basis for a law firm to be hired in the first place. And those interviews led to other 'issues' being consistently brought up (body type and lifestyle approach) across more girls on the team(s). Without agendas.

Lastly, I would certainly agree that Coach Taylor has lost 'air cover' with the departure of AD Moore. IMO, Moore gave her best Sgt Schultz impersonation and convinced the administration that the changes implemented were enough to put this under the rug.

Two years of girls graduating, too many girls unfortunately quitting the current team over the last three years (some w scholarships intact, some without), and the college taking steps to address Coach Taylor's damaging first couple of years as the #1, will most likely be enough to have this serious matter run out of gas. Hopefully the coaching style changes and the culture of the team improves but I'd expect that the future alumni games will be severely deficient of girls representing the classes of 2020-2022.

[DMac]

That's too bad, it really stinks when you have a coach you don't like or have any respect for, robs you of much of the joy the experience has to offer. Experienced this my Sr of HS, went from a top shelf coach (went on to coach at Hobart where he played) to a useless POS who had no idea what he was doing (hadn't ever played the game, was an embarrassment to watch warm up the GK in his girlie tennis shoes and ankle high white socks).
Colgate's a gorgeous school.

[LaxPundit07]

In this day and age of litigation, outrage, Twitter, everyone has a voice (regardless of IQ)......something is REALLY missing from this story.

Let me be clear: Colgate has ZERO reason to keep Coach Taylor if even 10% of the story is true. Why on earth would they keep her on if all these things were true? Why on earth would they keep her on if 10% of this story was true? The program makes no money for the school. They haven't won anything of note, ever. They are not a national brand. Taylor has no significant history at this level (they aren't standing by Nick Saban or Geno Auriemma). So, what the hell are they doing?

That leads us to only two plausible explanations for how we got here:

1. The vast majority of the player's narrative is down right false. Not out of context. FALSE. And the university investigated and found nothing of note worthy of firing Coach Taylor

OR

2. The athletic department and University Human Resources were born yesterday, can't add 1+1, and are about to take a multi million dollar lawsuit to the chin.

Seriously though, what else could this be? How can we reasonably assume these accusations are true AND that Colgate decided "Nah, they don't warrant a firing." We are missing some key elements on this story.

[lax410]

There’s definitely something up at Colgate. A brief dive into rosters (who returned, who didn’t) and committed players vrs who didn’t end up attending tells that story.

And as someone with a good familiarity with these types of lawsuits, you’d be surprised what happens. You think it’s a world of CYA where everyone does the right thing and if employees misbehave, the organization finds out and they are disciplined or fired, In the real world, it far too often doesn’t work that way.

[PhantomLax99]

In this day and age of litigation, outrage, Twitter, everyone has a voice (regardless of IQ)......something is REALLY missing from this story.

Let me be clear: Colgate has ZERO reason to keep Coach Taylor if even 10% of the story is true. Why on earth would they keep her on if all these things were true? Why on earth would they keep her on if 10% of this story was true? The program makes no money for the school. They haven't won anything of note, ever. They are not a national brand. Taylor has no significant history at this level (they aren't standing by Nick Saban or Geno Auriemma). So, what the hell are they doing?

That leads us to only two plausible explanations for how we got here:

1. The vast majority of the player's narrative is down right false. Not out of context. FALSE. And the university investigated and found nothing of note worthy of firing Coach Taylor

OR

2. The athletic department and University Human Resources were born yesterday, can't add 1+1, and are about to take a multi million dollar lawsuit to the chin.

Seriously though, what else could this be? How can we reasonably assume these accusations are true AND that Colgate decided "Nah, they don't warrant a firing." We are missing some key elements on this story.

If the accusations were false, I would think the athletic department would be less shy about stating that in the press. Not to mention the scholarships they gave to players if they decided to stay at the school would not have been handed out if the investigation failed to yield any truth. That just reeks of hush money IMHO...

Let's use some critical thinking skills here. These kids go to college to play the sport they love and get an education. They have nothing to gain from accusing their coach of such things and everything to lose. I can't personally think of a reason anyone would risk this opportunity unless there is truth to their accusations. I also find it very hard to believe an entire team conspired to make up elaborate accusations to get a coach, who gave them the opportunity to play the sport they love at a top tier university, fired. But for the sake of argument, I could be wrong.

This brings me to my second point. I will agree with you that there is really something missing here, but it's not our place to fill in those gaps. It's plausible that you are correct, as it is I am. It's important for everyone to keep that in mind (including myself) and refrain from damning either side or creating our own new accusations until the facts come out.